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Author Topic: Matrix reloaded sux: critics
rasmus
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posted 14 May 2003 11:05 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Matrix reheated: Triumph of The Machine -- Geoff Pevere

quote:

While it is both naive and unfair to expect lightning to strike terrain this fertile twice, the most distressing thing about the reloading of The Matrix is just how much it feels like The Phantom Menace, right down to the excess of strikingly obvious passages of digital cartoonery and sequences of sombre elder officials sitting around in large rooms exchanging lumpy chunks of portentous dialogue.

Even the plot, which involves Neo attempting to pre-empt an attack on the underground rebel city of Zion by the forces of the Matrix ("The Machines are digging," intones Fishburne's Morpheus), feels like something previously experienced not so long ago in a galaxy far, far away.

While it was to be expected that any sequel to the out-of-nowhere event that was The Matrix would have its moments of depleted inspiration, who would have guessed the Wachowskis would actually put words like "Are you doubting my command, Captain?" in the mouths of their characters? And what - besides a thousand other generic action movies - could have prepared us for the response of the dreadlocked bridge techie Link (Harold Perrineau) when Neo executes a particularly close-shave act of derring-do: "Yessssssss!" With the downward fistpump yet.

In terms of replicating what was easily the most arresting concept at work in the first movie (i.e., the revelation that the "real world" was just a program several billion stupefied souls were plugged into), The Matrix Reloaded might at least have focused on more of the kinds of reality-check jolts Neo went through in the first film - people realizing that they're living one big download.

But instead of exploiting the unsettling ruptures between virtual and actual realities that gave the first movie its conceptual drive, the sequel practically foregoes the realm of bogus perceived reality altogether.

Instead, it takes place almost entirely in lavishly articulated digital environments like the rebel city of Zion - an underground jungle Eden that looks like Yoda's old neighbourhood - where depersonalized casts of cartoon thousands cheer on the stuffy speechifying of Laurence Fishburne's grimly Jedified Morpheus. And what's to be said about a movie about the struggle for the human soul that has practically no people in it?

[...]

For all its talk about choice and the power of "why" - Morpheus: "Why is the only real source of power" - this is a movie about having no real choice at all. It's a lesson in the commercial tyranny of the Machine.

It doesn't want you to rise up against technological power, it wants you to sit back and be bludgeoned by it.



NY Times: The action sequences are viciously elegant, but there is a dispiriting more-of-the-same aspect to the first "Matrix" sequel.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 14 May 2003 11:41 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One thing I've learned is that my enjoyment of movies is diametrically opposite that of the degree to which critics slam a movie.

So I believe I will enjoy that movie.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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posted 15 May 2003 12:01 AM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A Matrix movie sucks?

Blasphemy! Blasphemy!

[ 15 May 2003: Message edited by: SamL ]


From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 15 May 2003 12:29 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not a pan! I've been looking forward to this movie for months now!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 15 May 2003 01:15 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i believe, my faith in the One cannot be shaken. never mind this census jedi worship ... any religion that necessites me dressing up in skin-tight black PVC body armour is fine by me.
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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posted 15 May 2003 01:35 AM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have not been looking forward to this movie for months now, which is why I might enjoy it. If I had been looking forward to it, it would be guaranteed to disappoint. I have discovered that is a life-rule for me.
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 15 May 2003 02:02 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I learned a long time ago that critics are probably the worst judges of real quality.

With or without their approval, I will be trying to get tickets as soon as I can


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 15 May 2003 02:02 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why IS the only real source of power.

Oh well, at least it will have Trinity. Yum.


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clockwork
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posted 15 May 2003 05:26 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Screw that (about the critics dumping on the Matirix). I never saw number II, so I could be possibly (but only possibly) talking out of my ass… but I saw the original… so much potential squandered. The first half lead up to an interesting story but failed miserably. eXistence was better movie, philosophy wise.

And, really, I can't see sequels going uphill from the original.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 15 May 2003 08:02 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Matrix Reloaded might be a good renter.

