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Author Topic: Battle of the bands
RookieActivist
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posted 04 December 2003 06:39 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have listed a group of bands/artists that came to my mind when I thought of the best of all time. I am sure that I missed a few important ones. For the preliminary round, I ask you to choose 16 of the best bands/artists of all time. Write-in enteries are entirely permitted, as long as they follow the criteria of being among the biggest/best of all time, and not just here and now.

The top 16 bands will then be chosen and placed into a random order. Then there will be faceoffs in which you'll be asked to vote between two bands, with the one getting the most votes progressing to the next round, until only one remains.


Beatles
Pink Floyd
Led Zeppelin
Jimi Hendrix
Cream of Clapton
Animals
The Doors
Jethro Tull
CCR
Eagles
Queen
David Bowie
Bob Dylan
AC/DC
Bob Marley
The Who
The Rolling Stones
Deep Purple
Ramones
Neil Young
Metallica
Rush
Michael Jackson
Tupac
Eminem
Elvis
Frank Sinatra
Rage Against the Machine
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Alanis Morisette
Barry White
Janis Joplin
The Guess Who
Nirvana
Green Day
Oasis
Radiohead
Arethra Franklin
Shania Twain
Aerosmith
Offspring
Nine Inch Nails
Marilyn Manson
Guns N' Roses
Styx
Lynyrd Skynyrd
U2
Foo Fighters
Pearl Jam


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 04 December 2003 08:39 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cliquot Club Eskimos
Jean Goldkette Orchestra
Red Onion Jazz Babies
The Orioles
Bob Crosby's Bob Cats
Light Crust Doughboys
Hoosier Hotshots
Homer and Jethro
Spike Jones and his City Slickers
The Raymond Scott Quintet
Quintette of the Hot Club of France
Fletcher Henderson Orchestra
Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians
Rudy Vallée and his Connecticut Yankees
Guy Lombardo and his Royal Canadians
Red Army Chorus

[ 05 December 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


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bittersweet
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posted 04 December 2003 09:01 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Impossible. Shania Twain!? The best Country music artists of all time are people like Patsy Cline and Johnny Cash and Chet Atkins. Today, Lucinda Williams is almost single-handedly resuscitating the genre from being a backwater of 3rd-rate rock sung by 3rd-rate, nasal-voiced celebrities like Shania Twain.
From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
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posted 04 December 2003 09:26 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Shania is a singer too?
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googlymoogly
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posted 04 December 2003 09:43 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
RUSH!RUSH!RUSH!
That is all.

From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 04 December 2003 10:05 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Glenn Miller Orchestra.
From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 04 December 2003 10:14 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are we allowed to argue here?
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Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 04 December 2003 10:53 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A few influential artists you missed:

Buddy Holly & the Crickets
The Beach Boys
The Who
CSN(&Y)
The Band
Sex Pistols
The Clash
Talking Heads
Elvis Costello
Parliament/Funkadelic
Kraftwerk
Velvet Underground
Iggy Pop
Yellow Magic Orchestra
Genesis, through all their incarnations and many spin-offs
The Bee Gees (Hey, you mentioned Michael Jackson!)


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Catchfire
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posted 05 December 2003 03:28 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This, while admirable, will never, ever work. The write-in entries should have shown us that by now. Your criteria needs to be narrowed, and your musical knowledge widened. There are several bands on the first list that should never, ever be considered the best ever, and several whose omittance is a heinous, heinouse crime (No Velvet Underground or Beach Boys? How?) Are we doing rock? Country? Blues? Jazz? You can't even simplify it to Rock/Pop and be successful. Are we talking objectively best? Most influential? Most consistant? Most proficient? Best to hear when drinking single malts on a rainy Wednesday afternoon? Do you see yet?

Not to mention, those who have their band voted against will cry foul, and question the integrity of the BotB entirely, and more than likely, refuse to vote in the next round. What are you gonna do when the Rolling Stones get kicked out by a bunch of Foo Fighter Fans? I know what I'll do: puke. The internet should never do this to someone.

That said, because I am addicted to music, I will of course partake and offer my top 16, as requested:

The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
The Velvet Underground
Brian Jonestown Massacre
Spiritualized/Spacemen 3
Joy Division
Nirvana
The Stone Roses
Bob Dylan
Big Star
Pavement
The Pixies
The Clash
Iggy Pop & The Stooges
The Jesus & Mary Chain
Primal Scream

Oh, but that was hard. I may alter my list pending further definition of this contest.


