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Author Topic: Bad Movies
Mycroft_
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posted 10 May 2003 12:37 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The universe of stupendously horrible motion pictures breaks down into two broad categories: films starring Madonna and films starring everybody else.

In using the term "horrible", I am not referring to generically hideous Martin Lawrence or Ernest movies, which never had any pretensions to quality. No, I am talking about (1) big, bloated, interminable, financially ruinous films such as Heaven's Gate, The Postman and Cleopatra; and (2) relatively inexpensive films starring Madonna, which leave the public's jaws agape, unable to believe that anyone could make such bad movies on such a tiny budget.

What is most remarkable about Madonna is that she persistently succeeds in making ghastly movies that are actually worse than the ones she made before. Madonna's newest film usually stands in relation to her prior work the way Genghis Khan stands in relation to Attila The Hun. Put another way, Russians honestly thought no one could possibly be nastier than Ivan The Terrible. Then along came Joseph Stalin. Filmgoers honestly thought no film could be stupider than Shanghai Surprise. Then along came Who's That Girl?


[ 10 May 2003: Message edited by: Mycroft ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 10 May 2003 12:49 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From the same article:

quote:
Cimino towers over the competition by virtue of having directed the 220-minute Heaven's Gate. The first time I saw the movie in 1980, I felt like I had been buried alive. The second time I saw it, last week, I felt like someone had dug me up, re-embalmed my festering corpse and buried me again.

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sleK
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posted 10 May 2003 03:32 AM      Profile for sleK   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
To make a movie as bad as The Postman or Heaven's Gate, Madonna is going to need help. [...] And she's going to need a cameo by both Roberto Benigni and Bette Midler.

Why the slam against rrrrrrrrRoberto?

I believe a single viewing of Down By Law, with RB and Tom Waits, would redeem whatever injustices Roberto's later films (none of which I have seen) have perpetrated against the author of this article.


From: a chair - in a room - by a door | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
glennB
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posted 10 May 2003 08:39 AM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hollywood = Bad Movies!

Any Hollywood movie will fall into one of the following categories:

ACTION - Movie begins with some token event of injustice - could be personal, political, etc. Audience doesn't need to know any more than who the "good guy" and who the "bad guy" are. Hero is a muscular, gun wielding knight who can only right any situation with his fists and bullets. Usually also an American. Villain will be a foreigner with a funny accent (Middle Easter, Irish, German, etc). Director makes hero look really brave, whether its Mel Gibson, or Kevin Costner. Insert romantic sub-plot, token ethnic-minority side-kick and (at least) one bedroom scene.

Romantic Drama - Either a male or female character has a problem. It can be medical, family, work-related, or just plain "I am not happy". Then the character falls in love. Some obstacle stops couple from getting together. That's the first 20 minutes of the movie. The rest of the movie is the couple struggling to get together. When they finally do, love solves everyones problems. (except mine since I have vomitted 14 times during the movie).

Romantic Comedy - See the previous entry. Throw in Robin Williams, Martin Lawrence or one of the newer comedians. Their nvolved in some trivial scheme. Granted, individual sketches in the movie are usually quite funny & entertaining. Rest of the movie SUCKS. In fact, it usually doesn't even hold together logically.

That pretty much captures it. There are outstanding ones that break the mold but they usually don't do well at the box-office. SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION comes to mind, which was amazing. But it tanked at the box-office. Was VERY successful in video-stores, though.


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 12 May 2003 02:48 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What about "Water World"?


Costner's message films have all the art and subtlty of a wasp sting in the eye.

quote:
SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION comes to mind, which was amazing. But it tanked at the box-office. Was VERY successful in video-stores, though.

It's interesting to look at what movies get rented more often than others, and see how they stack up against the box office returns.

Some suspect it's the influence of critics. I think sometimes it has to do with what other movies are being released at about the same time.

I remember "The Cell" being almost universally panned by critics, yet it was the #1 renter for weeks after its release.

And, I really liked that one, too.


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DrConway
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posted 12 May 2003 03:22 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If you want a bad freakin' movie, try The Philadelphia Experiment 2.

I watched that movie, and after it, I was utterly confused. There was no recognizable plot, and far too much stuff seemed to have been thrown in for the "we think it's cool" factor instead of whether or not it added anything to the movie.

I think the runner-up to that would have to be Hackers, for its sheer towering technical incompetence.

"Hey check it out guys, it has a TWENTY EIGHT POINT EIGHT BEE PEE ESS MODEM!"

That just made me want to strangle whoever wrote that script.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
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posted 12 May 2003 12:15 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought 'Shawshank Redemption' was a piece of crap. Cardboard cut-out characters, manipulative plot... and nobody noticed that the central character had a huge hole in the wall behind his girly pinup?----PUH-LEEZE!
From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 12:54 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, it was so much less believable than, say, Die Hard 2, for example...
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Willowdale Wizard
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posted 12 May 2003 01:01 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
how about really bad films made by directors that went on to better things,

like james cameron's piranha II: the spawning

quote:
At Club Elysium, a posh resort somewhere in the Caribbean, a batch of gene-spliced piranhas are ravenously feeding on tourists. That's pretty much the plot it in a nutshell, and most of the film is spent showing an array of stock characters getting gnawed on by hungry, winged fish. Oh yeah, they can fly, too.


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ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 01:10 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nothing wrong with Heavens Gate. A fine ambitious film, with some breath-taking sequences and one the greatest screen villains ever, Christopher Walken's bizarre. sadistic Ranger character. Right up there with Missouri Breaks for great anti-westerns in my books. Compares favourably to Gangs of New York. Released at the exact wrong time is all... comparisons to The Postman are WAY off.
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Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 01:15 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Heaven's Gate went wrong on soooo many fronts. It's the textbook example of why one never gives the director too much leeway.
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ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 01:27 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Spoken like a true producer.
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glennB
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posted 12 May 2003 01:31 PM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
MB:
quote:
thought 'Shawshank Redemption' was a piece of crap. Cardboard cut-out characters, manipulative plot... and nobody noticed that the central character had a huge hole in the wall behind his girly pinup?----PUH-LEEZE!

The exact reason why this movie shines is because it is NOT a cardboard cutout. Not just a "romantic-drama", or a "romantic-comedy", or an "action".

Not that Ebert is a movie god or anything, but the man DID win a Pulitzer for his reviews (has anyone else ever done that?). This isn't just one of his reviews, this is why he thinks that this is one of the top 100 movies of all time: If you've seen the movie, I think it 'splains a lot.

Review


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Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 01:33 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Spoken like a true producer.

Well, considering that Heaven's Gate sank a production company and ruined some careers (at the very least, created some serious professional setbacks), I don't think you need to be a producer to see the illogic in letting an egotist run you several million over budget when he doesn't have to pony any of it up.

Seriously. Any filmmaker should look at the making of Heaven's Gate as a textbook example of how NOT to make a film. That is, if you want to make more than one...

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: Zoot Capri ]


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Michael Hardner
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posted 12 May 2003 01:55 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Noticed this thread. I have seen a LOT of bad movies, including the famously bad ones...

Night Train to Mundo Fine (also known as Red Zone Cuba) is the worst. Dull, bad acting, zero production values, absence of any drama, a story that can't be followed even if you concentrate - it will literally give you a headache to watch it.

