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Author Topic: Teletubbies
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 20 September 2001 04:26 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I luv luv luv Teletubbies. My favourite is LaLa.

I saw a documentary once that questioned the educational value of Teletubbies, and claimed that the main purpose of the show was to get children addicted to TV at as young an age as possible.

Sorry, but I can't remember who produced the doc or where it aired. It was a long time ago.

I'm no Luddite. I like TV, and I think it can be beneficial to children, if it's used carefully and in moderation.

IMHO: Mr Rogers and Mr Dress-Up=good.
Teletubbies and Sesame Street=bad.

But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.


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skdadl
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posted 20 September 2001 04:31 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I stand by my declaration above. But then, of the shows you list, Teletubbies is the only one I've ever seen. I did love The Friendly Giant. I hated Howdy Doody.

I don't care why you don't like the Tubbies. I still think Again! Again! is one of the funniest lines I know, and anyone with wee kids or wee animules will know why.


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 20 September 2001 04:36 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
You dare to disagree with me?!?!?!


I wish I had a sumo-smiley, stamping it's feet!


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skdadl
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posted 20 September 2001 04:41 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, at least you've lost the pompous routine.

Mission accomplished.


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 20 September 2001 05:14 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I'll never lose the pompom routine though.
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skdadl
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posted 20 September 2001 05:23 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Touche, m'boy.
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'lance
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posted 20 September 2001 05:24 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I trust you have a nice short skirt for that, M'boy.

And if it's warm, do you wear much more?


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vaudree
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posted 20 September 2001 05:35 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I remember when they changed the chemicals in the apartment building after the watermain break. The watermain break itself was not that bad - just smelled like the place my dad used to get milk before they tore down the farm to build St. Vital Centre.

First it was just in the starwell so I held my breath going up and down stairs. Then it seeped into the hallway so I tried to hold my breath either until I got outside or until I got back into my apartment. Then one day I woke up dizzy and staggering - a grabbed a few things put them into my parents car and stayed over at my parents place until the owners could take care of this "temporary" problem. It soon became apparent they were not going to do anything about it so I took Saturday and Sunday off work so that I could pack because I was the only one in the family who knew how to pack. Work made me promise that if I was any shape to work on Sunday I would come in. I was so out of it that I could not think straight enough to make the boxes either "books" or "dishes and clothes."

The next day I was talking like a Tele tubbie - I sounded distant, my words slurred, and I was talking in single syllables. It took me two full weeks after that before I got my short term memory back completely and the rest of the experience I don`t want to talk about.

What I am trying to say is that teletubbies are not known to promote intelligence or critical thinking - making them more like POwer Rangers than Sesame street.


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Dawna Matrix
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posted 20 September 2001 05:50 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mboy, what's wrong with Sesame Street?

PS - I have two talking cuddly teletubbies sitting on my bed. Laalaa and Tinky Winky.


Favourite Teletubbie line:

Narrator: "What's in the bag, Tinky Winky?"

(It sounded for all the world like a cop confronting a dope fiend).


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Michelle
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posted 20 September 2001 06:12 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My son loves the Teletubbies (although he's pretty much over them by now - they really are aimed at babies, not pre-schoolers).

I don't think the point is to addict children to TV. I think it's realism - everyone knows that babies are going to watch tv whether the Teletubbies are on or not, because parents learn early that the half hour it takes to make supper or get stuff done will be much more productive if the children are occupied. We can get into the whole moral issue of babysitting your kids with the television, but the fact is, most parents do it at some point or another, so you might as well have age-appropriate programming on.

I think Teletubbies is a really cute show. It promotes healthy expression of emotions (my son loves "big hugs"), and it mirrors the language abilities of babies and early toddlers. Sure, it's baby talk, but there have been studies that show that one of the best ways babies learn to talk is when their parents parrot their baby talk - it gives them confidence. That's likely why it comes so naturally to do so, and to speak in baby talk to infants.

I agree that Sesame Street is a mixed blessing. Great for learning letters and numbers, but not so great because the quick sound bites don't do much for attention span. But you can't criticize Teletubbies for that - everything is slow moving, with lots of repetition, which is just the way babies and toddlers like it (and learn best from it).

Of course, if I were to be a proper early childhood educator according to my training, I would not allow my son to watch tv at all. But hey, I never claimed to be a purist.


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JCL
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posted 20 September 2001 06:37 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, Sesame Street still kicks ass. Even though I stopped watching it religiously until I got out of grade 2 or something like that.

I don't see how Sesame Street can be bad for kids. Every show has their ups and downs for kids. And I do agree that TV can be a great tool for education but also a bad tool for propaganda of any nature.


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meades
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posted 20 September 2001 07:40 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The teletubbies are great! My favorite is PO! eh-ohhh!

I went to their web-site, and they had a print out you could colour. The pose Po was in inspired me to add accesories. We all know Po is red, eh? Well, Po's hand was in a position that looked like she was saluting something, so I drew a long, waving Soviet banner right next to her! That doesn't look funny on screen, but it was funny in the moment.

I also bought my sister (who's name is Debby, BTW. I should add she's 19) a talking Po doll for one christmas (her favorite is Po too). All the dolls say a sequence of popular teletubby phrases, but one that struck us, was "Debby Die!!!!". The doll was literally threatening my sister with death! Actually, I don't know what it was supposed to say, but it was just earie that it sounded SO MUCH like "debby die". Do they have teletubby smilies? Probably, eh?

ba-bye! (it's supposed to be Po)


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 20 September 2001 09:06 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
In Amusing Ourselves To Death, Neil Postman has a lot to say about Sesame Street. This is pretty much the gist of it:

quote:
For example, consider the Sesame Street teaching style and its impact. In Amusing Ourselves to Death, Neil Postman writes that this show "was entirely consonant with the prevailing spirit in America. Its use of cute puppets, celebrities, catchy tunes, and rapid-fire editing was certain to give pleasure to the children and would therefore serve as adequate preparation for their entry into a fun-loving culture." He went on to say that Sesame Street is "an expensive illustration of the idea that education is indistinguishable from entertainment." The end result has been that children love school only if it's like Sesame Street. Postman comments: "Teachers, from primary grades through college, . . . are reluctantly concluding that the principal means by which student interest may be engaged is entertainment."

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Michelle
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posted 20 September 2001 11:12 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Actually, I don't know what it was supposed to say, but it was just earie that it sounded SO MUCH like "debby die".

My son has the talking Po doll too. He's saying "Tubby Toast", not debby die. I laughed so hard when I read that - it reminded me of some of the more ridiculous misheard lyrics on those websites that catalogue them.

In fact, I know the whole sequence by heart.

