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Author Topic: When Should Performers Retire?
fern hill
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posted 03 July 2005 07:25 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I watched some of Live8 yesterday and I thought Lightfoot and Neil Young looked awful. They sounded OK, but looking at them made me cringe. And I think Lightfoot had a line something like 'when I'm old and grey...' Whereupon I wanted to yell at him, 'look in a mirror, man'.

Actors are a different kettle of fish, since there are roles for old people.

The Stones have been creeping me out for years. Shouldn't some performers just retire in some kind of dignity?


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Boom Boom
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posted 03 July 2005 07:32 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The lead singers of Motley Crue and Deep Purple made me cringe as well. Then Pink Floyd from London - wow, those guys have aged. Look at Madonna by comparsion - she still looks young and sexy. I wonder if for Madonna, it's due to a good diet and exercise regimen?
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fern hill
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posted 03 July 2005 07:35 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Madonna's not that old, is she? I thought Annie Lennox looked and sounded terrific.
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koan brothers
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posted 03 July 2005 07:38 PM      Profile for koan brothers     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
They sounded OK, but looking at them made me cringe.

Yeah, how dare they look old in public!


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Reality. Bites.
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posted 03 July 2005 07:38 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The fact that she's 47 and Roger Waters is 62 might also have something to do with it.
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Boom Boom
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posted 03 July 2005 07:41 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Madonna was born in 1958. She's 47, looks 30, if that.
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fern hill
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posted 03 July 2005 07:45 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by koan brothers:

Yeah, how dare they look old in public!


I should have been clearer. It's not that they look old, it's that they look tired, worn out, and undignified. I dunno. I felt sorry for them and feeling pity is not what you (I) want to do when watching a performance.


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Suzette
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posted 03 July 2005 07:45 PM      Profile for Suzette     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Eewwww! Old people!* Icky!


*sarcasm


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A longsuffering conservative
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posted 03 July 2005 07:47 PM      Profile for A longsuffering conservative     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cliché time...beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and of course, the reverse is also true as well.

I've thought on the one hand that many performers should disappear under a rock when they REALLY start to look like hell...

But who the hell am I and what right do I have to make such a judgment.

This is really an individual decision. For better, or for worse. Some will in the end overstay their welcome and lose their dignity but that's their decision.

I don't want anyone telling me when I start to look like hell...and, no I won't provide photos!!!


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Reality. Bites.
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posted 03 July 2005 07:55 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Madonna was born in 1958. She's 47, looks 30, if that.

Oh, Boom Boom, that's what 47 looks like these days.


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Boom Boom
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posted 03 July 2005 08:15 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think we're forgetting that rock has always been about youth and rebellion, expressed in the lyrics "hope I die before I get old". There's a question of credibility that I think arises at some point.

With Gordon Lightfoot, he's a folkie, not a rocker, so that excuses him. And Pete Seeger and Peter, Paul, and Mary are over 60 I think and are all going strong, although the last time I saw Seeger on TV was years ago so I don't know how he's doing today. The great blues singers are all over 60 and sound great. Rock is different - it's supposed to radiate energy, youth, and rebellion.


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Boom Boom
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posted 03 July 2005 08:19 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
Oh, Boom Boom, that's what 47 looks like these days.

All I can say is: wow!


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Reality. Bites.
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posted 03 July 2005 08:22 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
I think we're forgetting that rock has always been about youth and rebellion

It was, back when rock was young people's music. It's not anymore. It's old people's music.


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fern hill
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posted 03 July 2005 08:22 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Peter, Paul, and Mary are over 60 I think and are all going strong

Wee, I can tell my Peter, Paul and Mary story. A pal of mine is friends with Mary. The pal called Mary, asked her how she was doing. Mary said, 'Shitty. I've got a gig tonight. How would you like to have to sing Puff the Magic Fucking Dragon for the nine-millionth time?'


