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Author Topic: Why do canadians pick on Céline Dion?
Brian White
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posted 02 January 2006 05:22 PM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
just wondering why they do it?
Why is it ok and fasionable to make snotty comments about her?
Is it because she is a successful french speaking singer?
It is like some schoolkid bully deciding it is ok to pick on someone and everyone joining in because they want to be cool too. So, who started it?
And Neil Young gets a little of the same snotty treatment too. Why?
Why not the guess who or gordon lightfoot?
How do you pick out your random victims for attack?
Just thought I would ask.

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Hephaestion
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posted 02 January 2006 05:27 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More than anything, it's the dreadful caterwauling. However, the fact that she is sooooooooo full of herself adds a lot to it, as well as her rehearsed "sincerity"... I say we let Vegas keep her.
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mersh
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posted 02 January 2006 05:29 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
just wondering how this is a feminist issue -- Neil Young, too...
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skdadl
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posted 02 January 2006 05:29 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lot of assumptions there, Brian.

It's a funny thing, though, music. Listen to enough of it, long enough, and you start to learn things about music, even if you've never been schooled in it, even if you've never picked up the analytical language that would explain why you've stopped liking some stuff.

I think that's why a lot of people who might have been moved by Celine Dion when they were young and first listening to music outgrew her, perhaps sound "snotty" about her, as you put it, later on.

Dion is an utter sentimentalist who forces her voice. Listen to music long enough and you will want better lyrics and a more subtle voice. What can I say?


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oldgoat
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posted 02 January 2006 05:29 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, at least it ain't a bloody green thread. Don't think it belongs in the feminism forum though.

Might try babble banter. "Please discuss Celine Dion from a pro-Celine Dion point of view."


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skdadl
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posted 02 January 2006 05:30 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good night! This is in the feminist forum?!?
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mersh
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posted 02 January 2006 05:31 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But what is the Green policy on Celine, anyway?
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pogge
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posted 02 January 2006 05:33 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mersh:
But what is the Green policy on Celine, anyway?

They're definitely in favour of her. She comes with her own amplifier. Saves on electricity.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 02 January 2006 05:33 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:

Don't think it belongs in the feminism forum though.


NO kidding!

Might try babble banter. "Please discuss Celine Dion from a pro-Celine Dion point of view."

A PRO-Celine Dion point of view??? Don't think it'd attract many replies that way...

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Andy (Andrew)
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posted 02 January 2006 05:34 PM      Profile for Andy (Andrew)   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like Celine
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skdadl
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posted 02 January 2006 05:34 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Coming soon to a feminist forum near you:

A Tribute to Elizabeth Taylor

Hilary Weston Has Feelings Too

Athina Onassis: Happy at Last?


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mersh
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posted 02 January 2006 05:36 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And who here picks on Gordon Lightfoot? Neil Young's fair game (Let's Roll!). But wait a minute, still not a feminist issue...
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skdadl
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posted 02 January 2006 05:38 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll pick on the Guess Who, if that's needed.
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oldgoat
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posted 02 January 2006 05:40 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dibs on Dan Hill.
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skdadl
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posted 02 January 2006 05:41 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, gosh, oldgoat: The honesty's too much.

I'm gonna have to go off and cry now. A lot.


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mersh
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posted 02 January 2006 05:41 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah, ok, I'm getting it now -- American Woman as anti-war sentiment drawing on sexualized & gendered metaphors. Well-meaning at the time, I s'pose, but those lyrics!
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Hephaestion
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posted 02 January 2006 05:42 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Andy (Andrew):

I like Celine


... but we forgive you, and we love you anyway, Andy.

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mersh
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posted 02 January 2006 05:42 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know my heart will go on.
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skdadl
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posted 02 January 2006 05:48 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, I feel a bit sorry for that snarky line about Elizabeth Taylor.

I saw the Tarragon's first Toronto production of Michel Tremblay's Hosanna, and I will never forget Richard Monette's pronunciation of her name - Eh-leez-ah-bett Tay-lor. Never. That is the greatest performance I have ever seen, bar none.

Here's to Tremblay, and Monette, and to Eh-leez-ah-bett herself. Survival counts.


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skeptikool
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posted 02 January 2006 05:48 PM      Profile for skeptikool        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The reason is, that many did not get the schoolyard out of their systems. Comfort of the mob, the need to gang-up, the need of a victim to elevate one's own ego.