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Marc
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posted 05 December 2003 03:43 AM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The White Stripes
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beluga2
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posted 05 December 2003 03:51 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ABBA.
From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 05 December 2003 06:04 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Lou Reed
Elliot Smith
XTC
REM
The Flaming Lips
Radiohead
Roxy Music

From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 05 December 2003 02:55 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
This, while admirable, will never, ever work. The write-in entries should have shown us that by now. Your criteria needs to be narrowed, and your musical knowledge widened. There are several bands on the first list that should never, ever be considered the best ever, and several whose omittance is a heinous, heinouse crime (No Velvet Underground or Beach Boys? How?) Are we doing rock? Country? Blues? Jazz? You can't even simplify it to Rock/Pop and be successful. Are we talking objectively best? Most influential? Most consistant? Most proficient? Best to hear when drinking single malts on a rainy Wednesday afternoon? Do you see yet?

I understand, but at the same time, I think keeping it broad allows everyone to participate. Because this board really has such a diverse population, it should allow such a diverse types of music.

I guess we'll give it a few more days and see if there seems to be a trend in the top 16 or so artists. If not, we can just let it deteriorate into arguments.

Anyways, my top 16:

Pink Floyd
The Beatles
The Who
Led Zeppelin
The Doors
Jimi Hendrix
Eric Clapton/Cream
Yes
Jethro Tull
Bob Dylan
Neil Young
CCR
U2
The Rolling Stones
AC/DC
Animals


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 05 December 2003 03:02 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By the way, I would define greatest as having qualities such as influential, innovative, timeless, the ability to inflcit emotion, etc.

Of course, you may decide that a certain band is great, even without these qualities.

I know I missed quite a few (but I did list The Who, LTJ), but that's the reason why write ins are encouraged.


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Tommy Shanks
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posted 05 December 2003 03:44 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While I think this is devilishly hard I'll contribute my top 16:

Bob Dylan
Dinosaur Jr.
Motorhead
Black Flag
The Ronettes
The Rolling Stones
The Velvet Underground
Johnny Cash and the Memphis Three
Joy Division / New Order
Nirvana
The Stooges
Otis Redding
Bauhaus
John Lee Hooker
The Byrds
Buzzcocks

This can never work. I wish there was a "shaky head" smilie.

Geez thinking about it a little more I could have added:

Prince
Wedding Present
Led Zeppelin
The (early, early people...) Who
The Jam
Subhumans
Lemonheads
Sloan
Leadbelly
Robert Johnson
The Diodes
Buddy Guy
Lightning Hopkins
The Posies
The Faces
Muddy Waters
Johnny Winter
The Minutemen
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Paul Betterfield Band
Albert Collins
nomeansno
SNFU


Where does it end...

Plus I might as well say it here. No matter how deserving the Beatles, I hate, hate, hate Paul McCartney. Anything he touches turns to shit. And Eric Clapton for that matter.

[ 05 December 2003: Message edited by: Tommy Shanks ]


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Rufus Polson
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posted 05 December 2003 08:16 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My problem is, I haven't really listened to that much remotely modern/pop type music. The bands I've listened to much and am fond of probably don't add up to 16. Still less do I have any confidence that they're any kind of all-time best.
Lessee . . .

The Pogues
Beatles
Dire Straits
Pet Shop Boys
Simon & Garfunkel

Then there are ones in categories I listen to:
Chieftains
Silly Wizard
Leahy
Steeleye Span

Heh. I may not know much about rock, but I *know* the Chieftains and Silly Wizard are about the best Celtic bands ever (Irish and Scottish respectively).
I'm fond of classical too, but I don't know enough to name my favourite orchestras . . . although there's the

Canadian Brass ;-)


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 05 December 2003 08:40 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
the Chieftains and Silly Wizard are about the best Celtic bands ever

Have you heard Tri Yann? Ar Re Yaouank is pretty good too.

I agree, Steeleye Span rawks.


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beluga2
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posted 06 December 2003 12:53 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speaking of folk/rock, I nominate Fairport Convention. (The early, Sandy Denny/Richard Thompson version, that is.)

quote:
I'm fond of classical too, but I don't know enough to name my favourite orchestras . . .

I have quite a few classical CD's, but to be honest I couldn't even tell you which orchestras are playing on them. I always think of them in terms of the composer only. So you'll always hear me say "I think I'll listen to Brahms", not "I think I'll listen to the London Symphony Orchestra", or whoever. Odd.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 06 December 2003 11:38 AM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm also a fan of Van Halen; as much of a wiener as Eddie is, he's a virtuoso, and they were pretty influential, too.