Eh-Oh!
Buh-bye!
Eh-oh!
Po!
Eh-Oh!
Tubby Toast!
Big Hug!
Eh-Oh!

(Think I've heard it much? Thank goodness he's grown tired of the damn thing.)

[ September 20, 2001: Message edited by: Michelle ]


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rasmus
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posted 21 September 2001 01:12 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Y'all are clearly homophobic for not liking Tinky Winky the best.

Disclaimer: I have never, ever, watched the Teletubbies. Ever. Not based on principle, that's just how it happened.


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skdadl
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posted 21 September 2001 10:03 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
D'ye know, rasmus, an ultra-PC colleague once wrote me a long angry lecture about the Tinky Winky issue and my confession that I liked the Tubbies, and I still don't understand. Why would a feminist not be in favour of a show that acknowledged gender indeterminacy or gender construction (if indeed the show meant to do that at all)?
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'lance
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posted 21 September 2001 12:04 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Curious -- what were your colleague's objections?
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Michelle
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posted 21 September 2001 12:56 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, I'm curious too. Of course, the two female teletubbies are smaller, but in every way they promote gender equality. The two boy tubbies' favorite toys are dress-up toys: a purse and a hat. The two girl tubbies' favorite toys are a ball and a scooter. I always thought that was kind of neat.

Not that I think that only girls should play with "boy toys" and only boys should dress up, but I like the idea that it gets across. It's already okay for girls to play with either "girl toys" or "boy toys", but there's still a big hang-up out there about boys playing dress-up. You should have seen the look on daddy's face when my son came home from day care with nail polish on - the girls were doing it and he wanted to do it too! It was so funny. He loves to carry my purse too, because that means he gets to pretend to be grown-up, just like Mommy. I like to see boys encouraged to do a full range of playing instead of sticking rigidly to just "boy" types of play. He'll learn soon enough that only girls wear nail polish. He can pretend for now. Role playing is a great way of learning, and I like it that the Teletubbies make it seem natural for boys to do "girly" things too.

You know, I would like to think that Tinky Winky being purple, having a triangle on his head, and carrying a purse WAS a deliberate, subtle gay thing, a way of showing a positive political stripe to mommies and daddies while it goes completely over the heads of the kiddies. Wouldn't that be neat? What would be wrong with that, anyhow? I'm not saying that it WAS deliberate, but I'm just saying "go team" if it actually was.


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skdadl
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posted 21 September 2001 01:00 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The most I could ever make of her reaction was this: Do you know how PC-ness can sometimes seem to be turning into something more like squeamishness or prissiness? I run into this a lot as an editor, with abstract, bureaucratic lists of terms or usages that can't be allowed in one publication or another. Sooner or later, such rules run into a context in which they become absurd. I think my colleague had ended up there: if there was a public fuss over some putatively coded gay allusion in Teletubbies, then the whole program had just become taboo.
As I say, it seemed obviously illogical to me.

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meades
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posted 21 September 2001 05:04 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle: See! It does sound a bit like "Debby die!" doesn't it? Go squeeze 'er tummy! You'll see!

On top of that earie-ness, we also have a picture of my sister that Christmas, and because of the way she set the Po doll aside, it looks like it's trying to sneak up and attack her!

That Po doll is evil, I tell you! EVIL!!!!

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 21 September 2001 05:06 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
"There's your problem right there. Somebody set this doll to 'evil'." - The Simpsons.
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Dawna Matrix
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posted 21 September 2001 05:14 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A favourite episode, mediaboy.
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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 21 September 2001 05:22 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Gaa Gaa (Tinky Winky): "Hurt everyone."

Lisa: "Did Gaa Gaa just say, 'hurt everyone'?"

Bart: "Gaa Gaa- cute name."


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Doug
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posted 21 September 2001 07:37 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You'd better watch that doll, or one day you'll find that sister of yours face down on the kitchen floor with a knife in her back, Po sitting there with the same defiant but guilty look she has when it's "time for tubby bye-byes" and the Noo-Noo sucking up a puddle of blood. We don't know what Tubby Custard is, it's all pink - it could be made of ground-up children.
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meades
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posted 21 September 2001 09:18 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
LOL!!!
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Michelle
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posted 21 September 2001 10:55 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ewwww!
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girlincrisis
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posted 24 September 2001 05:10 PM      Profile for girlincrisis     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
oh dear lord...please refrain from any further disparaing comments against those sweet, harmless Teletubbies!!
i know what you are, an "anti-Teletubbite"!!

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bandit
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posted 24 September 2001 05:55 PM      Profile for bandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think from the sounds of it the parents like the tubbies more than the kids, thats usually how it is. car keys amuse a child of that age and is far more educational, I don't see what all the fuss is about. One thing I find fresh about this show is that the U.S didn't see fit to make an american clone like they did with men behaving badly, survivor, absolutely fabulous (cybil in U.S.), and a whole wack of others.
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meades
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posted 24 September 2001 06:40 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
bad news bandit. They did Americanize the show to a degree. Many times, I think on PBS, the teletubies have a distinct American narrator, while on TVO, they're clearly British. I don't know if that was planned, or if the British narrator got sick a few days, or something.
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Doug
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posted 24 September 2001 07:03 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, to be fair to the Teletubbies, yeah, I'm sure they don't grind up children into tubby custard all the time. They have those rabbits to grind up too.
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Michelle
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posted 25 September 2001 01:11 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey, girlincrisis, that's pretty funny. I would shorten it to Anti-tubbite, though. It gets the point across with less syllables.

Anti-tubbite. Wow. I have to start using that one. With appropriate credits, of course...

Regarding the parents liking it more than the kids: I don't think that's accurate. Believe me, if your kids don't like a children's show that's on TV, you won't watch it. But even if you hate a children's show on TV that your children like, you'll watch it either for their sake, or in order to get something done that takes around half an hour... (A big purple monstrosity comes to mind...)

[ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: Michelle ]


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 25 September 2001 02:28 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I actually prefer Barney to the Tubbies, because Barney doesn't rely on the fast-paced editing, the endless repetition, and the visual effects of the Tubbies. A bunch of kids singing kids' songs together is a classic form of children's entertainment. Barney reminds me of pre-school. The Tubbies remind me of a music video.

The reason most adults like Sesame Street and hate Barney is because Sesame Street is designed as a parent/child show. They included little bits for the parents' sake. Barney is purely for the kiddies, which is why it grates on adults' nerves so much.

But when you look at the benefit/harm ratio of these shows, I think Barney is more benign.

Of course, I'd prefer a Mr Rogers-style of show over a Barney-style show, if given the choice.


