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Author Topic: Anti-French? Jealousy? Why is Celine Dion so disliked?
bliter
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posted 30 November 2007 01:20 AM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought hate was too strong a word. Given her obvious success, why is there such widely-held disdain for Celine Dion?

I don't imagine she gets to pick what she sings - or writes the songs for that matter, but she has undoubted talent.

Is underlying this dislike, her Frenchness - plus, perhaps, a good tinge of jealousy?

Being more a radio person, I can't say that I've seen her perform.


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 30 November 2007 01:40 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The same reason I dislike any glossy, manicured comestible disguised as art. It makes the world worse. I don't single out Celine Dion any more than I would Michael Buble, American Idol or anyone else who play that game. In fact, I'd say for the most part, I don't pay her or her clones any mind at all.

I would say I would more despise singers or artistic endeavours that presume to be meaningful and important, but are instead commercial pap. The film Crash and bands like Coldplay spring to mind.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sineed
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posted 30 November 2007 02:31 AM      Profile for Sineed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I don't imagine she gets to pick what she sings - or writes the songs for that matter, but she has undoubted talent.
Well, of course she can pick what she sings, and that's the whole point.

Ages ago, I saw Celine on Letterman, and she was fantastic, using her soaring voice to sing something other than the insipid crap she's been wasting her talent on for at least the past ten years. I think of her as Canada's Whitney Houston, another great singer with terrible choice in material. Musicians have options, and Celine chose to turn her back on artistry, going the entirely commercial route.

But like Catchfire said, dislike is too strong a word. Celine's upfront about what her thing is and doesn't pretend to be anything more important.

Anti-French? Nah; just anti-pap.


From: # 668 - neighbour of the beast | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 30 November 2007 03:03 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That Air Canada jingle was pretty good.
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
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posted 30 November 2007 04:24 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I doubt that anti-French has anything to do with it considering that she is disliked on a whole different level in Quebec.

A friend of mine explained it to me saying "you guys (anglos) have only had to deal with her for the 10-12 years of her English career. We've had to for like 20 years or more."

[ 30 November 2007: Message edited by: Le Téléspectateur ]


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Fidel
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posted 30 November 2007 04:30 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bliter:

Is underlying this dislike, her Frenchness - plus, perhaps, a good tinge of jealousy?

Being more a radio person, I can't say that I've seen her perform.


It's one thing I'll give the American empire credit for, and that's that despite the cultural melting pot phenomenon and "speak American" language policy down that way, they tend to discriminate a lot less on the basis of how your last name is spelled. They've even left many of the French names of towns and villages in place for posterity sake and took in those Francophones who refused to pledge allegiance to the Queen of Ingerland. The French-English thing was pretty vicious, especially in Ontario, for the longest time.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 30 November 2007 07:30 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To quote Bruce McCulloch from Kids in the Hall, when asked why he didn't like jazz:

The sound


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RosaL
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posted 30 November 2007 03:25 PM      Profile for RosaL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
To quote Bruce McCulloch from Kids in the Hall, when asked why he didn't like jazz:

The sound


Yeah, I actually find it painful. There are no deeper or more significant reasons for my dislike. (I dislike other singers with a similar sound. I have no idea who they are but I've been subjected to them in the drugstore.)


From: the underclass | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 30 November 2007 04:00 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I admire her virtuosity (vocal range) but find her significantly lacking in expression when she's singing her english language hits. And, of course, that material generally sux big time.

When I hear her sing en français, however, I'm more open to her - whether it's because she's more expressive in her native language, or because I'm less sensitive to the (lack of) nuance due to my own limitations in a second tongue, I couldn't say.

[ 01 December 2007: Message edited by: Lard Tunderin' Jeezus ]


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Tommy_Paine
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posted 01 December 2007 02:11 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, I think the dislike of Dion is as stated above-- it's annoying to hear a voice like that not matched to good material. Along with Whitney Huston, I'd add Mariah Carey to the list, too.

But, I suspect in all three cases, our disdain is probably more justified when aimed at their managers. But then, it was their job to make money for their clients-- which they seem to have delivered on.

Oh, by the by Scott, I heard your letter read yesterday on Q.

Good one.

[ 01 December 2007: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


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Boom Boom
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posted 01 December 2007 03:01 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It killed my budget, but I couldn't resist and early Christmas gift to myself - a bunch of CDs by old folksingers such as Joan Baez and the McGarrigle Sisters - great voices all. Not one Celine album in the mix.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 01 December 2007 04:14 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think she has a great heart. On Larry King she was broke down crying about Katrina and the poor and she was quite political. I had a new found respect for her then. As a singer though, yikes!
From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 01 December 2007 05:36 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
HEART? Did you say heart? Who could forget poor Jack Dawson slipping away from Rose into the icy depths at the end of the movie? Jack? JAaACk?????

