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» babble   » right brain babble   » culture   » Theatre Censorship In NYC Part 4

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Author Topic: Theatre Censorship In NYC Part 4
mary123
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posted 14 March 2006 02:33 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In the Guardian, the play's director Alan Rickman denounced the decision as "censorship", stating "Rachel Corrie lived in nobody's pocket but her own. Whether one is sympathetic with her or not, her voice is like a clarion in the fog and should be heard."

James Nicola stated "I don't think we were worried about the audience, I think we were more worried that those who had never encountered her writing, never encountered the piece, would be using this as an opportunity to position their arguments."

Strange that he should be worried about people who have never encountered her writing, and so removes the opportunity to let people encounter her writing and decide for themselves. What kind of pressure could Mr. Nicola have faced that would lead to such a decision from a theatre with a history of producing controversial works?

Rachel's mother Cindy wonders, "Why are people so afraid of Rachel's words?" We ask the same question and are determined to give people the opportunity to hear those words.


THE WORLD WIDE ACTION

Over a 24-hour period throughout March 16,the third anniversary of Rachel's death, activists in cities world-wide in a public space reading (with or without a loud-speaker or microphone) Rachel's e-mails and journal entries.

Fliers can be distributed to passers-by encouraging them to ask the question for themselves:

Why are people so frightened of Rachel Corrie's words?

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1805807.php

[ 14 March 2006: Message edited by: mary123 ]


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 14 March 2006 02:37 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Play about activist's death pulled; Iowa aunt saddened
Tensions expressed by New York City Jews cut short the production of "My Name is Rachel Corrie."
MARY CHALLENDER
March 14, 2006

An ongoing controversy involving a critically acclaimed British play and censorship in the New York theater world has a Des Moines connection.


quote:
"My Name is Rachel Corrie," which is based on Corrie's journals and e-mails from the age of 12 or so through her death, offers a third Corrie, one much closer to the fun-loving young woman that Cheryl Brodersen, her aunt in Denison, remembers dancing at a wedding just months before her death.
"The play was just something wonderful for all of us," Brodersen said. "It showed Rachel for the fun, for the human, person she was. Her pain at seeing what was happening in occupied territories flowed as well as her wit. She was a beautiful writer. This play was something that brought hope."


quote:
A 53-year-old nurse at Crawford County Hospital, Brodersen said her niece's death has changed her. A woman who in her previous life would have balked at calling a newspaper about an issue that concerned her, Brodersen is now considering an independent run for the U.S. House of Representatives against Republican Steve King.
"When I get discouraged about all this, when I get discouraged about that play, get discouraged about the silence in Congress, you just remember her standing in front of that bulldozer," Brodersen said. "You're not going to stop. I'm not going to stop."

http://tinyurl.com/jd9lq


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 14 March 2006 02:38 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Eventually I'm sure they will start looking for a new theatre. But based on the success of this group shutting down the first theatre, other theatres will also shut out this play.

The political climate has people in America scared and fearful for expressing judgements against Bush and the republicans.

There is a climate of fear in America. Ask AE our American political commentator. His posts have vividly described the America I am talking about.

But in the mean time the censorship issue of shutting down a theatre production because it goes against the political agenda of certain groups of people in New York is very troubling indeed.

Let the production "My Name Is Rachel Corrie" have one run at least in the theatre that IT WAS SUPPOSED TO RUN IN. Many Broadway and off Broadway productions close after 1 day, I week, I month. This is the way theatre production is supposed to run. "My Name Is Rachel Corrie" was not even given this chance.

The point is censorship. If this group of people have had success in shutting down production of the play because of political interference they will do it again at other theatres. They have had success once against a prestigious theatre company they will easily intimidate other smaller companies.

It's a censorship issue that needs to be dealt with from the source. Finding another theatre company is no guarantee against the bullies who would try to censor it again.

[ 14 March 2006: Message edited by: mary123 ]


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 14 March 2006 02:40 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The esteemed and talented playwright Harold Pinter weighs in on the censoring of the play "I Am Rachel Corrie" in an interview with The Guardian.

Harold Pinter wrote:

quote:
... though I'm alarmed at what has happened to My Name Is Rachel Corrie in New York [the play recently co-edited from Corrie's diaries and letters by Alan Rickman and Guardian features editor Katharine Viner] ... The real fact there, as you know, is that Rachel Corrie was a young American woman who was looking at the Palestinian situation in Israel when one of the bulldozers that was demolishing Palestinian houses ran over and killed her ...

But that play has now been withdrawn by the producing theatre in New York and that is, I think, typical of what is happening more and more in Britain and America: suppression of dissent and the truth.

I'd just point to the example of the prohibition of protest within a certain area outside the Houses of Parliament. One woman walked into this zone and read out the names of British soldiers killed in Iraq of whom at that time there were about 80. She was arrested, fined and now has a criminal record.