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meades
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posted 03 October 2001 12:10 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hello Tubbies!

Ehh-Oh!!

[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


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machiavellian
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posted 03 October 2001 01:03 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, Mr. Rogers actually seems more homosexual to me than Tinky-Winky...where is Mrs. Rogers? What's with the mailman always doing things with him?

Barney is a bit too old for my 19 month old - she prefers the Tubbies (and I do too - those kids on Barney look like they're drugged up - like happy little brainwashed automotons. Yuk). She can't really do crafts or anything yet, and the repetition is how kids learn at this age, although to adults it can seem mind-numbing.

quote:
What I am trying to say is that teletubbies are not known to promote intelligence or critical thinking - making them more like POwer Rangers than Sesame street.

Teaching kids critical thinking - at the age of birth to 2 or 3 years - a feat not accomplished by anyone in history. Nor should it be. They're not capable of it. Come on, they're still learning to eat, speak, use the toilet. My daughter isn't even old enough to understand the concept of "yesterday" yet, and her biggest concerns are trying to go "potty", "me" and "mine", and whether she can find her doll at bedtime. Tubbies help her learn such concepts as "up" and "down", colours, etc., which is what she is capable of learning right now,and thus, I disagree that they don't encourage intelligence. She also likes to dance along with them - preventing her from becoming a little couch potato. A little perspective, please. Critical thinking can be introduced later, when they're ready, when their cognitive abilities are far enough advanced to even begin to understand the concepts involved. Let kids be kids and leave the Tubbies alone - you need to think like a child to appreciate them.

Besides, they show on PBS which doesn't have commercials, which I think are a worse influence on kids.

As for their Americanization, all of the little movies that show on their tummies about kids doing things still feature Brits, talking in distinctive Brit accents.

Go Tubbies! (I like Dipsy. When they were dressing up in a tuttu he said: Run away! Run away!)

Oh, and I have to say it: When YOU have kids, you'll UNDERSTAND.


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 03 October 2001 10:49 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Actually, Mr. Rogers actually seems more homosexual to me than Tinky-Winky...where is Mrs. Rogers? What's with the mailman always doing things with him?


I realize you put a smiley in there, but come on! You seem to be saying that any adult man who has healthy male friendships MUST be gay? He has no wife, therefore he MUST be gay? Any man who's kind, caring, and quiet MUST be gay? Any man who likes children MUST be gay?

That's one of the stereotypes that contributes to stupid macho behaviour. When people say that male role-models like Mr. Rogers or Mr. Dress-Up seem gay, it really sends a message to boys (not to mention men) about how a "real man" is supposed to act (i.e., NOT like Mr. Rogers).

[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
andrean
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posted 03 October 2001 11:27 AM      Profile for andrean     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Y'know, Mediaboy, you're pretty cute when you're riled!

You make a good point - we all make those kinds of thoughtless comments about who's gay (or whatever, though usually gay) without thinking of the bigger thing that's being said. Even you...

quote:
When people say that male role-models like Mr. Rogers or Mr. Dress-Up seem gay, it really sends a message to boys (not to mention men) about how a "real man" is supposed to act (i.e., NOT like Mr. Rogers).

'Cause gay men aren't "real" men?

See how easy it is? And it's just thoughtlessness, not malice, just like machiavellian. Eternal vigilance!

[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: andrean ]


From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 03 October 2001 11:31 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Gay men are real men, but they aren't "real men", know what I mean? The "real man" is an image. A fantasy. A stereotype.

But your point is well taken.

[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


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andrean
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posted 03 October 2001 11:41 AM      Profile for andrean     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I know, I was mostly teasing you in your moment of outrage.

Too bad that Mr Rogers and Mr Dressup aren't the stereotype, the fantasy, the goal of Real Manhood. Why aren't they? Is it because their qualities are perceived as feminine? I know, I'm contributing to the dreaded 'thread drift' but what do you think needs to happen to de-gender such qualities?


From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 03 October 2001 12:22 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
First of all, it would be nice if this kind of children's show still had a place on the air. There are no more Mr Rogers/Mr Dress-Up/Friendly Giant/Fred Penner/Captain Kangeroo shows anymore. There used to be healthy male role-models on children's tv. How come there are so few male performers trying to take their place when the old guys retire? The only one I can think of is the dude from Blue's Clues.

I bet television networks are afraid of protest from feminist groups if they put another show on the air featuring "yet another white male". But if we don't provide these kinds of role-models, who will boys end up emulating?

Other than providing healthy, balanced, male role models in the media, I don't think there's much else needed. Male society is becoming more diverse on its own. Men just have to feel free to stand up and complain when they feel they aren't being treated fairly, and not be afraid of being called "whiners" or "bitter".


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Doug
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posted 03 October 2001 06:45 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So...are you trying to say that Tinky-Winky isn't a healthy male role-model?
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machiavellian
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posted 03 October 2001 06:46 PM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, MediaBoy, there was as smiley by my comment about Mr. Rogers, because I wasn't serious. Jeez, must lose something in the translation. I didn't say anywhere that he MUST be gay because he's single and has a male friend, anymore than I said Tinky-Winky MUST be gay cuz be carries a purse. ANd you were putting words into my mouth, MediaBoy, when you were talking about liking children, being calm and quiet, etc. as being gay traits. I didn't say that, nor would I. The POINT is that both assumptions are a little ridiculous. Sorry but you're preaching to the choir. I don't feel that I was being thoughtless by trying to use the same line of reasoning being used on Tinky-Winky in a joke in order to show that it's silly.

Still, what if he were homosexual? What's wrong with that? He's still a good role model either way. Personally, I don't feel that saying someone is homosexual makes them less of a man - it just makes them homosexual.

As for there not being any good male role models on TV just because kid's TV isn't rife with shows about one man who is the lead guy - well, there aren't a lot of shows with just one woman who is the lead, either. Seems to me just like the shows have moved to more of an ensemble cast-type format, with men, women, kids, etc. all together.

Besides, kids get a lot more out of REAL male role models, like their fathers or other men who are important in their lives, than they do from TV. While I acknowledge that TV can shape perceptions, I don't think we should rely on TV to fulfill the vital functions that these men perform.


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 03 October 2001 06:53 PM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry, double post, but I just remembered - what about Bear in the Big Blue House? I think he's a great male (bear?) role model!
From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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posted 04 October 2001 12:31 AM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr. Rodgers is married and has been for many years. There was public notice of his anniversary (50th I think) on one of the celebrity shows recently. I just caught it while surfing channels. A wife is just not important on the show so is never mentioned, I guess. I don't think kids care about the sexuality of their heros, just the gender.
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 04 October 2001 01:20 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Has anyone seen Mr. Roger`s book on potty training? If you ask me the guy is a bit strange.
.............................................