Most annoying, with her talent, and success, she can tell all to: "Stuff it!"


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Hephaestion
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posted 02 January 2006 05:53 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, sure, skeptikool. That's it. No, really! You go with that...
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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 02 January 2006 05:55 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, like, we are all totally NOT gonna sit next to Brian, Andy and Skeptic at lunch today, ok?
From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 02 January 2006 06:13 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:
So, like, we are all totally NOT gonna sit next to Brian, Andy and Skeptic at lunch today, ok?

They have cooties.


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Maritimesea
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posted 02 January 2006 06:32 PM      Profile for Maritimesea     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
Dibs on Dan Hill.

quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Oh, gosh, oldgoat: The honesty's too much.

I'm gonna have to go off and cry now. A lot.


Actually the song I remember most was Slip Slide and Away, side B on the 45 was Sometimes when we Touch, if I remember correctly. Also I think the 45 was orange, remember the different coloured 45's? Lady's Night by Kool and the Gang was blue.

Oh, and Celine sucks.


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deBeauxOs
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posted 02 January 2006 06:44 PM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
posted by skdadl: Actually, I feel a bit sorry for that snarky line about Elizabeth Taylor.
Ah, but consider who is the current embodiment of the serial bride ... Jennifer Lopez? And just think, Elizabeth had the courage to take on the role of Martha in "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" ...

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anne cameron
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posted 02 January 2006 07:16 PM      Profile for anne cameron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And just What did El-ee-za-bet Tay-lor survive?
Being beautiful? Being amazingly wealthy? Having a voice like a fingernail down a blackboard?

SHIT! Wish I could "survive" that way!!!

oh, right, she had a bad back...
small fekkin wonder!


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solarpower
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posted 02 January 2006 07:21 PM      Profile for solarpower   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I got turned off Celine the first time listening to my neighbours 3 teenage girls singing her songs. Her songs should only be sung by people who have had voice training.
The 2nd time was
my heart will go on, and on, and on, and on, and on...and oh how I wish it would stop.

From: that which the creator created from | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 02 January 2006 07:22 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To borrow from Bruce McCullough...

Q. What is it that you don't like about [her music]?
A. The sound.


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Hephaestion
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posted 02 January 2006 07:26 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:

To borrow from Bruce McCullough...

Q. What is it that you don't like about [her music]?

A. The sound.



Reminds me of Mark Twain's acidic comment, "You know, Wagner is a lot better than he sounds."


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Michelle
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posted 02 January 2006 07:27 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Q. Why is this thread in the feminism forum?

A. It isn't anymore. It's in the culture forum now.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 02 January 2006 07:35 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to protest. Celine Dion may not belong in feminism but she sure as hell doesn't belong in culture!
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lagatta
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posted 02 January 2006 07:41 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, she does, actually. The culture forum was originally "pop culture" but some of us pedants and sticklers wanted to discuss Dante and Walter Benjamin. Sport, pop culture (good or not) and all facets of high or low culture, good or bad, are fair game here.

By the way, francophones who hate Céline hate her far more than anglophones do.

I can't stand her voice or manner.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gold_n_blonde
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posted 02 January 2006 07:59 PM      Profile for Gold_n_blonde     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Celine is "too over the top". Think about her wedding...far too showy for Canadians! Even her wedding dress was far beyond being a showpiece. And the fact that she and her husband (who had cancer) can go to the States for the 'best' medical care. How many Canadians can do that? So that aspect was irritating as well, particularly as she kept talking about it and rubbing our noses in it. I am sure that there were lots of Canadians out there who had cancer who couldn't do the same thing that she and her husband could. And when her son was born, it was the same thing. It was like a prince was born. Everything about her is 'too much'! And her comments about how wonderful the United States is, doesn't help to make her popular in Canada either.

Now, if you want to talk about another bothersome person. Oprah really irks me. Does anyone else think that she is becoming 'god-like', being able to bestow goodness on all those less fortunate? (I am not saying that giving to others is a bad thing; rather it is in the way she does it.)


From: Saskatchewan - hard to spell; easy to draw | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 02 January 2006 08:02 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
Yes, she does, actually. The culture forum was originally "pop culture" but some of us pedants and sticklers wanted to discuss Dante and Walter Benjamin. Sport, pop culture (good or not) and all facets of high or low culture, good or bad, are fair game here.

