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Author Topic: On swearing
Deep Dish
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posted 21 July 2005 04:44 AM      Profile for Deep Dish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I read a fair amount of message boards/blogs/ and websites including rabble/babble.

I think I really like to know the views of regular people on issues of the day. Yet, I find myself increasingly bothered (a slightly strong term) by postings/posters who tend to use this rhetorical device.

I won't pretend I don't sometimes use swears, although I do so rarely. Personally, I think swearing removes some of the dignity from public discourse and while swears are sometimes powerful they are over-used and can weaken a statement, perhaps because by typing four letter words, the poster is appealing to shock/emotion.

Really there are few concepts or ideas that can't be expressed clearly without using swears and I find when I explain my frustrations, it generally reads better than the four letter word I may have used in the past.

I realize some people don't have the words. But I feel a bit cheated when an otherwise resourceful poster reverts to firing off a few of these curses and insults rather than expressing their frustrations/ideas in a firey and fierce but more respectful tone.

I have been called old-fashioned, conservative, and stuck up before and freely admit that I am not always a perfect gentleman, but any thoughts?


From: halfway between the gutter and the stars | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 21 July 2005 05:10 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree with you, about the topic especially in the real world. A bit of joking is fine, but when people feel the need to replace every fifth word with f-this they often aren't really worthy of talking too. Although I must warn you that your going to get people posting on this thread that are going to be far less less charitable to you considering that we've had this discussion multiple times. Often those who are complaing about civility on this site anyways, completely negate the fact that A) many sites are far worse and B) they often asked for it by cloacking bigotry in 'civil' discourse.

All I can add is that I take a discussion that's degraded to constant swearing less seriously, than one that hasn't. And while one doesn't need to remain completely friendly and cordial, reading posts that contain a whole lot of simplistic swearing (or for that matter the "what did I do?" victimization, sort of thing when someone knows perfectly well what they did) annoying.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
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posted 21 July 2005 09:06 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Damn good topic!

See? There, I have just shown how I use swear words on babble. Actually I avoid them as much as possible as I find them generally unhelpful to putting forth an argument. I find it equally not helpful to call someone "stupid", etc. That said, posters here will continue to use words like that to call others names, swearing or otherwise.

When online I like to use swear words as positives, see above.

(slight thread drift)
The funniest button I ever saw was an anti-Xmas button that had a sprig of holly on it and it said "Merry Fucking Christmas".
(end of thread drift)


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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Babbler # 6718

posted 21 July 2005 09:28 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
Damn good topic!

See? There, I have just shown how I use swear words on babble. Actually I avoid them as much as possible as I find them generally unhelpful to putting forth an argument.


But they're just about the best way possible of dismissing someone not worth the effort of arguing with.

When some anti-marriage or racist troll comes here it's not for the purpose of debate. It's to hurt people. And I tell them to fuck off. I have no hope of reaching them or changing their mind. I want to silence them. Angering them is often the best way to get them to put aside their mask of "polite debate" and get them to the point where they do something bannable. And THAT is my goal.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
EFA
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posted 21 July 2005 09:45 AM      Profile for EFA        Edit/Delete Post
Swearing can be overdone and, when it is, it loses its power but sometimes nothing else will work except a swear word.
From: Victoria, BC | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 21 July 2005 10:06 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
When some anti-marriage or racist troll comes here it's not for the purpose of debate. It's to hurt people. And I tell them to fuck off. I have no hope of reaching them or changing their mind.

How can you be sure what their purpose is?


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fed
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Babbler # 8926

posted 21 July 2005 10:27 AM      Profile for Fed        Edit/Delete Post
My best friend, who is 30 years older than me, was a sailor for much of his life. And he swears (and drinks) like a stereotypical sailor.

After chumming around with him for 15 years, my threshold for "getting offended by swear words" has dropped to just about nil.

Methinks the casual use of swear words has a lot to do with the company you keep. And probably also your ethnic background. The word "fucking," used as an adjective, is apparently not considered a swear word anywhere near as much in Ireland as it is in Canada----I recall sitting on a city bus in Dublin behind two lovely little old white haired ladies who were discussing the fucking this and the fucking that. Quite a shock to my then-23 year old self.

But this is before I met my sailor friend. Who is from Scotland, incidentally.

So my vocabulary has increased somewhat.

Anecdote: When No. 1 Daughter was a toddler and we were eating dinner one night, I'd forgotten to turn off the stove and something boiled over. Uttering an expletive, I jumped up to turn off the stove and move the pot to a cold burner. My daughter started repeating my expletive. My husband, a quick thinker, picked up a utensil and said "No no, FORK, this is a FORK."

Cheers, all

[ 21 July 2005: Message edited by: Fed ]


From: http://babblestrike.lbprojects.com/ | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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posted 21 July 2005 10:32 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just cannot fathom why some people get their knickers in such a knot over swearing.

I tend to be a prolific swearer myself, and it is not because I don't have other words.

Oft times a swear word conveys a sense and meaning that it would take many other phrases to incompass.

Too often as well it seems the people arguing for harsher treatment for the poor, lack of concern for human rights, or against a woman's right to choose, are the ones wanting sanitized language to accompany each rebuttal.