On the otherhand he did give Mr. Dressup his first break.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 04 October 2001 01:41 PM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I always have preferred Mr. Dressup, but then I didn't see Mr. Rogers at all when I was a kid.

A moment of silence for the well-loved Mr. Dress-up, who sadly has passed on.


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
girlincrisis
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posted 04 October 2001 01:55 PM      Profile for girlincrisis     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
it is interesting that kids DON'T care what sexuality a person is..i know when i was a wee lass that i loved BOTH mr.rogers and mr.dress-up and that it NEVER occured to me that they were possibly gay...that's kinda neat. actually, it wasn't til i got older and happened to catch an episode of mr.rogers that i thought, " man, he IS kinda effiminate", but it still was of no consequence ya know what i mean? that only proved to me how much i've been indoctrinated by gendered language, that can only perceive people as 'either'/'or', feminine/masculine, depsite their sex.
From: van city | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 October 2001 02:56 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
well, there aren't a lot of shows with just one woman who is the lead, either.

I can think of two popular kids shows right away: Crazy Quilt and Comfy Couch (two of my son's favorites). Also, Rockabye Bubble, and some of the TVO host-produced kids shows...

Personally, since in the majority of homes the woman is the main caregiver of the children, I don't have a really big problem with more male role models on kids' shows. Maybe it kind of evens things out. After all, if the majority of one-human-lead shows were headed by women, wouldn't feminists have a valid argument that it is sexist to always show women in positions of nurturance toward children?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 10 October 2001 03:20 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pretty easy to tell the parents from the non-parents in this discussion....

Teletubbies may seem pretty simplistic and unintelligent on the surface, but if you look at the age range they are targeted to, you'll notice they really know their audience and are actually quite brilliantly designed.

First off, take a look at the "Baby Sun" -- babies love looking at other baby faces. They have an immediate response to it. Babies also are drawn to bright colours -- yup, they did that, too. Characters are simple and repetitive (if you think babies and toddlers don't like repetition, you haven't played "peek-a-boo" with one recently), which is exactly how children in this age range learn. And the different language levels are also easy for wee ones to identify with. Have you noticed that each Tubby has a different language level? The range is from about 1 yr (or slightly less) to about 2.5 yrs. What a shock! That's who it's geared to!!!!

Oddly enough, the show was designed by a developmental psychologist and a producer who had worked in children's programming for over 20 yrs. They had an inkling of what they were doing.

You can't really compare Teletubbies to the other programming for children easily, because it's really the only thing geared to infants and toddlers. Sesame Street is for preschoolers, as is Mr Rogers and most other programming. But in defence of the "adult-oriented" bits in Sesame Street, isn't it a good thing to give something of interest to the parents, too? Isn't it generally better for the kids when mom or dad watches tv with them?

Anyway, sorry for ranting.... Both my daughters have watched the Tubbies, the older one (4 yrs) hasn't bothered with them for a while, but #2 (8 mos) is enjoying it. She just learned how to wave and say "Bye-bye" a couple of weeks ago...


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 10 October 2001 03:36 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Yes, Teletubbies IS brilliantly designed to elicit a response from babies. It's unparalleled in it's ability to grab their attention and keep them focussed, zombie-like, on the television screen.

But, how does it affect the babies' development? What does it do to their ability to learn in a non-television environment?
http://www.massnews.com/tubbies.htm
http://www.jeannebeckman.com/page7.html
http://www.commercialalert.org/teletubbies/
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/s/h/shb117/Teletubbies.html

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 10 October 2001 04:01 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: vaudree ]


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 10 October 2001 04:03 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
First off, take a look at the "Baby Sun" -- babies love looking at other baby faces. They have an immediate response to it. Babies also are drawn to bright colours -- yup, they did that, too. Characters are simple and repetitive (if you think babies and toddlers don't like repetition,

All it means that somebody is smart at marketing/manipulation. What you look at in a cartoon is whether it promotes quick fixes over exploration or sensation over substance as the way to go. It doesn`t matter whether it`s happy S/S (sing a song - or visit lula land and your problems will miraculously disappear) or sad S/S (violence and sex instead of plot).

I know I promised Audra I wouldn`t say anything so I`ll keep it short not to get into too much trouble. But that article on Rabble on thinking said it and Zentall and Zentall basically said it all and about the appeal of teletubbie. When everythings too new overwhelming and scary, we want simple solutions and repetition. When things become old, boring and restrictive - we want to look at alternative routes and look at things in a new way. Childrenn`s shows teach children how to deal with problems in both adaptive and maladaptive ways.

A lot of what people compain about in teletubbies they also complain about in the new American sitcomes.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gayle
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posted 10 October 2001 05:24 PM      Profile for Gayle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree with mediaboy. Sure, it's brilliantly targeted at babies. But my problem is this: OH MY GOD, they're just BABIES, why are they even NEAR a TV?

Distraction? Sure, I can totally understand how you need to get your child to be quiet while you make dinner, regain your sanity, what have you. But why the TV? Why not give them a playgym or a toy or something?

Parents have been distracting their kids without the TV for a bazillion years. I think there's too much reliance on it for entertainment (in the adult world too!). I'm just as guilty; instead of doing something constructive, I often plonk down in front of the aptly-named boob-tube. I wish I didn't; I wish others didn't; I certainly wish kids didn't. It's so *mindless* most of the time.

Anyway, that's my stance. Admittedly, I'm in the "I have no kids" corner, so what do I know? I also have a decided Book bias.


From: Cape Breton, Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 10 October 2001 05:32 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Anyway, that's my stance. Admittedly, I'm in the "I have no kids" corner, so what do I know? I also have a decided Book bias.

I too have no kids, but my sister has two and does not own a television.

I'm also an unabashed tv-booster. I like tv. I think there are some things you get from tv that you just can't get from books. A book about the rain forest just ain't the same as an episode of The Nature of Things.

But David Suzuki is no Tinky-Winky.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 10 October 2001 05:48 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Anyway, that's my stance. Admittedly, I'm in the "I have no kids" corner

That was obvious to me from the beginning of your post where you wrote

quote:
But my problem is this: OH MY GOD, they're just BABIES, why are they even NEAR a TV?

Most people who speak in absolutes about child-rearing have never had one. And I'm not trying to be a jerk here, Gayle because I used to speak exactly the same way (even about television!) - before I had my son.

I find that most parents I know don't usually speak in absolutes about just about ANY child-rearing issues even when they have definite rules (including no television) for their own children... This is because they remember all the ideals they had before having kids, and how so many of them went to the wayside once the children arrived.