Eddie: "Lots of people think a song without singing is not a song.
Tell that to Beethoven and he'll kick your ass."


From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 06 December 2003 01:37 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Plus I might as well say it here. No matter how deserving the Beatles, I hate, hate, hate Paul McCartney

Well, by and large I agree with you. Unfortunately, two words saved this git's soul and reserved a head place at the table of rock n' roll heaven: Penny. Lane.


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West Coast Lefty
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posted 07 December 2003 02:03 AM      Profile for West Coast Lefty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My top 16 (what an arbitrary number to pick ) top bands/artists of all time, as I desperately try to fit in my rock/country/R+B faves:

Chuck Berry
Everly Brothers
Beatles
Beach Boys
Stones
Who
Kinks
Eagles
Van Halen (David Lee Roth era)
Neil Young
Oasis
Pink Floyd
Weezer
Aretha Franklin
Patsy Cline
Smokey Robinson and the Miracles

Honourable mentions:

Elvis Costello
David Bowie
ABBA
The Cars
Cheap Trick
Booker T and the MGs
REM


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Polunatic
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posted 07 December 2003 12:53 PM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No Supertramp fans here?
From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 07 December 2003 01:29 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is what seems to come across as the top 16. I put them into a random order using EXCEL, and bracketed them off into pairs. There will be a round of voting, where you list who you think the winners should be from each bracket.


Bob Dylan
ABBA

The Beatles
REM

The Who
Van Halen

Nirvana
Led Zeppelin

The Velvet Underground
Johnny Cash

Beach Boys
Neil Young

Pink Floyd
Steeleye Span

David Bowie
The Rolling Stones


Explanations and arguing are encouraged, but votes will only count if you list at least 6 of the 8 winners.

If a moderator wants to close this topic and have the first round of voting in a second topic, feel free to do so.


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 07 December 2003 01:36 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ABBA was only mentioned once in someone's top 16 but was given honourable mention. Oasis, OTOH, was mentioned two times in people's top 16...therefore, I move that we remove ABBA and replace them with Oasis.
From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 07 December 2003 01:59 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Except that Oasis was only mentioned once, as I can see. The first list was one of my own, but not my top 16. It was meant only to get some ideas going and give some suggestions.

Unless of course I'm wrong and I've missed someone else listing Oasis.


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 07 December 2003 02:48 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I see that you and West Coast Lefty mentioned it.
From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 07 December 2003 02:56 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, it doesn't matter who you put in, ABBA or Oasis, or even if you put someone in who actually deserves to be in the top 16...because Bob Dylan will beat them all. Here are my picks for the winners, and it's an easy round:

Bob Dylan over ABBA/Oasis, first round knockout.

The Beatles over REM, Michael Stipe throws in towel before beginning of the match, conceding, although likely REM would have made it to the third or fourth round.

The Who over Van Halen in the second. Keith Moon messes up David Lee Roth's pretty little face with a broken Jack's bottle, while Pete breaks his guitar across Eddie's wrists, who cries.

Nirvana over Led Zeppelin in a tenth round decision, 7 rounds to three. The only decision in the first round. Led Zeppelin self-titled came out swinging against the less impressive Bleach, but with the incredible, almosst perfect Nevermind, In Utero and Unplugged albums, the rest of Zeppelin's repetoire, though considerable, came up wanting after Jimmy, Robert, John and John Paul went the distance.

The Velvet Underground over Johnny Cash, fifth round knockout. Just because he's dead doesn't mean he's better. Four flawless albums compared to an impressive, but fluctuating career. A good voice, a good soul, but the man in black can't compete with Lou Reed's lyrics, Sterling's definitive guitar work, John Cale's brilliance and Mo Tucker's pounding, unique rhythms.

Beach Boys over Neil Young in an eighth round knockout. This was a hard swinging bout, as Neil opened with Rock's great cliché 'Keep on Rockin' in the Free World.' The Wilson brothers mellowed that with 'Surfin' USA' 'Cortez the Killer' was riposted with 'California Girls.' 'Help Me, Rhonda' was met with a 'Heart of Gold.' But then, Brian Wilson rolled up his sleeves and went to work. A flurry of Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations proved to be too much for the Harvest Moon, and Neil Young hit the mat, seeing stars.

Pink Floyd over Steeleye Span, default. When Syd Barrett found out he was supposed to be competing against Steeleye Span, when Fairport Convention didn't even make the competition, he went haywire. Well, moreso. Phone calls were made, threats delivered, and Steeleye Span (wisely) opted not to show up.