I would far rather be pure in intent and let the language look after it's fucking self.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
EFA
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posted 21 July 2005 10:43 AM      Profile for EFA        Edit/Delete Post
Reminds me of Bill Bryson's anecdote in his book about Australia ...

Little girl hangs out at a construction site for a week and the workers get to know her and give her little jobs to do. On payday, they have a little ceremony and give her a coin. Her mother takes her to the bank to deposit the coin and the teller makes a big fuss over her:

T: Oh my goodness, that's a lot of money!
C: [Beams proudly.]
T: How did you get so much money?
C: I built a house.
T: Aren't you clever! Are you going to build a house next week too?
C: I will if we ever get the fucking bricks delivered!


From: Victoria, BC | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 21 July 2005 10:48 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr. Magoo Sr. is a construction worker, from Quebec no less, so I grew up hearing cursing in both official languages. For the record, the English swearing was for small stuff, and the French swearing was for the big stuff.
From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
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posted 21 July 2005 10:48 AM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
I agree with Debra and bigcitygal, but I have a small quibble. In swearing, it's important to pay attention to the poetics, rhythm, alliteration, etc. For example:

quote:
Originally posted by Debra:
I would far rather be pure in intent and let the language look after it's fucking self.

I think this would be improved by the addition of another syllable:

. . . let the language look after its own fucking self.


From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
EFA
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posted 21 July 2005 10:51 AM      Profile for EFA        Edit/Delete Post
Good writing is really a gift, isn't it? I approve of your improvement.
From: Victoria, BC | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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posted 21 July 2005 11:03 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Holy Shit!!!

I've been edited. GAH!!!!!!!!!


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
RP.
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posted 21 July 2005 11:11 AM      Profile for RP.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Your blue streak was blue pencilled?
From: I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
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posted 21 July 2005 11:17 AM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Debra:
Holy Shit!!!

I've been edited. GAH!!!!!!!!!


No, heavens, no. It was just a suggestion.


From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 21 July 2005 11:38 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Excellent gawddamn suggestion, Fern!
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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Babbler # 6718

posted 21 July 2005 11:59 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:

How can you be sure what their purpose is?


Hailey, you can see the good in a murdering monster like the Atlanta bomber and call him a gentleman.

I have yet to meet a single person online opposed to equality who is not a hate-filled piece of shit and that most definitely includes all your friends on FreakDominion who you claim are loving, caring people. They are ALL sick twisted freaks who take great pleasure in hurting others.

Fuck them. Fuck Connie Wilkins. Fuck Entropy Squared. Fuck Springer. Fuck LondonLady. Fuck Theresa. Fuck ABC. Fuck Dronebuster. Fuck them all.

[ 21 July 2005: Message edited by: RealityBites ]


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
gopi
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posted 21 July 2005 12:32 PM      Profile for gopi     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I feel a bit cheated when an otherwise resourceful poster reverts to firing off a few of these curses and insults

Blame Canada!

p.s. Kyle's mom is a bitch.


From: transient | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sisyphus
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posted 21 July 2005 02:06 PM      Profile for Sisyphus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The reason I generally disapprove of, but am not offended by, the liberal use of profanity is that the power of profanity to evoke a response is inversely proportional to its ubiquity.

A famous Canadian (I'd be thrilled if someone here knows which one!) said something to the effect that "Profanity is like the flag. It should be kept rolled-up and out of sight and only displayed on special occasions."

That being said, "fuck" is certainly the most versatile word in the English langauge. It's a noun, verb, adverb, adjective, participle, gerund. For completeness' sake, can any grammar experts out there enlighten me as to what parts of speech it's playing in the following contexts:

"So, I couldn't believe I saw you with "What-the-fuck's-his-name" last night, fuck?

The last one I've only heard in Winnipeg and identified it tentatively as an interjection but I'm not sure.


From: Never Never Land | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
belva
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posted 21 July 2005 03:24 PM      Profile for belva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by fern hill:

. . . let the language look after its own fucking self.


FYI--according to the O.E.D. the origin of the word "fuck" is unknown; however, the word was probably in use by the 1400's , may have orginated in Scotland, or may be a corruption of the French "foutre".

When writers did not want to fuckin use fuck itself, they have used the following:
colonial puck, friar tuck, frig, fudge, fug, futz, joe buck, lame duck, mrs duckett, russian duck or trolley & truck

So what the colonial puck is wrong with the use of mrs duckett in lettin' the futzin' language look after its own friar tuck self????


From: bliss | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Deep Dish
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posted 21 July 2005 04:37 PM      Profile for Deep Dish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I have to say, I used to be a very prolific swearer, however my last couple of jobs have involved wearing a recorded live mic a lot of the time.

Being caught swearing would likely hurt my career, which is a pretty strong reason for me not to do it - but I think it has made me better at expressing myself.

I don't really care if people swear around me, or on message boards.


From: halfway between the gutter and the stars | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
EFA
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posted 21 July 2005 04:54 PM      Profile for EFA        Edit/Delete Post
I swore during a radio interview but they didn't bleep it.
From: Victoria, BC | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 21 July 2005 05:07 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
NO ONE can swear like the Irish. My Uncle Liam can invent compound curse-words with subordinate clauses at the drop of a hat! (Well, at the hammering of a thumb, anyway! )

It is a sheer delight to listen to a master at his craft.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Yukoner
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posted 21 July 2005 05:07 PM      Profile for Yukoner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
One time, at band camp.....I said 'dang'.
From: Um, The Yukon. | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 21 July 2005 05:10 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by belva:
may have orginated in Scotland

Just so you know anything of much use, like a good swear word and the divine refreshment originated in Scotland, or was dramatically improved by an unheralded Scot.