It's been interesting getting together with some other parents in my building in the playground and commiserating about all the little peculiarities of our kids, and laughing guiltily about all those things we always said we would never do - and that we ended up doing because it was the only way to survive this week's hell stage. Television is one of many of mine. Sigh.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 10 October 2001 07:38 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If they must watch teletubbies - they might as well play the free games as well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/schools/

From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 10 October 2001 08:02 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
hee hee!

YAY! Time for Tubby bye bye!

Ba-bye!

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
LotusGrrrl
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posted 10 October 2001 09:02 PM      Profile for LotusGrrrl        Edit/Delete Post
I don't know. Teletubbies scare the hell out of me. It's like they're doped up on valium moving slo mo.
From: vancouver | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 10 October 2001 09:50 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

I don't know. Teletubbies scare the hell out of me. It's like they're doped up on valium moving slo mo.

I think this show is behind in the times. I think the show would've been popular with parents who were into the love thang and LSD in the 1960s.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 10 October 2001 10:37 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On the contrary, it's right on time. The rave scene will eat this right up when they have kids.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 10 October 2001 10:56 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ya know, Hussein and Bin Laden should've watched Teletubbies or Sesame Street than getting chemisty sets to play with as kids.
From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 10 October 2001 11:36 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Ya know, Hussein and Bin Laden should've watched Teletubbies or Sesame Street than getting chemisty sets to play with as kids.

Judging by how they turned out - it`s more apt that their hero was Uncle Bob from Archie and Friends.

quote:
I don't know. Teletubbies scare the hell out of me. It's like they're doped up on valium moving slo mo.

It`s more apt to be (censored by Audra) because that`s the effect parents describe when the dosage is slightly too high.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 11 October 2001 12:34 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Vaudreee - *LOL* I remember that show. And Marvin Mouse. Weird place to keep a rat. Inside a bowling ball carrying case. But then, Joey Gregorash wasn't a great replacement. Ewwww. He emmcees the entertainemnt acts at McPhillips Street Station Casino on Fridays and Saturdays.
From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 11 October 2001 01:00 AM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don`t remember him being so mean at the beginning, but it was like he relished in finding some little insignificant thing Archie did wrong and insist that he beat himself up feeling sorry for it. liked Marvin because he refused to feel guily over nothing and he would actully stand up to that bully. To bad I was more like Archie than Marvin.

Oh Misery - literally. They have this Gremlin rule that you can`t eat after midnight and my appointment isn`t until 3pm! Why can`t they make it nothing after 4am and I could make sure I wake up at 3:30 am and eat something. At least it`s just a test and it`s not Grace. Grace you go for day surgery after following the Gremlin Rule and you have to walk from admitting to surgery past a donut shop.

I remember having surgery at Misery when I was a kid and the nurse telling us that if we didn`t behave ourselves that the door beside the play room led to the psychoward and she would take us over to the other side. Me and my rowdie little friends with our IV`s - I think we were the reason they send people home so early now-a-days.

Audra, I know I`m not supposed to use the word "rowdie" but the story doesn`t make sense without it.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 11 October 2001 02:32 AM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Yes, Teletubbies IS brilliantly designed to elicit a response from babies. It's unparalleled in it's ability to grab their attention and keep them focussed, zombie-like, on the television screen.

But, how does it affect the babies' development? What does it do to their ability to learn in a non-television environment?


Interesting links, btw, Mediaboy.

The gist that I get from the info you've provided is that some people see television, and Teletubbies being television, as a bad thing. There's very little on specifically why the Tubbies would be a bad thing for kids to watch. They deal with numbers and colours, which is what you generally teach children. There's action, and in my experience (albeit with only my older daughter and her friends) is that the kids don't sit like zombies, they're up and dancing along with the Tubbies. I think there's a high-pitched note of hysteria going on and not a lot of basis in reality or common sense.

Now, I can agree that using the television exclusively during the day could be harmful to a child's development, but what about parents who spend time with their kids as well? I also think telecommuting parents in the Beckman article are painted pretty harshly -- I run a small company from home, and face some of the same challenges. But neither work nor some moderate television viewing has prevented my kids from hitting developmental milestones consistently early.

quote:
Distraction? Sure, I can totally understand how you need to get your child to be quiet while you make dinner, regain your sanity, what have you. But why the TV? Why not give them a playgym or a toy or something?

Gayle, that's a pretty big assumption. I'm sure every parent has used distraction with or without the television at some point or another, but television viewing does not have to be distraction. You can use tv as a learning tool, and although it does not replace one on one play or books, it can be one more thing to enhance your child's world. There's nothing wrong with it if used properly.

I like what Michelle said about absolutes.... That's pretty much what having kids will do for you, show up all the grey areas....

Anyway, this is one mommy who really needs some sleep....


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 11 October 2001 02:52 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Zoot Capri, you took the words right out of my mouth. I agree with you completely. And I apologize if I kind of reiterate some of the things you said.

Michelle, you too - thanks.

KBMediaBoy, first, I would invite you to actually sit down with a flesh-and-blood child, two or under, and watch Teletubbies WITH the child. See the child's reactions. Consider it media/consumer research, and report back to us. It seems to me that you are continuing to make the mistake of assuming you know how a very small child thinks and reacts. Which is not a surprise. It happens to most of us (I was once the sam way too) - and then we have kids, and good-bye smug self-righteousness.

My daughter doesn't tend to stare zombie-like at the TV screen. That would require sitting still for an extended period of time, which at 20 months, isn't one of her strengths. She tends to play, drawing with her crayons, playing with other toys, etc., unless she is very tired, in which case, sitting and staring is the signal that she needs a nap. When she watches Tubbies I am generally there watching with her. When there is an animal parade I name them for her, much the way I name things in the books I read to her. She learned the word "bye-bye" from the Tubbies, and waves to them when they leave. Frankly, I feel that there is no way to isolate her completely from the media. Nor should there be. First, she will likely see TV once in a while - I'm not going to keep it shut off from 7:00 am to 7:30 pm every day. Second, if I were to prevent my daughter from watching TV completely, then she would probably be more likely to fall prey to commercialism when she was eventually exposed to it, which she would be, since no matter how strict I was, other parents would not be as strict. I much prefer allowing her to watch a show geared to her, which contains no violence, and uses repetition, faces, etc., things which she can understand, and set up the pattern of discussing it with her. Then when she is older I can teach her critical thinking skills and she can watch TV responsibly.