There is a movie, just released on DVD, that is what The Matrix could have been if it had a director, actors, a script, etc... called Equilibrium. The studio that made it didn't have a clue what it had and barely released the movie in North America. But its miraculously out on DVD this week.

[ 15 May 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]

[ 15 May 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alix
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posted 15 May 2003 09:41 AM      Profile for Alix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have tickets for tonight, and I'm looking forward to it. I think Geoff Pevere is a snotty ass in general anyway - he always slams nerd movies. It's almost like he needs to prove his nerd cred by ripping apart popular stuff.

And Ebert gave it 3 and 1/2 out of 4.


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Dr. Mr. Ben
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posted 15 May 2003 10:43 AM      Profile for Dr. Mr. Ben   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Everyone should go watch A Mighty Wind instead. That is all.
From: Mechaslovakia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
glennB
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posted 15 May 2003 10:53 AM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
And Ebert gave it 3 and 1/2 out of 4.

Wait...I always thought it was out of FIVE, not fOUR.

Anyone know for sure?


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 15 May 2003 11:00 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i think that there should be some sort of "mighty wind vs the matrix" showdown,

mitch+mickey vs neo+trinity.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 15 May 2003 11:16 AM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Was the first Matrix even that good ?

Go see City of God if you can...


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Alix
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posted 15 May 2003 11:20 AM      Profile for Alix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, Ebert's scale is positively out of 4, not out of 5. I've been reading his reviews for years.

I've already seen A Mighty Wind, and agree that it's a great movie. I really enjoyed it and think everyone should go see it.

I hope to see City of God next week, if it's still here (this is Kingston, after all)

None of this means I can't also go see Matrix: Reloaded and thoroughly enjoy that TOO!


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Dr. Mr. Ben
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posted 15 May 2003 11:22 AM      Profile for Dr. Mr. Ben   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
City of God is at the Screening Room at least until next Thursday.
From: Mechaslovakia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alix
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posted 15 May 2003 11:27 AM      Profile for Alix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know that That's why I said I hope it's around next week, since Matrix Reloaded will be the second movie I've seen this week, and I don't have the money for a third.
From: Kingston | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 15 May 2003 11:36 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I presume no one at the time of their posting had seen the movie yet, but I find it odd to dismiss "critics" in general, as if they were a homogeneous group, and not respond to Pevere's criticisms in particular. Pevere actually liked the first Matrix film. And his criticisms of this one are compelling enough for me to wait for the video/download/DVD/PPV.

I find good criticism, which is, admittedly, very rare, to be a very valuable contribution to my enjoyment of film. I rarely agree with critics, but if they're smart they give you something to dialogue with. I don't necessarily think Pevere is a great critic, but he scores some hits with this review.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alix
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posted 15 May 2003 11:45 AM      Profile for Alix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My beef is specifically with Geoff Pevere, who, as I said, comes across in his reviews as a snotty ass. I really do find that he is one of those people who has a need to hate anything popular, because somehow by doing so, he proves how much more intelligent he is than anyone else.

As a general rule, I like Ebert. Don't always agree with him, but I respect his reviews. One of the things that pleases me most about him is that if a movie is just big dumb fun, he'll say so, and admit he liked it. He doesn't necessarily feel a need to run down a movie just because it isn't the most intellectual thing to come down the drainpipe. His review of "The Mummy" is what specifically comes to mind.

However, hope for everyone else! The critics DO like the Matrix Reloaded. Rottentomatoes.com (a compilation of lots of legit reviewers) pegs it at 76% of critics have given it favourable reviews


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Sisyphus
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posted 15 May 2003 02:01 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
As a general rule, I like Ebert. Don't always agree with him, but I respect his reviews

I couldn't agree more. I can almost always tell whether or not I'll like a movie after I read one of his reviews, even if he's describing a movie that he hated but I'll like, or vice-versa. I think his review of Insomnia is the best movie review I've ever read from a mainstream critic. (Though IMO nobody trashes a movie better than the CBC's Robert Lafontaine.)