The Rolling Stones over David Bowie, first round knockout. Iggy Pop, furious at being left out of the competition and being replaced by schtick-stealing David Bowie, decided to roll someone else through broken glass for a change, and the combination of 'Gimme Danger' and 'Gimme Shelter' proved too much for the gimmicky Bowie. Ziggy was exiled on main street and feasting on a beggar's banquet faster than his new image change.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 07 December 2003 03:26 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with Catchfire in almost all of his predictions except I vote Johnny Cash over the Velvet Underground.
From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 07 December 2003 03:30 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But I hate Bob Dylan's voice and I love Liam Gallagher's voice. I guess I vote Oasis (my favorite band) over a very stronger challenger Mr. Bob Dylan with all due reverence for his influence on the music of his era and today. This is a vote based purely on self-indulgence.

[ 07 December 2003: Message edited by: Marc ]


From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Meow
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posted 07 December 2003 03:33 PM      Profile for Meow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
forgive me....but this all kind of sounds like the playlist for your typical "CLASSIC ROCK" station....So now I know who is responsible for the endless hours of Led Zepplin that gets beamed over the airwaves daily....!! I was always blaming it on the guys who drink beer out of the back of pick up trucks, but now I know its also your average bearded lefty..
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Rufus Polson
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posted 07 December 2003 03:59 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Marc:
But I hate Bob Dylan's voice and I love Liam Gallagher's voice.

So? I don't think Bob Dylan would be as good if he had a decent voice, actually. There's something compelling about that scratchy, broken voice that your typical mellow, trained, melodic singer could not deliver. Songs about bad shit sometimes need to be sung by someone who sounds like they've been through bad shit, someone who sounds like a casualty. Gets through to you that yes, this is not a game, the shit really is bad.


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Catchfire
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posted 07 December 2003 04:05 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm gonna hope that the derisive tone you are using for so-called 'classic rock' is reserved for the crappy bands like CCR, The Eagles and Trooper. I'm gonna hope that. I'm gonna hope that, because I can't believe that when you said Led Zeppelin, you meant it. Yes, they were self-indulgent. Yes, they were famous for ten minute drum solos. Yes, they are every teenaged boy's wet dream. Yes, many of their songs are based on sword and sorcery, for some reason. Yes, their amps go up to eleven. And also, they were the best fucking rock n' roll band ever, so what are you on about?

Oh, and they still go down to Nirvana in the first. Dayumm.

As for you, Marc, I'm not sure that Oasis is even in the first round (the first list at the top is not RA's list, it is a list of suggestions) but if they were, what's your problem, man? Bob Dylan, he who invented folk-rock, he who banished lyrics like 'Teeny-weeny yellow polka-dot bikini' to hell, he who freed Hurricaine Carter from jail, he who taught the Beatles what they needed to know, he who still managed to come out with one of the best albums of 2000 is to fall to the charms of impudent rich Manchester City fans who, though talented for the first two albums, have basically fallen off the edge of rock history, and have been outed for the pastiche they always claimed their own? Ha! Ha! I say. Try the Stone Roses, and you'll see what you're missing.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 07 December 2003 04:15 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dylan's voice rules cuz 99% of the population can sing along with his tunes and feel confident that their voices are better than his!

Oh, and as far as mid-90s Britpop goes, Pulp's Different Class blows away anything by Oasis. Anyday.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 07 December 2003 04:21 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Word, Beluga.
From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Meow
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posted 07 December 2003 04:25 PM      Profile for Meow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not going to lie....I've never understood the obsession with Led Zep.

I think it might be one of those things that classic rock radio has killed for me, much like a whole host of other great vintage artists, like Jimi Hendrix, and Pink Floyd.

At one time I thought all three were wonderful. BUt years of being subjected to continuous listening to songs like "foxy lady", and the entire "the wall" album....has made me quite averse to so-called "classic" rock.

I mean, yes, 30 years ago they were great. But its time to move on. There have been a lot of great bands since the 1970s....The problem is that people are still so enamoured with this "classic" rock that they don't bother to seek these things out. This music is "safe" for airplay. All these artists have sold millions of copies....all have been held up as masters by the white male rock establishment....

But yes...I don't want appear too critical of other peoples musical taste. This music is great! I just wish that people would venture outside what has been safely established as "great rock music." There is a whole other world out there.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 07 December 2003 04:44 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, hey, hey...I acknowledged the importance of Bob Dylan. I just can't listen to many of his songs because his voice often sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me. I'm not denying that if it came down to who was more important it would of course go to Dylan. However, this was my vote on pure musical preference. So there...