It's about a group of mercenaries who go to Cuba to help liberate it. They get captured, then escape back to the US where they engage in criminal activity until they're finally shot down. Coleman Francis, the director also stars.


The "Train" of the title appears only in the movie for about 10 seconds and seems to have nothing to do with the story, with no explanation.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0060753

BTW - check out imdb.com's bottom 100 for a list of bad movies. Night Train hasn't made the list yet because it doesn't have the minimum votes required, but it's tied with Manos for the worst.

I've seen Manos, too. It's unbelievably awful, but still better than Night Train.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 01:56 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
All valid business reasons to dismiss the film, way over budget, insane, costly attention to detail, a Kubrickian tendency to 100s of takes, the questionable wisdom of allowing a director to edit his own film, etc etc leading all the way back to "Why did UA agree to such a huge budget in the first place?".

I just object to the facile conflation of box office failure with artistic failure. Same thing happened to Malick's Thin Red Line, and i object every time that is disparaged for not being "Saving Private Ryan". Malick's film is by far the greater of the two in every way but box office.

Far better textbook "how not to make a film" IMO is Last Action Hero, which nearly bankrupted Sony. It has the additional bonus educational value of being a truly utterly worthless piece of shit, unlike H's G.


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Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 02:16 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"Why did UA agree to such a huge budget in the first place?".

Ummmmmm.... They didn't, actually. And it should have been snatched from the director's hands at an early date and given him a good hard whack upside the head. Started with a big budget, yes. But by the time they found out (this is not just the director's fault, the producer wasn't doing his job, either) just how overbudget they were getting, UA decided that the only way out was to throw more money at it in a blind gamble to recoup on box office in order to save the company. (Granted, this is a brief distillation of events... I've got a book on it that I'll pull off the shelf later for the title.)

quote:
I just object to the facile conflation of box office failure with artistic failure.

Where did I equate the two? I don't, btw. However, I also have this really strange opinion that when you want to make art, and there are constraints, like budget, you work within them. That, or you don't get to make any more art.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
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posted 12 May 2003 02:23 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The exact reason why this movie shines is because it is NOT a cardboard cutout. Not just a "romantic-drama", or a "romantic-comedy", or an "action".

Not that Ebert is a movie god or anything, but the man DID win a Pulitzer for his reviews (has anyone else ever done that?). This isn't just one of his reviews, this is why he thinks that this is one of the top 100 movies of all time: If you've seen the movie, I think it 'splains a lot.

Review



This is what I enjoy about discussing movies--it's so darn subjective. One man's crap is another's treasure. Maybe I was a bit hard on 'Shawshank'--it's certainly a finely crafted film and nowhere near one of the worst movies ever made. What I meant was that I am sick of the manipulation that movie-goers receive at the hands of mainstream Hollywood movies. We're told to 'cry here' and 'feel empathy there', or we're overwhelmed with special effects. It sometimes makes for a pre-fab experience.

When it comes to great movies, try to top Renoir's "Grande Illusion"---brilliant on so many levels.


From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 12 May 2003 02:54 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What I meant was that I am sick of the manipulation that movie-goers receive at the hands of mainstream Hollywood movies.

Yes, and Shawshank is an offender in this category even though it has a lot to offer, in the whole.

I just saw a documentary at Hot Docs about the Dogme 95 movement. Many European directors are producing exciting results from letting go of the manipulation, and allowing the actors create in the moment.

Films like cinema verité, the French new wave and what have you are so much more exciting than almost anything out of the Americas - including most "indie" projects.


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ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 02:58 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Final Cut, great book, perhaps a bit hard on old Mike though. Year of the Dragon was a horrible horrible horrible mess, so maybe it IS better that Cimino was eventually stopped.

I dunno, perhaps I misunderstood, but "how not to make a film" sounded pretty much like a condemnation of the film on all levels, including artistic. I don't think that's justified. Aside from its cost, I think the film deserves credit for attempting many laudable things with the western genre, and acheiving a great many of them. I would compare it favourably to Barry Lyndon. Claude Lelouche made a beautiful film called Another Man Another Chance that H's G also shares some attributes with.

It wasn't the first film to go way over budget, and it won't be the last. From Von Stroheim to Terence Malick, there is a long, august tradition of blowing insane amounts of money on ambitious films, and how huge the cost over-run eventually was has little bearing on the worth of the film. Hell, Spielberg has a reputation for bringing all his films (except the staggeringly awful 1941) in under budget and on schedule, and they are all pretty much useless pieces of crap. Except Jaws. And Duel. Jesus, I just remembered Hook. Shudder.

What a shame it would've been if the disatrous financial (and artistic) failure of Pirates had kept Polanski from making the Pianist.


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Rebecca West
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posted 12 May 2003 02:58 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thoroughly enjoyed Heaven's Gate, though I can appreciate why, at the time it was released, it tanked. The following, with some notable exceptions, are invariable nose-holders:

Romantic Comedies
Movies with Madonna in them
Movies with Keanu Reeves in them
Movies with Julia Roberts in them (see Romantic Comedies)
Sequels
Anything that sports "from the makers of Anaconda" in its marketing material
Movies with Kevin Costner in them
Movies with Vin Diesel in anything but a supporting role

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 03:09 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I would compare it favourably to Barry Lyndon.

Yeah, but pretty much any big-budget epic that didn't put me to sleep I'd compare favourably to Barry Lyndon. I found that movie to be right up there with, say, Doctor Zhivago for sheer airless tedium. Part of the problem, I'd say, was the casting of Ryan O'Neal -- surely the Kevin Costner of his day, if you want a completely affectless cipher as a leading man.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 03:21 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'd call him the Tom Cruise of his day. Or Kirk Douglas. But I enjoyed Eyes Wide Shut and Spartacus as well.

Somehow I've managed to avoid seeing Dr Zhivago. Gone with the Wind is my personal Waterloo. Just. Can't. Get. Through. Boring. Movie.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 03:26 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Dr. Zhivago is notable for the (taller, snowier) Canadian Rockies standing in for the Ural mountains. And for Alec Guiness.

About Gone With the Wind: agreed.

A movie that I would rate highly on the Most Cringingly Awful Movies of All Time list would be The Sound of Music.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 03:46 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A three hour + musical about Nazis and nuns. Ooh goody. Count me in.

On a related note, although mercifully without music...
Shining Through with Melanie Griffith si about the worst WWII flick I ever saw.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 12 May 2003 03:47 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I liked Barry Lyndon, although I maybe had academic reasons for paying attention. The soundtrack is wonderful. The intermittent tableaux are breathtaking. I agree about O'Neal, though.

But 'lance, you mean you have not gone to the revival dressed up as a brown paper package tied up with string, or something?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 03:53 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But 'lance, you mean you have not gone to the revival dressed up as a brown paper package tied up with string, or something?

For Christmas a couple of years ago, skdadl, the Divine Ms M bought me -- us -- tickets to some upcoming theatre events at the Vogue in Vancouver.

One was The Vagina Monologues, which I found intermittently funny. Another, which we ended up missing, was titled something like The Male Intellect -- An Oxymoron? I got the gist from the little snippets and bits of interview CBC Radio ran.

But the third... oh, the third. The third was Sing-Along-A-Sound-of-Music, known to the cognoscenti, apparently, as SALASOM.