What she was actually doing, in reading the names of the British dead outside the Houses of Parliament, was reminding people in Parliament of their ultimate responsibility. So the lid was put on her straight away.


http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1730313,00.html

[ 14 March 2006: Message edited by: mary123 ]


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 14 March 2006 02:42 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
ICAHD: Come on Thursday to a Reading of Rachel Corrie's Words

JERUSALEM, March 13, 2006 (WAFA)- The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions called on public to attend on Thursday a reading of Rachel Corrie's words by ICAHD Advocacy Officer, Angela Godfrey-Goldstein.
The reading, that will take place at ICAHD activists' centre in West Jerusalem, is to commemorate the third anniversary of the US peace activist Rachel Corrie's Murder on March 16, 2003, when an Israeli soldier used a Caterpillar bulldozer to crush to death 23-year old activist while she was protesting the demolition of a home belonging to Samir Nasrallah, a Palestinian physician, in Rafah south of the Gaza Strip.

In a press release, ICAHD said: This is part of worldwide solidarity against indefinite "postponement" of the play "My Name is Rachel Corrie" by the Royal Court Theatre in New York.

The press release added: A multitude of such readings will take place in Basra, Cairo, Montreal, Kosovo, Nigeria, America etc. As of today, 40 groups and over 250 individuals have endorsed the initiative from dozens of cities in countries all over the world, including Austria, Belgium, Canada, Czech Republic, Egypt, France, Iraq, Israel, Italy, Mexico, Nigeria, Palestine, Thailand, UK and USA.


http://english.wafa.ps/bodym.asp?id=5250


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 14 March 2006 11:12 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wonder if this play would be suitable for the Fringe circuit, since it appears to have been blacklisted by mainstream theatres.

Even if it were, though, the Fringes are probably all scheduled already, so the play couldn't be seen this year.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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posted 14 March 2006 11:18 PM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As well as too lengthy (most Fringe Festivals schedule works/performances that are less than 60 minutes long) it has already enjoyed a relatively mainstream run, I believe. The purpose of FF is to give emerging theatre an opportunity to be seen.
From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
FourteenRivers
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posted 15 March 2006 01:16 PM      Profile for FourteenRivers        Edit/Delete Post
Yes, the "Fringe Festivals" are all booked up this year - you must apply well in advance to be considered as a part of the "Fringe", not to mention dishing out hundreds of dollars in "registration fees". This play has already won awards and made international headlines - it certainly can be considered as playable in any major theatre house.

Mary123, thank you for bringing these articles to our attention. In Montreal we are in high gear for our reading of the words. Playwrights Dave Fennario, JC McLean, Cassandra Witteman, etc. are very busy creating the play-text based on all the words out there - both Rachel's words and the words about her words. As of the first draft, I am pleased to announce that both babblers Mr. Magoo & HeywoodFloyd have been tentatively included as characters:

quote:
Rachel’s Words

March 16th Reading – Preliminary Script (in progress)

Optative Theatrical Laboratories


Characters:

Rachel Corrie
James Nicola, Artistic Director, New York Theatre Workshop
Julian Borger, The Guardian
Katharine Viner, The Guardian
thefileroom.org
Edward Rothstein, New York Times
PM Watch Reporter
Jason Grote
Lynn Redgrave
Zohar Tirosh
Kurt Schneiderman, Subversive Theatre Collective, Buffalo, NY
Caridad Svich, resident playwright, New Dramatists, NYC founder, NoPassport
Nigel Parry, freelance journalist
Alan Schrier
Mr. Magoo, Babbler alias, rabble.ca
Heywood Floyd, Babbler alias, rabble.ca
Cindy Corrie
Jen Marlowe and Ann Petter, rachelswords.org
Andrea Liu, THAW
Maysoon Zayid, Palestinian-American comedienne


(The audience enters the café and seats themselves facing a bare stage with a bench in the background and a table at the SL side. A microphone is DSC. The project is introduced to the audience at the appropriate time, and told about the background of the story and the viral global theatre event to get the words heard. It is mentioned that all proceeds go to the Rachel Corrie Fund for Peace and Justice, and that there will be a talkback session after the performance. Several actors seat themselves on the bench. When the performance begins, the actor in charge of the character puts on a costume piece, pair of Optative glasses, or some such V-Effect tool, and plays it into the microphone. The action should be swift.)

The Fileroom.org:

Censorship: Censorship is a word of many meanings. In its broadest sense it refers to suppression of information, ideas, or artistic expression by anyone, whether government officials, church authorities, private pressure groups, or speakers, writers, and artists themselves. It may take place at any point in time, whether before an utterance occurs, prior to its widespread circulation, or by punishment of communicators after dissemination of their messages, so as to deter others from like expression…


Julian Borger, The Guardian:

A New York theatre company has put off plans to stage a play about an American activist killed by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza because of the current "political climate" - a decision the play's British director, Alan Rickman, denounced yesterday as "censorship". James Nicola, the artistic director of the New York Theatre Workshop, said it had never formally announced it would be staging the play, My Name is Rachel Corrie, but it had been considering staging it in March.

James Nicola, NYTW:

In our pre-production planning and our talking around and listening in our communities in New York, what we heard was that after Ariel Sharon's illness and the election of Hamas, we had a very edgy situation

Borger:

Mr. Nicola said

Nicola:

We found that our plan to present a work of art would be seen as us taking a stand in a political conflict that we didn't want to take.

Borger:

He said he had suggested a postponement until next year. Mr Rickman, best known for his film acting roles in Love, Actually and the Harry Potter series and who directed the play at London's Royal Court Theatre, denounced the decision.