From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
belva
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posted 21 July 2005 05:21 PM      Profile for belva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Grant I R:

Just so you know anything of much use, like a good swear word and the divine refreshment originated in Scotland, or was dramatically improved by an unheralded Scot.


Amen, Brother Grant I R, Amen!


From: bliss | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 21 July 2005 05:32 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Well, Grant, as the old saying goes, the English may have built the Empire, but the engineers were all Scots.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
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posted 21 July 2005 06:14 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I once heard that the word fuck was an acronym for "For Unlawful Common Knowledge". In other words, sexual assault/rape.

Obviously its meaning has evolved over time.

While growing up, my mom made up the best swear-word combinations! The 2 I remember best are "Jesus Fucking Christ All Bloody Mighty" (which is funny b/c she's Jewish) and "Shit All Fuck". I still use that last one. It's perfect for when you just miss a bus (hint: drag out the word "all" for dramatic emphasis).


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 21 July 2005 06:27 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Hailey, you can see the good in a murdering monster like the Atlanta bomber and call him a gentleman.


I try to find goodness in everyone. Is that a bad thing?

quote:
I have yet to meet a single person online opposed to equality who is not a hate-filled piece of shit and that most definitely includes all your friends on FreakDominion who you claim are loving, caring people. They are ALL sick twisted freaks who take great pleasure in hurting others.

Fuck them. Fuck Connie Wilkins. Fuck Entropy Squared. Fuck Springer. Fuck LondonLady. Fuck Theresa. Fuck ABC. Fuck Dronebuster. Fuck them all.


Geez, I truly did not mean to upset you
It was a sincere question. I've observed you are extremely charitable with some people and will even go to the lengths of providing documented references or explanations and other times you are less charitable. I only meant to ask how you decide! It's certainly none of my business, I was just asking.

And, yes, I do believe you can be a good person and hold different views that I do on SSM. I don't have a "Hailey is right at all times" gene. Life just unfolded in a way that despite having been raised in a milieu that didn't promote my current beliefs on SSM I had experiences that led me to re-think them. If I hadn't had those experiences my thinking would probably be a reflection of my upbringing. For right or for wrong, that's true.

I suppose that knowledge both humbles me and disturbs me. It makes me aware that in my own commitment to raising my kids that I have a responsibility to be careful what I teach them because I want them to grow into really kind sweet kids. Children aren't born with attitudes against groups of people - we teach them.

I appreciate, to whatever extent someone who hasn't been hurt by those messages can, that you've had to deal with the words of people against SSM in a more meaningful way and for a longer period of time than I have. Patience is a finite resource and it is not ALWAYS the best or only response.

For whatever it's worth - or not worth - RB I am certainly not going to tell you you can't swear. Last time I checked I didn't give birth to you but, sincerely, probably the thing that bothered me the most (bothered in the sense of something subsequently nattering at your conscience) didn't have a swear word in it. It plagued my thoughts for days.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
MartinArendt
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posted 21 July 2005 07:08 PM      Profile for MartinArendt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As a poster who has been guilty of swearing on this board (although I try to star out the letters in the swear when I remember, i.e. f*** that s***), I think that swearing has a purpose, but it certainly can be overused.

I tend to swear regularly in day-to-day conversation, though, and I can understand why some people wouldn't want to. It can lead to a lazy way of speaking.

On this board, though, I sometimes find myself getting pretty irritated at some of the trolls, and despite my best efforts, end up losing my temper a bit. That's when the swears and vulgarity can come out for me, and I'm sure it's similar for other babblers as well. It's probably not me at my best, but what can I say? These folks have a way of getting under my skin, whether I like it or not.

(thread drift) Many people believe that Albert Einstein was dyslexic. For those who had been following the Conservative Cruise thread, this is funny. For those who haven't, don't bother. (end of drift)

Finally, one of my favourite swears is "goddammit!" For some reason, it always packs more of a punch than the four letter ones.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Yukoner
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posted 21 July 2005 07:20 PM      Profile for Yukoner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
I once heard that the word fuck was an acronym for "For Unlawful Common Knowledge". In other words, sexual assault/rape.


Actually, I believe it was 'For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge' and I believe it had to do with sex outside of marriage.....

I just remember hearing this at one point, I'm sure somone here could (google) elaborate.

[ 21 July 2005: Message edited by: Yukoner ]


From: Um, The Yukon. | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Screaming Lord Byron
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posted 21 July 2005 08:31 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There's definitely a swearing divide between Canada and Scotland. I don't even feel comfortable writing the word 'c**t' here in this thread, but in Glasgow, it's a fairly common expression, even an affectionate term used between men. I'm not sure what the feminist movement would make of that particular social development.
From: Calgary | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 21 July 2005 08:55 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why, you silly bunt!
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Left J.A.B.
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posted 21 July 2005 09:04 PM      Profile for Left J.A.B.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Yukoner:

Actually, I believe it was 'For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge' and I believe it had to do with sex outside of marriage.....