I read the links you posted and as Zoot said, it seems to me that the main argument against the Tubbies is simply that it's TV. It's passive, it's habitual, etc. Children should learn by playing. Well, of course. Half an hour of Teletubbies is not the same as leaving her in front of the TV, alone, all day. We go outside. We draw, play with playdough, etc. I can understand that there is a need to educate parents about EXCESSIVE TV viewing, but I really don't subscribe to the argument that this means ANY TV is detrimental.

Frankly, children before the age of two are more passive in their learning than is being recognized. When I read a book to my child, exactly how is she taking any more of an active role in learning than by watching TV? SHe can't read!! All she can do is listen to my voice and look at the pictures. ANd TV is another form of visual and auditory stimulation. The more kids get of that, the better. Now I'm not saying it should come from TV only but that used sparingly, TV can provide this as well (again, cheers to Zoot for making the same point). My 2 month old baby "watches" a little TV now and then, and I'm sure as she does this new and different play of colours and sounds is building new connections in her brain, not indoctrinating her to demand a Lala doll as soon as she can speak.

And frankly, some of the arguments in the articles you linked to are not only silly but ridiculous. For eg:

quote:
“The kids love the toys and that kind of love for an inanimate object is not good. They love it so much they cannot understand it is pretend.”

So I suppose security blankets are harmful to children's health as well. And I suppose playing with their dolls and stuffed animals, and loving them and believing they are real, is harmful too. Sorry, Velveteen Rabbit - so much for you.


quote:
The voice trumpets are a socializing agent. Whatever they are (as they sometimes frighten small children, and at least one author assumes that the Tubbies are tormented by them night and day), they are the voice of authority. They announce the birth of the Tubbies, “Time for Teletubbies,” and they announce the death of Tubbies, “Time for Tubby bye-bye. . .” This calling out and putting away of beings is strongly authoritarian and objectifying. Other narrators tell the Tubbies what they must do-- “run away Tinky Winky . . . run away Po!” The Tubbies must live, indeed, in a state of neurosis having to always do what the “voice trumpets” tell them.

By this argument parental authority is also damaging. After all, parents constantly tell their children what to do - pick that up, put that down, no don't do that, time to eat, time to go to bed. How strongly authoritarian and objectifying of them. I'm sorry, but this is just a kind of metaphor for what kids experience every day. They have no concept of time, or what is proper and not proper, until a parent tells them what to do. I'm sure it seems to come out of nowhere. "Time to go to bed" - to go bye-bye - a child has no inkling of how an adult knows this. It is in essence a command out of nowhere, and the voice trumpets depict this. Young children NEED this kind of socialization! It doesn't cause neurosis. If someone didn't tell them what to do when they were very young they would grow up and act about as responsibly as if they were raised by wolves. In fact, it causes children more anxiety and insecurity at this age when there is a LACK of limits and routine.

The lack of understanding of developmental issues in egs such as these tends to destroy my faith in the rest of the arguments. I think sometimes the actual truths about how children learn and respond are being sacrificed in order to present the pet theory more dramatically. I mean, the last link is even flagrantly anti-technological. What next, should I ban my daughter from seeing the computer too, since it might mediate her experience of the world? Of course not, but then I'm not going to let her play with it 12 hours a day or look at porn, either.

And that is the only valuable point in the arguments of the anti-Tubbieites.


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 11 October 2001 08:11 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Audra, I know I`m not supposed to use the word "rowdie" but the story doesn`t make sense without it.

quote:
It`s more apt to be (censored by Audra) because that`s the effect parents describe when the dosage is slightly too high.

This is getting silly, Vaudree. From what I could tell, all Audra asked you to do was to stop quoting long, clinical passages about ADHD in every other thread. That doesn't mean you're censored from saying the word.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 11 October 2001 08:49 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hello, world? Meet Michelle, my new spokesmodel.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 11 October 2001 10:41 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle, Zoot Capri, and machiavellian: Again! Again!

m'boy, how many times a day do you wash your hands? brush your teeth? Do you worry about bacteria growing in the bathroom or the kitchen? everywhere else? how many times a day do you worry about these things? We read elsewhere that you do leave your clean laundry on the closet floor, perhaps a reassuring sign ... But do you have a position on the secret threats to our bodily fluids posed by a socialized water supply? Testing, testing ...


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gayle
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posted 11 October 2001 10:53 AM      Profile for Gayle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks everyone, for not freaking on me. I was thinking about my post after I'd made it and thought it could very easily be construed very badly. Just wanted to clarify that I don't think people who let their kids watch TV are bad parents, not at all at all!

I have seen babies stare blankly at the television, sitting or standing shakily inches from the screen. Mesmerized. Nothing else can get their attention. It's creepy.

Sure, TV is a learning tool, no problem there! I said "distraction" because someone had already mentioned it, is all.

Pobody's Nerfect.

I still think Teletubbies are weird, but if they do the helpful things some people said they do, then hey, whatever works. I'm just not sure they're helpful to a child's development (Sesame Street, however, is pretty damn cool - useful, and educational. I *still* think of Grover when I think of Near and Far! It is, of course, aimed at older children).


From: Cape Breton, Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 11 October 2001 10:56 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Gayle, I hope you didn't see my post as jumping all over you - I tried to make the tone light and use lots of smilies.

I know what you mean - I've been guilty once in a while of taking a mommy-break by sticking a Disney movie in the VCR and taking advantage of the semi-coma that follows for an hour. Something I always swore I'd never do. Sigh.

At least with Blue's Clues, he shows signs of animation, and jumps up and does the actions occasionally.


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 10:58 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
(Sesame Street, however, is pretty damn cool - useful, and educational. I *still* think of Grover when I think of Near and Far! It is, of course, aimed at older children).

I see Teletubbies and Sesame Street as basically having the same problems. The only differences I see between them is that they are for different age groups.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 11 October 2001 11:02 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oops, forgot to mention, Gayle, I don't really buy all of that stuff about the Teletubbies actually influencing a child's development for the better either. I can see that it influences my son, and it's cute to see, but I don't think he's any better off for watching teletubbies than he would have been if he hadn't watched it.

I guess what I mean is, I don't think these programs (any of them) are ways to speed up your child's development. But in moderation I don't think it is actually BAD for them either. I haven't noticed any adverse effects on my son from watching them. But then again, I take him out for a couple of hours every day to play in the playground outside my house too, so while he probably does get a lot more television than is good for him, he also gets lots of physical activity too. I think it gets to be a big problem when parents keep their kids inside almost all the time, and turns the television on to keep the kids from getting antsy (as any normal child would).

[ 24 July 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 11:36 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
*crusty old man mode*

When I have kids, the only entertainment I'm gonna let them have is a piece of steel wool and maybe the Lawrence Welk Show on Sundays. That's how it was in my day, and we liked it!!!