Alan Rickman:

I can only guess at the pressures of funding an independent theatre company in New York, but calling this production "postponed" does not disguise the fact that it has been cancelled

Borger:

Mr. Rickman said in a statement.

Rickman:

This is censorship born out of fear, and the New York Theatre Workshop, the Royal Court, New York audiences - all of us are the losers.

Borger:

Rachel Corrie was a 23-year-old activist from Washington state crushed in March 2003 when she put herself between an Israeli army bulldozer and a Palestinian home it was about to demolish in Rafah, on the Egyptian border.
The International Solidarity Movement, of which she was a member, claimed the bulldozer driver ran her over deliberately. The Israeli Defence Forces said it was an accident, and that she was killed by falling debris.
The Israeli government said the demolitions were aimed at creating a "security zone" along the border. The Palestinians say they are a form of collective punishment.

Rickman:

Rachel Corrie lived in nobody's pocket but her own. Whether one is sympathetic with her or not, her voice is like a clarion in the fog and should be heard

Borger:

Mr. Rickman said. My Name is Rachel Corrie consists of her diary entries and emails home, edited by Mr. Rickman and Katharine Viner, features editor of The Guardian. It won the best new play prize at this year's Theatregoers' Choice Awards in London.

Jason Grote:

The long and the short of it is that it's appalling.


Caridad Svich (resident playwright, New Dramatists, NYC founder, NoPassport):

At a time when a climate of fear is insidiously embedded in our culture, it is deeply troubling to witness one of NYC's most adventurous and progressive theatres succumbing to this culture through the postponement of a play that examines the Palestinian side of the Middle East situation through Anglo eyes.


Vanessa Redgrave:

This is censorship of the worst kind. More awful even than that. It is black-listing a dead girl and her diaries. A very brave and exceptional girl who all citizens, whatever their faith or nationality, should be proud and grateful for her existence. They couldn’t silence her voice while she lived, so she was killed. Her voice began to speak again as Alan Rickman read her diaries, and Megan Dodds became Rachel Corrie. Now the New York Theatre Workshop have silenced that dear voice. I shall never forget the glimpse, at the close of Alan Rickman's production, of Rachel when 10 years old, shot on a little family movie camera, making her speech about world poverty and the urgent need to end the misery. The New York Theatre Workshop have silenced that little girl, as well as the girl who confronted the Israeli army Caterpillar bulldozer.

Heywood Floyd, Babbler alias, Rabble.ca:


What censorship? Censorship is traditionally the sole purvue of the state.
This is nothing more than a theater canceling a show, all the protests to the contrary notwithstanding.


Mr. Magoo, Babbler alias, Rabble.ca

In this case, the best analogy would be the stores themselves choosing not to sell certain magazines. Is that "censorship" of those magazines?? If not, then a theatre choosing not to present a play isn't either. If so, I guess my local variety store will be obligated to sell about 10,000 different magazines.

The Fileroom.org:

In its narrower, more legalistic sense, censorship means only the prevention by official government action of the circulation of messages already produced.


Kurt Schneiderman, Subversive Theatre Collective, Buffalo, NY:

In modern-day society, censorship rarely takes the good old fashion form of a government agency declaring something illegal. Nowadays, censorship, primarily comes in the form of private institutions who decide they can't bear the financial, social, or political repercussions of doing what they know is right. When institutions (of any kind) start to fall victim to this mentality, the heads of these organizations need to be held accountable, they need to hear some encouragement, they need to hear some lecturing, and -- yes -- they need to hear some disappointment and some expression of outrage. [...]


Feedback is most welcome, and the play-text should be online soon.


From: Quebec | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 15 March 2006 01:21 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think you mean Vanessa Redgrave, not her sister Lynn, who I believe has tried to ingratiate herself with the powers-that-be and set herself apart from her siblings Vanessa and Colin.

I can't attend as I have another event that night.

Often I feel your Infringement stuff and complaints about the Fringe are nothing but self-promotion, but I agree with you on this.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
brebis noire
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posted 15 March 2006 01:23 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
I think you mean Vanessa Redgrave, not her sister Lynn, who I believe has tried to ingratiate herself with the powers-that-be and set herself apart from her siblings Vanessa and Colin.

That might very well be, since the last time I saw something about/by Lynn Redgrave was in Guideposts mag, a few months ago. Interesting, these family divisions due to politics...


From: Quebec | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 15 March 2006 01:25 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Something all of us can do, right now, is organize readings.
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 15 March 2006 01:41 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by FourteenRivers:
As of the first draft, I am pleased to announce that both babblers Mr. Magoo & HeywoodFloyd have been tentatively included as characters:

Feedback is most welcome, and the play-text should be online soon.


I'm flattered. I'll even act in it should it go to a stage.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
FourteenRivers
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posted 15 March 2006 03:39 PM      Profile for FourteenRivers        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I can't attend as I have another event that night.

Often I feel your Infringement stuff and complaints about the Fringe are nothing but self-promotion, but I agree with you on this.


Too bad you can't make it - even Dave Fennario will be playing a part. As for the infringement, I see it more as an alternative, much like Indymedia or rabble.ca is an alternative to CanWest or CNN. And there's nothing wrong with promoting activist causes.


