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Author Topic: Cricket, Rugby, Soccer
Deep Dish
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posted 19 August 2005 08:39 PM      Profile for Deep Dish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So I have lived in one of the former British Empire countries and most of them love the above sports, anybody have any idea of the historical/cultural reasons they are not so big in Canada...

I know they are growing but nothing comparable to the popularity they have achieved in New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, India, even Zimbabwe any idea why this is?

My university degree is in history and I cannot come up with a valid reason, my only guess is the British school system never really transfered here, otherwise I am at a loss. Any ideas?

[ 19 August 2005: Message edited by: Deep Dish ]


From: halfway between the gutter and the stars | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Screaming Lord Byron
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posted 19 August 2005 08:50 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Isn't the CFL basically rugby? I imagine that would marginalize that game's appeal.
From: Calgary | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 19 August 2005 08:57 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Isn't the CFL basically rugby?

Bad SLB! No lager!

quote:
My university degree is in history and I cannot come up with a valid reason, my only guess is the British school system never really transfered here, otherwise I am at a loss.

I imagine this is a big part of it. In fact, in English-speaking Canada anyway, the school system was probably consciously designed to be different to the English system of the day -- Egerton Ryerson being both a Methodist, and an opponent of the old (Anglophile) Family Compact.

Only in BC have I noticed public schools where boys play rugby as opposed to Canadian/American-style football. (If any schools have girls' football programs, I don't know of them). For that matter, here in Vancouver it's the private schools that play American football.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 19 August 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, London's high schools have a vigorous women's rugby league. My Eldest played for Central Secondary School, and I went out to see many games. The young women play rough enough.

I think Cricket never caught on in Canada, because as the country was settled by farmers, and all those big barns went up, people had to paint them and watching all that paint dry supplanted Cricket as the entertainment of the day.

Soccer would be a great sport if they made the field a little smaller, made the goal a little smaller, froze the playing surface, gave the players skates and changed the ball to a puck and allowed body contact.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mayakovsky
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posted 19 August 2005 09:26 PM      Profile for mayakovsky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My understanding of the history of Canadian football is that it is derived from rugby.Likewise cricket morphed into baseball. From what I know the rules of the games were not fixed when they were introduced and they developed on their own here in isolation. As for soccer I am not sure. Perhaps it never caught on because of the potentially limited playing season. Though now we can see that is not the case. When, I played soccer in Ottawa in the 70s and it was still considered pretty exotic, it was the sport all the kids of the ex-pat Brits played.

I think hockey grew because of its easy adaptation to our climate. Similar to its growth in Scandinavia and Russia. Granted this doesn't explain the popularity of soccer in these countries nor the development of hockey in BC. Though hockey took off in BC with the development of the indoor ice rink in the early part of the last century. Like the Denman Arena where the Vancouver Millionaires won the Stanley Cup in 1915.


From: New Bedford | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
dgrollins
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posted 19 August 2005 10:10 PM      Profile for dgrollins   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, Canadian (and American for that matter) football evolved from rugby.

Re: The popularity of soccer in NA.

Soccer was actually very popular in the late 19th early 20th century. The first foreign player to play professionally in England was actually a Canadian (He played for a team that toured the UK. The team drew with Celtic and beat ManU during that tour!).

"Mill leagues," made up of workers from various mills were very successful, drawing bigger crowds than baseball, hockey, the other football, et al. Those leagues were well on the way to becoming fully professional leagues (ringers were brought in to "work" at the mills at the more successful locations) when the depression hit.

With people struggling, there wasn't any money to spend on soccer teams. Although the teams tried to struggle through, it wasn't long until the vast majority had folded.

However, the traditional North American sports survived the depression. The reason for that was that the teams in those leagues associated themselves with the city they were playing out of rather than a particular mill. Rather than having ten mill teams competing with each other for a limited recreation dollar in a city, there was one team that could united everyone. (there was also a cultural aspect to this as many mill teams were associated with a particular ethnic group--i.e. the Italian team or the German team, or the...).

The war prevented a revival of the game in the 1940s. The traditional sports kept going during the war period to give people some much needed distraction. Loyalty was solidified and there wasn't much room left in the sporting landscape for soccer to reassert itself.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 19 August 2005 10:26 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To clarify: I was poking fun at SLB, above, because I misunderstood him. I took him to be saying that Canadian-style football, in particular -- and not American-style -- was basically rugby, when in fact the games are virtually identical.

Edit:

Thanks, dgrollins, for that bit of history. Very interesting.

[ 19 August 2005: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Screaming Lord Byron
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posted 19 August 2005 11:44 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just don't get me started on how hockey is a mere knock-off of shinty.
From: Calgary | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 08 September 2005 11:18 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
england won the toss, and they are 213 for 4, after 55 overs.

it's fair to say that england and wales will be utterly focused, sports-wise, on the cricket at "the oval" in south london over the next five days.

hmm. cricket is a lot like baseball (fast bowlers, fastball pitchers; spin bowlers, knuckleball pitchers; hitting it where they ain't). cricket's lack of success is probably an indication of our cultural domination by the US (the americans don't play it, how good can it be).

a cute little article on how popular cricket has become in england this summer ...

quote:
It started on 21 July, the day of the failed London bombings. Instead of going to work, I found myself at home watching the news on television. The world was coming to an end. Or so I thought, until I switched to Channel 4 and saw Australia batting against England on the first day of the Ashes. While the rest of London ground to a halt, in the parallel universe of Lords they played on and things like rules and boundaries and not arguing with the umpire still mattered. I found it reassuring.

From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
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posted 08 September 2005 12:32 PM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Begs the question of why the Yanks didn't hold on to cricket/soccerfootball/rugby. Revolutionary fervour to purge the country of the symbols of oppression?
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 08 September 2005 12:46 PM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The US became independent in 1776. None of those sports really existed until the early 19th century.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 15 September 2005 05:29 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
it's been a bit mad in england the last few days:

quote:
"Vast strategic manoeuvre -- perfect co-ordination -- utter rout -- complete demoralization -- control of the whole of the Ashes -- brings world cricket domination within measurable distance of its end victory -- greatest victory in human history -- victory, victory, victory!"

In WW's mind, he was running, swiftly running, he was with the crowds outside, cheering himself deaf. He looked up again at the portrait of Big Flintoff. The colossus that bestrode the world! The rock against which the hordes of Australia dashed themselves in vain!



From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged

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