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Author Topic: Graffiti Art
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 31 October 2001 06:26 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm watching Newsworld right now, where they're having a feature about graffiti - and the old debate about whether it's art or a criminal action.

The funny thing is watching all these businessmen whining about how graffiti is becoming too pervasive and that there's no space to enjoy - like their damn advertisements every freakin' place people look (even on the door of washroom stalls!) aren't an urban blight.

Personally, when I take the subway in Toronto and you go through the west end around Keele where the tracks go above the ground outside and you see all that artwork on the back of the buildings along Bloor, I always find the artwork fascinating.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 31 October 2001 09:41 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Taking the VIA train in from the east of Toronto you get to see all that good stuff. The line to the NW has some too, but not a lot. The alleys in and around Queen West are pretty good too.
Wandering around Montreal and what I know of Toronto, I get the impression that Montreal has more graffiti but the stuff in Toronto is of a higher quality. However, Montreal has the whoppers, the three story murals that take the cake. But that is just my subjective opinion, though, not based on any kind of scientific study.
The other place I know of that is good for graffiti is some kind of underpass in Quebec City, down in the lower section by the train station. There are other murals around, but I find you really got to look to see them. I don’t know about other Canadian cities: I can’t remember seeing anything in Winnipeg, I figure you’d get shot for doing graffiti in Calgary, and I was much too young to remember anything about Vancouver or Halifax.
And if you ever sit and watch the freight trains, some of the rail cars have really amazing stuff.

Don’t like “tagging” but I like graffiti. I wish they’d give the transit buses to the graffiti artists. It would beat the hell out of the gaudy full bus ads that they put on them now (well, Brampton Transit and GO have these, I’m not sure about any other transit systems).


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 31 October 2001 11:36 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In Ottawa there's a wall near my building where graffiti is tolerated, if not exactly promoted. It's some of the best stuff I've ever seen (way better than what you see on the train into Toronto, IMHO).

The city of Hull has designated graffiti zones along some of the bike paths. There are signs up telling cyclists to slow down so they don't plow into artists.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
girlincrisis
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posted 31 October 2001 03:01 PM      Profile for girlincrisis     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
interestingly enough, i was just in Ottawa last weekend and i noticed that the graffiti there is predominantly hidden..like up top of buildings...bizarre..whereas in TO you have 'Grafitti Alley', which is soooooo nice to walk through.
um, the comment about 'tagging' kinda provoked me. while you may not 'like' tagging, it serves a cultural/political function. marginalzed groups have adopted this naming in public practice as a way to resist dominant culture..it is a way to express yourself and let people know that 'i am here and i am NOT going to be silenced'. i think in more recent years, grafitti has become more 'acceptable' as a legitimate art form....which gets dicey..cuz now you see pieces in mainstream music videos and so on. that worries me because there are socio-historical links to the hip hop movement...as a form of resistance to racism and so on. appreciation is good, but so is the understandings of its origins.

From: van city | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dawna Matrix
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posted 31 October 2001 04:29 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tagging, IMHO, is territorial pissings. Graffiti, on the other hand, is definitely an art form.
From: the stage on cloud 9 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
sherpafish
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posted 31 October 2001 04:56 PM      Profile for sherpafish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think this debate comes down to personal opinion about the destruction/creation inherant to all art forms. Graffiti has a large potential for deconstuction because its canvas is real-world objects, usualy other people's obects. This scares people.

Also important to consider is the total creative freedom of the artist who is not selling their work; complete artistic/itellectual freedom, no audiance to pander to, all that is left is the tradition of that particular art - in this case the roots of graffiti. I think it is a mistake to forget graffiti's break/hip-hop origins, but at the same time, by not looking out-side of that context the artist is once again limited.

I agree, tagging is a territorial piss-post, where I come from it is nothing more than a bathroom stall scrawl, but done with creativity grafitti is a celebration of defiance and self-found freedom.


From: intra-crainial razor dust | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 31 October 2001 05:11 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But don't territorial pissings have cultural significance to those who do the pissing? I don't like em much, and I'd be mad as hell if anybody tagged my property, but I can still see how tagging could have a deeper meaning to some. Tagging could be seen as a symptom of a larger problem, rather than merely a problem in and of itself.