I realize pop culture is appropriate here as well. I was trying to suggest she doesn't even qualify as that.


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clersal
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posted 02 January 2006 08:24 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What bugs me about Céline Dion is her insisting that she lives a simple life! Is really a simple person.

Really. A simple castle and goodness knows how many houses. Maybe they are all: 'Les Bécosses?'


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simonvallee
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posted 02 January 2006 09:21 PM      Profile for simonvallee   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
First, we can rule out the possibility that it's merely a racist phenomenon because she's francophones, she's ridiculed a lot also in Québec.

I think she's ridiculed a lot because, well, she's popular, when you ridicule something, you go for what everyone knows, not some obscure references.

Then again, most "pop stars" deserve, IMO, ridicule. I mean, most of them don't compose their songs, they don't play instruments, they just give an image and sing along to the music written and played by others who'll probably never make a fortune, for the profits of big record companies. And that stands too for those girl and boy bands. But they're more popular and richer than most bands whose members really compose their own music, play and sing it. They create cults of personalities and it's somewhat a duty to people to bring those cults down a notch.


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retread
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posted 02 January 2006 10:09 PM      Profile for retread     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually I suspect its just the sappy songs she sings. She's got a good voice, but listening to one of her albums could induce diabetes.
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clersal
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posted 02 January 2006 11:15 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 02 January 2006 11:48 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just don't like her music. I don't even dump on her. I simply don't know much about her, her discograpy, nor do I care.

But I'll rip on one of my favourite Canadian musical acts all the time, the Barenaked Ladies. They are pure awesome for everyone over 35. Too bad I'm barely 19.


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Brian White
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posted 03 January 2006 03:56 AM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I heard her in tears pleading with the americans not to shoot the starving black people (as looters) after huricane katrina.
Is that a plus or a minus with the school bullys?
As far as I know, she was winning international song contests long before she became known in canada.
I never heard of the guess who till I came here.
And I have seen people in a few countrys in awe listening to Neil Young, but here he is often dismissed as an "old stoner".
Still wondering why you slam your better singers while giving others such an easy ride?

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Average Joe
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posted 03 January 2006 04:05 AM      Profile for Average Joe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Her singing is good. It is what she says and does (and also how she does it) that makes me sick. I am a French Canadian, so it is nothing to do with being anti-Quebec. She is an extrovert with no common sense and is vastly overexposed. Too many interviews to reveal what an insensitive airhead she is. What initially turned me off was the unpleasant story about Celine making big trouble for a lowly TV Guide writer who asked a simple question about her not singing in French.
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deBeauxOs
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posted 03 January 2006 04:37 AM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is not an isolated phenom, since many Canadians are also critical or nasty with regard to other female singers who have gained pop status: Alanis, Shania, Avril, Anne Murray, k.d. and even Sarah McLachlan.

Quite likely it is Céline's ostentatiously opulent lifestyle which may irritate some people. Just not Canadian, eh?

[ 03 January 2006: Message edited by: deBeauxOs ]


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$1000 Wedding
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posted 03 January 2006 05:37 AM      Profile for $1000 Wedding        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agree with you debeaux. More or less. Celebrities are panned in general because that's the nature of celebrityom; if you don't like it then don't be a celebrity. I don't think Canadian celebs get it too bad.

Shania sold out her Canadian roots when she married that German dude and moved to a castle in Switzerland. Her musical roots have all but disappeared and she dresses like some Euro-Vampire-Elvira of the Dark. Awful costumes.

Celine irks alot of people because she is a sellout and showoff who tries to convince all of us she's like the rest of us.


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Yst
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posted 03 January 2006 06:12 AM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by $1000 Wedding:

Celine irks alot of people because she is a sellout and showoff who tries to convince all of us she's like the rest of us.

What did Celine ever have to sell herself out of? It reminds me of a satirical t-shirt which was recently brought to my attention:

"I liked
N'Sync
when they were
underground."


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 03 January 2006 07:09 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brian White:
Is that a plus or a minus with the school bullys?
...
Still wondering why you slam your better singers while giving others such an easy ride?

What is this "you you you" stuff? Who are you addressing?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 03 January 2006 09:15 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
I have to protest. Celine Dion may not belong in feminism but she sure as hell doesn't belong in culture!

He says what I'm thinking!