What did ABBA ever contribute to music anyways?


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Catchfire
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posted 07 December 2003 05:48 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ahh, but Meow...you're missing the point of your own post. Yes, there is other great music out there, and I admit, though the scorching guitar solo on 'Stairway to Heaven' has been played about 80 trillion times too many, but that doesn't make it any less incendiary. I know there is a 'whole other world of music out there' and I am not missing out on it. I am also not missing out on the subtle brilliance of Led Zeppelin III or Pink Floyd's Piper at the Gates of Dawn. Syd Barrett is not 'safe,' believe me. I also listen to Hip Hop, Folk, Blues, Jazz, Electronic, Pop, and all subvariations therin, bands that I think no one would equate with 'safe.'

There is a tendancy when a band becomes too big for hipsters to dismiss them as mainstream. Like beatniks who eschew the White Stripes 'Elephant' and call them poseurs when they loved 'DeStijl' three years ago.

Of course, that said, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd didn't even make my top 16. Then again, not many of these bands did.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 December 2003 06:33 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This whole thread is goofy. Sorry to offend, but that's my opinion.

It seems we have here a battle between 90s alt.rock and 60s and 70s classic [sic] rock, which is predicated much upon the birthdates of the participants, I assume. These are very narrow categories.

quote:
Like beatniks who eschew the White Stripes 'Elephant' and call them poseurs when they loved 'DeStijl' three years ago.

Who, or what, is "White Elephant"?

I betcha that "beatniks" would have more to say about whether Dexter Gordon or Wardell Gray blows hotter in The Hunt.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 07 December 2003 08:41 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bob Dylan
ABBA
Dylan will always be considered one of the best there was. His voice is amazingly moving, and compliments his style of music beautifully.

The Beatles
REM

There's almost no comparison here. The Beatles were not only huge pop/rock, but were incredibly innovative. Their 1970s work is beautiful.


The Who
Van Halen

This was one of the hardest choices, because I love both artists. The Who had some very powerful songs, especially on the Tommy album.

Nirvana
Led Zeppelin

Another tough choice, but I couldn't in good conscience choose Nirvana. If it wasn't for the unfortunate death of Cobain, Nirvana may have been able to continue to develop, but Led Zeppelin totally rocked. John Bonham is the greatest drummer ever. Period.

The Velvet Underground
Johnny Cash

While I recognize Cash's contributions to the country music scene, my personal tastes push me to choose Velvet Underground.

Beach Boys
Neil Young

I never really liked the Beach Boys. Just too poppy for my likes. Neil Young covered such a vast array of music styles, and is probably one of the most talented artists of all time.

Pink Floyd
Steeleye Span

Pink Floyd hands down. Every album is worth buying, aside from A Momentary Lapse of Reason. Water's lyrics combined with Gilmour's guitar and Wright's keyboard created some of the greatest albums of all time, from Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, and the Wall.

David Bowie
The Rolling Stones

Another tough choice. I'm a fan of both Bowie and the Stones. I had to go with my gut and choose the Stones, though.

[ 07 December 2003: Message edited by: RookieActivist ]


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Meow
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posted 07 December 2003 10:22 PM      Profile for Meow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As long as you continue to hold up these mostly white male rock artists the barometers of musical achievement, I reaaaaaaaallly fail to see how you can't say your limiting yourself to something "safe".......

I mean, c'mon bearded lefties....what is the criteria here? who sold the most records? Who is the most white? The most male? The wealthiest? That seems to run contrary to so many other opinions...


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 07 December 2003 10:26 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't realize I liked Rush because they were white/male/safe . Thanks for telling me .

[ 07 December 2003: Message edited by: googlymoogly ]


From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
clearview
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posted 07 December 2003 10:27 PM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah MEOW!

How about a little Ani Difranco and perhaps a little P J Harvey - they Rock!, they're not male, they're not rich (sure by working class standards they're doing good), they are white though. Regardless, they still Rock!


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 07 December 2003 11:25 PM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Note that the same-old Classic Rock usual-suspects are utterly dominating the latest "500 Greatest Albums of All Time" list at Rolling Stone. (Jann Wenner sure likes his lists, don't he?)

The newest entry in the Top 10 is the Clash, from 1979. The Beatles have 4 of the Top 10, Dylan 2.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 07 December 2003 11:54 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by googlymoogly:
I didn't realize I liked Rush because they were white/male/safe . Thanks for telling me .