From: Quebec | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
FourteenRivers
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posted 15 March 2006 07:10 PM      Profile for FourteenRivers        Edit/Delete Post
This just in from famous playwright Tony Kushner:

quote:
Tony Kushner: dissappointed by NYTW
From the New York Observer, March 15:

Kabul Scribe Writes One for the Record

To the Editor:

John Heilpern’s excellent column correctly reports and analyzes the mishandling of My Name Is Rachel Corrie by New York Theater Workshop, which has resulted in the cancellation of its N.Y. premiere, apparently out of fear of political objections to its content [“A Scandal for Our Time: Rachel Corrie Ignites Uproar,” At the Theater, March 13]. I have a long history with the Workshop and great admiration for its artistic director, Jim Nicola, but I am disappointed and disheartened by this decision and have been baffled by the subsequent attempts to justify it.

I am writing to correct an impression conveyed in Mr. Heilpern’s column that my play about Afghanistan, Homebody/Kabul, was twice postponed after Sept. 11, 2001, because of the sensitive nature of the play’s subject. This was absolutely not the case. Homebody/Kabul had been fully cast and was in pre-production before the 9/11 attacks. The play went into rehearsal exactly as planned in early October, opening in early December 2001.

Because I think theater can usefully address itself to politically sensitive subjects, even if I’d been asked, I would not have agreed to a postponement. To his credit, Jim Nicola never asked.

Tony Kushner
Manhattan


Also, the list of global readings is up. Truly, I'm glad to say, a global event...

[ 15 March 2006: Message edited by: FourteenRivers ]


From: Quebec | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
FourteenRivers
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posted 15 March 2006 07:31 PM      Profile for FourteenRivers        Edit/Delete Post
Please FWD & REPOST widely, and please consider your own reading, no matter how small (eg: even friends reading in a living room is fine!)...

quote:
From: Rachel's Words

RACHEL'S WORDS UPDATE March 14, 2006

MARCH 16: The countdown is on for the March 16 readings and actions. If there isn't a reading/action around Rachel's Words planned in your city, it's not too late. So far, we are aware of 45 readings/actions taking place in 42 cities in 13 countries. Rachel's Words can be
heard even more widely. Please consider planning a reading and letting us know about it. "Living Room" readings count also---a few friends sitting around a kitchen table reading and talking about
Rachel's emails. Let us know at [email protected] what you have planned, when and where and contact info if it's a public event. Put MARCH 16 in the title of the email. Send photos or video of the event to [email protected] so we can use it for the March 22 event. (ground mail address to overnight it is on the website)
Check our website at www.rachelswords.org for updated information on where readings/actions are happening.

SAVE THE DATE AND SPREAD THE WORD!
MARCH 22 7:30--RACHEL'S WORDS EVENT AT THE RIVERSIDE CHURCH:
We are thrilled to announce that Amy Goodman from Democracy Now! is hosting the Rachel's Words event! The current line up includes Maysoon Zayid, Kia Corthron, Malachy McCourt, Liz Magnes, Laila Buck, Denis O'Hare, Betty Shamieh, Brian Jones, Jonathan Tasini , Anthony Arnove, and Leonard Hubbard. Appearing via video will be Eve Ensler, Najla and Mariam Said, and Kathleen Chalfant. Also in attendance and speaking will be Brian Avery and Cindy and Craig Corrie. We are
awaiting confirmation from many more who have expressed interest.

Visit www.rachelswords.org regularly for updates!!! Tickets for the event can be purchased through our website at www.rachelswords.org

ENDORSORS:
84 groups and over 400 individuals have already endorsed this initative. We want thousands world-wide. If you or your organization hasn't already endorsed, send an email to [email protected] and put ENDORSMENT in the title.

SUPPORT:
Many of you have expressed your support for this initiative and asked how you can help. Now is the time when your help is needed. We need funds—and we need them fast—for the March 22 event. Please visit www.rachelswords.org to help support the Rachel's Words initiative.

WEBSITE: If you haven't in a few days, visit www.rachelswords.org. We are posting updates and new information as fast as we can—because
things keep changing fast.

Thank you!!!

Rachel's Words
Ann Petter, David Reed, Jen Marlowe, Sally Eberhardt, Tom Wallace

Rachel's Words
www.RachelsWords.org
[email protected]



From: Quebec | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
FourteenRivers
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posted 16 March 2006 03:54 AM      Profile for FourteenRivers        Edit/Delete Post
Here are some of Rachel's words, aged ten:

quote:
I’m here for other children.
I’m here because I care.
I’m here because children everywhere are suffering and because forty thousand people die each day from hunger.
I’m here because those people are mostly children.
We have got to understand that the poor are all around us and we are ignoring them.
We have got to understand that these deaths are preventable.
We have got to understand that people in third world countries think and care and smile and cry just like us.
We have got to understand that they dream our dreams and we dream theirs.
We have got to understand that they are us. We are them.
My dream is to stop hunger by the year 2000.
My dream is to give the poor a chance.
My dream is to save the 40,000 people who die each day.
My dream can and will come true if we all look into the future and see the light that shines there.
If we ignore hunger, that light will go out.
If we all help and work together, it will grow and burn free with the potential of tomorrow.

– Rachel Corrie, aged ten, recorded at her school’s Fifth Grade Press Conference on World Hunger



From: Quebec | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 16 March 2006 04:43 AM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks.

It is great to read Rachel Corrie's words as a young child.