As to The Matrix, pah, nothing special there. In that genre, the grown-up version is the infinitely superior Dark City.


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alix
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posted 15 May 2003 02:14 PM      Profile for Alix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you want bad reviews, you should pick up Ebert's "I Hated, Hated, Hated, Hated, Hated This Movie" - he's hilarious when he's trashing something really bad. (I may have the number of "hated"'s wrong)

And I agree that Dark City is better than the Matrix. It absolutely blew me away. However, that still doesn't mean I can't love the Matrix as well.


From: Kingston | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 15 May 2003 06:31 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Geoff Pevere. He's the guy who gave Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes 5 stars and then took 'em all back a week later when he actually saw the stinking piece of poo, isn't he?
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 15 May 2003 06:33 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whaaaaat ?

He gave a movie 5 stars without seeing it ?

Didn't he have to resign when that came out ?


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 15 May 2003 06:41 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Story

Never mind. I looked it up myself.

He did see the movie before his first review, but changed his mind about his rating after seeing it a second time.


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Alix
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posted 16 May 2003 09:49 AM      Profile for Alix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it.

Geoff Pevere is a stinky twit.

The visuals were, of course, amazing, jaw-dropping, etc. What surprised me was how much I enjoyed the story! Completely and totally sucked me in and provoked metaphysical discussions afterwards.

It does start a little slow, but man, does it ever pick up. If you're mythologically minded, like me, you'll be wishing for a pad of paper and a light to make note of ALL the allusions in this movie - I'm going to have to see it again, check the cast list on the IMDB and probably freeze-frame stuff on DVD to get and make sense of them all.

Love the Wachowski Brothers. I was a little wary of seeing the first Matrix on opening night because I don't like Keanu Reeves, but the fact that I loved Bound ended up outweighing that.

One note - if you sit through all the credits, there is a teaser trailer for Matrix Revolutions at the end. Takes a while, though.


From: Kingston | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 16 May 2003 09:51 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My friends saw it and said it was mediocre -- a good superhero movie at best, but not up to the original. "Wait for the video" was their advice.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 May 2003 09:58 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was going to see it last night but the line-up was huge, so we went to see Bend It Like Beckham instead - and it was so much fun! Not that this has anything to do with the Matrix sucking.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 16 May 2003 08:38 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alix:
The visuals were, of course, amazing, jaw-dropping, etc. What surprised me was how much I enjoyed the story! Completely and totally sucked me in and provoked metaphysical discussions afterwards.

Concur. Absolutely, 100%.

Keanu Reeves is still cute, and he's 39!

I lost count of how many times I was blown away by the excellent action scenes, I really did. It was that good.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 May 2003 08:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I wanna see it I wanna see it! I think I'll wait a few weeks until the rush is over though.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mohamad Khan
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posted 16 May 2003 09:09 PM      Profile for Mohamad Khan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
me too.
From: "Glorified Harlem": Morningside Heights, NYC | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 17 May 2003 05:09 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Me and some friends are aeeing it tonight. We're getting properly altered, re-watching the first film, and then heading straight to the theatre in a matrixy haze.

Yes, I'm a geek, 'cause geeks have more fun.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 May 2003 05:11 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What does properly-altered mean? Now I'm missing the young, hip phrases!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 17 May 2003 05:40 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah does believe, missus, that he means some of BC's finest export product.

*doffs ten-gallon hat and marvels at the lapels on his new suit.* (Yes, I'm now an oil company man. Check my fine photo. )


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 17 May 2003 06:26 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
it's interesting to read pevere's review of "the matrix" to see what he thought of it then.
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clockwork
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posted 18 May 2003 12:39 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Didn't read it, but another review, this own from Slate.

Neo Con
The Matrix Reloaded: We waited four years for this?


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 18 May 2003 10:16 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I saw it on Friday. Wow, if there was a script specifically for the dialogue of the film, I predict it would be about 6 pages long. And boy can Keanu not act. "I. Love. You. Too. Damn. Much." Horrible! I think the fight scenes could have been entertaining, if instead of being dressed like this:

Hugo Weaving had been dressed like this:


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 18 May 2003 11:24 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hahahahahaha! Audra, naughty you. You didn't turn your brain off for the movie.