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Boom Boom
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posted 03 July 2005 08:36 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fern hill:
Wee, I can tell my Peter, Paul and Mary story. A pal of mine is friends with Mary. The pal called Mary, asked her how she was doing. Mary said, 'Shitty. I've got a gig tonight. How would you like to have to sing Puff the Magic Fucking Dragon for the nine-millionth time?'


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Boom Boom
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posted 03 July 2005 08:44 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RealityBites:
It was, back when rock was young people's music. It's not anymore. It's old people's music.

That may be. I wonder if many felt a degree of 'cognitive dissonance' listening to the concerts yesterday? Rock concerts, with the superstars (McCartney and Madonna) well over 40. When I was growing up, I remember thinking 30 was over the hill, and I think that was the consensus in the 1960's. Then we all grew up and got older.


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Contrarian
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posted 03 July 2005 09:13 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who cares how old they are? What matters is whehter they can make good music.
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Boom Boom
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posted 03 July 2005 09:47 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Much as I loved the Beatles, I wish McCartney had done something more recent yesterday. I loved the finale "Hey Jude", though, the collective energy of everyone on the stage and the audience singing along. Generally, I'm getting tired of old rockers relying on old hits from the past. I play my old albums, but they are performed by rockers much younger than they are today, and you can feel their energy and enthusiasm. Madonna was the only one I felt had boundless energy yesterday; "Keep on rocking in the free world" last night was done by a collective, not Neil Young himself, although it was great to see him animated and having fun.
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Screaming Lord Byron
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posted 03 July 2005 11:37 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's totally irrelevant. A lot of those artists are past their sell-by dates artistically, though - most certainly Madonna, Paul McCartney and the Stones. It's possible that if the Floyd reunion is anything more than a one-off, their particular dynamic may lead to something worthwhile, but I think rather than physical age, the criteria should be career age - a band or artist only has a set number of good albums in them - REM have obviously passed their moment, as U2 probably have, but there are some people you genuinely cannot rule out as being past-it, Bowie, Young and Leonard Cohen being three decent examples.

There's a Neil Young disclaimer though - his career frequently lurches from stellar to awful, often in the same performance.

[ 03 July 2005: Message edited by: Screaming Lord Byron ]


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Gir Draxon
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posted 03 July 2005 11:53 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Randy Bachman can still rock at 62

Performers should retire when they feel like it, or when they can no longer draw a decent sized audience, whichever comes first.


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Deep Dish
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posted 04 July 2005 01:58 AM      Profile for Deep Dish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I too noticed Madonna's hotness...

She'd give a dog a bone

(old Wayne's World Joke)

(Ducks)


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Hephaestion
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posted 04 July 2005 02:05 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whoops! Mis-read the thread title. I thought it said "When Should REFORMERS Retire?"

I was all set to type in "NOW!!!!"


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obscurantist
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posted 04 July 2005 02:03 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Performers can retire whenever they feel like it (or whenever the money runs out and they need to get another job, whichever comes first), with one exception. Bob Dylan cannot retire, he absolutely positively obviously cannot retire, before his Vancouver concerts later in July (approximately).
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Michelle
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posted 04 July 2005 02:51 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or at least until he's sold another protest song to another major corporation.
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skdadl
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posted 04 July 2005 02:55 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Boy. Was this thread a depressing read or what.
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Hephaestion
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posted 04 July 2005 03:55 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I give up. What?
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saskganesh
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posted 04 July 2005 03:56 PM      Profile for saskganesh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
youth is wasted on the young.
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Tommy Shanks
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posted 04 July 2005 05:14 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with the SLB above. It really doesn't matter how old someone is chronologically. What matters is if they still got it. There are a hell of a lot of 20-something bands who have blown their wad early on, and a lot of "old" bands who can still cut it.

Problem was that many of the Live 8 bands were, IMO, using it as a way to jump start stalled careers.