Say, Nanook, yer post reminded me of this line:


quote:
Sometimes you'll go to a pizza place
You go toSharkey's to get that
American kind of pizza
That has the ugly, waxey, fake yellow kind
Of yellow Cheese on the top...
Then you go to Straw Hat Pizza,
To get all of those artificial ingredients
That never belonged on a pizza in the first place
(But the white people really like it...)

Yeah, Meow purty well nailed the thread topic.

Fake yellow cheese that white people really like....


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Lefty
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posted 08 December 2003 12:47 AM      Profile for West Coast Lefty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What did ABBA ever contribute to music anyways?

Uhh...killer melodies, about 25 absolutely sublime pop songs ("Knowing Me, Knowing You", "Mamma Mia" "Take a Chance on Me", "Super Trouper" "SOS" just for starters), incredible production values and out-of-this-world vocal harmonies and arrangements, just to name a few things off the top of my head.

I agree it's a goofy thread, and I would definitely push for more recent bands like Oasis over Led Zeppelin, who are overrated IMHO (I always forget somebody - I was just listening to The Police Greatest Hits, and they are definitely right up there with the best). I'd put No Doubt up there as an honourable mention as well. Female vocalists like Patsy Cline, Aretha Franklin, and Diana Ross need to be at the top of anybody's best of list.


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Meow
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posted 08 December 2003 12:47 AM      Profile for Meow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hehe...thanks for the support....but that said, I can also appreciate that love of music is a completely visceral response! So go ahead and love your rich white men...really! Just make sure you love them for the right reasons....

Our definition of what constitutes "high" art is often very skewed by those other orthodox notions of what is perfection (i.e. what is rich, white, and male....) Classic rock and classical music aren't really all that different in the ways they are socially constructed....to the exclusion of a whole range of other voices.

Take a listen to the playlist of your local rock radio station sometime and you'll realize just how limited their idea of "good music" really is....The casual sexism/racism/classism regularly expressed by the DJs suddenly doesn't seem so out of place anymore...

I can't really blame people too much though. Those alternative voices are difficult to find unless you are dedicated to seeking them out....they certainly won't be making the Rolling Stone top 40 list....at least not while a scantily clad Britany Spears is what they consider representative of "Women in Rock"...*sigh*


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 08 December 2003 01:34 AM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Uhh...killer melodies, about 25 absolutely sublime pop songs ("Knowing Me, Knowing You", "Mamma Mia" "Take a Chance on Me", "Super Trouper" "SOS" just for starters), incredible production values and out-of-this-world vocal harmonies and arrangements, just to name a few things off the top of my head.
I agree that ABBA was a good band...I do like a lot of their stuff. But Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys could all claim to meet those criteria.

From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 December 2003 01:40 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So could the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

Hang on. How could Brittany (I refuse to spell her name incorrectly, even if her parents didn't) Spears have "out-of-this-world vocal harmonies" with herself?

She ain't no Karen Carpenter.

[ 08 December 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 08 December 2003 01:49 AM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
How could Brittany (I refuse to spell her name incorrectly, even if her parents didn't) Spears have "out-of-this-world vocal harmonies" with herself?
Well...I guess there are two ways...1) overdubbing of her voice on CDs 2) harmonizing with background singers.

From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 08 December 2003 03:21 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Al-Qa'bong:
Fake yellow cheese that white people really like....

Wow, now that's offensive. Dismissing my musical tastes because I am (allegedly) white and male? I love Nina Simone, Patti Smith and PJ Harvey, but can you name one female songwriter that has had as much influence in rock music as Lou Reed or John Lennon? Just one? Women just weren't in it back then...things are changing, and artists are evolving, but there just weren't enough female artists, period.

I also resent being told that the reason I like the music I like is because I'm a certain age. Like Al-Q' can appreciate jazz music from the fourties because he grew up in the sixties, or whatever, while I grew up in the nineties. I said right off the bat that it was impossible to compare Miles Davis to Bob Marley to Leadbelly to the Beatles to Grandmaster Flash to the Clash to Sasha and John Digweed. But, I am saying which of the proposed bands I think are better, because that was the topic of this thread.

So-called 'Classic rock' (which, by the way, is a moniker the critics here threw on it, not one that I did. I just called it music.) isn't bad because it's made by white people any more than Glen Miller is good because it was done by black people. It's good because it's good. Find the courage to get out of your genres. You're not more superior simply because you choose to dwell in Blues, Jazz or (god forbid) World Music instead of Rock or Pop.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 December 2003 10:31 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Dismissing my musical tastes because I am (allegedly) white and male? I love Nina Simone, Patti Smith and PJ Harvey, but can you name one female songwriter that has had as much influence in rock music as Lou Reed or John Lennon? Just one? Women just weren't in it back then...things are changing, and artists are evolving, but there just weren't enough female artists, period.

