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Author Topic: Lauryn Hill gives heck to priests in Rome
audra trower williams
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posted 16 December 2003 12:23 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
During a Christmas benefit concert at the Vatican, Grammy-winning singer Lauryn Hill launched into an unscheduled tirade against priests who have abused children, according to Italian newspaper reports.

Hill read a statement criticizing the church and its leaders during the Saturday night concert, where she was a featured performer.


cool.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 12:31 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not so cool. Not that I disagree with what she said, but but her choice of venue was ungracious, in my opinion......
From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 December 2003 12:35 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Screw "gracious". When those misogynist, homophobic old men who think they can stick their noses into the private lives of women and gays and into the politics of democratic countries stop encouraging their followers to treat women and gays like second-class citizens, then I'll start worrying about "gracious".
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paxamillion
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posted 16 December 2003 12:37 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heck of a place to make the point, though.
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audra trower williams
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posted 16 December 2003 12:37 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Word.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 12:41 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Give your head a fricking shake! It was a Christmas concert, for goodness' sake. When someone is good enough to ask you to perform, you don't shit on them. Of course, she was probably loaded out of her skull, so she probably was only vaguely aware of her whereabouts.
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audra trower williams
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posted 16 December 2003 12:47 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If Xmas isn't the season to stand up for abused kids, I don't know what is.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 16 December 2003 12:48 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mighty brutus:
Give your head a fricking shake! It was a Christmas concert, for goodness' sake. When someone is good enough to ask you to perform, you don't shit on them. Of course, she was probably loaded out of her skull, so she probably was only vaguely aware of her whereabouts.

I didn't say it was the right thing to do, I simply pointed out it was a heck of a location.

Loaded out of her skull? Have you got any evidence of this? Are you making some sort of vague reference to an addictions problem (in which case you'd be making sport of an illness)?

I'm not convinced it's my head that needs the shake here.


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mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 12:52 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's a time and a place for getting on one's soapbox, and a Christmas concert isn't it (nor is an Xmas concert). I guess the notoriety achieved will promote her record sales, though...

And if anyone was looking for a spokesperson for a cause, I doubt they'd choose Lauryn Hill. She barely even qualifies as a sentient being.


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audra trower williams
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posted 16 December 2003 12:53 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What do you have against Lauryn Hill, mb?
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 16 December 2003 12:55 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
She barely even qualifies as a sentient being.

And this from someone wanting to discuss graciousness?

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: paxamillion ]


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mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 12:55 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by paxamillion:

I didn't say it was the right thing to do, I simply pointed out it was a heck of a location.

Loaded out of her skull? Have you got any evidence of this? Are you making some sort of vague reference to an addictions problem (in which case you'd be making sport of an illness)?

I'm not convinced it's my head that needs the shake here.


Actually, Pax, my 'give your head a shake' was directed at Michelle, but you posted so fast that you were caught in the crossfire. And as far as 'evidence' goes, well, no, I don't have Ms. Hill's urine sample, but as they say, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


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clearview
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posted 16 December 2003 12:58 PM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mighty brutus:
And as far as 'evidence' goes, well, no, I don't have Ms. Hill's urine sample, but as they say, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Translation:
Rastafarian = Drug Addict


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Mr. Magoo
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posted 16 December 2003 12:59 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Definitely ungracious, but hey... it's just words. Never being invited back seems a pretty small price to pay to be able to say something like that in the heart of Mordor.
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audra trower williams
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posted 16 December 2003 12:59 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"I did not come here to celebrate the birth of Christ with you, but to ask you why you are not in mourning for his death inside this place," she was quoted as saying. "God has been a witness to the corruption of his leadership, of the exploitation and abuses ... by the clergy."

Hill's comments to the attendees, which included top Vatican cardinals, bishops and many of the elite Italian society, were followed by a song about social injustice in place of the song listed on the program. Organizers are planning to cut her performance when the show airs on Christmas Eve.


That's what she actually said.

I've actually never heard anything about Lauryn Hill having a drug/alcohol problem, if that's what you're alluding to.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 01:00 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the ammunition, clearview!


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clearview
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posted 16 December 2003 01:04 PM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure what you mean by thanking me for the ammunition MB. I was only guessing that that was what you were assuming. I think it's a pretty low assumption. If I'm wrong let me know.

Edited for clarity.

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: clearview ]


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audra trower williams
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posted 16 December 2003 01:11 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
and if that is your assumption, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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spatrioter
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posted 16 December 2003 01:19 PM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I CAN'T BELIEVE that anyone would think this is the wrong time to bring this up. Ugh! I won't even mention the million reasons why she should be congratulated for what she did. Anyone who would object to this -- I just don't understand.
From: Trinity-Spadina | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 December 2003 01:32 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, when exactly is the right time to bring this up? During the hundred other times she was invited to address all the men in the Vatican at once?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 16 December 2003 01:34 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha! Yes. All those times.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 December 2003 02:03 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But seriously. I'm really interested in why mighty brutus thought she was loaded out of her skull, or why she's not a sentient being. Has she had a publicized drug problem, mighty brutus?
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spatrioter
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posted 16 December 2003 02:05 PM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The only bad thing I remember hearing about Lauryn Hill was the rumour was that she was racist. But Snopes says that's untrue.
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mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 02:18 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Something about that girl's just not right....
From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 16 December 2003 02:19 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you listen to her recent live album, she talks a little about the public perception that she's crazy (her word), and the suggestion that she's not "competent", but it's all in the context of her withdrawing from the commercial music business in order to reevaluate her goals and ambitions, and trying to find a more balanced way of living.

