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Author Topic: Ironic... don't you think?
'lance
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posted 01 June 2003 01:58 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
NEW YORK - Jazz vocalist Diana Krall and pop musician Alanis Morissette have signed up for roles in a movie musical based on the life of Cole Porter.

Krall, a native of Nanaimo, B.C., will be on screen performing the title song of the MGM production named after Porter's hit Just One Of Those Things.

...

Ottawa-native Morissette will dance and sing Let's Do It, Let's Fall in Love.


Can a spot in Vegas, opening for Celine Dion, be far behind?


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 01 June 2003 02:00 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Should be a treat to hear Morisette destroy the old jazz classics with her whiny, nails-scratching-the-chalkboard, I-gargle-glass-for-breakfast-every-day voice.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 01 June 2003 02:21 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, she started off as a particularly pre-fab sort of teen disco queen. The usual narrative would have it that this packaging was merely a contrivance of her record company, and her turn to grungy angry Alterna-Rock was her assertion of her Brave True Self.

And maybe so.

However, I can't help thinking that like, say, Lou Reed (a one-time Brill Building songwriter), she's got a good deal of the popster in her soul, the kind of tastes that it periodically becomes unfashionable to admit to. And of course, grungy angry Alterna-Rock was what we had instead of pop for a while.

I wonder if this is the first time anyone's invoked Alanis Morissette and Lou Reed in the same breath. It may well be the last.


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 01 June 2003 02:57 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Should be a treat to hear Morisette destroy the old jazz classics with her whiny, nails-scratching-the-chalkboard, I-gargle-glass-for-breakfast-every-day voice.

I've never given Ms. Morrisette much attention before, but if she can carry a tune, why not? Plenty of jazz singers have idiosyncratic voices. Some of them are good.

On the other hand....Holly Cole.


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Debra
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posted 01 June 2003 03:05 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Party of one I guess, but I quite like Alanis Morissette.
From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 01 June 2003 03:12 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Me too, actually.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 01 June 2003 03:18 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually I don't dislike her, but I've thought since day one she needs the musical equivalent of an editor. It might help avoid embarrassing duds like whatever-song-it-is where she sounds like she's reading from a journal -- lines don't scan at all -- and then blows really bad harmonica.
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beluga2
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posted 01 June 2003 11:47 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I'm eternally grateful to Alanis if only for the lyrics to "Ironic", which, um, aren't:

quote:
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
It's like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife
It's meeting the man of my dreams
And then meeting his beautiful wife

Problem is, Alanis' examples of "irony" don't work: they're actually just unfortunate occurrences, or plain old bad luck.

Thus, ironically, you have a song called "Ironic" which lists a number of "ironies", none of which are actually ironic! Now that's a neat trick!

You gotta hand it to Alanis. Nobody could have done that intentionally if they'd tried!


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TommyPaineatWork
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posted 02 June 2003 12:02 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I saw a stand up comic do a routine about how the song wasn't ironic, but twisted the examples to show what irony really was. Can't remember every example, except the rain on the wedding day, which would be ironic only if you were marrying a weather man.

It was quite a clever routine.


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 02 June 2003 12:21 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some pendant told me the word is "ironical" anyway, which makes the whole issue rather...er, ironic?
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TommyPaineatWork
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posted 03 June 2003 01:26 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
.......only if we are English teachers.

Otherwise, it's just shit that happens.


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verbatim
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posted 03 June 2003 02:38 AM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I kind of like that first hit of hers (from the 90's). What was it? I thought it was kind of a good "fuck off I'm doing the best I can manage" kind of anthem. It appealed to me at the time (my mid 20's). WTF was it called?
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al-Qa'bong
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posted 03 June 2003 03:03 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I'll go out on a limb and guess it wasn't called "Banana Oil."
[You'll need to scroll down half a screen or so]

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Mohamad Khan
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posted 03 June 2003 10:54 AM      Profile for Mohamad Khan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Jagged Little Pill"

i think.


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AdvoCat
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posted 05 June 2003 02:23 AM      Profile for AdvoCat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm sure it will be worth the watching...even if you're not into Alanis, Lori Petty 'did it' ("Let's do it") as an upbeat version of the song for Tank Girl...it's a good song. no matter who does it.. I'm sure sometimes on the sly you do it

They say that roosters do it
With a doodle and cock


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ronb
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posted 05 June 2003 11:42 AM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I've thought since day one she needs the musical equivalent of an editor

Amen to that! As does Bruce Cockburn. And Neil Peart. To paraphrase Jeffrey Jones in Amadeus, "There's only so many syllables the human ear can hear. Cut a few of them, that's all."