I don't pick on Celine, but I can't stand her. Why? Because she's the most amazing person in the world. Just watch an interview with her, she'll tell you herself.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 03 January 2006 12:22 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think perhaps the best answer is the same as why dogs lick their balls.

Because they can.


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skeptikool
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posted 03 January 2006 01:27 PM      Profile for skeptikool        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As the Titanic went down, down, down, Celine's maudlin heart went on, on, on and on. It became a bit much when MacDonald's imposed it on me with my morning coffee. As with all I've heard her sing, she does it well, but the singer usually can not help trite and inferior lyrics. Neither can a singer help the over exposure particular songs receive.

When I fall in love it could be with someone like Celine. It's about singing. Her attributes and failings are another matter.


From: Delta BC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 03 January 2006 06:00 PM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
...the singer usually can not help trite and inferior lyrics

Well, yes they can actually. They can refuse to sing them.


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mersh
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posted 03 January 2006 06:05 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You know, come to think of it, I'll bet we're all just pissed that we weren't invited to either wedding.
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jolted
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posted 03 January 2006 06:10 PM      Profile for jolted     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can understand the people who cannot tolerate Celine's music. I was like that, for the most part (I liked some of her interpretations... River Deep, Mountain High for example).

But, after I saw this:

http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickability/index.html?url=/video/bestoftv/2005/09/03/lkl.celine.dion.cnn

I could not question her commitment to helping others. She gave $1 million dollars to help.

Can't anyone just note that Celine has done the right thing and say so?


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F.
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posted 03 January 2006 06:10 PM      Profile for F.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
the singer usually can not help trite and inferior lyrics

Billie Holiday spent much of her early career turning hackneyed pop lyrics into works of art. Her ability to interpret a song, to invest trite lyrics with subtle shades of meaning and emotion, is probably unrivaled.

Celine Dion does not belong to the interpretive tradititon of singing. Like Streisand, her technique is decidedly Broadway, that is, spectacle over substance.


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 January 2006 06:17 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skeptikool:
As the Titanic went down, down, down, Celine's maudlin heart went on, on, on and on. It became a bit much when MacDonald's imposed it on me with my morning coffee.

You asked for it by having your morning coffee in Macdo.

quote:
And I have seen people in a few countrys in awe listening to Neil Young, but here he is often dismissed as an "old stoner".

Nobody's worse than that deadbeat junkie, Eric Clapton.

Maybe Canadians criticise Dion in particular because she's as bad as most of those other singers out there (Posh Spice, Britney [sic], and all the rest), but since she's from Canada, we feel as if she's our fault.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
F.
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posted 03 January 2006 06:30 PM      Profile for F.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
we feel as if she's our fault

We're much happier when Canada is recognized for producing talent like Joni Mitchell or Leonard Cohen. We want our most respected artists to represent us in the world, not our fleeting trends or our American-clone performers.


From: here | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brian White
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posted 03 January 2006 07:03 PM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I apoligize to michelle. ("You" means all the people who jump on the celene bashing bandwagon simply because it is a bandwagon).
Over Half the posts in this thread are bashes.
And there was perhaps one post agreeing with me about how she told off the americans about new orleans.
She basically said, have you no humanity? How dare you stop those people from getting food!
Thats when high and mighty right wing christian organizations were hoovering up ALL the donations AND egging on the police to shoot the hungry looters.
As far as I am concerned, that woman is a hero.
She knows what happened to the dixie chicks and the lady who camped near bushes ranch.
She put her career on the line right then and there.
I certainly think it is the bravest most meaningful thing that any Canadian entertainer did in 2005.
So, come on folks, give credit where it is due.
You (Celine bashers) dont HAVE to listen to her music.
I would like to understand why she is so singled out for derision. It is pretty clear that she sells a lot of songs and has done for over 20 years. So, saying that her music is crap is not borne out by the evidence. Is it perhaps because she sang first in french and then later in english? Is it because she is from quebec and celine bashers dont like to see them successful?
As an outsider, I find it pretty strange that celine bashers pick on someone who spoke out about new orleans so strongly when it really really counted.

From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Krago
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posted 03 January 2006 07:11 PM      Profile for Krago     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Back in the summer, CBC Radio invited four MPs to discuss their favourite Canadian songs. Jack Layton was predictable ("Rise Up"), Rahim Jaffer was surprising ("Home for a Rest") and Rodger Cuzner chose "American Woman". The Blocquiste picked some Celine Dion song.