She later admitted that this was somewhat in the spirit of Fred Flintstone buying Wilma a bowling ball for Christmas. In fact, she later apologized. Completely unprompted.

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 03:56 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Final Cut, great book...

Yes, that's the one.

It's an interesting debate, whether directors should be "auteurs" or not. You don't need to be fiscally irresponsible to make an artful movie. I really think that directors need to be accountable, and I think producers are often discounted when it comes to the artistic and creative elements of a film. I've certainly been directly involved in the creative in every film I've ever produced.

(Personal opinion of Zoot: There's no such thing as an auteur, except in the case of such filmmakers as Stan Brakhage and other extreme experimentalists. Film is, by nature, a collaborative medium. Every finger in the pie has an influence on the final product.)

quote:
A movie that I would rate highly on the Most Cringingly Awful Movies of All Time list would be The Sound of Music.

Oh, I agree. It's also my SIL's favourite movie. We watched it twice the week we spent at her place in Montreal...


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 04:00 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Gawd, Zoot. You have my profound sympathy. The hours must have flown by like days.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 04:06 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Friend of mine™ had a GF who bought a laserdisc player (this was back in the early 90s) specifically because she kept wearing out her vhs copies of Sound Of Music due to the sad fact that she watched it AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK! SOMETIMES TWICE!

She ended up getting him to buy her a house and then she dumped him. I think he is well enough out of it, frankly.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 04:07 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The worst part is when you're walking along, minding your own business, and realize you are humming "16 going on 17"...
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 04:10 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You had to go and do that, didn't you. Implant that in my head. Sadist!

Take this: "To you and you and you and you and you-ou"

I agree with this 100%, BTW:

quote:
I think producers are often discounted when it comes to the artistic and creative elements of a film.

I wasn't denigrating you with my producer comment.

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: ronb ]


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 12 May 2003 04:12 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Small and white, clean and bright, you look happy to meeeeeet meeee
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 04:12 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
... OK, at least three of us. I think, to paraphrase Arlo Guthrie, this qualifies as a movement.

Right, then. Shall we picket the next showings of SALASOM? Or find something rather more creative?


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 12 May 2003 04:14 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Natural Born Killers

Pretentious, boring slop. We were getting up to leave at one point, but the damned thing wouldn't die! It went on almost a full hour beyond that point! (grumble)If we hadn't shelled out $5.50 (mutter mutter)...

A an obvious, simplistic child's attempt to critique the commodification of violence. Michael Haneke shows what the result is when a master takes on the task in Funny Games.

True, I hated Platoon, that cliched good vs. evil Vietnam cartoon, was bored by the Doors and JFK, but Salvador and Talk Radio were OK...

Still, I've learned that if it comes from Oliver Stone, I'm probably gonna feel like I've wasted some irreplaceable moments of a finite and rapidly-passing lifetime...

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: Sisyphus ]


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 04:16 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You had to go and do that, didn't you. Implant that in my head. Sadist!

Serves you right for disagreeing with me on Heaven's Gate!


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 04:18 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Still, I've learned that if it comes from Oliver Stone, I'm probably gonna feel like I've wasted some irreplaceable moments of a finite and rapidly-passing lifetime...

Sisyphus! Finally, someone who agrees with me on Oliver Stone! (although I thought Platoon was okay, if a bit simplistic... But I really like Willem Dafoe.)

Edited to add: I have no compunction about getting up and walking out of a bad movie anymore. The last one I walked out on was The Ring. It was awful, truly awful.

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: Zoot Capri ]


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 12 May 2003 04:30 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree about Wilhelm DaFoe, I'm a Val Kilmer fan through and through, Anthony Hopkins was mesmerizing in Nixon (well, for the first two hours), but some things just can't be saved .
From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 12 May 2003 04:30 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought 'Water World' was very funny.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 04:30 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think Oliver Stone is visually inventive but unfortunately kinda stoopid. Natural Born Killers was a whole series of crackerjack sequences in service of the lamest theme imaginable. The epilog was literally an insult to the intelligence.

But I really liked JFK. The different film stocks, the attention to detail, Joe Pesci... I know I know, Kevin Costner. But he was great in Silverado...


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'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 04:49 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There are movies where Kevin Costner doesn't suck. Bull Durham springs to mind. I can even think of one movie where Keanu Reeves was well-cast, or perhaps well-directed, namely My Own Private Idaho.

As for Silverado, though it was a long time ago I saw it, I can recall being disappointed -- not by Costner, but by the failure to wring more laughs out of what by now (or then) is (was) a basically ridiculous genre. (Also at points it seemed to have been edited just slightly past coherence). John Cleese's cameo as the sherriff was great, though.

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 12 May 2003 04:50 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't hate Kevin Costner, either. He's a serviceable white-bread all-american type, just barely able to play a tough guy... Silverado was great and KC was OK in it. I didn't mind him in No Way Out or even in A Perfect World which most people I know hated, but I have affection for. I haven't seen Waterworld and somehow I was spared a trip to the Sound of Music by some quirk of fate, cause I vaguely remember there was a paddy-wagon filled with hapless eight-year-olds ready to take me as well to the University theatre in Toronto, where I saw Empire Strikes Back, which I recall as the most visually impressive movie experience of my life.

"Doe, a deer, a female deer. Ray, a drop of golden sun..." BWAAAHAHAHA!

Edited to add: Brain Denehy seemed to be having such a good time in Silverado, I found it infectious and Cleese's "Today my jurisdiction ends here." was a side-splitter. I really enjoyed the fluff of Tin Cup, particularly considering that particularly odorific sub-genre of the Sports Movie, the * * Golf movie (shudder). Bull Durham was a classic.

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: Sisyphus ]


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 12 May 2003 04:55 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm sure it's wrong to call it a bad movie, but I simply cannot stand Vertigo. I mean, I really can't stand it. Don't make me.
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ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:03 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Fine. Be that way.

Take this:

"Summer lovin', happened so fast..."


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'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 05:03 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Vertigo is a weird picture, all right, and very far from being one of my favourite Hitchcock movies. His endings tend to make no sense whatsoever (I mean what's with Strangers on a Train, and the amazing accelerating merry-go-round??), and Vertigo is a perfect example. Plus those animated sequences, which might have been avant-garde when they were made, but to which time has not been kind.

Edited to add:

ronb, by the authority vested in me by no person whatsoever, I command thee to depart this thread, forthwith. Nevermore shalt thy face be seen here, discussing cinema. Go at once! Get thee hence! Stand not on the order of thy going, but go!

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:09 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Couldn't agree more. Rear Window and Vertigo were re-released - gloriously restored - back in the mid 80s, and I was SORELY disappointed by the far more famous Vertigo which I thought was melodramatic, dull, unconconvincing rubbish and was AMAZED by Rear Window which remains my favourite Hitchcock film. The thought of that first shot of Grace Kelly in Rear Window still raises my blood pressure lo these many years later.

edited to add: summer lovin' was for sisyphus BTW...