I just remember hearing this at one point, I'm sure somone here could (google) elaborate.



Well it might just be an old wives tale, or maybe a drunken sailor's tale, but as I heard the story it had to do with the, shall we say, 'conditions' on board ships in HM Royal Navy. Hence the 'unlawful' carnal knowledge part.

From: 4th and Main | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
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posted 21 July 2005 09:18 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yukoner:

Yes, yes, of course, Carnal Knowledge. Duh, where was my brain when I wrote "common"?

As for Left J.A.B.'s post, well, sailors will be sailors.


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Left J.A.B.
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posted 21 July 2005 09:25 PM      Profile for Left J.A.B.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And for my next trick------
Son of a gun. Sailors would sometimes sneak 'their' women out to the ships if they could not get shore leave. The most private place was the cannon, or gun room. The cannon also provided some support while creating the beast with two backs, (another sailor term), the children of these liasons were called sons of the gun.

By the way I forgot to add that fuck came about, acording to the accounts I've heard, because the sailors would be written up, penalized or worse for their crimes. For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge became to long to write out and eventually just got shortened into the handy phrase we have today.


From: 4th and Main | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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posted 21 July 2005 11:16 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:When some anti-marriage or racist troll comes here it's not for the purpose of debate. It's to hurt people. And I tell them to fuck off. I have no hope of reaching them or changing their mind. I want to silence them. Angering them is often the best way to get them to put aside their mask of "polite debate" and get them to the point where they do something bannable. And THAT is my goal.
You are a barbarian, RB. You claim that your opponents are not interested in debate, but you have shown repeatedly that it is you who are incapable of rational discussion. Your admitted purpose is to hurt, and to silence; but ironically, in doing so you hurt your own cause and your own reputation more than anything or anyone else.
quote:
Originally posted by Debra:I just cannot fathom why some people get their knickers in such a knot over swearing.
Neither can I, but that's not the point. Some people ARE offended and hurt by certain words. Knowing that, we have a choice: to avoid those words, which contribute nothing substantive to the discussion anyway; or to use them, and thus to risk hurting people. Why would anyone except a barbarian choose the latter?

[ 21 July 2005: Message edited by: Ron Webb ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 22 July 2005 12:21 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ron, I am not going to support swearing but at some point it does help to look beyond the swearing and wonder what you (or me or anyone) did to upset that person to that degree. Sometimes it's easier to focus on the profanity than it is to look at all of the issues around why things ever got to that point.

And I am not saying that to you anymore than I am saying it to myself. Goodness NOBODY needs that reminder more than me.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
ShyViolet
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posted 22 July 2005 12:54 AM      Profile for ShyViolet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Left J.A.B.:

By the way I forgot to add that fuck came about, acording to the accounts I've heard, because the sailors would be written up, penalized or worse for their crimes. For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge became to long to write out and eventually just got shortened into the handy phrase we have today.

not true...


From: ~Love is like pi: natural, irrational, and very important~ | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 22 July 2005 01:02 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Then theres S.F.A., sometimes rendered as Sweet Fanny Adams; that usage can be blamed on the sailors, but poor Fanny's real story is nasty and gory.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 22 July 2005 01:16 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lately I've taken to actually trying to cut down on the swearing. It forces me to try to come up with new expressions and new ways of saying the same thing.

My favorite thing to say now is "What in the h e double hockey sticks do you think you're DOING?"


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
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posted 22 July 2005 03:31 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'd find it hard to give up "asshat", though.

Of all the fine words I've learned on babble, that's my favourite.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Debra
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 117

posted 22 July 2005 07:39 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Neither can I, but that's not the point. Some people ARE offended and hurt by certain words. Knowing that, we have a choice: to avoid those words, which contribute nothing substantive to the discussion anyway; or to use them, and thus to risk hurting people. Why would anyone except a barbarian choose the latter?

What if I'm offended by not being able to use "those words"

Seems to me this is the same school of thought that tried to force me to say prayers at school even though I was an athiest.

I do generally regulate my language in certain situations ( around children for instance)

Nevertheless, I don't see why someone elses habits or norms should automatically become mine.

I particularly refuse to bow to "keep it clean" pressure from some dumb fuck ranting about how feminists are all hairy bitchs, gays aren't deserving of human rights or that poor people are there because they want to be.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
James
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Babbler # 5341

posted 22 July 2005 08:11 AM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post
I don't see it as a question of morality nor propriety, but rather one of effective communication. A well placed epithet can be very effective as emphasis, particularly coming from someone who rarely resorts to the device.

On the other hand. conversation that consists of profanity as every second word tends to be "tuned out". I compare it to those who have so little of interest to say that they POST IN ALL CAPS JUST TO BE NOTICED. The innate reaction of most is to simply ignore.


From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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Babbler # 2256

posted 22 July 2005 09:38 AM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Debra:
What if I'm offended by not being able to use "those words"
You mean, what if you want the right to hurt people too? Then you are no better than your opponent. Every time you resort to abusive language, your words say more about you than about your target.

P.S.: This is the same school of thought that says we should refrain from prayers in school, because some people might be offended.