When Layton had to comment on the BQ pick, he told the story of him and Olivia Chow being at a tea house in a remote corner of rural China. While they were drinking their tea, a Celine Dion song came on the radio. He mentioned that even though he wasn't a big Celine Dion fan, he was proud that a Canadian was so popular around the world that he could hear her music in one of the most unlikeliest places on Earth.


From: The Royal City | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
FabFabian
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posted 03 January 2006 07:32 PM      Profile for FabFabian        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The reason people don't like Celine Dion is because she is so over the bloody top. All the dramatics, the over wrought singing style, the cheese ball songs she sings. Yuck !

I loved the Simpsons episode when Homer and the gang go to Canada to get some cheap pharmaceuticals. The sign at the Canadian border says "Now Celine Dion free."


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
F.
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posted 03 January 2006 07:34 PM      Profile for F.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
As far as I am concerned, that woman is a hero.
She knows what happened to the dixie chicks and the lady who camped near bushes ranch.
She put her career on the line right then and there.

If that is your criteria for heroism, you must be quite proud of Kanye West as well. Between the two of them, I'd say Mr. West put himself in a far more vulnerable position with his comments.

quote:
I certainly think it is the bravest most meaningful thing that any Canadian entertainer did in 2005.

I'd venture to say that Frank Stronach's contribution to the flood victims was far more meaningful and immediate.

quote:
I would like to understand why she is so singled out for derision. It is pretty clear that she sells a lot of songs and has done for over 20 years. So, saying that her music is crap is not borne out by the evidence.

You can't seriously believe that the quality of a musician's work directly correlates to the sales figures. According to that plan, Britney Spears is superior to Bob Dylan.

quote:
Is it perhaps because she sang first in french and then later in english? Is it because she is from quebec and celine bashers dont like to see them successful?

There's nothing I would like more than to see Quebec's Lhasa de Sela find a large audience. She is very talented, thought provoking, and multilingual. Recently she has recorded songs in English.


From: here | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 03 January 2006 07:51 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of the reasons I can't stand Celine is because of her "songs" (more like commercials) that she has done with Chrysler and Air Canada.
From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brian White
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posted 03 January 2006 08:04 PM      Profile for Brian White   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
F.
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Babbler # 10725
"I'd venture to say that Frank Stronach's contribution to the flood victims was far more meaningful and immediate".
Well, did Frank castigate the Americans for not doing enough? Celine Deon told them directly on tv or radio to take a good look at how little their political leaders were doing. Not giving, dooing!
You can give money to a charity and wash your hands and pat yourself on the back and still people will die while the charitys fart around with the money or the government services stall on doing stuff.
She wasnt just talking about money. She probably even got some people to look into their tiny racist souls and question how they could, in the richest country in the world, not organize busses and planes to get the people out of there immediately. (You know, like the British little ships saving the soldiers in WW2).
She probably reached millions of people with that interview. And Bush must have been mad as hell about it.
(It is probably online somewhere, really worth hearing).
And here we go again with an absurd value system.
Frank gave more so he is better! Frank is not THERE. Frank dis not risk having the Bush media destroy him like Dion did. She knew the risk but still she took it. She spoke out. She embarrassed people into action. Thats worth billions.

From: Victoria Bc | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
rinne
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posted 03 January 2006 08:19 PM      Profile for rinne     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"And I have seen people in a few countrys in awe listening to Neil Young, but here he is often dismissed as an "old stoner"."

Say it isn't so, I have never heard Neil Young described in such a way and by the way his new album is fabulous.

And I think it is absolutely hilarious that you created an opportunity for Celine bashing.

I saw her on Larry King the night she gave away the million. I saw a woman who in that moment understood that even in her perfect world she was not insulated from the suffering of others, perhaps it has been awakening for her.

I think she embarrasses us a little, she is just so me, me, me or moi, moi, moi!

I like the River Deep, Mountain High she did but other than that I am not a fan and wouldn't go out of my way to put her down but since there was this thread...



From: prairies | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 03 January 2006 08:43 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Like a lot of people, I like Dion's voice, but detest the music. I have similar feelings toward Mariah Carey. Such amazing voices wasted. It's like trying to admire an ashtray made by Michael Angelo.

There's also something wierd about Dion's stage presence. She has a masculine way of moving herself, and it comes across on her very feminine, slight frame as clumsy or forced. I think it leads people to suspect that she's phoney.