That does it, though. I'll take the red pill, thanks -- I'll be missing this film on video, too.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 19 May 2003 04:53 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rasmus_raven:
Hahahahahaha! Audra, naughty you. You didn't turn your brain off for the movie.

That does it, though. I'll take the red pill, thanks -- I'll be missing this film on video, too.


Is it just me, or did Morpheus steal the speech he made in the cavern from menachim begeen? Come to think of it, Nasser probably said somthing like that too.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alienrocker
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posted 19 May 2003 05:00 PM      Profile for Alienrocker        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I saw "A Mighty Wind" and "Reloaded." Both are entertaining and involving, but you can't recapture their predecessor's magic - "Best in Show" and "The Matrix" were masterpieces.

However, their successors have their charms. "Reloaded" disappointed my Matrix-rabid brother in law, but delighted a family teenager.

These are just movies - some rise to greatness with a certain originality - "The Matrix" certainly was economically and magnificently done - but "Reloaded" is really just a new-techno
showcase for action - revelation is minimal. You can't duplicate the awe the original inspires, because the first movie was all exposition and conflict.

Now "Reloaded" is all rising action and we're not sure if the climax has been reached yet. I think that "Revolutions" will provide the falling action and resolution needed to look at the trilogy as a whole story experience.

If nothing else, we get more of the "Matrix" world and it is still a pretty cool movie. But it isn't ART, which the first, in a way, was.


From: visiting central CT, USA from Rigel IV, Quadrant 9 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 19 May 2003 06:59 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
Is it just me, or did Morpheus steal the speech he made in the cavern from menachim begeen? Come to think of it, Nasser probably said somthing like that too.

Not surprised. There's a Biblical motif in the original Matrix, and so some sort of similarity to speeches other world-historical figures have made in countries steeped in religious tradition would not be out of place.

One example of comparisons that can be made

There are more if you fire up google, so I won't bore you with a huge list of links.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 19 May 2003 09:39 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:

Not surprised. There's a Biblical motif in the original Matrix, and so some sort of similarity to speeches other world-historical figures have made in countries steeped in religious tradition would not be out of place.

One example of comparisons that can be made

There are more if you fire up google, so I won't bore you with a huge list of links.


I was looking at it more from a political perspctive. The retoric he used is quite similar to that of Begeen/Nasser. The enemy is at the gates blah blah...This is a matter of survival...blah blah blah. Don't militaristic leaders ever get tired of using cliches?

[ 19 May 2003: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 19 May 2003 10:04 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
actually, morpheus's speech reminded me of kang:

quote:
We must move forward... not backwards, not to the side, not forwards, but always whirling, whirling, whirling towards freedom!

is it just me, or is it an odd reaction for someone to say "250 000 killing machines are coming for us", and then for everyone to say, "hey, time to party down!!"


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 20 May 2003 12:33 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who's kang?
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dr. Mr. Ben
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posted 20 May 2003 12:38 AM      Profile for Dr. Mr. Ben   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One-eyed alien from The Simpsons.
From: Mechaslovakia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 20 May 2003 12:57 AM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did anyone else stay for the 15 minutes of credits so they could watch the teaser for Matrix III?

I also found Morpheus's speech a little too much. For some reason I was reminded about the speech that was given at the beginning of the Warriors. I think it was more that cadence than anything, but they both also had an unrealistic battle cry that was taken unquestioningly.

Still, loved the movie. Isn't it cool that they can overcome an inability to act by adding sunglasses? If they put shades on Kirk and Spock I would watch the original Star Trek again.


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 20 May 2003 02:59 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This week the Tom Tomorrow Today! thread guests here:

The Republican Matrix


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mohamad Khan
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posted 21 May 2003 12:50 AM      Profile for Mohamad Khan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
saw it on Sunday. it was alright.

i just read Pevere's review and i was shocked to find that at the centre of his article was the very thing i was thinking as i came out of the movie theatre:

quote:
If there is an overriding form of disappointment that presides over the many shortcomings that beset the inevitable but inevitably box office-positive sequel to the phenomenal 1999 sleeper smash The Matrix - too suitably titled The Matrix Reloaded - it is that it ultimately represents the triumph of the Machine.