[ 22 July 2005: Message edited by: Ron Webb ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Debra
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 117

posted 22 July 2005 09:45 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Webb:

You mean, what if you want the right to hurt people too? Then you are no better than your opponent. Every time you resort to abusive language, your words say more about you than about your target.

Oh give me a break!!!

Abusive language is calling someone a feminazi, any of the racist words etc.

Swearing is just a form of expression.

And as I have previously pointed out the people most offended by "abusive language" are the ones doing the abusing.

I'll assume you are going to stop just short of telling me to be ladylike.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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Babbler # 7024

posted 22 July 2005 10:13 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

"Then you are no better than your opponent."

Ah, there it is again.

One day I'll go through the entire 24 hours without reading or hearing this hackneyed 'argument.' Not one day soon, but one day....


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 22 July 2005 10:28 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Neither can I, but that's not the point. Some people ARE offended and hurt by certain words. Knowing that, we have a choice: to avoid those words, which contribute nothing substantive to the discussion anyway; or to use them, and thus to risk hurting people. Why would anyone except a barbarian choose the latter?

Because about 90% of the people who you seem to think I'm wounding by my use of the venerable old F-word would think absolutely nothing of offending me with words like "Jesus" and "Saviour", and even if asked would not strike those particular words from the public vocabulary.

So if they're not gonna protect my sensitive ears, why am I somehow obligated to protect theirs?

quote:
You mean, what if you want the right to hurt people too? Then you are no better than your opponent.

I don't typically think I'm "better" than my opponent. I'm just "right".

Oh, and Ron? We should refrain from prayer in school. I trust you agree? Separation of church and state and all that? Anyone who wants to pray has Saturday and Sunday, all day both days. That should be enough for anyone, no?


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Loren from USA
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9950

posted 22 July 2005 10:40 AM      Profile for Loren from USA     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
But they're just about the best way possible of dismissing someone not worth the effort of arguing with.

Fuck you.


From: Minnesota, USA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bobolink
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Babbler # 5909

posted 22 July 2005 12:41 PM      Profile for Bobolink   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Ever notice how swearing diminishes the intellectual stature of the person employing it? There are a lot of people on Babble that I ignore because of their interminable use of vulgar language.

Swearing can be effective when used sparingly. As my boss said many years ago, "(Bobolink)I think that's the first time I've heard you swear". To which I replied, "That's because I'm really, really upset".

[ 22 July 2005: Message edited by: Bobolink ]


From: Stirling, ON | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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Babbler # 117

posted 22 July 2005 12:44 PM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bobolink:
Ever notice how swearing diminishes the intellectual sture of the person employing it?

No.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Yukoner
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Babbler # 5787

posted 22 July 2005 12:58 PM      Profile for Yukoner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bobolink:
[QB]Ever notice how swearing diminishes the intellectual sture of the person employing it? QB]

No....but spellun does.


From: Um, The Yukon. | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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Babbler # 2256

posted 22 July 2005 06:20 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Debra: Swearing is just a form of expression.
Yes it is, and what it expresses is that the writer is the sort of person who doesn't mind being offensive, either casually or deliberately.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo: So if they're not gonna protect my sensitive ears, why am I somehow obligated to protect theirs?
Ever heard of something called the Golden Rule?
quote:
Also posted by Mr. Magoo: Oh, and Ron? We should refrain from prayer in school. I trust you agree?
Yes, I do. I thought I said that. We should refrain from any expression that unnecessarily offends others. It's surprising that you understand this when you are the one being offended, but not when you're the one doing the offending.

---------------
This discussion reminds me of the gun control issue. In both cases the two main arguments against restrictions are:
1. self-defense ("I need them for protection"); and
2. recreational use (sport, culture, entertainment, etc.)

My responses are similar on both issues:
1. Are you really that threatened or that vulnerable? (Or that cowardly?) And do you really believe that you can defend yourself that way -- that shooting at somebody is going to make them less likely to shoot back?
2. If it's truly not intended to harm, then I guess the authorities can look the other way if they want to; but if ever a shot is aimed at another person in anger, then it's no longer recreational and the perpetrator should be warned and/or banned. Frankly, I think zero tolerance is just easier.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 22 July 2005 06:30 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, zero tolerance is just easier for just about everything! No messiness whatsoever.

For instance, what about nudity? Different people find different degrees of nudity offensive, so maybe we should just go for zero tolerance in society and say, no nudity! Long sleeves and legs for everyone! That way we don't offend anyone. It's just so much easier Can't be having any ambiguity in our lives now, can we?

And what about drinking? Everyone has different ideas about how much drunkenness is acceptable - hey, I have the solution! Zero tolerance! Nobody drinks, ever, just in case there's some teetotaller out there who is offended by even the slightest inebriation. Easy peasy!

Wow, I think my life is getting a lot easier already. Gosh, why didn't I think of this before? Zero tolerance for all vices and controversial forms of expression - yessirree, we're on our way to utopia. I can't wait!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
babblerwannabe
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Babbler # 5953

posted 22 July 2005 07:28 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
i love to fucking swear.
From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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Babbler # 9050

posted 22 July 2005 07:53 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I like swearing, but only in certain groups. I have a lot of Catholic friends, so I keep the language pretty clean when I'm hanging out with them. But with some of my other groups of friends, swearing isn't just tolerated - it's encouraged I can swear like a trucker, it's come in handy a few times.
From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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Babbler # 214

posted 22 July 2005 08:21 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As always, the first rule is to know your audience.