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: ronb ]


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Michael Hardner
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posted 12 May 2003 05:09 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Isn't "Spellbound" the one with the animation ?
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Zeratul
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posted 12 May 2003 05:09 PM      Profile for Zeratul     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jeepers Creepers
Angel Eyes
Titanic
Anything with Jennifer Lopez
Anything with Mariah Carey
Glitter

From: Right behind you, with a big knife | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 12 May 2003 05:09 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, except: you guys give me the title (having a senior moment here) -- but the Freudian dream sequences in the one where Ingrid Bergman is a psychiatrist: on the one hand, those are so terribly dated, and yet they are still quite beautiful in a way -- abstract expressionist, perhaps one would call them. Their datedness (in psych terms) does not bother me, I guess because I think they work for the movie.

Maybe I find Kim Novak just a little too lush, and Hitchcock's focus on her beyond creepy.

That damn movie is on TV all the time. Why that one?


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skdadl
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posted 12 May 2003 05:13 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes! Spellbound. Now, y'see, I like Spellbound. Perhaps because Bergman is less, um, well, sexy?

Rear Window is priceless, isn't it? But that's because it's so funny. He let her have more fun in that movie than any other, I think, although Thief is charming as well.


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ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:15 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I liked Out Of Sight quite a bit. That had JLo in it, before we all knew what hellacious awfulness was in store.
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ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:19 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ingrid Bergman not sexy?!? Hunh?
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skdadl
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posted 12 May 2003 05:21 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I may be going through a phase, ronb.
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'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 05:23 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So back to the Joe Queenan article for a minute... at some point he mentions The Deer Hunter. Not an absolutely awful movie, but -- perhaps unintentionally -- partly responsible for fuelling the "POW/MIA" hysteria of the 80s in the US. In fact the author of a book called "MIA: Mythmaking In America," all about that silly craze, pointed out that a shot from that movie -- a man in silhouette, with bowed head, barbed wire and guard tower in view -- became the central image of that black-and-white "POW/MIA" flag you used to see so much of.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 12 May 2003 05:25 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Rear Window had that great premise, and that set too.

I still haven't seen Spellbound but I know that it had animated sequences designed by Dali.

For Torontophiles, "Red Dawn" a bad 80s right-wing scare flick about Cuba and Russian invading the US is coming to Festival cinemas soon.

The opening scene actually has a sequence where the camera pans from one of those NRA "cold dead hand" bumper stickers to a Russian pulling the gun out of somebody's cold, dead hand.

Not subtle.


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ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:29 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Wolverines!" Red Dawn had the distinction of being the most violent film of all time - most on-screen deaths-per-second I believe - for quite awhile. A truly awful film. Cult classic awful.


Zardoz anyone?


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Mandos
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posted 12 May 2003 05:37 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't understand what everyone has against Water World. My great-aunt, who barely speaks a word of English and is hardly an SF fan, really loved the movie. There are far worse movies than Water World. Such as Attack of the Clooooooones!


I have not yet seen The Postman. It is based on a book by one of my favorite authors, David Brin, though that's one of the two of his novels I have not read. It can't be as bad as people say it is...


Oh, and "...thoooose maaagic chaaaanges..."


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:40 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree with your great-aunt. Attack of the Clones was indeed worse than Waterworld. And the two of them combined aren't even a tenth as bad as the interminable Phantom Menace.
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Mandos
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posted 12 May 2003 05:43 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought that Attach of the Clooooooooones was far worse than the Phantom Menace, actually.
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Wankity
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posted 12 May 2003 05:44 PM      Profile for Wankity        Edit/Delete Post
Moulin Rouge plays on a non-stop loop in Hell, I hear.

Brutal.

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: Wankity ]


From: Saskabush | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 12 May 2003 05:46 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No, Oklahoma plays non-stop in Hell.

I thought Moulin Rouge was rather good, for a musical.

But then, most musicals are pretty bad. Except for The Rocky Horror Picture Show.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
...and Singin' in the Rain.
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Wankity
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posted 12 May 2003 05:49 PM      Profile for Wankity        Edit/Delete Post
True, I'm severely biased against musicals.

How about this, if your NOT a fan of musicals Moulin Rouge is the soundtrack and visuals of your own personal Hell.


From: Saskabush | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 12 May 2003 05:50 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The corn is as high as an elephant's eye / An' it looks like it's reachin' right up to the skyyyyyy
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scrabble
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posted 12 May 2003 05:50 PM      Profile for scrabble     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Le pacte des loups!

A terrific roll-in-the-aisles, laugh-yourself-into-an-aneurism non-stop whacko event. I've never thrown so much popcorn during one film! (And I once reviewed 40 films during one film fest!)


From: dappled shade in the forest | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 12 May 2003 05:54 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Right. that does it.

"Day by day, Day by day

Oh Dear Lord Three things I pray

To see thee more clearly

Love thee more dearly

Follow thee more nearly

Day by day, Day by day, Day by day

Day by day'

Edited to add. Sheepishly. I liked Brotherhood of the Wolf. I like kung fu Iroquois movies.

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: ronb ]


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oldgoat
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posted 12 May 2003 06:00 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Children of the Living Dead." Get a few friends together, stock up on whatever your favourite substance is for giving you a buzz, and rent this movie. It ranks up there with "Plan 9 From Outer Space". (except the latter had better continuity)
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
iworm
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posted 12 May 2003 06:02 PM      Profile for iworm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I have not yet seen The Postman. It is based on a book by one of my favorite authors, David Brin, though that's one of the two of his novels I have not read. It can't be as bad as people say it is...

The Postman is extra special bad. I'm a big David Brin fan, too. Never read this book, though, but I'm convinced the adaptation must have been poor.

The Postman is so bad that there are times you tell yourself, "this is as bad as anything can possibly get".... then it actually gets worse!

I suppose in that sense it's a metaphysical marvel, constantly disproving its own self-generated assumptions about the absolutism of badness.

BTW, David Brin discusses The Postman's adaptation on his website.


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Sisyphus
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posted 12 May 2003 06:04 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't hate muscials, but I only lasted 15 minutes when they applied to my eyes and ears... Evita with Madonna and Banderas before I confessed. I admit it, it broke me *sob!*, I even said I'd be Argentina and cry...
From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 12 May 2003 06:31 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sisyphus:
Natural Born Killers

We're in a minority here.

Everybody I talk to fucking raves about Natural Born Killers like it was the embodiment of the second coming of Jesus Christ. I managed to get to see it for free and I hated it. It was so overdone and overblown that the point being made (about the excessive portrayals of violence in the media, etc) was bludgeoned home multiple times in the movie.

I, for one, did not appreciate having a movie director decide I was too stupid to see his "message" unless it was repeatedly applied with a sledgehammer.

(and I just realized I had to edit this for a glaringly simple spelling mistake)

[ 12 May 2003: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 12 May 2003 06:41 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I, for one, did not appreciate having a movie director decide I was too stupid too see his "message" unless it was repeatedly applied with a sledgehammer.

I agree with your assessment of Natural Born Killers.

This is the problem with north American movies and even Indie movies - they assume that the audience is expansively stupid.

I can hardly stand any of them anymore - except for the hilarious Coen Brothers.