If it is the Machine - characterized in the first movie as a malevolent form of digital tyranny that enslaves people by convincing them virtual reality is the real thing - that insists that the phenomenon must become franchise, and if it is the Machine that renders personality into product, then the entire revolutionary enterprise depicted in the second and forthcoming third instalments in The Matrix saga is redundant. All this talk - and boy there's a lot of it - of choice and free will notwithstanding, the Machine has won.

...

As it makes its carefully programmed way toward docking procedures with the forthcoming Matrix Revolutions, Reloaded delivers its most compelling philosophical lesson not through direct dramatic illustration but by inadvertent implication.

For all its talk about choice and the power of "why" - Morpheus: "Why is the only real source of power" - this is a movie about having no real choice at all. It's a lesson in the commercial tyranny of the Machine.

It doesn't want you to rise up against technological power, it wants you to sit back and be bludgeoned by it.

In the blockbuster entertainment business, the answer to why is easy. Because the Machine must be fed. The really brave question, and the one the original Matrix asked, is why not?


i was actually really enthusiastic going into it, and it had some wicked scenes, but i came out of the theatre thinking exactly what Pevere is saying, i.e., that all of us in the theatre had just been used by the machine--in fact i seriously wondered whether the film's creators weren't having a laugh behind our backs. i mean, can it really be unintentional, or is this some sort of crypto-metafiction?

and the punchline is that we're supposed to come back for more(!) well, fuck that; get your mind out of the matrix. i already know what's going to happen in the end, but if i feel like watching part III, i'm just gonna download the goddamn thing.

i also agree 100% with this:

quote:
And what - besides a thousand other generic action movies - could have prepared us for the response of the dreadlocked bridge techie Link (Harold Perrineau) when Neo executes a particularly close-shave act of derring-do: "Yessssssss!" With the downward fistpump yet.

annoying beyond belief. and here's something we were talking about in Victorian lit today:

quote:
In this movie Neo, formerly a figure of disarming obliviousness (which is why the casting of Reeves was so brilliant), has become the dullest form of hero imaginable: The invincible man.

if you haven't seen it, watch it for sure, but watch it on video. and forward the beginning trailers.

seriously, though is it a metafictional film? even link's dumbass remarks seemed like metalepsis, if i'm using the term correctly: purposeful breaks in our suspension of disbelief that remind us that it's just a story, in this case by means of sheer bathos.


From: "Glorified Harlem": Morningside Heights, NYC | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 21 May 2003 12:50 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I must admit, I did like X-men 2 better then the Matrix reloaded. x2 had sympathetic characters I could identify with. Morpheus, Trinity and Neo seemed like cardboard cut outs, they didn't have personalitys at all.

[ 21 May 2003: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 22 May 2003 12:37 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well done, MK. Your kick-boxing criticism could take on 100 mind-warping movies, all at once.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 22 May 2003 01:47 AM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I saw it on opening night, and wasn't impressed. The fight scenes were exciting, but not at all revolutionary. I realize they want to stay with the same theme, but the fights seemed to be very forced.

The story was not nearly as good as the first's. The philosophy was there, but not in the same level or uniqueness.

And Keanu Reeves does suck at acting.

The last movie I really enjoyed was Phonebooth.


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guydabore
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posted 22 May 2003 03:19 AM      Profile for guydabore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found the first Matrix to be incredibly boring, even painful to watch. It was one of those movies that was definitely more interesting to read about than watch. Im going to see the second because of the eye-candy factor. Ill look forward to seeing Jean Baudrillard's take on it, though.
From: the Permanent Autonomous Zone known as my mind | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
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posted 22 May 2003 10:24 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mr. Cranky's Review

quote:
Given the hype surrounding "The Matrix Reloaded," this movie had better instill in me shock, awe and the best orgasm of my life, twice. There hasn't been this much hype leveled at an unsuspecting public since McDonald's reloaded McRibs. The reality, however, is about as disappointing -- chewy, not meaty; processed, not fresh; and masked with a secret sauce of special effects.