"You're here, there's nothing I fear
And I know that my heart will go on.
We'll stay, forever this way
You are safe in my heart

and my heart will go on and on" and on and..wooo ooo wooo


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 01 December 2007 05:53 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I never actually sat through that movie. I was a Titanic buff at one time, having been influenced by Clive Cussler's novel "Raise The Titanic" and the 1980 motion picture of the same name. However, the discovery of the vessel, and the fact that it was in such a poor condition (not to mention the graverobbing) kind of took the guild off the lilly for me.
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 01 December 2007 06:01 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think with Dion it's not just what she sings - it's her overwrought way of singing it, and her stuff is played to death. The Titanic song is, of course, the best example. And I don't think it's anti-French prejudice or even sexism. It's just that there are some singers whose styles are a love or hate thing.

Think about Michael Bolton. It's the same with him. When I first read the opening post and tried to think of another widely-hated singer, Bolton is the first one to come to my mind. Why? He's got a fantastic range, and a decent voice. But he is like Dion - overwrought, sings pap, has had the most overwrought songs overplayed to death, and has one of those distinctive voices that you either love or hate.

I mean, everyone doesn't hate Dion or Bolton. They sell out concerts wherever they go, so there are lots of people out there who love them.

But it's true that there are artists that it's cool to hate. Dion and Bolton are two of them. I'd say Michael Jackson is another one, albeit he's in a class of his own not just because of his singing style (although to a certain degree it was his music that put him in that category, before all the child abuse stuff started coming forward - when he became "uncool", he became REALLY uncool) but because of his notoriety for being such a weirdo. But his is another voice and style of music that you either love or hate.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 01 December 2007 06:16 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Wizard of Socialism:
I never actually sat through that movie.

OH! You've got to rent the DVD then. Jack and Fabrizio almost didn't get on board the fateful WhiteStar Lines voyage to Amereeka. It was pure luck? of the cards that they did. I'll say no more as I've spoiled it already. Scuse, Wiz'


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The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 01 December 2007 06:52 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's just not my thing. I'd be looking for historical inaccuracies, matte paintings and where the greenscreen met the live action set. Only two movies have ever jerked a tear out of me. Rocky - when fight promotor Miles Jurgens says: "Ladies and gentlemen. Tonight we have had the privilege of witnessing the greatest exhibition of guts and stamina in the history of the ring." Maybe it's the line or the way David Thayer delivers it, but it's heavy, man! And Rudy - when all the other Notre Dame players walk into Coach Devine's office, lay down their jerseys, and ask that Rudy play in their place. It has a real “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” feel to it. That's John 15:13 for you churchy types. Blows me into the river every time.

[ 01 December 2007: Message edited by: The Wizard of Socialism ]


From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 01 December 2007 07:13 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh Rocky ya. Who could fuget abowdit? I just about wept when Mickey said:
"You're gonna eat lightnin' and you're gonna crap thunder!" That scene makes my eyes smolder every time.

From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 01 December 2007 07:20 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Funny for me to see Rocky come up in a thread about french - I first saw Rocky with subtitles in a theatre in Paris.
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Stephen Gordon
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posted 01 December 2007 07:30 AM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
I admire her virtuosity (vocal range) but find her significantly lacking in expression when she's singing her english language hits. And, of course, that material generally sux big time.

When I hear her sing en français, however, I'm more open to her - whether it's because she's more expressive in her native language, or because I'm less sensitive to the (lack of) nuance due to my own limitations in a second tongue, I couldn't say.


That's how I feel as well. I've even been known to turn up the radio when Pour que tu m'aimes encore comes on...


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Fidel
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posted 01 December 2007 02:50 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can remember playing Marjolene Morin's Impoesie on a Matagami diner's juke box every Friday or Saturday night one summer. It was my first job and away from home. She had a rich voice then in 1987.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
toddsschneider
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posted 01 December 2007 06:20 PM      Profile for toddsschneider     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From Wikipedia:

quote:
Dion's francophone releases, by contrast, tend to be deeper and more varied than her English releases, and consequently have achieved more credibility.

That being said: she refused an award from ADISQ for "anglophone album of the year", stating, "I am not an anglophone"; and,

I've seen her go out of her way on Murrican talk shows to avoid being described as Canadian. Quebecoise, yes, Canadian, b'en non, m'sieu.

And she claims not to be political.


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bliter
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posted 01 December 2007 07:00 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps part of the disdain for many is the association of Celine with that movie. It was particularly depressing for me, this having been my first ship - Southampton to Halifax:

http://www.ocean-liners.com/ships/Aquitania.asp


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 01 December 2007 08:04 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ayup bliter. Me old mum came over on the Queen Mary in 1946. She said the ship set a trans Atlantic record for crossing in three days, Southampton to Halifax. It was the lap of luxury compared with what she experienced for the next 25 years in Canada. cheers
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 02 December 2007 03:00 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Funny, it was just the other day I was wondering what ship my mother came over on. I do remember her telling me that they were all summoned on deck to view their adopted home land for the first time. It was the coast of Labrador.

Many women cried.