Huh?

Since when have "male" and "white" been synonymous?

In any case, females were in there before white rock 'n roll got going. That seminal rock opus, Hound Dog, f'rinstance, was written and first performed by Big Mama Thornton.


quote:
So-called 'Classic rock' (which, by the way, is a moniker the critics here threw on it, not one that I did. I just called it music.) isn't bad because it's made by white people any more than Glen Miller is good because it was done by black people.
Glenn Miller was white, but he learned his chops from blacks in Chicago's South Side.

quote:
It's good because it's good.

What do you know? Catchafire and Duke Ellington agree!


quote:
Find the courage to get out of your genres. You're not more superior simply because you choose to dwell in Blues, Jazz or (god forbid) World Music instead of Rock or Pop.

I'm not the guy stuck in one genre. I once rocked, but never to the exclusion of all else. I have many...far too many Rolling Stones records (Goats Head Soup isn't as bad as everyone says...) most of the Beatles and all the Led Zeppelin, Sex Pistols and and Clash records, for example. I also have most Marley and Tosh...and McGarrigle Sisters, for that matter.

Twenty years ago I was listening to the Stones, Ramones, Led Zep and Django Reinhardt. The only one I still listen to with any frequency is Django.

Teenage angst set to the sound of loud guitars wears thin after a while.

[Ed. yeesh, it was over 20 years ago...say, around 1980.]

[ 08 December 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 08 December 2003 10:37 AM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Catchfire, I really really think you missed the point; blame Frank Zappa, not al-Qa'bong .

I love certain rock groups, I'm sorry they're white and male; but I never really thought about their race or gender. I still love them, and would do so if they were women and/or black or any other skin colour. I like them "for hte right reasons" (i.e. for reasons Meow would approve of), and it's not as if that's all I listen to anyway.


From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 08 December 2003 09:27 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nobody entered this discussion and started criticizing your taste in music. Just because it's mainstream doesn't mean that it's any less great than obscure bands you can name. Grow up.
From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 08 December 2003 09:33 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If that was directed at me, I think you missed my point. I agreed with you. I never criticized anyone's taste in music; I was defending my own taste against others who were accusing my choices (and the choices of others who like classic rock) of merely being "safe"...
From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 08 December 2003 09:37 PM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, very sorry. It was directed towards Al-Q and Meow
From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
googlymoogly
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posted 08 December 2003 09:43 PM      Profile for googlymoogly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok sorry for the rashness . Carry on .
From: the fiery bowels of hell | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 December 2003 10:26 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not so much criticising the taste of those who like these bands (as I said, I've liked many of them myself), as I am the narrow range these bands represent.

[ 08 December 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 09 December 2003 01:12 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I take pleasure in the knowledge that there's something in my music collection to piss off just about everybody. Fringe-dwelling hipsters would be appalled by all the million-selling superstar bands, and mainstreamers disturbed by all the crazy, fucked-up experimental underground stuff. Aging classic rock purists would hate all the hip-hop and electronica I own, and youngsters would roll their eyes at all the old-fart geezer-rock.

Plus, everybody has at least one genre of music that they despise in its totality, and chances are that genre is represented on my record shelves. Hate country & western? It's there. Hate gangsta rap? It's there. Hate death metal? It's there. Hate free jazz? It's there.

My musical promiscuity is limited only by my personal history as a white dude who grew up in the suburbs of western Canada -- which is why, numerically-speaking, the bulk of my collection is still centred on rock & roll. It's still the music I know best, the music I grew up with, though I'm continuously sending out exploratory feelers ever further afield.

How I became such a genre-slut is beyond me, but I'm glad for it. Let it all in!


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
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posted 09 December 2003 01:19 AM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
[QB]I'm not so much criticising the taste of those who like these bands (as I said, I've liked many of them myself), as I am the narrow range these bands represent.

What do you mean by narrow range? Narrow demographic? Narrow range of music?


From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 09 December 2003 03:33 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Music.
quote:
I ask you to choose 16 of the best bands/artists of all time. Write-in enteries are entirely permitted, as long as they follow the criteria of being among the biggest/best of all time, and not just here and now.

