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Author Topic: UFC: bloodsport?
Kevin_Laddle
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posted 23 March 2006 08:29 AM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As many people may know, Ultimate Fighting Championship is becoming very popular. This year, several cage fighting events are scheduled throughout Canada in cities such as Halifax, Calgary, Moncton, Montreal, Vancouver, etc.

Anyone here have any opinions on UFC, and do they consider it a legitimate athletic competition, or glorified dog fighting?

(There was a global news special on this last evening, I am still trying to find a link to the story. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please post it.)


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Kinetix
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posted 23 March 2006 09:11 AM      Profile for Kinetix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's entertaining.
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Scout
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posted 23 March 2006 09:56 AM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The UFC has a reality show where the give to fighters a contract at the end of the season. These guys are seriously fit. Many come from a Greco-Roman wrestling background, some are boxers, some have martial arts backgrounds like Muai Thai. By the end of the season they all have to become adept at striking and submission. Basically they all have to be able to wrestle, box and kick box to make it.

The UFC has rules about where and how you can strike, most of the body fair game but the refs are very proactive. These guys don't take nearly the number of shots to the head a boxer does in a match. At last half of the fights seem to end in some sort of submission hold and the guy taps out.

It's exciting and fast paced and several very good fighters are Canadian which make it even more fun to watch.

My favorite though is the Ice Man!


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up
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posted 23 March 2006 11:14 AM      Profile for up     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
UFC is cheesy. Pride is where its at.
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beibhnn
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posted 23 March 2006 11:55 AM      Profile for beibhnn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I had never heard of it until this Xmas when I met an in-law's paramour. She seemed like such a nice, unassuming person (she's an accountant for gosh sakes!) until she began showing off her seasonal loot which involved a lot of UFC paraphenelia. I thought she was kidding but as the conversation went on it became clear she was deadly serious about her love of the UFC.

Hey, it's not my cup of tea, but it seems to attract a wide variety of people in a nice cultish way so may the power of spandex be with them.


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Norse of 60
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posted 23 March 2006 12:13 PM      Profile for Norse of 60     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Given the state of boxing I think it is a breath of fresh air. I wouldn't expect everyone would care to watch it but it is interesting to see how the various disciplines match up against each other. Unlike wrasslin' or boxing this is a *ahem* a sport that can't be rigged.
From: rabble is now the monster it once hunted | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
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posted 23 March 2006 12:18 PM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As far as I am concerned, if you don't have a problem with garden-variety boxing, where the whole point is to bash someone's brains in, I don't see how you can have a problem with any other sport.
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Mr. Magoo
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posted 23 March 2006 12:34 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We used to rent UFC tapes at the video store, and we saw a lot of the early ones, but I haven't seen one in ages.

Sometimes the fights were fascinating. Little guys going up against bruisers and bringing them down by twisting something until they tapped out. One guy who won by doing this while on the ground getting punched. Fast guys who get in one good blow about 5 seconds into the match and win by a knockout. A jiu-jitsu practitioner who repeatedly won by punching faster than I could count. He got taken down eventually, left humiliated, and came back and fought — and won! — in pure jiu-jitsu style, just to prove that he could. Lots of assumptions challenged, for sure. Way more interesting than just a slug-fest.

But they kept changing the rules with every match, and pretty soon it was all a bit watered down. In the early days it was a little bit more "Oz rules" than it is now.

And as mentioned, it's always been fascinating to see how various combat sports match up. Hint: the Sumo wrestler folded faster than Superman on laundry day. Boxers usually don't do much better.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 23 March 2006 12:39 PM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the ancient Romans would have loved it.
From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
The yodelling brakeman
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posted 23 March 2006 01:37 PM      Profile for The yodelling brakeman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
We used to rent UFC tapes at the video store, and we saw a lot of the early ones, but I haven't seen one in ages.

Sometimes the fights were fascinating. Little guys going up against bruisers and bringing them down by twisting something until they tapped out. One guy who won by doing this while on the ground getting punched. Fast guys who get in one good blow about 5 seconds into the match and win by a knockout. A jiu-jitsu practitioner who repeatedly won by punching faster than I could count. He got taken down eventually, left humiliated, and came back and fought — and won! — in pure jiu-jitsu style, just to prove that he could. Lots of assumptions challenged, for sure. Way more interesting than just a slug-fest.

