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Author Topic: Are the right-wing really this powerful?
RevolutionPlease
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posted 30 May 2008 06:53 PM      Profile for RevolutionPlease     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Star

Really sad they could tie this to Islamophobia.

[ 30 May 2008: Message edited by: RevolutionPlease ]


From: Aurora | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 May 2008 06:55 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, its pretty nuts, eh?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 30 May 2008 06:57 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is so over-the-top that it almost seems like a joke.
From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
RevolutionPlease
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posted 30 May 2008 07:10 PM      Profile for RevolutionPlease     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by laine lowe:
It is so over-the-top that it almost seems like a joke.

I never get the jokes.

Sorry if I was naive for posting this.


From: Aurora | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 May 2008 07:13 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well its hard to believe the story is true. Like some fake story someone posted on the internet for a joke. But there it is. You can not wear a paisley scraf on TV anymore, because it looks like something an Arab might wear.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 30 May 2008 07:21 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When you think about it, is it really any worse than this?
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 May 2008 07:32 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The question that has always been in my mind is the connection between Islamophobia and racism against people of colour. Islam, is the monotheastic religion of the Abrahamic tradition, that is found most commonly among people of colour.

Malcolm X starts his political career with the idea that Islam is the religion of Black people, and moves on from there in his later years, but there is a correlation I think.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
RevolutionPlease
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posted 30 May 2008 07:58 PM      Profile for RevolutionPlease     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
When you think about it, is it really any worse than this?

No it's not Unionist, thanks. Really creepy how easy it's becoming for the media to slip these stories in.


From: Aurora | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 30 May 2008 08:13 PM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think this demonstrates the power of racism, not the power of the right wing.

The right wing media is full of nasty racists who are just cashing in on an opportunity to exploit the depth of the hold racism has on so many Americans.... and hitch their cart to it for yet another romp around the track.


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 30 May 2008 08:20 PM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And unionist, do you really beleive that kowtowing to fears that you know have racism in the mix is as bad, or even nearly as bad as brazenly and gleefully stocking and exploiting it?

Obama is commiting the error of ommission in not doing what he could to make this racism visible, and that is in the same category as stoking flames?


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 30 May 2008 08:26 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One is pathetic, the other is frightening. Guess which is which.

ETA: Well, I'll give you a hint. What would you think of a website that said this:

quote:
McCain is not a Jew and has never been a Jew. He is a committed Christian. McCain has never gone to a Jewish school. His middle name is not "Hymie".

Or how about:

quote:
Hillary Clinton is not a lesbian and has never engaged in any lesbian acts. Clinton is a practising heterosexual. She finds time to have sex with men during her busy campaign.

Not pretty, is it?

So how does Obama get away with this Islamophobia?

Now if you asked me, which is worse: Obama denying he is a Muslim, or someone selling Liberty Fries - how should I answer?

[ 30 May 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 May 2008 08:32 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's not an error of ommission its an error of commission. The answer to the question, "Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party," is to reject the question. You say, "that is irrelevant."

Just so here, Obama should not be saying "I am not a Muslim." He should be saying, "my religious convictions are not relevant to my candidacy," by doing such he will be sending out a message to American Muslim's that being Muslim is not a crime.

Correcting the record for the media, might be ok, but I tend to agree with Unionist that parading this message on his web site plays directly in anti-muslim paranoia.

I don't think its the same as the ad being pulled, but I don't think it perfect political behaviour either.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 30 May 2008 09:08 PM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Correcting the record for the media, might be ok, but I tend to agree with Unionist that parading this message on his web site plays directly in anti-muslim paranoia.

.... but I don't think it perfect political behaviour either.


I agree with all that. Maybe the difference in the way that we see it is that you, and maybe unionist, are making the comparison to the chickenshit act of pulling the ad.

Where what I see is the shocking level of racism and the even worse willingness to trade on that. So that is what I saw Obama being compared to.

ETA: just saw unionists post, and no he isn't saying the same thing.

Maybe its having grown up immersed in the raw pwer of racism in the US, and having 'refresher stints' of swimming in it.... but I just can't compare 'pathetic' to 'frightening'.

Yes I know that 'pathetic' also contributes to the perpetuation of racism, but I'm just not inclined to blame people for cowardice given the surroundings. And I am by no means just talking about polticians. One runs into the same dilemna in everyday life.

[ 30 May 2008: Message edited by: KenS ]


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 May 2008 09:18 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think both send a similar message, but the main distinction for me is that pulling the ad is actually an attack upon all Arabs basicly, not Muslims per se, but then I doubt the people pulling the ad make those distinctions either. They think they are being Islamophobic, but actually they are being anti-Arab, which is why I brought up the relationship between Islam and race.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 30 May 2008 09:24 PM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For Americans we are talking about, its all about those Arabs. They don't even know that anyone else is a Muslim. Muslim=Arab=Muslim.

And if they watch grisly scenes on the TV of communal violence in India with dialogue about Muslims being attacked- it won't change that cognitive formulation in the least.


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
KenS
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posted 30 May 2008 09:36 PM      Profile for KenS     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just clicked into what you are saying about a possible Islam and race connection in the US.

I don't think so.

Before 9/11 US mass culture's stereotypical Arabs did not have a religion.

9/11 hijackers changed that. Before 9/11 that Hollywood Arab wasn't associated with a religion or with any kind of fanaticism.

Its only after 9/11 we get the Muslim=fanatic and Arab=Muslim dyad.

[ 30 May 2008: Message edited by: KenS ]


From: Minasville, NS | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 May 2008 09:42 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am not even going to venture an opinion on that, I just thought I'd raise the issue to see what people thought.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 30 May 2008 10:22 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Obama wasn't attacking Muslims with that statement. He was protecting himself from attacks made on him in which it was falsely implied that he was not only a Muslim but a jihadi(hence all the loose talk about him being educated in "madrassas", even though "madrassa" is simply the Arabic word for school).

I wish he'd felt free to just say "It doesn't freaking matter if I'm a Muslim or not". But, in post 9/11 America, he didn't, unfortunately have that luxury. Any other candidate, even Ralph Nader, facing the same attack in U.S. politics would likely have done the same thing. It makes Obama a bit cowardly, but it doesn't make him an Islamophobe.

It was wrong to attack the ad, and it was wrong of the right wing and Hillary Clinton's campaign to make implications about Obama's middle name into accusations. But its completely unfair to imply that this makes Obama an anti-Islamic bigot.


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 May 2008 10:31 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, Ken, I am of the opinion that the US electoral system is too far gone for any hope really, so fundamentally its not an issue for me if Obama is making himself be more winnable. However, I do care when mainstream American politicians are perpetuating religious prejudices, and so I do my part to point out that that is what they are doing when they are doing it, since maybe that pulls the plurality over a bit.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 30 May 2008 10:37 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's true, Ken. This is about about the U.S., so context is important. Although I do think some of the 9-11 paranoia is felt here but to a lesser extent. Several months after 9-11, and there I was at O'Hare with an Algerian coworker at the time who speaks Arabic very well and both of us body-frisked by U.S. soldiers armed to the eye teeth. What a hassle.

[ 30 May 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged

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