I actually like Neil Young when he's angry, such as in "Rockin' in the Free World." But most of the time he wallows in the maudlin, and I turn to English Electric Blues when that I'm in such a mood. The folk inspired falsetto whinning takes me nowhere.

I'm kinda funny about Gordon Lightfoot. It's deffinately not my kind of music, and the often times downbeat nature of the music is, as indicated above, not my cup of tea.

But I find the combination of acoustic guitar and his vocal range captivating. Can't really explain why. It's like pulling on an old thick sweater after coming in from the cold, and sitting by the fireplace.

I think what makes "The Guess Who" work is the self effacing attitude of Randy Bachman. If left to the pretentious and flaky Burton Cummings alone, "The Guess Who" would have faded into a laughing stock years ago.

In every wannabee rock star's garage should be a little statue of Randy Bachman. One thinks that if Bachman was booed off every stage and couldn't get a gig anywhere, he'd still be haning out in the garage on a saturday night pounding out a few tunes with the neighbors for the sheer joy of it.

And amid the self effacing, "just a garage rocker" facade, he'll do something sublimely musical like "Blue Collar."

Gotta like a guy like that, even if you don't like the music.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boarsbreath
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posted 03 January 2006 09:18 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Amen to all that, TP. But as for the Dionne singlet, I'm from Montreal, and I didn't come to detest her, I detested her from the beginning. Not just the music; hell, most of the top 40 any decade is crap (and always the same crap, somehow: check it out. Most of 1970 could be 1980 or 1990 or 2000; the albums reflect talent & progress a little better. But I was ranting -- ).

I read all through the thread to see if anyone else felt this way -- apparently not. But here it is.
A -- She's another woman letting herself be run like a robot by a leering older man. Like all those skaters & gymnasts. And when she started, there was all this BS about him being just her manager...then sure enough, one day she marries him. Yuck.

B -- Quebec was so loaded with talent, even specifically female vocal talent, and which one gets picked up by the ROW? Frickin' Dionne. Like the Labelle Sisters getting all the attention for Lady Marmalade, a virtually note-perfect rip-off of Nanette Workman a year or two before (this is an old gripe, late 70s).

...that said, one day, on the fifteenth or so involuntary hearing, I realised that Titanic song is actually lovely...


From: South Seas, ex Montreal | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 January 2006 10:34 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, since you mentioned the 70's, Dianne Dufresne rocks, as does mon ami Robert; and I never get enough of Lenny Cohen and Gordie Lightfoot on the radio.

quote:
Is it perhaps because she sang first in french and then later in english? Is it because she is from quebec and celine bashers dont like to see them successful?

You're probably a Colorado Avalanche fan.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 04 January 2006 09:03 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brian White:

I would like to understand why she is so singled out for derision.

You're the one who started this thread, numbnuts. Nobody on rabble was bashing Celine's music nor arrogance before this little vehicle was created. Perhaps the odd joke was made at her expense, but that happens to all celebrities, and is hardly bashing. I [heart] irony, BTW.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 04 January 2006 05:02 PM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Comparing Celine Dion to Neil Young is ridiculous no matter which way you look at it.

Neil Young is a composer and performer, Celine Dion is a singer. Never the twain shall meet (intended pun).

Wonderful singing in not necessarily a requirement for a composer. Someone else has mentioned Dylan, and that's probably as good an example as one could find.

The songs that Celine Dion sings are vapid. She could choose not to sing such songs, but apparently doesn't care. For that, I think we can blame her.

If you want to compare Celine Dion to someone, it should be to some other singer who didn't write songs, say Billie Holiday (well, ok, she wrote God Bless The Child, but that was an exception).

As soon as you make that comparison, you realize how feeble Dion really is.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 04 January 2006 05:48 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My mom used to tell me tales of Celine Dion when I misbehaved.