I look forward to reading more of her words and getting to know who she was.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 16 March 2006 03:08 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
March 16 TODAY Readings of Rachel Corrie

In Canada - Montreal and Toronto

Montreal
Location: Les Artistes du Toc Toc (6091 Ave du Parc)
Date: Thursday, March 16th
Time: 8pm
Optative Theatrical Laboratories (www.optative.net) invites you to come hear Rachel’s Words
Experimental performance artist and Ontario native Cassandra Witteman’s Rachel will be confronted with a cacophony of words about her words – words transposed directly from reality, in this case the frenzied people passionately debating this censorship case.
Cost: pay-what-you-can, with all proceeds being donated to The Rachel Corrie Foundation for Peace and Justice.
Contact: C McLean (514) 583-3378 or e-mail [email protected]

Toronto, Canada
7:30 pm
60 Lowther Ave. Toronto,
‘Honouring Peacemakers’ circle
Reading Rachel’s words, Tom Fox’s words,
Website: Quaker Peace & Social Action


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 16 March 2006 03:19 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah I see that Tom Fox was the Quaker peacemaker recently killed in Iraq. I was thinking of Tom Hurndall
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
FourteenRivers
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posted 17 March 2006 03:29 AM      Profile for FourteenRivers        Edit/Delete Post
The reading went very well - we met a lot of activists in Montreal including Plaestinian refugees and Jewish people against the occupation. I am very happy to say that we also raised over $200 for the Rachel Corrie Foundation for Peace and Justice!
From: Quebec | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
FourteenRivers
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posted 21 March 2006 03:20 AM      Profile for FourteenRivers        Edit/Delete Post
Many thanks again to babblers Mr. Magoo & HeywoodFloyd for providing dramaturgical fodder for this activist theatre project. I am always amazed at the amount of performance activism in Canada that is iniatiated right here on this activist theatre board. In any case, the final script is available online here.

[ 21 March 2006: Message edited by: FourteenRivers ]


From: Quebec | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
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posted 21 March 2006 04:18 AM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey, how come MY posts aren't included in that little script of yours?! Goddam censorship!

[ 21 March 2006: Message edited by: voice of the damned ]


From: Asia | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 21 March 2006 05:09 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Me too! I thought my: "Fuck you you fuckin moron," line was classic, especially when applied to the debate, at the level that the debate was taking place on.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 21 March 2006 07:54 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by FourteenRivers:
Many thanks again to babblers Mr. Magoo & HeywoodFloyd for providing dramaturgical fodder for this activist theatre project. I am always amazed at the amount of performance activism in Canada that is iniatiated right here on this activist theatre board. In any case, the final script is available online here.

You're trolling, you're being a jerk, and you've been banned under many aliases before. Three good reasons to lock yet another of your many accounts.

[ 21 March 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 21 March 2006 08:05 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:

I'm flattered. I'll even act in it should it go to a stage.


And I'll go see it, assuming Magoo is acting out one of his sizzle podcasts and you play the dish of the day.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
goyanamasu
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12173

posted 21 March 2006 08:18 AM      Profile for goyanamasu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cueball: Maybe your words can make it into something theatrical soon. The Anarchist Theatre Festival is coming to Montreal for its first annual fling at the Salla Rosa on May 8 & 9, 2006.

[Uncalled for Cuteness]I will see to it that theatre people with presentations in the final stages see your brilliant quips or anybody else's if they are simply too rich to be ignored.[/Uncalled for Cuteness]

Red Emma, by Howard Zinn will be opening as a satellite production 24 & 25 May following the Anarchist Book Fair

But [Seriously]if anyone wants to be involved as a volunteer or actor, there is a call-out circulating and all are welcome[/Seriously].

Participants in the Montreal reading on March 16 might be particularly interested in participating. I went to workshops held during last year's Anarchist Book Fair and found that there was a great deal of discussion from different perspectives about important, realtime issues playing out in Montreal, Canada and the world.

I was also told that it is not too late to submit a request to read text during poetry and spoken word events happening at the time of the May gathering of the tribes here in Montreal.


From: End Arbitrary Management Style Now | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
ZugonZork
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12298

posted 21 March 2006 01:09 PM      Profile for ZugonZork        Edit/Delete Post
That sounds really cool! I am in Montreal right now and came to this board after seeing the Rachel's Words project, where a young lady on the stage announced that babble is a good place to go for activist discussion. I hadn't heard of the Anarchist Theatre Festival, but look forward to hearing more and hopefully seeing some shows. I must confess that I am an anarchist at heart.
From: Planet Earth | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 21 March 2006 01:17 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Gee, it's a shame you had to miss meeting Fourteen Rivers, who was just banned about 8 hours ago, right before you got here. He's also from Montreal. And he also likes theatre. And he's also a bit of an anarchist. You two could have been like two peas in a pod.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 21 March 2006 01:21 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reality. Bites.:

And I'll go see it, assuming Magoo is acting out one of his sizzle podcasts and you play the dish of the day.


Hey, we all know I'm the sizzling dish of your day.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
goyanamasu
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12173

posted 21 March 2006 01:29 PM      Profile for goyanamasu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr. Magoo: sorry to hear someone was banned. But ZugonZork, don't jump to conclusions. Nobody is pushing one hard line against another as far as I know.