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clersal
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posted 12 May 2003 06:46 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ANYTHING WITH DORIS DAY.
From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 12 May 2003 07:38 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I forgot to mention (and, oh, it is so forgettable) I made the mistake of seeing Bulletproof Monk the other day, and, oh, man is it bad. It shames the genre of Kung Fu movies so much, the scriptwriter needs to shave his/her head and go to Tibet and do penance in a monestary for the next 300 years, preferably under siege by Nazis with the most awful hairs-do you can imagine.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 12 May 2003 07:42 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, and, iworm, you sure that's Brin's site? It thought it was www.kithrup.com or something. And yes, I did read his take on it...I thought he said it wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. Anyway, it appears that he has optioned Glory Season for a movie...but I doubt it would ever get made. And really, it's not the best one for making into a movie, I thought. It's very much a theme story that is simply too complex for a movie. I'd rather see Startide Rising as a movie...not that would be an unforgettable blockbuster, if done right. Talking space dolphins probably aren't that hard to do animated either.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
scrabble
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posted 12 May 2003 08:54 PM      Profile for scrabble     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I liked Brotherhood of the Wolf.

Me too, honey. Viiincent Cassel...

Heybut didn't 'lance tell you to leave, already, you evil critter?

Speaking of drool-worthy men, the delicious Alan Rickman stars in an excruciatingly painful film: Mesmer.
Dark Harbor (sic) is even worse. Made me want to go drown my sorrows in a vat of acid-laced blue Jello®. Alan - WHAT HAPPENED!?


From: dappled shade in the forest | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 12 May 2003 09:40 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
There are movies where Kevin Costner doesn't suck. Bull Durham springs to mind.

Yabbut "Bull Durham" sucked. I don't know why they built that sappy plot around baseball. Costner was good (heck, everybody was good) in "The Untouchables".

I wasn't impressed by "Reservoir Dogs," which I thought was nothing but an excuse to show gratuitous violence.

"Que sera sera, whatever will be, will be..."


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 10:08 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Yabbut "Bull Durham" sucked. I don't know why they built that sappy plot around baseball.

Sah? Sah, the insult to his taste and discernment a man can take in stride, but you, Sah, have impugned the good name of Miss Susan Sarandon, Sah! I trust we can settle this like gentlemen. My seconds will meet your seconds to discuss your choice of weapons, time and place. Until then, Sah, I bid you a very Good Day!

(turns back ostentatiously)


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 12 May 2003 10:22 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just like a southern gent to take a knife to a gunfight....
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'lance
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posted 12 May 2003 10:47 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

On The Untouchables: agreed.

On Bull Durham: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Sah.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Vee
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posted 12 May 2003 11:15 PM      Profile for Vee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My votes are for "Vanilla Sky" and the other one that Tom Cruise made in that same weird vein. I can not remember the title. I may be blocking it out because the movie was so painful that I turned it off after the first 1/3. "Darkness Falls" and "Ghost Ship" are not even not even worth picking up to read the summary at the video store. Those are my most recent bad movie experiences.
From: East Coast | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 13 May 2003 12:09 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A good bad film I saw about twenty years ago -- just after its release, in fact, because the Bloor Cinema apparently bought a copy and ran it for three weeks or something -- was Liquid Sky. Quite an oddity, supposedly made by complete amateurs, and it showed. They were so inept as filmmakers that they could get the audience laughing with a simple pan shot. Nonetheless the thing has something to recommend it. Watch it on a double bill with Plan Nine from Outer Space, say, because in spite of its artistic/bohemenian pretensions, attempts to Say Something Profound (about heroin, sex, performance art, alien visitations, whatever), Liquid Sky is almost in the same league.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tyler S
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posted 13 May 2003 01:13 AM      Profile for Tyler S     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Enough bad movie bashing, there are too many bad movies to list and most of them are very forgetable.

Some of my favorite movies include:

- The Big Lebowski (the Nihilists made me laugh)
- Thunderheart (Graham Greene is a great actor)
- The Shawshank Redemption
- Pulp Fiction

- And just about every war movie (not action movie, there is a difference) which includes:
-A Bridge too Far
-Saving Private Ryan
-The Band of Brothers series
-The Thin Red Line (it did have it's moments)
And last but not least:
-Full Metal Jacket.

Tyler


From: Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 13 May 2003 02:36 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I finally watched "Life is Beautiful" today.

I laughed.

I cried.

What a magnificent film.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 13 May 2003 02:47 AM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The thought just occurred to me that the worst films I have seen, or at least the highest concentration thereof, are marketed for kids.

The Tigger Movie, for example, was just plain stinky. Nothing at all like Milne's Pooh, or even Walt's version of Milne's Pooh. Dreck!

We really have to work hard to make sure the wee grils aren't watching crap...


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 13 May 2003 03:06 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's interesting to read what movies people think are bad.

I'm not terribly discerning, compared to most of you.

I pretty much surrender myself to a movie. I mean, if a film maker can't harness my willing suspension of disbelief, they've really done something wrong.

I enjoyed "Ghost Ship" and to a lesser degree, "Darkness Falls" and "The Ring". I guess because it's horror, I don't expect as much from them. So, continuity problems have to be real bad (13 Ghosts) before I dismiss them.

I sort of sit there like a kid, and say "tell me a story."

I caught a bit of Barry Lyndon a while ago, and really liked Kubric's cinematography-- as I do all his movies. But yes....Ryan O'Neil?

"One Hour Photo" struck me as "Kubricesque" in the way it was filmed. There's some pretty neat shots and use of colour in that movie.

Liked Bull Durham and the Untouchables-- as long as one doesn't link movie with the real events. As a depiction of the battle between Eliot Ness and Al Capone and Frank Nitty, the movie violates history, even by Hollywood standards.

Worst War movie ever? Kelly's Heroes-- and I'm an Eastwood fan.

I haven't seen "Natural Born Killers."

At first I was okay with the remake of "The Three Feathers", but over time I kinda got more pissed off about how they kind of bastardized the original.

The original was soooooooo much better.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 13 May 2003 10:00 AM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ZARDOZ RULEZ!!

Ahem. So much for bridled enthusiasm.

One of my very most favourite bad movies is an offering called Ravenous. It's so seriously bad, it's gut-wrenching, side-splitting funny. I'm sure much of it is tongue-in-cheek, and its sense of the absurd is quite delightful. I mean, cannibalism conveys superhuman strength to soldiers in a 19th century frontier outpost?

A treasure of awfulness.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 13 May 2003 10:51 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Go rent Knights. It's a future dystopia movie where cyborgs have taken over the earth and human beings have to run around in tribes wearing skimpy clothes across the desert landscape. It stars the five-time women's kickboxing world champion. Naturally, there is no electricity, so how do the cyborgs power themselves? HUMAN BLOOD! It stars the five-time women's kickboxing world champion. The five-time women's kickboxing world champion has to help a Good Cyborg defeat the Evil Blood-drinking Cyborgs who treat human being like cattle. But the Good Cyborg has only one year of nucular power left. Naturally, the five-time women's kickboxing world champion is a little in love with him.

Did I mention that it stars the five-time women's kickboxing world champion?


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 13 May 2003 10:58 AM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The five-time women's world kickboxing champion!!???

Wow, sounds like it'll blow The Phantom Menace right out of the water. Why didn't Lucas get that casting director? He might have salvaged something in the awfulness that was PM.


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 13 May 2003 11:05 AM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm still convinced that PM was way better than AotC. I mean, this is AotC:

Anakin: I'm psycho. I murdered an entire village of men, women, and children in a fit of pique.
Amygdala (yes, yes, I know): Aww. Poor boy. Have some milk and cookies.
Anakin: But...I'm psycho, right?
Amygdala: Sexy psycho!