Until the movie Titanic came out, I assumed that she was merely that. A tale designed to scare children.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 04 January 2006 06:12 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
celine dion is under the bed ... behave, or she'll get you.

quote:
You (Celine bashers) dont HAVE to listen to her music.

quote:
When Layton had to comment on the BQ pick, he told the story of him and Olivia Chow being at a tea house in a remote corner of rural China. While they were drinking their tea, a Celine Dion song came on the radio. He mentioned that even though he wasn't a big Celine Dion fan, he was proud that a Canadian was so popular around the world that he could hear her music in one of the most unlikeliest places on Earth.

i think that jack's story illustrates nicely that she's the musical equivalent of city TV, everywhere.

what annoys me about globally pervasive corporate music (U2, jacko, celine) is that they simply aren't that good. if "the joshua tree" sells 17 million albums, and ron sexsmith sells 40 000 copies per album, it doesn't represent a chasm of songwriting talent or quality.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boarsbreath
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posted 04 January 2006 07:12 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Billie Holiday (well, ok, she wrote God Bless The Child, but that was an exception).

Hoo boy, some exception...! Did she really?

('Course, I mainly know it through Blood, Sweat, and Tears)


From: South Seas, ex Montreal | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
anne cameron
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posted 04 January 2006 08:28 PM      Profile for anne cameron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Billie also wrote "Strange Fruit", one of the most courageous anti-lynching anthems in the history of the growth of civil rights.

She might only have had an IQ of about 70 (they figure fetal alcohol effect) but she used what she had.

Until it used her up.


From: tahsis, british columbia | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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posted 04 January 2006 08:40 PM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Strange Fruit was sung by and made famous by Holiday but she did not write it. The song was written by Abel Meeropol under the pseudonym Lewis Allan.

Meeropol also adopted Ethel and Julius Rosenberg's two sons after their parents' execution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Fruit
http://pbs.org/independentlens/strangefruit

[ 04 January 2006: Message edited by: Paul Gross ]


From: central Centretown in central Canada | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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posted 04 January 2006 08:44 PM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This discography site gives Holiday part or all credit for 13 songs.
http://billieholiday.be/Songs/SongHome.htm

[ 04 January 2006: Message edited by: Paul Gross ]


From: central Centretown in central Canada | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
mersh
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posted 04 January 2006 08:44 PM      Profile for mersh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh, heh. The thread title just read Why do Canadians pick on... Paul Gross. When will the bullying end?
From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 04 January 2006 09:52 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't doubt that Celine has talent. She has an incredible voice and seems to be passionate about protecting that voice and giving a great performance for her fans. I also don't doubt that she was really sincere about helping people after Hurricane Katrina. I don't think she was trying to be self-aggrandizing...and that is great. She probably is a wonderful person. However, the lyrics that she sings are not her own and she tries so hard to evoke passion out of the listener that, to me, she comes off as fake and manipulative. I am a self described minimalist and Celine is the antithesis of minimalism.

Celine has millions and millions of fans who are devoted to her and that is their right. I remember working in for a satellite provider in Montreal, when the Celine Dion biography was being aired on A&E, being flooded with calls from francophones who, while they had nothing but French programming, wanted to add on the channel just to see their Celine (many didn't even understand English). I am not going to judge anybody for their personal taste but Brian you need to do the same...everybody has their own taste in music and nobody deserves to be attacked for it.

[ 04 January 2006: Message edited by: Marc ]


From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cartman
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posted 04 January 2006 10:08 PM      Profile for Cartman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She has that self-absorbed Barbara Streisand air about her....hey, wait a minute.
From: Bring back Audra!!!!! | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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Babbler # 7842

posted 05 January 2006 05:17 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boarsbreath:

Hoo boy, some exception...! Did she really?

('Course, I mainly know it through Blood, Sweat, and Tears)


Billie Holiday visited her mother to try and get some money. Her mother had recently found out Billie was a junkie, refused her request for money, and turned her away from her door.

Billie returned to her apartment, lay down on the bed and wrote the words to 'God Bless The Child'.

Billie never overacted, never tried vocal tricks, never sang to boost her own image. Every singer, male or female, any genre, could use Billie as an example, and do well by it.

Celine would do well by it.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 05 January 2006 06:03 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To continue with the Céline-vs-Billie comparison for a minute, here's a brief, and I think germaine, passage out of an excellent essay written by a fellow babbler:

quote:
What is not emphasized in the Holliday mythology as often as the heroin, alcohol, arrests, raids and abusive men who pimped Billie for her money and fame, is the fact that she may have been targeted specifically for harassment because of her legendary song "Strange Fruit". Written by Lewis Allan about lynching in the South and recorded in 1939, the song painted a vivid, ironic portrait of a "pastoral scene of the gallant south. The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth." Lewis Allan said of Billie's rendition of "Strange Fruit", "She gave a startling, most dramatic and effective interpretation of the song which could jolt the audience out of its complacency anywhere. That was exactly what I wanted the song to do and why I wrote it."