Most lists on this thread are very "here and now" in my opinion. Someone mentioned Glenn Miller. 60 years ago the Miller outfit was bigger than Nirvana and R.E.M combined. That's just one example.

If you want to talk about "the best of all time" you really ought to consider more than just what's happened in the last 40 years.

Demographic? The colour, gender and age of the ears don't matter.

I suggest you PM beluga and find out what he listens to. It sounds interesting.

Rock over London
Rock on Chicago
Wheaties. Breakfast of Champions.

[ 09 December 2003: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 20 December 2003 12:00 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I'm gonna hope that the derisive tone you are using for so-called 'classic rock' is reserved for the crappy bands like CCR, The Eagles and Trooper.

AARRRRGHHH!!!!
Catchfire, did you really group Creedence Clearwater Revival with the banal Eagles and cretinous Trooper?

If so, I'm afraid you must forfeit you right to an opinion on matters of rock'n'roll, dear sir.


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 20 December 2003 12:24 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My turn.
Allow me to encapsulate things a bit. In no particular order:

Buddy Holly & the Crickets
The Beatles, pre-Maharishi, when they were still a band
The Beach Boys, after Brian found drugs, but before they consumed his brain
The Who, with Keith Moon
Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young (Hollies, Byrds and Buffalo Springfield rolled into one? This band was the one 'supergroup' was coined for!)
Bob Dylan and The Band
Joni Mitchell, 'cause this list needs a woman (and another Canadian). And because on top of her many extraordinary talents, she can ROCK!
The Ramones, for as long as they lasted
The Rolling Stones, up to and including Tattoo You, their most underrated album, and Keith & Ronnie's best
Beastie Boys
The Clash
Parliament/Funkadelic
Kraftwerk, because techno and trance exist
Velvet Underground
Iggy Pop under Bowie's tutelage: chaos nearly controlled
Prince, because he straddles funk, pop, and soul, but he's a rocker at heart


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
flotsom
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posted 20 December 2003 01:28 AM      Profile for flotsom   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not a Stones fan but check out Keef Richards' album Talk is Cheap.

Mind you, it doesn't sound right unless it's really loud.


From: the flop | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Lefty
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posted 20 December 2003 03:17 AM      Profile for West Coast Lefty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
AARRRRGHHH!!!!
Catchfire, did you really group Creedence Clearwater Revival with the banal Eagles and cretinous Trooper?

LTJ, I am totally with you on CCR, but I beg to differ on the Eagles. The Eagles are an incredible band that are unjustly attacked by critics and some elitist music fans.

I just listened to the "Hotel California" album last night - I think any objective listener would have to acknowledge the killer Frey/Henley songwriting team is in top form on this album, the superb guitar duo of Walsh and Felder on "Life in the Fast Lane" "Hotel California" and "Victim of Love", the incredible harmonies on "New Kid in Town" and "Wasted Time" and Henley's brilliant lyrics throughout the album, especially on "The Last Resort", one of the best political songs of the 70's. Oh, and he sings his ass off as well

And that's just one album - "Desperado", "On the Border" and "One of These Nights" are all classics of country rock with some heavy R+B influences on them.

OK, you can flame away at me now


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 20 December 2003 04:25 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The greatest band of all time?

OK. There's one.

Trio. Yeah, the "Da Da Da" guys.

Check out the one-note guitar solo on Ich Liebe der Rock and Roll.

It is absolutely brilliant. Never before has so much been said with so little for so long.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Youngfox.
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posted 20 December 2003 11:53 AM      Profile for Youngfox.   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Led Zeppelin
David Bowie
AC/DC - (Bon Scott era)
Rolling Stones - (but not lately)
Beatles - (always)
Sex Pistols - (they blazed a wretched trail)
Pink Floyd
Jimi Hendrix
Santana
Janis Joplin
The Police
Radiohead


Rush
Martin Tielli - (Rheostatics, Nick Buzz, O.I.J.)
Neil Young
Gordon Lightfoot

Honourable mentions…

Tragically Hip
Tom Waits
Mr. Bungle - (try it!)
Nirvana - (what a sensation)
Pixies
Robert Fripp - (King Crimson, League)
Yes
Marvin Gaye
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Black Sabbath
Uriah Heep
Genesis - (Peter Gabriel and early Phil era)
Barry White


From: Hypercube | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 20 December 2003 11:20 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The Eagles are an incredible band that are unjustly attacked by critics and some elitist music fans...OK, you can flame away at me now.

OK...yeah, well, you're the elitist music fan.

Take that, WCL!


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged

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