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Puetski Murder
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posted 05 June 2003 02:39 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ronb, do you really want to be quoting that part of the movie? That particular scene showed what an ignoramus the emperor was. His criticism of Mozart's piece was that it had "too many notes."
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ronb
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posted 05 June 2003 05:28 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He is so beautifully, blithely oblivious, he just cracks me up. A classic comic performance. And yet, for all his ignorance, he does put his finger on the most objectionable aspect of the whole excessive rococco period. But I am big on the "less is more" school of music, so "too many notes" struck a chord, so to speak.
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'lance
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posted 05 June 2003 05:35 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My feeling in this scene was that the Emperor simply doesn't like the piece, but hasn't the musical or critical vocabulary to be able to say why. At some point, however, he's heard this "too many notes" criticism -- which one might legitimately level at some music -- and remembered it. So he simply trots it out because he has it ready to hand, not because it suits.
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nonsuch
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posted 06 June 2003 02:24 AM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But it does suit! He's right. Mozart used too many notes. Too many, too much. Like the wonderful scene in the opera that starts with a duet and keeps adding more voices and he can sustain it for 20 minutes... well, that's really cool from the composer's point of view and it's a fine challenge to the singers - for the audience, it's bloody annoying.
Not knowing exactly which notes to cut doesn't make you wrong to notice that some of them should be cut.

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al-Qa'bong
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posted 06 June 2003 02:39 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Erik Satie packs more meaning into fewer notes than anybody...except maybe Hank Williams.
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meades
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posted 06 June 2003 03:40 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the song Verbatim is looking for is "One hand in my pocket." Actually, I'm not sure if that's the title, it might indeed be one that's already mentioned, but that's the main part of the refrain, which I'm guessing will likely trigger memories.
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xrcrguy
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posted 06 June 2003 04:29 AM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You, you, you
OUGHTA KNOW!
It's not fair
to remind me
of the cross I bear that you gave to me

From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
xrcrguy
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posted 06 June 2003 04:32 AM      Profile for xrcrguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cause every time
I scratch my nails
down someone elses back
I hope you feel it
I hope you feel it

Did you forget about me
Mr. Du-
plicity
I bet she'd make a really excellent mother

ACK! Dammit, it's stuck in my head now.

[ 06 June 2003: Message edited by: xrcrguy ]

[ 06 June 2003: Message edited by: xrcrguy ]


From: Believe in ideas, not ideology | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 June 2003 12:41 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now it's stuck in my head. Thanks a lot.

Here...remedy:


"Would you like to swing on a star
Carry moonbeams home in a jar
And be better off than you are
Or would you rather be a mule?

A mule is an animal with long funny ears
Kicks up at anything he hears
His back is brawny but his brain is weak
He's just plain stupid with a stubborn streak
And by the way, if you hate to go to school
You may grow up to be a mule

Or would you like to swing on a star
Carry moonbeams home in a jar
And be better off than you are
Or would you rather be a pig

A pig is an animal with dirt on his face
His shoes are a terrible disgrace
He has no manners when he eats his food
He's fat and lazy and extremely rude
But if you don't care a feather or a fig
You may grow up to be a pig

Or would you like to swing on a star
Carry moonbeams home in a jar
And be better off than you are
Or would you rather be a fish?

A fish won't do anything but swim in a brook
He can't write his name or read a book
To fool the people is his only thought
And though he's slippery, he still gets caught
But then if that sort of life is what you wish
You may grow up to be a fish

A new kind of jumped-up slippery fish

And all the monkeys aren't in the zoo
Every day you meet quite a few
So you see it's all up to you
You can be better than you are
You could be swingin' on a star."

My kids like this one.


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HighBreath
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posted 07 June 2003 10:50 PM      Profile for HighBreath     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Alanis is amazing.
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speechpoet
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posted 07 June 2003 11:53 PM      Profile for speechpoet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
Some pendant told me the word is "ironical" anyway, which makes the whole issue rather...er, ironic?

Pedant, actually.

Ironic, huh?


From: Sunny Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 June 2003 02:04 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
*cough, cough, cough*
Yup, especially in a *cough* thread about *cough* irony.

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verbatim
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posted 08 June 2003 05:28 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One hand in my pocket! Yeah! That's it -- thanks Meades!
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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