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 13 May 2003 12:45 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
PM:

Queen Amadala (in monotone): Senator Palpatine, the legion of allied trading partners from the galaxy bingbong is arrayed in an effort to defeat us. Our strategic alliance with the pitoniian delegation is already at the breaking point and their ships might atack us in about thirty years if we don't stroll aimlessly through digitally created set after digitally created set and drone drone drone drone drone drone..."

Punctuted by the least exciting race sequence ever devised. Who will win? Gee, I wonder. Who else is racing? No idea, not a millisecond was spent on any of their backstory.

Who was the hero of PM? Who was the villain? Rule of thumb: figure that out FIRST before you attempt to make a popcorn muncher....


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 13 May 2003 12:58 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Punctuted by the least exciting race sequence ever devised. Who will win? Gee, I wonder.

it's like that for the entire two movies. anakin won't die. kenobi won't die. yoda won't die. so, when they get in trouble, no worries. still, christopher lee flying in mid-air was worth a laugh or two.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 13 May 2003 01:03 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Christopher Lee, as Saruman, and Ian McKellan as Gandalf were practically the only two aspects of the first Lord of the Rings movie I liked. (I didn't see the second and won't see the third).

You may set your flamethrowers to "crisp," but...

For my money the "original" Star Wars trilogy constitute bad movies. Not awful ones, mind you -- The Empire Strikes Back in particular has something to recommend it. Movies for kids, let's say, which is why I've stayed away from the "prequels" in a drove of one.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 13 May 2003 01:13 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Star Wars owns.

Now if you want to talk about an overrated piece of crap, how about the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Yawn.

Fellowship bored me to tears. I got dragged back to see TTT and actually fell asleep halfway through. Now I hear the rough cut for Return of the King comes in at just over 4 hours. Yikes!

Too many hobbits. No space-ships or ray-guns. Nuff said.

And I'm astounded that a thread on bad movies has gone past 90 posts and no one has mentioned the most overrated movie in the whole history of history - Citizen Kane?

[ 13 May 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 13 May 2003 01:16 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Star Wars - good/bad. Empire - earnest/bad. Jedi - very bad. I & II - beneath contempt.

Curious. You're the first openly LOTR-negative person I've run accross. Is this just the product of your naturally contrary nature? Please don't be one of those insane "Where the hell was Tom Bombadil?" sticklers...


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 13 May 2003 01:20 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
No space-ships or ray-guns. Nuff said.

maybe that's what bull durham needed.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 13 May 2003 01:21 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Curious. You're the first openly LOTR-negative person I've run accross. Is this just the product of your naturally contrary nature?

You talking to JimmyBrogan, or me, ronb? If me -- good grief, no. About Tom Bombadil, that is. By no means am I a purist, though I read and re-read Lord of the Rings as a teenager, and for some time thereafter.

No, it was about 40 minutes or so into Fellowship of the Ring that I realized -- I simply don't care about this "epic" anymore. It's partly, I suppose, a case of familiarity breeding contempt. Partly also it's got something to do with gradually and grudgingly coming to agree with Edmund Wilson's "Ooo, those Awful Orcs" massacree of 1956 or thereabouts, which rasmus_raven has posted links to and discussed on this board. Contrarian? Sure!

[Edited to re-word some very clunky sentences]

[ 13 May 2003: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 13 May 2003 01:21 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
When it comes to great movies, try to top Renoir's "Grande Illusion"---brilliant on so many levels.
Yeah, sure; if you like escapist pictures.

Someone mentioned "Kelly's Heroes". Agreed. The worst war film ever made. That Donald Sutherland hippy/tank commander character was just...DUMB.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 13 May 2003 01:25 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wizard:


Lots of people don't like LOTR


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
rob.leblanc
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posted 13 May 2003 01:31 PM      Profile for rob.leblanc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I saw a reeeally bad movie called "The Driver". a bad 1970's/1980's movie starring the wonderful Ryan O'Neil *ugh...* One of the worst movies I've ever seen. Hmmm....trying to think of some other bad films. I know I've seen a lot....
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Mandos
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posted 13 May 2003 01:40 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That's an amusing LotR criticism/parody site, I have to say. Heh. I did like the movies, though. I went into it with a "It's Hollywood, they'll massacre it." When they didn't massacre it, I was impressed. I believe that Liv Tyler is superfluous, however.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 13 May 2003 01:40 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
funny site, jimmy.

quote:
5. In the massive Mt. Doom battle scene at the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring, a DVD pause reveals at least half a dozen of the 50,000 Orc Warrior extras are wearing modern tennis shoes.

22. Legolas shoots arrow after arrow at his enemies, and yet the number of arrows in his quiver never decreases. I guess elves have glands on their back that secrete arrows.

23. The heroes are shown eating again and again, and yet no one ever goes to the bathroom throughout their entire quest.



From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 13 May 2003 01:44 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh yeah, Edmund Wilson, Tolkien's questionable politics, it's all coming back to me...

I thouroughly enjoyed the two LOTR movies, but I am in the very small minority of people who has read the books 3 times and still can't remember a blessed thing that happens in any of them. There's a hobbit village and Gandalf and Strider and after that, a vast haze. I read them as a young teenager, loved 'em reflexively. Read them as a twenty-year-old, was bored to tears by them, read them again when I was almost 30, believing that silly 20-year-old me must've missed something, but alas, no. There is page after page of "songs" fercrissake. I hate that! Plus all of the characters have at least 5 different names, so I could never figure out who the hell was talking to who! It's like a Russian novel, but they always have that helpful page at the beginning with all the patronyms nd nicknames...

Anyway, my expectations were fairly low, so I was quite swept away by the whole thing.

Very funny website Jimmy!

And while we're on the topic of over-rated "classics", why not let's trash Casablanca too? What the hell.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 13 May 2003 01:46 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm a much bigger fan of the Silmarillion and all Tolkien's lesser known/more difficult works, actually.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 13 May 2003 01:52 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Driver! Loved that flick. Walter Hill's first movie. Pure slavish Peckinpah-devotion.

Geez, Ryan O'Neal's really taking a beating here. C'mon, people, Paper Moon was a great film, in large part due to his fine comic performance.

Edited to add; Kelly's Heroes!?!?! What's wrong with you guys? Next you're going to tell me you didn't like Where Eagles Dare too. Sheesh!

[ 13 May 2003: Message edited by: ronb ]


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 13 May 2003 01:54 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Oh yeah, Edmund Wilson, Tolkien's questionable politics, it's all coming back to me...

Actually I couldn't really give a toss about Tolkien's politics. It's his writing that grabs me, or rather fails to. And for that matter Wilson, for all his venom about the books, had a sort of sympathy for Tolkien. That is, he thought fans of the book made far more of it than Tolkien did.

quote:
There is page after page of "songs" fercrissake. I hate that!

O my stars, yes. The sort of thing that gives doggerel a bad name. Even staunch fans of the books tend to fall silent and look doleful when someone raises the issue of the "poetry."


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 13 May 2003 01:58 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That depends. If you read his Lays of Beleriand, a more self-contained novel of poetry, some of it is quite hypnotic. He was trying to mimic old Germanic verse in English, and as an intellectual exercise it is quite interesting.

I am one of those who actually does like the writing, but mainly the more "archaic, biblical" sort of writing. He had a vast vision.