This is about theatre, right? Well anarchist, Trotskyist, M-L can rally around a few cultural breaks from the mainstream as well as a few icons like Berolt Brecht as far as I know. Most people around here, now anti-global neo-con to boot, are a bit of all three around here.

ZugonZork, look for the call-out for volunteers. I'll post one here when I see it along with background I find on Rachel Corrie if it hasn't already been covered.


From: End Arbitrary Management Style Now | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
ZugonZork
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12298

posted 21 March 2006 01:56 PM      Profile for ZugonZork        Edit/Delete Post
Thanks!
From: Planet Earth | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
goyanamasu
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12173

posted 21 March 2006 02:29 PM      Profile for goyanamasu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't want to open what I regard as a shallow dialogue between three or four babblers over what is censorship and what the New York Theatre Workshop did to the Rachel Corrie production.

What strikes me is that it is great that theatre is agitated over what is contemporary and that contemporary also means that theatre people mounted production around the globe inside of a month to support the play-reading.

Some people may think that contemporary should be the litmus test of théatre engagé. Well Rachel Corrie did not just pop up out of nowhere. That is why what she wrote at age ten is part of the production. She was raised in a milieu, one that rejects genocidal attacks on any people in the name of any cause.

The Anarchist Theatre Festival will be welcoming a playwright who has written a piece about the Haymarket Square framing of Chicago workers over a century ago. Later in May, there will be a piece about Emma Goldman. One well imagines that the narrative will bring the past up to the present. But I feel that whether the works do or don't make things contemporary that there are traditions of struggle that have been passed down and that Rachel Corrie proves it.

What I find odd is that monuments, whether, as they do in Chicago with one for the police and the other for the worker-martyrs, or are completely fake as is the planting of trees in the Israeli settlements where Palestinian orchards have been chopped down, that these monuments and memorials do not have voices. Only a written and spoken narrative can give them a voice.

For theatre IMHO part of the challenge is to give voice to the past and part of it is to speak in the present tense. What was presented in Montreal, we have the text in this and the previous threads, was a combination of voicing the nearly instantaneous (what babblers posted a few weeks ago), Corrie's death three years ago, and the perversion that Zionism has become over the past five quarters of a century.


From: End Arbitrary Management Style Now | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 21 March 2006 02:32 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:

Hey, we all know I'm the sizzling dish of your day.


But you'd be so much more sizzling slice, diced and browning in a wok.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 21 March 2006 02:46 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I know you picture me browning under a sizzling Mexican sun, sour-cream loaded burrito in hand.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
ZugonZork
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12298

posted 21 March 2006 02:49 PM      Profile for ZugonZork        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What was presented in Montreal, we have the text in this and the previous threads, was a combination of voicing the nearly instantaneous (what babblers posted a few weeks ago), Corrie's death three years ago, and the perversion that Zionism has become over the past five quarters of a century.

Yes, I quite liked the text - it read very well at the Cafe Toc Toc. I think in England they call it "verbatim theatre" - or theatre taken word for word from actual situations. I guess you could call it "documentary theatre" or even "reality theatre" (which sure beats Reality TV!) I would love to see that play about the Haymarket in Chicago. It is true that in many cases authorities refuse to acknowledge the significance of history in one place (think of Congo Square in New Orleans - oops - make that the white-washed "Jackson Square" where Bush made his speech post-Katrina. No mention in the "official history" that it was in fact a horrific slave market in the day). It is up to artists to expose the truth behind these pathetic cover-ups.


From: Planet Earth | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mudd
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9770

posted 21 March 2006 02:51 PM      Profile for Mudd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The script that Fourteenrivers linked to is great! It really shows the madness surrounding the censorship of this work.

The only complaint I have is that some of the more progressive voices on Babble who understand what censorship like this means and voiced it in this and the previous threads (on the same subject) aren't heard from.

Instead, babble is represented in the discourse by Mr. Magoo and HeywoodFloyd, whose stance makes us babblers look like a bunch of neo-cons who don't see the relevance of the community using culture to speak out against the censoring of a dead girl's words.

I guess, though, when you've got people like Harold Pinter and many others arguing eloquently against this censorship, there's enough good material already to choose from.

Funny, though, to see some babblers discussing the issue with Vanessa Redgrave and others.

[ 21 March 2006: Message edited by: Mudd ]


From: On-Scary-Oh | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 21 March 2006 02:57 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mudd, how can you have a Montréal postal code and live in Onscario?

I agree with theatrical activism, and think the reading of Rachel's Words was a positive event on our local arts scene. But I don't like spamming or playing with this board - whoever does it.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 21 March 2006 03:09 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mudd:
The only complaint I have is that some of the more progressive voices on Babble who understand what censorship like this means and voiced it in this and the previous threads (on the same subject) aren't heard from.

Instead, babble is represented in the discourse by Mr. Magoo and HeywoodFloyd, whose stance makes us babblers look like a bunch of neo-cons who don't see the relevance of the community using culture to speak out against the censoring of a dead girl's words.


So, at post #28 over all and post #1 on any Rachel Corrie subject, you chose to complain about people who understand that calling something censorship doesn't mean that it really is.

I guess you should next start a play of other people's words on why you censored youself on the Rachel Corrie story.