But they kept changing the rules with every match, and pretty soon it was all a bit watered down. In the early days it was a little bit more "Oz rules" than it is now.

And as mentioned, it's always been fascinating to see how various combat sports match up. Hint: the Sumo wrestler folded faster than Superman on laundry day. Boxers usually don't do much better.



UFC has evolved tremendously. In order to have any hope of succeeding, the fighters have to be reasonably well-rounded in all aspects of free fighting (grappling, striking, submissions).

There's no chance of today's UFC event being confused with the old-school 'tough-guy' contests. The introduction of weight divisions,and rules designed to protect the fighter have given the sport more credibility. I predict within 5 years UFC will be more popular than pro boxing. A lot of credit has to go to the refs who step in very quickly if a fighter is in jeopardy.


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Doug
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posted 23 March 2006 06:40 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's incredibly hot.

I don't think more damage is done in UFC than in regular boxing, and they do seem to be very careful about the fighters sustaining injuries. Definitely an athletic pursuit. If you watch the associated "reality" series you can see how much effort the fighters put into their training.


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retread
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posted 23 March 2006 07:22 PM      Profile for retread     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As was posted, Pride has better competitors - mainly because they pay a lot more.

The rules have been modified over the years to encourage more striking than grappling ... in fact they now stand them up if the grappling isn't exciting enough. Their rational is simple enough, they're trying to sell tickets, and uneducated viewers don't know enough about grappling (real as opposed to WWE) to appreciate its fine points. However there's still an incredible amount of skill involved, as well as speed, strength, and conditioning. You would not believe how fast that kind of fighting tires you out. Like any sport, competitors get better over time, as they learn what works and what doesn't. There's been a huge increase in technique since UFC 1.

As for bloodsport, simply said: no. I know a number of guys who compete, there's very few serious injuries ... statistically what they're doing is less dangerous for instance than scuba diving, football, shoveling sidewalks (strangely enough a high number of fatalities involved, mainly cardiac arrest) or even just driving on the highway.


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No Yards
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posted 24 March 2006 09:32 AM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The UFC type matches are way safer than boxing ... in the UFC type matches when you start to get pounded, they don't let the punishment go on. You're get a couple of good hits to the head and are not doing enough to protect yourself, the fight is stopped immediately, no counting, letting the guy regain 1/2 his senses and then let him go back and risk serious injury... unlike in boxing, where you could end up taking the same hits to the head, given a few second break, stood up and pounded on all over again.

Even in the worst of the matches (some of the "no holds barred" matches in places like Brazil) while the rules are pretty wide open (head butting, elbows to the spine, etc are legal) the first sign that someone is unable to defend themselves, even for a second or two, the match is stopped.

If boxing used the same guidelines, then most matches would not go beyond the first round.


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aRoused
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posted 24 March 2006 09:57 AM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
We used to rent UFC tapes at the video store, and we saw a lot of the early ones, but I haven't seen one in ages.

Heh. We bought an early Pay per View episode, only to watch Royce Gracie (sp?) and some other dude essentially hug each other on the ground for half and hour, with Gracie repeatedly kicking his opponent in the kidney region until he eventuall gave up. Yawwwwn (or at least, so it was to bored 19-year olds).

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Michelle
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posted 25 March 2006 10:08 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Moving this to culture.

(A lot of these threads didn't even fit the parameters of the "news" forum even before I made it "national and breaking news"!)


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
nonsuch
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posted 25 March 2006 02:27 PM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Américain Égalitaire:
I think the ancient Romans would have loved it.

Therefore, it should do well in modern America?
Ah-yup.

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Secret Agent Style
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posted 30 March 2006 12:24 AM      Profile for Secret Agent Style        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's a link to interviews and articles about an anarchist UFC fighter Jeff Monson.

And here's a recent Now Magazine column about UFC.

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: Secret Agent Style ]


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The yodelling brakeman
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posted 30 March 2006 12:28 PM      Profile for The yodelling brakeman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Great links, SAS!! A balanced article (for a change) on MMA/UFC.
And I had no idea Jeff Monson was such an articulate guy--although I don't know why I'm surprised, for some reason, most MMA fighters are intelligent and well-spoken-. I saw Monson fight a few weeks ago--I thought he would get pummeled, and he DESTROYED his much larger opponent. A total wrecking machine. He's only 5'8"-- mind you he is about 230 lb. of solid muscle.