What bugs me more is all the knockoffs, really. Tolkien did Tolkien. I haven't seen anyone do Tolkien better than Tolkien, though a couple of authors might have come close. I have seen fantasy authors do quite clever things when they stop trying to do Tolkien. But it is because of all the knockoffs that I stopped reading fantasy and now largely stick to science fiction.

[ 13 May 2003: Message edited by: Mandos ]


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 13 May 2003 03:04 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm still convinced that PM was way better than AotC.

D'Oh!!!!

I meant Attack of the Clones.

Jar-jar notwithstanding, I didn't mind PM so much.


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 13 May 2003 03:19 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
And while we're on the topic of over-rated "classics", why not let's trash Casablanca too?

this thread won't be worth a hill of beans if you trash rick and ilsa. if you trash it for her, you can trash it for me.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 13 May 2003 03:28 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"No Such Thing" featuring Sarah Polley and, apparently, a drunken, senile, syphylitic chimp as screenwriter. Every copy should be rounded up and torched. Almost as bad as the dreadful "The Piano", which remains my personal benchmark for worst movie ever.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tyler S
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posted 13 May 2003 05:37 PM      Profile for Tyler S     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
One of my very most favourite bad movies is an offering called "Ravenous".

I would have to agree, one of the best worst movies ever made, next to the movie where the college guys try to get a roomate to kill himself so that they will get staight A's. What was the name? It had that Zack guy from Saved by the Bell in it.

Tyler


From: Ontario | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
iworm
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posted 13 May 2003 05:40 PM      Profile for iworm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mandos,

quote:
Oh, and, iworm, you sure that's Brin's site? It thought it was www.kithrup.com or something.

Well, www.davidbrin.com appears to be his site, but I guess it could be unofficial. The Kithrup site looks like it was made by a fan.

quote:
I'd rather see Startide Rising as a movie...not that would be an unforgettable blockbuster, if done right.

I agree fully. On Brin's site, there used to be a scriptwriter dude answering questions from fans about Startide's possible translation to the screen. Last I read, they were opting away from animating the doplhin lips. Apparently, it would be too weird for most audiences.

There are so many excellent classic science-fiction novels that would make truly wonderful films. Foundation comes to mind, as do Ringworld and The Mote In God's Eye.

But instead we just get Star Wars and Star Trek rehashes.


From: Constantly moving | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 13 May 2003 05:55 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
...and Rendezvous With Rama if Morgan Freeman gets his wish... David Fincher was attached, but that was months ago, so who knows?
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 13 May 2003 05:58 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
There are so many excellent classic science-fiction novels that would make truly wonderful films. Foundation comes to mind, as do Ringworld and The Mote In God's Eye.

The technology certainly exists to make these classics into movies. Puppeteers, Kzinti, and Moties could all be realistically rendered by today Computer Graphics Imaging (Wait'll you see The Hulk in June).

But the sci-fi novel I want to be made into a movie is Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon The Deep. It is simply the best space opera I've ever read.

[ 13 May 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
iworm
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posted 13 May 2003 06:02 PM      Profile for iworm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
...and Rendezvous With Rama if Morgan Freeman gets his wish... David Fincher was attached, but that was months ago, so who knows?

That sounds daring. Looks like they're more interested in testing the new "photorealistic" images than in rendering a loyal representation of the book. Then again, Morgan Freeman has never led us stray. I'd see it.


quote:
But the sci-fi novel I want to be made into a movie is Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon The Deep. It is simply the best space opera I've ever read.

You know, I bought that book as part of a group of novels going cheap on Ebay. Something about the way it's described on the back turned me off, so I never got around to reading it. But if you're vouching for it, I'll give it a try.


From: Constantly moving | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 13 May 2003 06:49 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
this thread won't be worth a hill of beans if you trash rick and ilsa. if you trash it for her, you can trash it for me.

Willie, I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship.

From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 13 May 2003 07:05 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Vernor Vinge has an Agenda. His agenda is extreme libertarian capitalism. It is the subtext for everything I have read from him. But...


...I admit I have not read a better author with that dogma, indeed one with any strong dogma of any political flavour. He is a very effective writer, unlike what little I have read of L. Neil Smith (can't stand preaching, geez) or the even more forgettable "Reason" columnist who wrote First Contract (ugh, he's the sort who thinks its OK to space people if they can't pay for the air at market value). Vinge, by comparison, is a paragon of subtlety, and his Fire Upon the Deep is very entertaining, as is his Deepness In The Sky (the sequel). However, I still prefer Brin. But better yet, C. J. Cherryh, my all-time favorite (http://www.cherryh.com/, http://www.shejidan.net/)

[ 13 May 2003: Message edited by: Mandos ]


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
grrril
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posted 13 May 2003 07:18 PM      Profile for grrril     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Navajo Joe, A spaghetti western starring Burt Reynolds-a must for bad movie night. Kills and scalps over a hundred bad guys single handedly. One memorable scene is when Reynolds tries to derail a train in the desert. Obviously there's few resources around but somehow the next shot is of a huge pile of huge trees on the tracks. No trees around for miles but somehow he yarded all the trees with no help. I found a quote by Reynolds:

the actor remarked that it was "so awful, it was shown only in prisons and airplanes because nobody could leave. I killed 10,000 guys, wore a Japanese slingshot and a fright wig."

truly a classic

and Kung Pow. I was trapped and I couldn't believe how bad, bad a movie could be. Not good-bad, but stunk to high heaven.


From: pinkoville | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 13 May 2003 11:03 PM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It all goes back to the willing suspension of disbelief.

Like, LOTR. In the first pass I gathered the anti-technology, 19th century pastoral England is utopia message. While I didn't buy into it then any more than I buy into it now, it didn't stop me from enjoying a ripping good yarn, no more than the social darwinistic overtones of "Ringworld" stopped me from enjoying that work, or that Pham Nuen is a running dog capitalist that just happens to save the universe in "Fire Upon the Deep".

Mostly what I want from story tellers is a story.

I'll lambast their politics when they write a manifesto.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 13 May 2003 11:09 PM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Someone mentioned "Kelly's Heroes". Agreed. The worst war film ever made. That Donald Sutherland hippy/tank commander character was just...DUMB.


Yes, exactly.

But who'd ever of thought of casting Telly Savalas as a jaded soldier? Or Don Rickles as acidly sarcastic?

Genius, that.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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posted 13 May 2003 11:52 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have a theory about Kelly's Heroes... they only wrote a script for Kelly, and his Heroes were whoever the casting director signed on. I also think that movie has one small redeeming quality, in that it accurately represents the strengths and weaknesses of American and German armour in WW2...
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 14 May 2003 12:01 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, every once and a while Hollywood assembles a cast of momentarily popular characters and throws them into a formula picture. I think "Kelly's Heroes" was one such flick, and probably would have been better if it ran with a more "fun" attitude than the more serious one it did.

There were overtones of that, such as near the end with the western gun fight "homage", when Eastwood and others faced down the Tank in the square. It looked out of place and silly-- just like Sutherland's performance-- but if the whole movie would have taken that tack, we would have forgiven even Sutherland.

One of the things that made the silliness of the "Airplane" or "Naked Gun" movies complete was the casting of stolid character actors in a comedy. Without Neilson or Bridges in either of those movies, all you would have had were a bunch of corny, obvious jokes.