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babblerwannabe
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posted 04 July 2005 06:38 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Madonna must have worn alot of make up for the Live8 performance. She looked older in some of her other recent photo. Watching her performance on Live 8 was kind of like a blast from the past. It reminded me of the blond ambition tour back in 91, totally awsome.

[ 04 July 2005: Message edited by: babblerwannabe ]


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koan brothers
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posted 04 July 2005 09:28 PM      Profile for koan brothers     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Or at least until he's sold another protest song to another major corporation.

Yeah, next thing you know he'll be doing Google ads.

[ 04 July 2005: Message edited by: koan brothers ]


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obscurantist
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posted 04 July 2005 11:52 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Or at least until he's sold another protest song to another major corporation.

As 'lance posted on the "Bobby Zimmerman sells out again" thread:

quote:
I still like what Jerry Garcia had to say in a Rolling Stone anniversary TV special in 1988:
"We were willing to sell out years ago, but nobody was buying."


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out-of-academia
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posted 19 July 2005 06:17 AM      Profile for out-of-academia     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
reading the "get the old farts off the stage" made me cranky. They were all there to raise $$$ for a good cause.

If seeing people's faces in their natural aging states bothers some of you, I suggest you stick to your reality TV and music videos.

Performing is a career for many of these people. Are you gonna up and quit your career when the ugly stick beats you upside the head?

Cranky reply complete. Over and out.


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Michelle
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posted 19 July 2005 07:40 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fern hill:

I should have been clearer. It's not that they look old, it's that they look tired, worn out, and undignified. I dunno. I felt sorry for them and feeling pity is not what you (I) want to do when watching a performance.


But you said they sounded okay. So I don't really see the problem. If a performer sounds okay, but they're 60 and not up to jumping all over the stage, then it's just a different type of performance than the kind they did when they were in their 20's.


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fern hill
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posted 19 July 2005 08:21 AM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

But you said they sounded okay. So I don't really see the problem. If a performer sounds okay, but they're 60 and not up to jumping all over the stage, then it's just a different type of performance than the kind they did when they were in their 20's.


Again, I should have been clearer. Lightfoot and Young did sound OK, so maybe I'd buy new CDs by them (if I liked them, which I don't much), but it's the live performance part that makes me cringe. Maybe because I'm aging and worrying about my own dignity.

I have a pal of about the same age and we have sworn a blood oath to tell each other immediately if/when one of us wears something that is not appropriate. We've all seen them, people of all sexes, who seem not to realize that they are 30 years too old for the clothes, make-up, whatever they're sporting. I find it pathetic and I really really really don't want to be pathetic.


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bittersweet
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posted 19 July 2005 11:57 AM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Recently went to a Mavis Staples concert. Her voice is legendary, unmatched, a force of nature.

Or it was. The audience was stunned to realize, as she began to "sing" that there is no voice left. It's simply gone, now reduced to an unpleasant croak. It was pathetic watching her shake her head in desperation as she failed to reach any degree of force, stuck in the lowest, weakest, whispery range. She talked a lot between songs, obviously because she needed to draw out the time and rest, and the content was all about her history, as if by reminding us of her glorious career, we'd be distracted from the horrible train wreck of a performance. It was unbearably sad, and moreover, we felt ripped off, since we'd purchased high-priced seats for what we expected - as hyped - would be the chance to hear one of music's greatest voices. Even right before the show, the emcee went on and on about her fantastic voice. It's hard to believe that the promoter, etc. are not aware of the situation. She should retire, though maybe she's impoverished. Even sadder.

It reminded me of seeing Ali fight low-end boxers at the end of his career. Stop, please just stop and let me remember you when...

[ 19 July 2005: Message edited by: bittersweet ]


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ronb
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posted 19 July 2005 12:36 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've seen WAY more shitty performances by 20 year old "new beatles" and "new dylan" flavours of the week than by seasoned veterans. No big surprise, age often brings wisdom and depth.
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