I will take the part of the antagonist who shows you that you didn't censor yourself as you really just didn't have anything to say.

Follow that by an "otherswords" play on why Babblers censored themselves because your soapbox-du-jour didn't get the discussion that you believed it should even though you didn't bother to stand on the soapbox at all. We'll call it "Someone, say something".


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 21 March 2006 03:15 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
I know you picture me browning under a sizzling Mexican sun, sour-cream loaded burrito in hand.

No, more like under a sizzling Arizona sun, tied to an anthill.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 21 March 2006 03:22 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is that what the community is calling the breadbasket now? The anthill? Strange.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
goyanamasu
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12173

posted 21 March 2006 03:50 PM      Profile for goyanamasu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
lagatta posted:
quote:
I agree with theatrical activism, and think the reading of Rachel's Words was a positive event on our local arts scene. But I don't like spamming or playing with this board - whoever does it.

Other than what we see you and Michelle posting, all the people reading this thread are left reading between the lines to figure out what you mean by 'spamming' and 'playing with this board'.

What I think I read between the lines is that the babbler at issue did something more than just post alot of text in apparent enthusiasm for a theatre project and cause he or she was involved in.

Mudd indicated that publicly the babble name was associated with opinions we don't all share. That took me back. I don't like it. But I do not believe this has anything to do with lagatta's allusions to outright abuse of rights and privileges for members.

Could someone clarify the point at which a babbler is a spammer or is playing with the board abusively?


From: End Arbitrary Management Style Now | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 21 March 2006 04:11 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Could someone clarify the point at which a babbler is a spammer or is playing with the board abusively?

Getting banned and coming back under a plethora of pretend names would be a start. And also, pretending that doing so is a noble act of "theatre", rather than sock-puppetry. That would certainly be playing with the board.

If you're turfed, stay turfed. Don't come back where you're clearly not wanted.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8238

posted 21 March 2006 04:14 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Goyanamasu -- there's a bit of a history here. As Michelle mentioned, it includes a person or group of people who keep returning to the board using new names after being banned from posting.

I will give them credit for the way they keep other people here dancing around the same mulberry bush. It's a skill of sorts, in the same sense that coming up with those colourful spam-email-sender names and subject lines (e.g., "Phar Amacy News" by Bootlegging T. Mustard) is a skill. They like messing with people's minds, which can be fun up to a point, but they also have a bit of a bullying streak.

Here are links to a couple of discussions from last year which I made the mistake of getting involved in. They rank as the ugliest experiences I've had on Babble so far, although I admit that I'm now embarrassed by some of my comments there, which helped make already unproductive discussions even nastier in tone.

Link one

Link two

[ 21 March 2006: Message edited by: Yossarian ]


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 21 March 2006 04:36 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I will give them credit for the way they keep other people here dancing around the same mulberry bush.

It's more like you've got a mosquito in your tent, so you toss it out, then it comes back, so you toss it out again, and so on.

At a certain point the sock puppetry strains plausibility to the breaking point. I mean, we're just supposed to believe that every time we ban a sock puppet, along comes some new theatre-loving, activist-loving, Montreal-living brand new babbler?

Always with the same "Gee whiz, that theatre-activism stuff you're talking about sounds real keen!"?

Always from Montreal?

Always totally "Who, moi?" about it all?

The only fun thing about it is that the original thread always gets buried under the denials and the lying and the pretending, and eventually if you google for the topic you get a page that basically makes a certain set of Montreal theatre activists look like juvenile, dishonest pranksters with multiple personalities.

So if the sock puppets are up for it, let's go 'round the mulberry bush and see if we can change the google rankings for "Rachel Corrie".


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
mary123
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6125

posted 21 March 2006 05:03 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Take any complaints any of you might have to Michelle.

Please don't post your complaints on this particular thread.


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 21 March 2006 05:11 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who is complaining?
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
goyanamasu
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12173

posted 21 March 2006 05:54 PM      Profile for goyanamasu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yossarian: Thanks for the two links. I scanned through both of them. It sets the context for reading Magoo's take on it, again, right below.

Unfortunately, I guess, I don't totally share the binary view that lumps together a theme like Montreal alternative theatre, a point of view like 'isn't all this soo exciting' and a conviction that Internet forums are merely virtual morality plays or puppet shows.

Now, though, the usernames inside babble have been bantied about out there in alt-theatre-mtl land so the tendencies to divide the world into us and them is probably increased 10-fold. Too bad.

Isn't it impossible to separate the chaff from the wheat when the majority accuses one person of harping on and on without changing a bit ON TOP OF being totally loyal to a creep who deserves to be tossed off the board for good reason? I think a goodly number of real people I like quite a bit can harp on and on. And loyalty to a friend, esp. a bad one, is probably incurable.

There's the chaff and the wheat problem. I think it is unacceptably opportunistic to abandon a friend (even a creepy one) so that you can harp on and on the way a female persona did in the threads Yossarian linked to -- and she started to meld into he with this loyalty. Sad, I know. But I could have tolerated her, not the other one simply because he was running unpaid ads on the board. (Go read or reread the threads if this is losing you.)

It is unfortunate that Montreal theatre and performance is a theme that then and know is such a double-edged sword for babble. I announced that I would post a call-out (not an ad) for the Anarchist Theatre Festival. Now I am put on notice, the way I'm reading it, that this is not welcome here. At least if I had gone through THAT it would look suspect to me. But I didn't go through it.