"Kelly's Heroes", if written as a send up of war movies, would have been brilliant with that cast.


--------

Chilling annecdote that reveals the differences in German and Allied armour in WWII-- German tank crews nicknamed Allied tanks "Ronson's"-- after the popular lighter of the day.

[ 14 May 2003: Message edited by: TommyPaineatWork ]


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
sophrosyne
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posted 14 May 2003 12:01 AM      Profile for sophrosyne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Fled" and "Darkness Falls" get a couple of my votes. "The Conqueror" with John Wayne is pretty bad as well. I think "Natural Born Killers" was also incredibly bad. As was "Lost Highway." "The Fog" is a classically bad film.

"C.H.U.D." is also on my list of classic bad films, as is "The Stuff." it's 'best' scene involves goo-possessed (and vomiting!) dobermans. LMAO

And anything by Dino De Laurentis should probably be locked securely away in a lead-lined waste-containment hazard-encrusted box to protect future generations from contamination.

Positively speaking, I'm probably going to be alone in declaring that I liked "A Boy and His Dog" which many people don't seem to like all that much but being a Harlan Ellison fan I can't help myself... I also liked "Delicatessen," which is great if you're looking for a laugh (French film).


From: British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 14 May 2003 12:06 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Of course! "The Conqueror"! One of the best unintentional side splitters ever made.

John Wayne spouting archaic English dressed as a Mongol...... Robin Williams, eat your heart out!


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 14 May 2003 12:58 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
i get the feeling that we should begin a "Babblers for Ringworld" lobby group.

anyone else remember an ally sheedy film called "maid to order" -- it was not only horrid, but i got one of those boxes of popcorn with too much liquid butter. good thing she made "high art", otherwise, i'd associate her with cold sodden popcorn forever.

quote:
Ally Sheedy gives a fierce, subtly hypnotic performance in the lead role, her haunted expressions never before put to better use on the big screen. Her lesbian photographer character is anything but a stereotype, and Sheedy gives the role amazing reserves of feeling without resorting to unnecessary pathos ... Cholodenko has fashioned an interesting tale filled with recognizable truths about the nature of drug addiction and the uneasy effect it has on a community of artists. In an unforeseen comeback role, Sheedy raised quite a few eyebrows for her work here, no place more so than at the 1999 Independent Spirit Awards, where she surprisingly picked up the Best Actress trophy

From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 14 May 2003 12:58 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So that's what that picture is called. I saw it on the late, late show once, and ever since wasn't sure if I actually saw it or just dreamed about it.

John Wayne as Genghiz Khan. Nutty.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 14 May 2003 01:37 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Formula for a hit movie:

No Sex Please, I'm British

Oh wait, she did reify sex.

Sorry.

[ 14 May 2003: Message edited by: TommyPaineatWork ]


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Youngfox.
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posted 14 May 2003 02:40 AM      Profile for Youngfox.   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Star Trek Nemesis was an absolute waste of money, time and Patrick Stewart. It was pure Hollywood ejaculate and a betrayal of all Trek fans looking to see a good finish to the series. I had trouble staying awake through its plodding toward the next million dollar effect. Should have waited for the download.
From: Hypercube | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 14 May 2003 02:51 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bah. The original Star Trek series was as close as TV ever got to perfection. All else Trekkie has been a waste of copyright.
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 14 May 2003 02:56 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'll bet you two pocket protectors and a rock tumbler that Captain Pickard was way better than Captain Kirk.
From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 14 May 2003 03:00 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"Set phasers on stun..."
From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
glennB
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3993

posted 14 May 2003 08:53 AM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What the fuck is happening to quality actors these days? I have been a big fan of Ralph Feinnes - from his appearance in The English Patient, to most recently in Spider. But what the hell is he doing making Maid in Manhattanopposite J.Lo??? Bastard!

From the masterful work of Chow Yun-Fatwho gave a commanding performance in Crouching Tiger to making Bulletproof Monk.

Is nothing Sacred? Who is responsible for this and when will the insanity end?


[SLAM] That's the sounds of the door slamming behind me as I rush to offer my services as an agent to these gifted but miguided actors.

[ 14 May 2003: Message edited by: glennB ]


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
glennB
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Babbler # 3993

posted 14 May 2003 08:54 AM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ 14 May 2003: Message edited by: glennB ]


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
iworm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2976

posted 14 May 2003 10:59 AM      Profile for iworm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What the fuck is happening to quality actors these days? I have been a big fan of Ralph Feinnes - from his appearance in The English Patient, to most recently in Spider. But what the hell is he doing making Maid in Manhattanopposite J.Lo??? Bastard!

It's not a new affliction. Even Olivier did Clash Of The Titans.


From: Constantly moving | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
iworm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2976

posted 14 May 2003 11:40 AM      Profile for iworm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
i get the feeling that we should begin a "Babblers for Ringworld" lobby group.

Ringworld Movie Around The Corner

and

Ringworld Movie News


From: Constantly moving | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 14 May 2003 02:23 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Speaking of Olivier's funny accents period late in his dotage... remember the Jazz Singer with Neil Diamond? Olivier's classic reading of "I heff no sson!" as he rends his rabbinic robe.

Ally Sheedy. Hello? Short Circuit? I AND II!!!


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 14 May 2003 02:39 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ronb:
Speaking of Olivier's funny accents period late in his dotage... remember the Jazz Singer with Neil Diamond? Olivier's classic reading of "I heff no sson!" as he rends his rabbinic robe.

I was spared this movie, or perhaps spared myself the experience. I just saw "I heff no sson!" and thought immediately of the classic Simpsons episode, where Bart and Lisa go in search of Krusty's father, the rabbi.

I recall Olivier's Cherman accent in Marathon Man as a little fromageuse, as the French don't say, but should.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 14 May 2003 06:15 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yep. That's the very one. He managed to stink up Boys from Brazil with it too. Cherman, Chewish. Vat's ze tifference?
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 14 May 2003 06:23 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's two bad movie adaptations of well-regarded novels: The Lover, by Marguerite Duras, and Wide Sargasso Sea, by Jean Rhys. Both films I should have walked out on.

Duras I've never read; Rhys I read after seeing the movie, unfortunately. I say "unfortunately" because the film-makers had tried one of those scene-for-scene, word-for-word adaptations that rarely works, and in my opinion failed particularly miserably, in this instance, to produce a compelling film. So when I turned to the novel... all I could see was the damn movie.

Anyone seen either of these?


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 14 May 2003 06:37 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think I saw the Lover. Is that the one by Jean Jacques Annaud, the Quest for Fire guy? French schoolgirl, Vietnamese man in colonial Vietnam? Kinda soft-core-ish? I didn't hate it, but I haven't read the book. It didn't make a big impression.

Sargasso Sea I seem to remember being recommended in a "hubba hubba" kind of way, much as Mira Nair's dismal "Kama Sutra" was a few years ago.


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 14 May 2003 06:41 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, "Kama Sutra" was pretty grim. Surprising, considering that Mina Nair is seriously talented -- cf. "Monsoon Wedding." I dimly remember a recent New Yorker article about her, in which she acknowledged that yes, things went sour with "Kama Sutra."
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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Babbler # 2

posted 14 May 2003 08:40 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Too long!
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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