Yesterday, a construction worker plopped down a detour sign, right in front of me, while I was lined up to make a left turn out of the University of Western Ontario.

In a city of civil manners, the place to divert traffic would be at the START of the left turn lane, not the MIDDLE.

Yeah, I was a tad caboodled. But I didn't swear. Construction workers swear all the time. In many languages. So, I called him a "dork".

It's more dissmissive, and I hope, more injurious to his dignity.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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Babbler # 3807

posted 22 July 2005 08:40 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't cuss when I write, and I don't think I've ever used gros mots on babble - I think it's undignified. As for the argument that swearing is somehow empowering, or that it's an effective use of language, the people I've known to swear the most have usually been among the most powerless and have had the smallest vocabularies.

That said, I'm pretty bad in the locker room or on the shop floor. Like Tommy Paine said, audience matters.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
gunnar gunnarson
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Babbler # 8547

posted 22 July 2005 08:41 PM      Profile for gunnar gunnarson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A couple of weeks ago a friend and I were at a public pool with our kids, said kids ranging in age from 8 to 10 years old. A few feet away there was a group of teenagers. One of them addressed his buddies with a rather loud "I can't fuckin' HEAR ya!" Before I knew it I'd just snapped my head around and fixed him with a look that -- no shit -- prompted him to apologize immediately. He threw in a "sir" on top of that.

"Sir?" When did I get old?

Twenty years ago I was talking the same way to a friend in a restaurant lineup and some guy gave me a similar look and said "do you guys MIND?"

Sigh.


From: audra's corner | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 22 July 2005 09:02 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
That said, I'm pretty bad in the locker room or on the shop floor.

Out in the plant, the noise level takes away certain nuances of inflection, and I believe certain cuss words are used to compensate. "Fuck", and it's many forms, is often used as an exclamation point. When you are speaking in a raised voice as a matter of course, you need something to denote that you are putting some emotion into a particular statement.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Deep Dish
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9609

posted 22 July 2005 09:40 PM      Profile for Deep Dish     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Yeah, zero tolerance is just easier for just about everything! No messiness whatsoever.
For instance, what about nudity? Different people find different degrees of nudity offensive, so maybe we should just go for zero tolerance in society and say, no nudity! Long sleeves and legs for everyone! That way we don't offend anyone. It's just so much easier Can't be having any ambiguity in our lives now, can we?

And what about drinking? Everyone has different ideas about how much drunkenness is acceptable - hey, I have the solution! Zero tolerance! Nobody drinks, ever, just in case there's some teetotaller out there who is offended by even the slightest inebriation. Easy peasy!

Wow, I think my life is getting a lot easier already. Gosh, why didn't I think of this before? Zero tolerance for all vices and controversial forms of expression - yessirree, we're on our way to utopia. I can't wait!


I have no problems with nudity although I have to admit I almost always wear long sleeves and pants... I lived in a conservative area in SE Asia and never broke the habit.

I think all the anti-drunk driving talk in the last twenty years is a result of a latter day anti-saloon league, and they are using drunk driving as a proxy to ban drinking.

All my public nudity has been in dark secluded beaches, very late at night - and in fact makes me a criminal. Most of my drinking is done in government-regulated smokey rooms among other drinkers.

I am simply advocating a more civil tone to public discussion, which makes people feel generally more comfortable... which is essentially the same reason there is zero tolerance for me feeling up my hot co-workers - are you in support of public ass-grabbing?

Or would that just be a way of expressing myself?

[ 22 July 2005: Message edited by: Deep Dish ]


From: halfway between the gutter and the stars | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 22 July 2005 10:33 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by gunnar gunnarson:
Before I knew it I'd just snapped my head around and fixed him with a look that -- no shit -- prompted him to apologize immediately. He threw in a "sir" on top of that.

"Sir?" When did I get old?


When you started glaring at swearing teenagers. Seriously though - I don't like it either if I'm sitting on a bus with my kid, and people are all "fucking this, fucking that" right next to him. And I generally curb it around children, or in places where it's really inappropriate, like church, or meetings at work or whatever.

Babble, however, is a discussion board for people of all walks of life. It's a conversational place with an adult-comprehension level of communication. We assume that people who come to babble are not only grown-ups (or precocious teens), but people who don't pull class trips on each other, and people who find oppressive attitudes to be obscene rather than the occasional swear word.

Apparently at places like The Dark Site, you can say any racist, sexist, homophobic thing you like, as long as you don't swear, because swearing is against the rules.

Here on babble, we value substance over form. Most of us recognize that swear words are just words that are used to denote strong feeling (or sometimes humour or sarcasm), and that it's part of a rich variety of expression.

People who get their panties in a knot over someone telling a homophobe to "fuck off" is someone who values form over substance, because they think that as long as you say it without swearing, it's not as offensive as a justified angry response to oppression.