*end crusty old man mode*


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Michelle
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posted 11 October 2001 12:14 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Don't laugh. I was watching some cooking shows later in the afternoon one Saturday, and then I had to go and do something for a little while - probably some housework or whatever. The little one was climbing on the furniture and playing with his blocks and other toys, so he was (relatively) quietly occupied, and the television was still on in the background. I would come back in periodically from what I was doing to check that he was all right.

Well, I was doing the dishes, and I noticed silence coming from the living room. I thought, "uh oh, this doesn't sound good", and went to see what he had gotten himself into.

He was fixated on the Lawrence Welk Show! I couldn't believe it. Thankya thankya. Isn't thata be-yoo-tiful-a musica. Man.

[ 24 July 2004: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 12:37 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
*thread drift mode*

I love PBS cooking shows, but have you ever actually MADE one of those dishes? I can't think of one instance where I've actually bothered. I just like watching the show.

However, I do get ideas from the shows, even if I don't make the dishes that guy on tv does.

I especially like Charlie Trotter.

*end thread drift mode*


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Trinitty
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posted 11 October 2001 01:01 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Drifting in a related direction, M'boy, have you read "No sense of Place?" I own "Amusing ourselves...", but I have to finish Fellowship of the Ring first.

[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: Trinitty ]


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girlincrisis
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posted 11 October 2001 01:47 PM      Profile for girlincrisis     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
unless you're a Quaker or a Ludite (sp?) i think it's rather naive to think that you can keep children from being exposed to television. i watched a lot of tv as a kid...though my parents heavily censored and moderated how much and when. during the summer we weren't allowed to watch as much cuz my mom would kick us outside, saying it was 'too nice' to be inside. i'm glad she did that but i am also glad she let me be exposed to images that actually were far more influential on me than i would have imagined. i got to see women on tv who displayed various possibilities for me as a young girl, rather than accepting the sphere of domesticity (my mother was a 'homemaker') as my only place to be. but that's just my skewed perspective. like Homer says, "tv is my friend".
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Trinitty
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posted 11 October 2001 02:04 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I too watched a lot of TV as a child.

It was cartoons on Saturday mornings, Mr. Dressup weekday mornings and the Dukes of Hazard and the news at night with my parents.

I probably started watching at age three. I have watched TeleTubbies all the way through, four times. I personally disagree with children that young watching television, even if it's "made" for them.


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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 02:06 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I don't recall arguing that children should be kept away from TV altogether. This is specifically about the perceived benefits and risks of the Teletubbies.

Even Postman let his kids watch TV, and he's one of the harshest critics of TV around (he's accused of being a Luddite all the time). But, IIRC, he didn't let them watch Sesame Street, and I'm fairly certain he wouldn't let them watch the Tubbies.

[ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: Kneel before MediaBoy ]


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 11 October 2001 02:12 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
M'boy: Have you read No Sense of Place?
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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 02:28 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Can't say as I have. I've read Technopoly and Amusing Ourselves To Death is sitting on my bookshelf with a bookmark fairly close to the front.

I wanna pick up Building a Bridge to the 18th Century, but I think I have enough books right now.


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girlincrisis
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posted 11 October 2001 02:41 PM      Profile for girlincrisis     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
my comments weren't directed specifically at you MediaBoy..i was just making a general comment pertaining to children and television watching.
i think as far as the Tubbies are concerned it's up to the individual parent's discretion on what they think is appropriate for their children to watch...no one should be able to dictate at what age a child should be allowed to watch television..outside of the familial space...and what you percieve to be the 'benefits' of lack thereof concerning the quality of children's televeision shows like the Tubbies is your opinion, not the general consensus. how do weigh what is 'good' versus 'bad' children's television?

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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 02:51 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
You know, it's kinda funny. At university I used to mock my communications profs who were always so hard on television. Communications profs just LOVE to complain about tv and how it rots the brain, and it really gets tiring after a while

It wasn't until after I graduated that I started to do the same thing.

I'll never turn away from my secret, cathode-ray lover completely, but right now the only one I'm hurting is myself. My parenting resolution will be to NOT have a tv in the living room, and to have a lock on the door of the "tv room", so I can regulate it.

I had a friend whose family kept their tv in the kitchen. If you wanted to watch tv in their house you had to sit at the kitchen table, on very uncomfortable chairs. My buddy was not much of a couch potato, I can assure you.

I, on the other hand, live in an apartment where there's one tv in the living room, a little black and white tv in the bedroom, and I have a tv tuner on my computer as well.

With broadband wireless technology, it will be next to impossible to regulate kids' viewing in the future. Every kid will have a futuristic version of the PalmPilot, and they'll be able to get video from all over the world on it, with no parental supervision.

That scares me.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 11 October 2001 03:20 PM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Every kid will have a futuristic version of the PalmPilot, and they'll be able to get video from all over the world on it, with no parental supervision.

If you give them one M'boy. Be strong. I love your idea of the lock on the TV room door.

When we first got here, we had no tv... for 2 weeks until our household got here. I read 3 books and my head felt SO clear. It's really a stark difference.


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Gayle
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posted 11 October 2001 05:07 PM      Profile for Gayle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As with everything, the answer lies within Moderation. Temperance.
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Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 05:26 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
While I often preach balance and moderation, it isn't always the best policy. I wouldn't recommend snorting cocaine or shooting heroine in moderation, for example.

But that's just me. Plenty of people think moderate use of cocaine and heroine is just fine.


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Dawna Matrix
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posted 11 October 2001 06:10 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Whether we like it or not, TV is our common ground. I wasn't allowed to watch cartoons as soon as I turned six years old. This left me lonely and alienated on the playground. It was just way too uncool to say "What's a Thundercat?"
From: the stage on cloud 9 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 11 October 2001 06:15 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Ah, but think of all the great bonding you can have in adulthood with all the other people who weren't allowed to watch tv when they were kids!
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 11 October 2001 06:25 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
shooting heroine

But you should only shoot the heroine after the hero is dead.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 11 October 2001 06:46 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

It was just way too uncool to say "What's a Thundercat?"

Ahhhhhh Thundercats. I loved that show when I was a kid.