Finally I think that babblers, esp. regulars, can grow too confident about their own legitimacy as warm bodies behind the keyboards. Yet I see words themselves as a problem for all warm bodies communicating with one another -- a universal problem. Others don't see this or think the philo-semiotic framing of it is a load of crap. So what I fear is the element of consensus and ostracizing: three strikes and you're out. What I really fear is two strike PLUS loyalty to a babbler who truly abuses the forum / board and you are out (again, read esp. April's comments in Yossarian's links above to follow my meaning).

Thanks again Yossarian. BTW, I'm reading your author, Joseph Heller (who invented a persona also named Yossarian in Catch 22). The novel is Good as Gold and is also very funny and twisted. (I've linked to an essay about it at random.)


From: End Arbitrary Management Style Now | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
goyanamasu
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12173

posted 21 March 2006 06:04 PM      Profile for goyanamasu     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
mary123 -- my apologies for dredging up this thing about conflicts with alternative theatre people in the past. I just couldn't respond to what is coming down in this thread as noise and interference and respond to longterm babblers on any other thread.

What you, mary123, have already posted about Rachel Corrie and her family was interesting. I hope the discussion goes on-topic.

To this end, anybody who wants to send me a personal message (shorter than mine, hopefully) is welcome to use personal mail.

I'm almost tempted to go back and erase my last post since I agree that the Rachel Corrie story is bigger than all this I got into just now.


From: End Arbitrary Management Style Now | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 21 March 2006 06:29 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What I really fear is two strike PLUS loyalty to a babbler who truly abuses the forum / board and you are out

I don't think babble would ever consider turfing someone simply because they support, or like, someone who's been turfed.

The problem in this case is that the former babbler in question had a well-established habit of reappearing under various names. Since this former babbler, like any of us, could also visit an internet cafe or borrow a friend's laptop, all we've had to go on to suss out this behaviour is heuristics. What is it that they say, and how do they behave? Are they saying things that are very similar to former babblers? Are they from the same geographical area? And so on.

So it's not that April (or any others on that thread) were expelled for liking someone. They were expelled because in all possibly likelihood, they WERE that someone.

So ya, one former babbler, by being a giant dick, has managed to pretty much ruin any thread that involves Montreal, theatre and activism. There's no doubt in my mind that he's reading this thread, should you wish to thank him.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 21 March 2006 07:20 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I also find this a pity precisely because I'm interested in activist and other political theatre, and have been involved with it in the past. Moreover, I know some of the people who took part in the Rachel Corrie's Words reading, and certainly would have attended had I not had another meeting that night.

mary123's posts were excellent, and I'm pleased to find myself agreeing with her on this.

And I certainly hope to attend anarchist theatre events in the context of the Anarchist Book Fair.

It is simply unfortunate that activist theatre has become such an ego trip for a certain ex-babbler who seems to derive some perverse pleasure with playing with this board and the people who take part in it.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 21 March 2006 10:10 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Looks like ZugonZork just magically, coincidentally, inexplicably had the same IP address as the recently tossed FourteenRivers.

Just in case anyone's scratching their head over all of this. That's what I'm talking about.

And tomorrow some newbie will wander in and say "Oh, Gosh, this is all so new and interesting... tell me, the new guy, more about this "activist theatre" you speak of!". And guess what his IP address will be. Yup. Now you know.

A savvy babbler, who I'll be happy to credit, pointed out to me that if you do a quick google for "Donovan King" and ZugonZork's listed postal code ("H9R 1V5") you get the following:

Whattya know! The coincidence is astounding, eh? What's the chances that both FourteenRivers AND ZugonZork just both happen to live with Donovan King?

[Edited by Michelle - sorry Magoo, but I don't feel comfortable with you publishing someone's mailing address on babble, even if it's easy to find by google. People can make the connection themselves if they wish.]

[ 21 March 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 21 March 2006 10:10 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Magoo is right. If you read those past couple of threads, you can see just a small sample of how whatever group of morons is behind all these new aliases they come up with manage to disrupt this board, and pull a lot of really nasty shit here. And usually you can tell it's them when they start their self-involved masturbation sessions involving the inFringement festival or Optative Fuckity-fuck crap or whatever.

They were a truly toxic presence here. They have admitted in the past that they're just here to fuck around with the community and trade accounts with each other and basically abuse everyone's trust and use babble for free googlebombing. Basically, they're a bunch of fucknuts and I'm really sick of them thinking they can come on babble and screw around with everyone at will. They really piss me off. They really pissed Audra off.

They are not welcome back ever again on this board because they've had so many "second chances" with their many accounts, and fucked around on here so badly that they are permanently banned. And whenever I notice that it's one of them, or they start linking to their Optative Moron bullshit, I'm going to ban their accounts. I've well and truly had it.

mary123, I agree that with you that it is a real shame this thread got disrupted. You can see for yourself who disrupted it first - it was FourteenRivers trolling Magoo and Heywood.

And since I don't think this is going to get back on track, I am going to close this one, and encourage you to start another one if you wish to discuss this important issue. I'm sorry this one didn't go so well. I see that you really made a good effort when you started it, and would like to thank you for that. I hope the next one goes better.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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