As a committed lefty, I oppose that kind of thinking. Angry responses to oppression are justified.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6438

posted 22 July 2005 10:34 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Nevertheless, I don't see why someone elses habits or norms should automatically become mine

I don't think that the person with manners that dictate no swearing should automatically trump yours unless you are dealing with pretty specific situations i.e. you are in their home, they are a customer, you are in a relationship where you are a superior, you are swearing AT someone (not in front of them)

I think, however, if you are speaking with someone and swearing at them you have to accept that they don't have an obligation to listen. In real life I just remove myself from the situation from the most part. I don't ask the person not to swear except in select situations.

quote:
Because about 90% of the people who you seem to think I'm wounding by my use of the venerable old F-word would think absolutely nothing of offending me with words like "Jesus" and "Saviour", and even if asked would not strike those particular words from the public vocabulary.


Why are those words offensive to you please? Is there a specific context?

quote:
Oh, and Ron? We should refrain from prayer in school. I trust you agree? Separation of church and state and all that? Anyone who wants to pray has Saturday and Sunday, all day both days. That should be enough for anyone, no?

I'm not Ron but...I think students have the right to pray in school but I don't think it should be required or anything organized.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3582

posted 22 July 2005 10:46 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Apparently at places like The Dark Site, you can say any racist, sexist, homophobic thing you like, as long as you don't swear, because swearing is against the rules.

Here on babble, we value substance over form.


Abso-fucking-lutely.


From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Suzette
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7708

posted 22 July 2005 10:51 PM      Profile for Suzette     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Michelle: beautifully said! Straight to the top of the class!

Originally posted by Hailey:

quote:
quote: Because about 90% of the people who you seem to think I'm wounding by my use of the venerable old F-word would think absolutely nothing of offending me with words like "Jesus" and "Saviour", and even if asked would not strike those particular words from the public vocabulary.

Why are those words offensive to you please? Is there a specific context?


I'd have to agree with Mr Magoo here, Hailey. I find that kind of religious talk rather hard to stomach, but because it's religion it's completely taboo to ask that they shut the hell up with that guff. Swearing is a part of my culture and upbringing. I -- quite seriously -- was raised by sailors. Swearing is not something I feel passionately about, but it's a part of my natural expression; a part of who I am. I try to be sensitive to the sensibilities of those around me when choosing my language, but I wonder if Christians or others would extend to me the same courtesy (particularly without me having to go into a great and long-winded justification of my reasons for feeling that way). Not in my experience.

From: Pig City | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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Babbler # 3292

posted 22 July 2005 10:52 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Have you ever inadvertently swore at somebody with whom you were having a heated discussion and had them simply recoil as if they had never heard the word Fzck or shzt.
From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3582

posted 22 July 2005 10:54 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Suzette:
. I find that kind of religious talk rather hard to stomach, but because it's religion it's completely taboo to ask that they shut the hell up with that guff.

Hell, the easiest way to get rid of god-botherers at the door is to tell them to fuck off. Works a treat.


From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9050

posted 22 July 2005 10:59 PM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree, I'm a lot more offended when someone starts preaching religion at me than if the same person was to swear at me. I don't tell them what I think about religion, so I'd appreciate if they kept Jesus out of the conversation.

[ 22 July 2005: Message edited by: Nikita ]


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Suzette
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7708

posted 22 July 2005 11:00 PM      Profile for Suzette     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by fern hill:

Hell, the easiest way to get rid of god-botherers at the door is to tell them to fuck off. Works a treat.


Sorry, my typo. I meant to say "...ask that they shut the fuck up...".

quote:
Originally posted by BleedingHeart :
Have you ever inadvertently swore at somebody with whom you were having a heated discussion and had them simply recoil as if they had never heard the word Fzck or shzt.
Absolutely. I was having a very important argument with my sister once, one that had been brewing for years, and during the course of it I let the "c" word drop. It killed the whole conversation as she fixated on this one damn word, this sound. Aaargh! So the issue still hasn't been resolved as a result. Lesson: swearing is sometimes very bad.

From: Pig City | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6438

posted 22 July 2005 11:05 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'd have to agree with Mr Magoo here, Hailey. I find that kind of religious talk rather hard to stomach, but because it's religion it's completely taboo to ask that they shut the hell up with that guff. .... but I wonder if Christians or others would extend to me the same courtesy (particularly without me having to go into a great and long-winded justification of my reasons for feeling that way). Not in my experience.

I am not disagreeing with Magoo. I was just interested in the context. If someone is speaking within earshot to someone who is interested about their faith, events at church etc is that offensive? Or is he referring - or you for that matter - with people who are prothletizing?

If someone's prothletizing to you then I think you have the right to make the person aware you are not interested.

Quite honestly I was pretty much CLUELESS that everyone did feel the way I did or want to talk about God as much as I did until I went to University. I sensed in the earliest weeks that it wasn't an area of interest for most people and I learned without tonnes of cuing that it was unwelcomed.

That being said I probably use christian terminology without even thinking of it because it's as natural as breathing. I don't strive to impose it on people though as I sense it rubs some people the wrong way.