The frustration could be that, since the "authors" are anonymous, it's hard to tell if they are just stupid hooligans who get off on pissing people off, or "troubled youth" acting out because they can't think of any better options.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
girlincrisis
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posted 01 November 2001 02:12 PM      Profile for girlincrisis     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
totally missing the point of taggin..it's related to grafitti..you can't really separate them. 'bombing' is merely an extension of the tag...a bigger, more beautiful piece. see, the reactions i am seeing here are part of the problem..people start 'defining' what is acceptable (art). this art form is critiques the 'high culture' of art by resisting and refusing to play into the elitism associated with dominant representations perpetuated by 'art history'. it's unfortunate that people can't see the political importance of tagging...i have friends who are involved with both aspects...all grafitti artists have a 'tag'...but your opinion is your opinion. they upset the conventional aesthetics of public spaces and some obviously will react to that. i enjoy it myself at any rate...
From: van city | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
girlincrisis
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posted 01 November 2001 03:19 PM      Profile for girlincrisis     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
don't wanna come off as a know-it-all..i'm not..but here's a website for anyone who wants to get more familiarized with grafitti and bombing

www.bombingscience.com


From: van city | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 01 November 2001 08:48 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it depends. And whose wall it is. There are a few idiots who "tag" buildings, mailboxes, bus shelters, stray dogs (just a joke about the stray dogs but the thought would be funny.) To me, they're just some stupid thing for some dolt to feel tough. They also grow up to write "clever" limericks in bathroom stalls across the country.

BUT. I have seen some pieces of work by graffiti artists with spray cans and they've done some spectacular stuff. If I owned a building, and depending where and the nature of the business, I would probably allow a wall to be painted up nicely by some artist. But I'd hate it if some bozo sprayed "Bob loves Aileen TL4VR" on my wall.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
sherpafish
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posted 03 November 2001 03:35 AM      Profile for sherpafish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I'd hate it if some bozo sprayed "Bob loves Aileen TL4VR" on my wall.

Well, that's not realy a tag at all. A tag is usualy some one's name or handle written in a stylized way - kind of like a 'cooler' version of a signature.
What does a person get out of signing their name on a wall? EGO.


From: intra-crainial razor dust | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
saskzen
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posted 09 November 2001 03:24 AM      Profile for saskzen     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know what graffiti is, but I know it when I see it.
From: Ottawa | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 09 November 2001 03:32 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Graffiti is definitely an art form. I like it about 780,702,546,438,547,894,578,237,465,123.023548218564852 times more than all that CRAP the corporations call 'advertising'. Why should I care more about Ford's new vehicle as opposed to the expression and creations of local residents?????

I think we should re-investigate the introduction of the ClueBat(tm)- Those whiny business men could use it


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Slick Willy
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posted 09 November 2001 11:08 AM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't tagging along time ago part of Gang Nation through subsets, way of marking turf? What we see today is for the most part somewhat removed from that as it is a representation of pop culture underground. Like the way leather jackets were used by bikers for protection from road rash and cold, turning into a clique icon and eventually a fashon statment by those who have never owned a motorcycle it their life. Call it what you like, I feel there is a distinct difference between someone puting their sig on a piece of art work they have done on the side of a building and someone putting their nick on a mailbox.

The orginal use went much further than just a name on a wall. If I remember correctly, it was a stylized symbol that showed Gang-Nation/set/name. Naturally there are artist within these sets who bring their whole set of baggage to the business of gang membership and must outlet it. Thus fantastic murals depicting life and culture. Yet not people who tag are artists in that all they create is something that amounts to "Killroy Was Here".

I have really no problem with the murals that beautify and otherwise bland side of a building. But it does bother me to see some crappy name (no matter how swirlly) on the side of someones truck. It isn't art, it's vandalism.

Also just because someone calls it art doesn't change what it is the least bit. While I may call stomping on a live rat tied to a lamp post on Queen and John performance art, it doesn't change it from being a cruel, sensless act of violence on a defenceless animal. IMO.


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DrConway
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posted 09 November 2001 02:22 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
PETH endorses the use of ClueBats(TM) where necessary to make people aware of situations.