From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
glennB
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posted 22 May 2003 10:55 AM      Profile for glennB     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wat I enjoyed about the original MATRIX was how the story slowly unravelled as you watched it. It incorported Buddhist ideas of MAYA - Illusion (also prevalent in other Eastern religions) with Christianity's idea of a Messiah (also in other Western religions). And used 21st century computer ideas to do it. cool.

I figured that in was in inside joke casting Mr.Reeves as Neo. Not unlike THE LITTLE BUDDHA, where, yes, Keeanu plays the Buddha. (Though Lord know what that guy could be englightened about.)

The "action" scenes in the original matrix were neat for about three seconds. Then I too got bored of them. I can remember the part where a huge gun-cannon is shot from a helicopter and you see shells raining down. Really, I thought it was supposed to be a joke.

I also enjoyed the Red Pill / Blue Pill idea. Once you know you can never go back. An idea enhanced in the movie by the character who does try to get himself back into the Matrix. Simple parts from the story is what I had enjoyed.

[If anyone has watched Law & Order CSI, compared to the orginal I think it may have suffered the same problem. The orginal show is brilliantly written and executed; CSI tries to make technology do it all and you laugh out loud at the very poor story-lines.]

From the sounds of it the quality story of the original is lost in RELOADED. I think I'll take the advice of the many here and skip it. (or wait for the DVD).


From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 22 May 2003 07:08 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

HULK SMASH PUNY MATRIX!!!!

June 20th, at a theatre near you.

[ 22 May 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 22 May 2003 08:06 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Caught it the other night with my kid. Mildly diverting I suppose. I stayed awake anyway. Gotta say they know how to throw a party down in Zion though. Reminded me of my residence days at university.

I think lots of Hugo Weaving as an actor, but enough is enough!


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
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posted 22 May 2003 09:49 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quite the trapezius action on Mr. Hulk there.

On to life's important questions: why are the Hulk's pants always purple, no matter what Bruce Banner is wearing? Why does the shirt rip and disappear, along with the presumably looser lower pant leg, while the presumably extremely tight pant around the thigh stays on? Who will design Mr. Hulk's wardrobe? Will Mr. Hulk come out with a franchised line of torn purple creations for the discerning behemoth?

No prizes for the right answers.

BAH!


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 22 May 2003 10:44 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

Talk about delts:


quote:
He'll eat nutritious, high protein
And swallow raw eggs
Try to build up his shoulders
His chest, arms, and legs
Such an effort
If he only knew of my plan
In just seven daysI can make you a ma a a a a n.

He'll do press-ups and chin-ups
Do the snatch, clean, and jerk
He thinks dynamic tension
Must be hard work
Such strenuous living
I just don't understand
When in just seven days
Oh, baby
I can make you a ma a a a a n.


]

The Hulk's wardrobe is problematic. For one, CGIers have a hell of a time making clothing that looks realistic. Check out Golum. Everytime you see his loincloth the illusion is diminished. Clothes are hard to do.

In the movie the Hulk appears nakid a couple of times. Like you've got to be have a huge pair of sweats to have them not come completely off you when you HULK out.