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Michelle
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posted 16 December 2007 05:04 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hate Celene! ...or do I?

quote:
From the start of her superstardom, Celine Dion's music had struck me as bland monotony raised to a pitch of obnoxious bombast - R&B with the sex and slyness surgically removed, French chanson severed from its wit and soul - and her repertoire as Oprah Winfrey - approved chicken soup for the consumerist soul, a never-ending crescendo of personal affirmation deaf to social conflict and context. In celebrity terms, she was another dull Canadian goody-goody. She could barely muster up a decent personal scandal, aside from the pre-existing squick-out of her marriage to the twice-her-age Svengali who began managing her when she was 12.

As far as I knew, I had never even met anybody who liked Celine Dion. Certainly not many other music critics.

But they were certainly out there. Dion has sold nearly 200 million albums, not counting the Titanic soundtrack. She has five recordings in the Recording Industry Association of America's list of the Top 100 albums by sales, making her the 23rd-best-selling pop act of all time. Globally she is the most successful French-language singer ever and could be the bestselling female singer. For four years her legions have tithed their salaries to fly to Las Vegas for her nightly revue, A New Day, in the custom-built Colosseum theatre at Caesars Palace, which wraps up at the end of 2007. She is beloved by people from Idaho to Iraq, who trade news and debate favourites on Internet message boards like any other group of fans. They cook, work out and date to her music, and when weightier events come, her songs are there, for first dances at weddings and processions at funerals.

When the singer herself is asked if her critics bother her, she answers as she did to Elle magazine in a 2007 interview: "We've been sold out for four years. The audience is my answer."


[ 16 December 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 16 December 2007 01:38 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think what I admire most about Quebecois is that they do have their own culture and a strong sense of identity. They admire their own musicians and artists and have defined their own sense of coolness. If the kids want to wear long hair when the Anglos go short, then that's what they do. Les Quebecois are their own trend setters by what I can tell.
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Nanuq
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posted 16 December 2007 07:19 PM      Profile for Nanuq   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe it's just me but Celine Dion could be a bona fide serial killer and I'd still forgive her because her voice is just that awesome. Did anyone catch her singing "O Holy Night" on Youtube?
Here's the link.

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Scott Piatkowski
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posted 16 December 2007 07:20 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's just you.
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unionist
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posted 16 December 2007 07:20 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nanuq:
Maybe it's just me but Celine Dion could be a bona fide serial killer

You're confusing her with her brother Stéphane.

ETA: Oh wait a sec, I'm wrong - it's her cousin Ghislain:

quote:
Ghislain Dion a été reconnu coupable du meurtre prémédité de sa conjointe Julie Croteau, une infirmière de 32 ans. Il a immédiatement été condamné à la prison à vie, sans possibilité de libération conditionnelle avant 25 ans.

ETA squared: Ok, ok, I just watched about 30 sec of the Youtube. You're right, it was Céline after all. All those people in the audience..........

[ 16 December 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]


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Martha (but not Stewart)
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posted 16 December 2007 09:50 PM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The New York Times has an article today of interest to Dion fans and detractors alike.

A snippet: "She sings about what every woman wants — love," said Dana DiMatteo, from Orlando, Fla., who was taken to the show as an anniversary present.


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bliter
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posted 16 December 2007 10:11 PM      Profile for bliter   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fidel:

quote:
Reply With Quote Ayup bliter. Me old mum came over on the Queen Mary in 1946.

And with my third glass of homemade white wine, a belated "Cheers" to you, Fidel. The Queen Mary was my second ship.

After five years in Las Vegas, Celine Dion must have had something going for her. She was clearly giving the people what they wanted to hear, while meeting the gambling industry's prior interest - the bottom line.


From: delta | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Skinny Dipper
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posted 19 December 2007 02:57 PM      Profile for Skinny Dipper   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Céline Dion would make an excellent contestant on Canadian Idol. She does have an excellent voice. My problem with her is that she lacks the soul when she sings her music. Not only do I want to hear a singer, I also want to hear a storyteller who tells one's own stories. Dion is a great karaoke singer who sings songs written for her. She doesn't sing songs that come from her own thoughts.

I want to hear poets and storytellers who may not always hit the right notes. Céline Dion lacks poetry.

If one wants to hear a poet sing, go to YouTube and type "Jacques Brel" and "Ne me Quitte Pas". The late singer, Brel, had passion. He was not very photogenic but I could believe his poetic songs. He sang in French. "Amsterdam" is another one of my favourite songs by Brel.


From: Ontarian for STV in BC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
FabFabian
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posted 22 December 2007 12:10 PM      Profile for FabFabian        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This woman just annoys the hell out of me. As others have said, I too prefer when she sings in French rather than English. She is another one of those Canadians, who goes down to the States and gets a cultural lobotomy. She will do anything and everything for Americans like sing for their troops, but Canadians? No forget that shit. She plays the whole "I just a simple girl from Charlamagne" crap, yet Montrealers have to pay for police protection for her entourage, when she gets married or has her kid christened. We should have signs at the border like in the Simpsons' drug smuggling episode, "Welcome to Canada, now Celine Dion free!". Hehehehe!
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Pearson's Fan
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posted 22 December 2007 05:07 PM      Profile for Pearson's Fan     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not anti-french, just anti-hype, I think. She's sort of becoming like Elvis in Vegas. I love the Titanic theme song; ignore her otherwise.
From: Ontario | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged

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