According to the Blackburn biography, British journalist Leonard Feather called the song "the first significant protest in words and music, the first unmuted cry against racism," and for Ahmet Ertegun, the record producer, it was "a declaration of war-- the beginning of the civil rights movement." Many who knew Holliday believe that she was singled out for drug arrests, prison sentences, and finally the loss of her cabaret card which affected her ability to get work while other famous drug-users were allowed to go free simply because she continued to sing the protest song. Some venues even insisted beforehand that Billie sign a contract promising not to sing "Strange Fruit" during her show; she often violated the contract, sang it anyway and caught hell for it, as her room was raided by narcotic authorities the same night of her performance or she was arrested several days later.


So from her palatial digs, Céline said something on behalf of black victims of Hurricane Katrina, and donated a million clams (out of her multiple bajillions) to hurricane relief. Yeah, so what? That doesn't even compare to what Billie accomplished, from a lot lower vantage point.

Anyway, if I want to hear great female singers, I tend to go more for gals like Annie Lennox, Bessie Smith, Aretha Franklin, and, of course, Billie.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 05 January 2006 07:03 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Billie Holiday thread drift rocks!
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
anne cameron
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posted 05 January 2006 08:23 PM      Profile for anne cameron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I feel pretty much the same way about Anne Murray as most people here seem to feel about Celine ... to have such a voice and then to sing such pap, claptrap and gack... disappointing, really.
From: tahsis, british columbia | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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Babbler # 10099

posted 05 January 2006 08:41 PM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
posted by Brian White: And there was perhaps one post agreeing with me about how she told off the americans about new orleans.
If you go back to the threads about the Katrina flooding, you will find a number of threads who noted, in a positive light, her spontaneous (and thus uncensored) outburst on a primetime, mainstream television program. Even the Radio Canada commentators and hosts, who rarely play her songs, fell all over themselves in applauding her chutzpah.

From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kaitlin Stocks
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posted 05 January 2006 08:49 PM      Profile for Kaitlin Stocks   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How did Celine sell out?

Well, she tells the whole world how she's a proud francophone who grew up in Quebec with 100 brothers and 100 sisters, and that she's SOOO proud of her background.... Yeah Yeah.

But I have nary seen another American sing "God Bless America" more proudly than Celine did. I have never seen a Canadian love the United States as much as she appears to. Much the same reason why I hate Jim Carrey.

I also hate that she lied and said that she had a baby herself. Cha, and I'm the queen of England.

I can't STAND Celine. The shreiking and the whining in her songs - Can't stand it. The smacking of her own chest - Can't stand it.

Did anyone see that Saturday night live where Ana Gastyre did Celine? It was pretty funny.


From: The City That Rhymes With Fun... | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Andy (Andrew)
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posted 05 January 2006 09:06 PM      Profile for Andy (Andrew)   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The USA made her a millionaire. I'd be grateful.

She sang God Bless America after a national tragedy. Thousands of Canadians gathered after the WTC disaster. Rallying together after a tragedy is a GOOD thing.


From: Alberta | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
$1000 Wedding
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11486

posted 05 January 2006 10:37 PM      Profile for $1000 Wedding        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ain't success in America the ultimate paradox for Canadians? You have no choice, but to sell out your cherished Canadian beliefs and throw all that anti-American attitude away if you want to keep that success coming. Just ask Celine, Jim Carrey, Mike Myers and all the others.

Their level of success depends on carefully cultivated and lucrative relationships with media giants- corporations who would have a spaz attack if any of them started trashing NAFTA or the Iraqi War. Millions are invested in their movies and albums and no one wants to hear them trashing America while raking in the cash. And the lure of lucre is far too enticing.

Vegas is the ultimate reserve and refuge of the cheezy performers, hence, it's perfect for Celine. Do you expect her to perform at Lollapolloza or open for the Stones? Vegas provides a protective bubble for her brand. She's such an easy target for Saturday Night Live. I'm sure she visits her hometown in Quebec- with her entourage, bodyguards and video crew to record how she's "Celine from the block".

Look at Jim Carrey. I remembered he was booed by Canadians during the live Conan O'Brian show in Toronto when he mentioned he was obtaining US citizenship. Canadians know a sellout when they see one.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged

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