I think she's actually a very sharp and smart social critic, and that there is a lot of spirituality informing her statements. I think she's someone who believes in the heart and soul of Christianity, not the crusy, corrupt veneer that we generally associate with the mega-religion these days. She seems to be all about love, forgiveness, compassion, and respect, which seems to be totally in line with what she said at the concert.

I wonder if we could send letters or emails to the network/show organizers to ask them not to cut her performance. I'd like to see & hear what she said.


From: s | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 16 December 2003 02:20 PM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Obviously, MB is unable to attack what Lauryn Hill said, and he can't find evidence to back up his little smear. Probably best to ignore his trolling until he says something useful.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 December 2003 02:52 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, I want to know. What is it about "that girl" that "just isn't right"? So not right that she's suspected of being a drug addict or alcoholic?
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Hawkins
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posted 16 December 2003 02:59 PM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A soap box is not something that should be left to the corner across from Marble Arch. It is something to be carried around with you whereever you go and whatever you do.

Yes one should respect the location, but that does not mean that you do not have a right to voice your opinion. Ms. Hill did express her complaints valiently and in a well-spoken manner. She does not have to be "shutup" because she is in the Vatican. That is like saying you cannot critize Martin because you live in Canada. Wrong.

The soapbox should be carried where ever you go.


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mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 03:13 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins:
She does not have to be "shutup" because she is in the Vatican. That is like saying you cannot critize Martin because you live in Canada. Wrong.


That is one very tortured analogy!
Honestly, I don't know if she is wacked on something or not. It is my opinion that she is another dim self-aggrandizing celebrity with no manners whatsoever.


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mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 03:22 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sarcasmobri:
Obviously, MB is unable to attack what Lauryn Hill said, and he can't find evidence to back up his little smear. Probably best to ignore his trolling until he says something useful.

If you'll check my first post, sarc., you'll find I did not criticize WHAT she said. It was the PLACE and the TIMING.


From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 16 December 2003 03:30 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jesus kinda has a rep for doing the same thing -- saying uncomfortable truths at awkward times to the rich, the powerful and the religious elite. Guess he was just an ill-mannered self-aggrandizing celebrity too ... and look where it got him!

Wonder what he was on.

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: writer ]


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Lima Bean
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posted 16 December 2003 03:31 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay dude, if she's not going to make such a statement at the Vatican, where exactly would be a more appropriate place and time? When is the right time to say things that nobody wants to hear, but that should be said all the same?

I think, as others have also stated, that this was an ideal venue for her to voice her opinions. I think she did it well, and respectfully and with compassion, and that had she held those opinions and not mentioned them, I'd be disappointed in her.

I say "BRAVO, Lauryn" and I hope they do leave her performance in when it airs on TV.


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mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 03:38 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
Jesus kinda has a rep for doing the same thing -- saying uncomfortable truths at awkward times to the rich and powerful. Guess he was just an ill-mannered self-agrandizing celebrity too ... and look where it got him!

Wonder what he was on.

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: writer ]


So now Lauryn Hill = Jesus.???!!!! Give me a break. I think it's safe to say that she won't end up being crucified.


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clearview
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posted 16 December 2003 03:44 PM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
At least you can say that you tried.
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writer
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posted 16 December 2003 03:45 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Way to miss my point, dude. Which is that Jesus didn't go by some bullshit etiquette to get his points across. He said things at times when they'd be most uncomfortable -- and revealing.

Hill might not be Jesus, but she sure gets his message better than you do.

And I wasn't thinking about the crucified part so much as the head of the church whose elites LH is now criticizing part.

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: writer ]


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mighty brutus
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posted 16 December 2003 04:02 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
Way to miss my point, dude. Which is that Jesus didn't go by some bullshit etiquette to get his points across. He said things at times when they'd be most uncomfortable -- and revealing.

Hill might not be Jesus, but she sure gets his message better than you do.

And I wasn't thinking about the crucified part so much as the head of the church whose elites LH is now criticizing part.

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: writer ]


Way to miss MY point, dude. Jesus did say some uncomfortable truths, but he had a LOT more to lose than Ms. Hill.

And thank you for the insight on Jesus' message.

edited to add:
so far it's: Audra
Michelle
Paxamillion (how could you?)
Hawkins
writer
mr. magoo (et tu?)
spatrioter
clearview
(have I missed anyone?)

Against me.
Obviously we have some different view regarding decorum, but I'm outnumbered and friggin' tired of talking about Lauryn Hill, so I will lick my wounds and take my leave of this thread.

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: mighty brutus ]


From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 16 December 2003 04:12 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought your point was that she had bad manners.

Or that she's an addict?

Did you even have a point? I really can't remember there even being one for writer to miss...


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Michelle
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posted 16 December 2003 04:46 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mighty brutus:
Obviously we have some different view regarding decorum, but I'm outnumbered and friggin' tired of talking about Lauryn Hill, so I will lick my wounds and take my leave of this thread.

Too bad you're leaving before telling us why it is that you assumed she is a stoner or a drunkard. What is it about her that made you assume that?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clearview
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posted 16 December 2003 05:00 PM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was against your characterization of her as some sort of addict without any proof. That is all. Sure, she was an ungracious guest. But maybe she had nothing to be grateful for and felt that her message was more important than manners. It's easy for people like the Queen of England to be gracious - she has the power to destroy entire countries. But those of us who don't have that kind of power sometimes feel the need to be ungracious.
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swallow
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posted 16 December 2003 06:02 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good for Lauryn Hill. I thought she made her point in a very dignified manner.
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Courage
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posted 16 December 2003 06:31 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, Bruti, near as I can tell, the strength of Jesus' sometimes ungracious words came from the fact that he knew he had nothing to lose at all.

[ 16 December 2003: Message edited by: Courage ]


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