[ 22 May 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]

[ 22 May 2003: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 23 May 2003 02:48 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Clothes are always the hardest part. The ancient Greek sculptors mastered clothes last, after they were quite expert in depicting the human body. You can see the same thing in the history of painting technique. Clothes are a problem.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 23 May 2003 02:25 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
mr. hulk (are we following the globe style guide all of a sudden) looks very tall. is the film set in san francisco or just that scene?
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 23 May 2003 02:51 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am not looking forward to The Hulk. In the few preview clips I've seen, the character CGI for the big greenie looks absolutely horrendous. I can't stand to watch poorly rendered characters in what is supposed to be a live action film. It destroys my ability to suspend disbelief. If you want to make a cartoon, make a friggin' cartoon already.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 23 May 2003 03:45 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just to clarify my position -- I wouldn't pay money to see "The Hulk" in any format whatsoever. Even as a kid I didn't care for the character.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 23 May 2003 04:54 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Matrix 2 was ok. Obviously it's going to be difficult to match the surprise of the first one. Some terrible choices, that rave scene was LAME! Was that supposed to make me LIKE Zion? I can't wait for the machines to destroy that place, it clearly deserves to be erased, it's just lame-o Tim Burton's Ape Planet crap, so un-imaginatively concieved, what a let-down, and those councillors, GAWD, they're doe-eyed peace-loving refugees from Star Trek 5! Yuck.

I was interested to see what Achilles heel they would give Neo, but alas they didn't give him one, so all of the fight sequences involving him are completely devoid of suspense. He is Deus in Machina, Superman without Kryptonite, and inexplicably the movie destroys the only suspenseful action sequence - the freeway sequence in which Morpheus's life is actually at stake - by reminding you just before the climax that no matter what happens Neo will fix it anyway. Weird idea to deflate the suspense, maybe metafiction is the excuse, doesn't make for a very exciting action sequence though...

There is a problematic "whew, it was only a dream" device starting to take over that the original didn't suffer from somehow - is this the Matrix, is THIS the Matrix? Is Zion part of the Matrix? Is Neo a program? This could wear thin really quick in the last film. If it all collapses into complex layers of "illusion" and nothing's at stake, who will give a shit what happens to any of these characters? I already have a hard time sustaining interest in them now when they are ostensibly "real". I am starting to suspect that at the end of #3, Neo is going to wake up with long flowing hair and Bobby's gonna step out of the shower...

Some astonishing state of the art bang bang though and the sluggishly staged metaphysics provoked some discussion afterward that X2 didn't...

[ 23 May 2003: Message edited by: ronb ]


From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
kuba walda
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posted 23 May 2003 05:46 PM      Profile for kuba walda        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow ... Reading this thread I ralized I haven't been to see a movie on the big screen since the projectionists' strike. Just got out of the habit of saying......... that's one I have to see in the theatre. I think I'll have to go and see one soon.
From: the garden | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 28 May 2003 09:22 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Keanu Reeves is giving away millions to crew of Matrix sequels

Nice guy!


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 29 May 2003 06:04 AM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm speechless. How can I shit on the guy now?
From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 May 2003 08:26 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You can't anyway. *I* still think he's cute.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 30 May 2003 11:02 AM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I waver with Keanu. Sometimes he seems cute. Other times he looks clammy, pasty, doughy and asexual. Lately more often the latter. I don't think he's aging terribly well.
From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 30 May 2003 11:36 AM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's odd. It never actually occurred to me that Keanu would age.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 30 May 2003 03:00 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nice guy, that Keanu. Good Canadian boy. Too bad "Reloaded" blows.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 30 May 2003 03:02 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Reloaded is blowing, it's blowing you and meeee" -- mitch and micky

rasmus, you make "clammy, pasty, doughy and asexual" sound like bad things?

[ 30 May 2003: Message edited by: Willowdale Wizard ]


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 30 May 2003 03:54 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I haven't seen the second Matrix installment, but if it's not as good as the first, then it bodes ill for my watching it on any screen larger than my TV.

The first Matrix looked good - stylish, fast-paced, ultra cool hair and clothing - but it wasn't a good movie. The plot was someone's idea of a Philip K. Dick story, that someone being an individual lacking in talent and imagination. The characters were two-dimensional and the dialogue a big yawn. Keanu Reeves? Perfect for the role of a real person living a fake life. Or is that a fake person living a real life? Oh nevermind.

Did I mention it looked good? It was yummy to watch, fer shure. But otherwise, it blew.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the sequel on DVD, regardless of how crappy it is. The digital effects and action sequences are sure to be entertaining.

[ 30 May 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

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