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head
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posted 01 April 2006 09:39 AM      Profile for head        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe in a few years we should give the fighters some swords. We could even throw in a couple of half starved tigers and lions, you know, to keep the audience on their toes.
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N.Beltov
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posted 01 April 2006 09:57 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
UFC and MMA generally have developed quite rapidly these last few years. Early on, there were some ridiculously uneven fights and I believe there were some fatalities. (See note)Mind you, boxing has fatalities as well - usually associated with poor officiating and not stopping the fight soon enough. And boxing has amateur forms as well as the professional ranks. It will take a great deal of time for MMA to catch up to boxing, simply in terms of practice and knowledge, but there ARE interesting developments and a lot of learning seems to be going on.

I still prefer plain old boxing and probably always will. MMA has had to evolve to become more sporting (i.e., a contest between equals) whereas boxing has a lot more practice at that.

***************

note: Initially, UFC allowed all sorts of horrible looking assaults in the transition from stand-up fighting to fighting on the ground. They still allow "ground and pound" which is basically standing over a fighter, who is on the ground, and pounding him while standing up. The other method is to sit on the other fighter, literally, and try to pin him while raining blows down upon him. Many otherwise skilled fighters lose this way. This practice included kicks to the head and so on, until its obvious extreme dangerousness became apparent and UFC stopped the practice. (Boxing, for example, allows a "standing eight count" and similar practices, during which time the referee can evaluate the readiness of the fighter to continue. UFC has no such practice, so that, once a fighter is weakened or dazed, there is no rest or much of an opportunity to recover.) I have to admit that this practice revolted me and I stopped watching for quite some time.

[ 01 April 2006: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


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Kevin_Laddle
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posted 01 April 2006 11:24 AM      Profile for Kevin_Laddle   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Secret Agent Style:
Here's a link to interviews and articles about an anarchist UFC fighter Jeff Monson.

And here's a recent Now Magazine column about UFC.

[ 30 March 2006: Message edited by: Secret Agent Style ]


You posted this link on Mar 30th, yet the article is dated as not having existed until April 1st??


From: ISRAEL IS A TERRORIST STATE. ASK THE FAMILIES OF THE QANA MASSACRE VICTIMS. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
The yodelling brakeman
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posted 03 April 2006 05:30 PM      Profile for The yodelling brakeman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think season 3 of "the ultimate fighter" begins this Thursday on Spike TV. I can hardly wait!
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RANGER
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posted 03 April 2006 10:18 PM      Profile for RANGER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some say it's barbaric etc. I like boxing but have been taking more of an interest in UFC, the important message especially to young people growing up in todays "gang" culture is that they should notice it's "one on one" and an even playing field, this is honorable as opposed to the coward gang swarmings etc. that we see far too often in the news these days. I would let my kids watch this over a rap video or WWE anyday.
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Doug
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posted 04 April 2006 03:30 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The yodelling brakeman:
Great links, SAS!! A balanced article (for a change) on MMA/UFC.
And I had no idea Jeff Monson was such an articulate guy

Me neither. Now - I want to have his babies.


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Doug
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posted 04 April 2006 03:31 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by head:
Maybe in a few years we should give the fighters some swords. We could even throw in a couple of half starved tigers and lions, you know, to keep the audience on their toes.

A jazzed up and safety-ised version of gladitorial combat would probably do really well on TV. I'd watch it.


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Norse of 60
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posted 04 April 2006 03:39 PM      Profile for Norse of 60     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
I still prefer plain old boxing and probably always will. MMA has had to evolve to become more sporting (i.e., a contest between equals) whereas boxing has a lot more practice at that.

Wot? Boxing is getting more and more like WWE every day. They hype leading up to the fights is almost more entertaining that the *ahem* fight itself. The heavy weight class especially since Don King/Mike Tyson destroyed all credibility is just a joke to watch.

There are still a few decent matches in the middle weight ranges though.


From: rabble is now the monster it once hunted | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
The yodelling brakeman
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posted 04 April 2006 04:33 PM      Profile for The yodelling brakeman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think a couple of the things that have ruined boxing are the proliferation of both weight classes and "alphabet soup" governing organizations. At one time, the average fan could name most of the champions in the (then) nine weight classes. Now, the title belts are for the most part, meaningless.
Oh, and one more thing that has ruined boxing? Don King!

From: west coast | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged

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