*hands one to meades*


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
sherpafish
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posted 09 November 2001 04:12 PM      Profile for sherpafish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey Doc, care to break out the pocket translator for that one?
From: intra-crainial razor dust | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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Babbler # 625

posted 09 November 2001 06:23 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
heh heh heh! TAKE THAT YOU WHINY BUSINESSMEN!!! *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack*

Wow, these people really don't have a clue! I think I need a stronger ClueBat(TM). Then again, maybe if I just keep whacking them...

heh heh heh...

*whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* *whack* ...


NB: The *whack*'s are the sound of me hitting greedy, whiny businessmen with the ClueBat(TM)- It does not have a dirty subtext- And Shame on you all!

[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 09 November 2001 06:30 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sherpafish: A ClueBat(TM) is a device I used to use in my IRC days to whack lamers who acted like idiots.

Since then I've transferred it to babble wherein it is a device that is used to give Clues in a most forceful fashion to those who lack them.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 09 November 2001 06:49 PM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is it Whacking Day already?
From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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posted 09 November 2001 06:56 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Geez guys have a whole day for that?
From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 09 November 2001 08:42 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...you're saying women don't?

Hmm. Guess it really is Two Solitudes.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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posted 09 November 2001 08:44 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh well in solitude of course!
From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 09 November 2001 08:46 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But it's good to share...
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JCL
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posted 09 November 2001 09:56 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Meades, you snake charmer you.
From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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Babbler # 625

posted 09 November 2001 10:59 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Earthmum! You've soiled my post! Now it sounds icky!

That's okay, I forgive you


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
tools
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posted 19 November 2001 09:01 PM      Profile for tools     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Check out Banksy's stuff all over London.
From: Dublin, Ireland | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
bandit
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Babbler # 1435

posted 29 November 2001 12:19 AM      Profile for bandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
At least it ain't paintballing cadilacs like my brothers buddy does. One of jello biafras campaign promises when he ran for mayor of san francisco as a prank was to spray teflon on all the buildings so that it could be cut out and put in gallery's if it is any good. I really liked the idea almost as much as forcing all non-squatters in the bussiness district to wear clown suits or forcing the asshole bussinessmen using abandoned buildings as tax right offs to let the homeless squat their.

[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: bandit ]


From: sudbury | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
sherpafish
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posted 29 November 2001 12:44 AM      Profile for sherpafish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
bandit! I'm so sorry to hear about your brother.

(or did you mean buddy?)


From: intra-crainial razor dust | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
bandit
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posted 01 December 2001 02:31 AM      Profile for bandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes I do mean buddy.
From: sudbury | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dawna Matrix
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posted 01 December 2001 07:53 PM      Profile for Dawna Matrix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I have to go with Slick Willy on this one. Anyone that I know that does tagging is someone I don't know for long - just because the last time I asked someone why they did it, they said "I dunno. Iz cool."
From: the stage on cloud 9 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mavie
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posted 07 January 2002 11:54 PM      Profile for mavie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like looking at art. It sure beats looking at ads. But why do people have to keep on tagging everything? Am I suppose to be proud that you can spell your name?
From: venus | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dennis J.
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posted 08 January 2002 11:20 AM      Profile for Dennis J.   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We have a neighbourhood in Regina called North Central. It's what people like to call a "Bad Area". It's mostly full of Native-Canadians, and Vietnamese-Canadian Immigrants. I grew up there.

I recently had the chance to buy the house I grew up in, and now I rent it out to a very nice single-parent family at very reasonable rate. I don't make any money on it, but I hated to see my old house in the shitty, run-down condition the previous owner had let it deteriorate into.

It's been hit twice since last March with some of the most mean-spirited, racist GARBAGE sprayed over the front porch, the fence, and even the sidewalk out front. I had my guy out within 24 hours each time to cover over that crap with fresh paint, and clean the sidewalk with the high-pressure sprayer. I had the full support of my tenants, who didn't support this vandalism any more than I did.

You may think that graffitti/vandalism is a "valid form of expression" against the "upper-classes", but it's violence - pure and simple.


From: Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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