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vaudree
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posted 11 October 2001 09:48 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thunder Cats - I still have the plastic glasses and the nine year old uses them now. How old was that show anyway? As long as we are into retro - I remember when the 20 year old wanted a transformer (the cars/trucks) and now the nine year old wants one too. I just hope they make them better now!
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Michelle
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posted 11 October 2001 10:10 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How is it that people younger AND older than me remember Thundercats, but I've never heard of them? And no, my parents were not the type to ban television - I woke up every Saturday morning at about 6 a.m. and watched cartoons until around 10 or noon. So what on EARTH were Thundercats?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 11 October 2001 10:25 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just be glad you don`t remember "H.R. Puffinstuff" "Lancelot Link Secret Chimp" Colonel Bleep streaking through the sky or "The Fruit loops (I think that`s what they were called)" "Pound Puppies" "Romperroom" or Huckleberry Hound`s singing.

And be thankful you don`t have to listen to "Steve" from blues clues while honeymooning with "PJ Katie" or her pig, whatever the case may be. Though that may be preferable to watching Beavis and Butthead, or their offspring - the Mega Babies.

But I wish they would bring back "You can`t Do That on Televison."


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 11 October 2001 10:31 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I remember Pound Puppies. And Romper Room - why, that's an INSTITUTION! I loved Romper Room when I was a kid - with Miss Fran. "Romper bomper stomper boo...tell me, tell me, tell me, do! Magic mirror, please tell me today, did all my friends have fun at play? I see David and Jenny and Matt and Sarah, and I see you too. And I hope to see all of you tomorrow...here at the Romper Room School!"

Man. I can't believe I still remember that. Of course, my Dad will tell you that the reason I remember it is because I used to watch the kids' shows like Sesame Street and Romper Room until I was much, MUCH older than the target age.

Regarding Steve from Blue's Clues, I do listen to him regularly, and I actually don't mind. I like that show.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 11 October 2001 11:13 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I tape "Kink" and "Oz" for my kids.


But seriously folks.


Teletubbies came after my youngest graduated such shows.

I have fond memories of watching "Sesame Street" with my older two. In fact, we still laugh about the time the Count's bats revolted. "You count all de Counts, and I'll count all de bats!"

I think that was the point about Sesame Street, it was a kids show adults could stand to watch. I really could not sit through "Polka Dot Door" with them, or "Mr. Rogers" for that matter.

As a kid, I remember being an addict of "The Friendly Giant"..... and must also have been a watcher of "Captain Kangaroo"... I recently saw a parody of the falling ping pong ball routine, and damned if it didn't trigger a memory cascade.

Now, don't tell me, I got nothin' to do.


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Debra
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posted 11 October 2001 11:35 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey Tommy what not the Red Shoe Diaries too?

And as long as we're on the nostalia trail does anyone remember when David and Goliath was the only thing on Sunday morning?


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 11 October 2001 11:56 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Steve is the kind of guy you could imagine walking out of the water closet singing:
"I just took a big dump
I just took a big dump
I just took a big dump
And then I wiped my bum"

In the intro to PJ Katies farm, which used to be shown back to back with Blues clues, PJ Katie looks like she is spitting something out, but we never know what. With cable you could end up seeing both shows more times a day than you care to admit and start thinking naughty thoughts as a form of revenge.

I had totally forgot about Captain Kangaroo, but now remember the teacher saying something about "kangaroo court" when the show was still on.


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JCL
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posted 12 October 2001 12:20 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Hey Tommy what not the Red Shoe Diaries too?

I was channel surfing one night and came (no pun intended) across that show. It was opening with Duchovny. I was amazed at how little Duchovny improved from that to the X Files. Next stop for Duchovny, Broadway and in the play A Street Car Named Desire.

quote:

How is it that people younger AND older than me remember Thundercats, but I've never heard of them?

You fell between the cracks of generations. Some were born in the 60s (whatever era that is named, the Flower Power age I guess) then there were us folks born in the 70s, the Unknown Generation. And then there's Generation X. Or to be blunt - where were you when all the generational labels were handed out? *L*

quote:

I remember when the 20 year old wanted a transformer (the cars/trucks) and now the nine year old wants one too. I just hope they make them better now!

Transformers were bloody fun. They kicked ass. One day at work, my co workers and I were pretty bored. So we spent part of the afternoon trying to recall all the names of the Autobots and Decepticons.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 12 October 2001 12:31 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think she was spitting out her blotter paper, since it always seemed to me like PJ Katie was seriously on something. But then again, Sherri Lewis looked like that too. I don't remember a whole lot of Romper Room except for little kids looking up Miss Fran's dress.

Yay Thundercats! I used to watch that every day after school, I think they had it on together with Transformers and GI Joe, one after another. In restrospect, it's too bad Mumra didn't get his way - he was cool.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 October 2001 10:07 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Shari Lewis!

"This is the song that never ends
Cause it goes on and on my friend
Some people started singing it
not knowing what it was
And now they'll keep on singing it
forever just because

This is the song that never ends
Cause it goes on and on my friend..."

"I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves!
Everybody's nerves! Everybody's nerves!
I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves
And the song goes just like this:

I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves!
Everybody's nerves! ..."


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gayle
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posted 12 October 2001 10:22 AM      Profile for Gayle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

While I often preach balance and moderation, it isn't always the best policy. I wouldn't recommend snorting cocaine or shooting heroine in moderation, for example.
But that's just me. Plenty of people think moderate use of cocaine and heroine is just fine.

Ah, but cocaine and heroin aren't moderate anything. If you go by "Use substances moderately," you'll stop at, say, coffee.

Hee. I'm just nitpicking now. But really, I believe that if you use moderation in your life as a whole, you'll end up happy and healthy. With a few spurts of crazy for variety

Wow, off topic much?


From: Cape Breton, Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 12 October 2001 10:34 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
I don't think it's off-topic at all. I consider Teletubbies to be the television equivalent of cocaine.

H.R. Puff'n'stuff! That was a great show. I love all the old Kroft shows. Sigmund the Seamonster, Land of the Lost, Electra-Woman and Dyna-Girl (how progressive!), The Bugaboos. Fine, fine stuff.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 12 October 2001 01:06 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I don't think it's off-topic at all. I consider Teletubbies to be the television equivalent of cocaine.
Better be careful, since cocaine and caffeine are the same family as ritalin (methylphenidate) and T`s & R`s are supposed to resemble heroin, Audra may want you to start a new thread because she thinks ADHD stuff don`t belong in general conversations. But since you brought it up and not me - Didn`t those children on "Barney" look like there were on something - and Michelle (Ashley and Mary Kate) always looked more like she just came back from a taxidermous than she resembled my boys at that age.

Sometime I`ll tell you the poem on Caffeine addiction. Sigmond Freud wrote one in honour of cocaine, but I never read it.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 12 October 2001 01:25 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I`m going to move the last few comments to the "Rat Trap" thread because this is closing soon and it`s just starting to get interesting.

I just want to know which year Burger King put out their Thundercat cups because I still have a couple.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged

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