That being said - for right or for wrong and it probably is wrong - it's been a wonderful tool at times. My husband went to public schools participated in non-christian sports and attended a number of things without ties to the church so many of his friendships don't have the commonality of religion. Some of his friends from dorms came to town and were looking for a place to stay. I knew that our house would basically be a pit-stop for their drinking festivities which I didn't want. I am PRETTY BAD about confrontational things so rather than explain I don't like that behaviour in my home it was much easier to explain to them that I was really REALLY looking forward to them staying with us, that I understood that they weren't Christian, that I wondered if they had heard the gospel, and I wanted to talk to them about Jesus Christ and help them making a personal commitment and lead them in the Sinner's prayer.

They never came

Works like a charm!


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3582

posted 22 July 2005 11:09 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
Gee, god-botherers are devious. Who knew?
From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 22 July 2005 11:13 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ha! I actually think that's a pretty good solution. Reminds me of Magoo's strategy for getting a seat to himself on the bus.

"Is that seat taken?"
"Only by my personal saviour, Jesus!"


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3582

posted 22 July 2005 11:20 PM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
My sister had imaginary friends, and I enjoyed sitting on them.
From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Suzette
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7708

posted 22 July 2005 11:21 PM      Profile for Suzette     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hailey, that is very, very funny!
From: Pig City | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 22 July 2005 11:23 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Why are those words offensive to you please? Is there a specific context?

Just the proselytizing.

Aside: when I was a kid, swearing in the house was discouraged. The sole exception, and it was made explicitly, was when fishing. Among us cousins, fishin' time was cussin' time. We could pack enough filthy language into one weekend to make a stevedore blush.


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
puzzlic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9646

posted 22 July 2005 11:27 PM      Profile for puzzlic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
They never came

Works like a charm!



[drift]Like most nonbelievers, I guess, I hate being proselytized. If a polite "No thanks" doesn't do the trick, I have a fallback strategy that has, thus far, proven 100% effective: "Actually, I'm a Muslim." They go away. At a lively clip, too. [/drift]

[ 22 July 2005: Message edited by: puzzlic ]


From: it's too damn hot | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 22 July 2005 11:30 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That wouldn't work in the neighbourhoods I've lived in here in Toronto. In Thorncliffe Park and in the highrises I lived in here in the central west area, there were a lot of Muslims. So I think they train missionaries specifically in witnessing to Muslims.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
puzzlic
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Babbler # 9646

posted 22 July 2005 11:33 PM      Profile for puzzlic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Darn. It worked in Chinatown, Little Italy and the Annex up to 3 years ago. I thought I had found the ultimate evangelist-repellent.

[ 22 July 2005: Message edited by: puzzlic ]


From: it's too damn hot | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 22 July 2005 11:49 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, I'm not a Muslim, so I'm not positive about that. But when I lived in Thorncliffe Park, we got tons of JWs coming to the door. And there's now a Mormon temple at Eglinton and Don Mills that I think was being built around the time I left the neighbourhood, so I imagine the proselytizing has probably picked up there since it was built as well. And when I lived in Thorncliffe Park, my impression was that it was pretty strongly populated with Muslims - so much so that they built a Mosque there, and there are lots of specialty clothing and food stores. And my building was heavily targeted, despite the fact that there were many, many Muslims living there. My ex was a Muslim when he came to Canada (he converted to Xty before I met him - not my fault! ), and he told me that he even agreed to go to a bible study or information meeting of some sort, and there were other Muslims at it.

I used to invite the proselytizers in occasionally, but now I don't bother. I just tell them I'm not interested and ask them to cross my address off their list. There was this one guy from my old church, a funny, personable, but very fundamentalist and "witnessing" sort of guy. He loved it when they came to the door, because then he'd try to convert THEM. And he was so convincing that they often left with some serious doubts to ponder.

[ 22 July 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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Babbler # 2256

posted 22 July 2005 11:56 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
For instance, what about nudity?...
And what about drinking?...

I'm not sure how drinking figures into Babble policy, but as for nudity, are you saying that there isn't already zero tolerance for nudity here? Because I have some pretty raunchy pictures, and I'm thinkin' maybe I should test the limits.

But seriously: take your straw man argument somewhere else. If you want to argue for or against a total ban on public nudity, go ahead, but it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. We're talkin' Babble here, not society as a whole.

quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Here on babble, we value substance over form. Most of us recognize that swear words are just words that are used to denote strong feeling (or sometimes humour or sarcasm), and that it's part of a rich variety of expression.
This is much like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. Yes indeed, substance is important, but any good writer will tell you that the words used to convey that substance are also critically important. Obscenities do connote strong feeling -- and that is just about their only grammatical purpose. They are called "intensifiers", and they do exactly what the word suggests. Like guns, their use inevitably escalates any kind of conflict. They can take a relatively harmless difference of opinion and transform it into a flame war.

For instance: suppose that instead of an earlier sentence, I had written something like, "take your fucking straw man and shove it sideways up your cunt, whore" -- with appropriate usage of block capitals and exclamation points -- do you think your reaction might have been a tad different? Don't you think things would get out of hand pretty quickly? And yet it's exactly the same substance, isn't it?


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
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Babbler # 3582

posted 23 July 2005 12:13 AM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
Just exactly what is your problem, Ron Webb? Michelle was being sarcastic, I believe, not setting up a straw man. Zero tolerance is simple and simplistic, is what I think she was saying. Real life, even e-life here on babble, is more complicated.
From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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Babbler # 9050

posted 23 July 2005 12:16 AM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wow. It's interesting how two people can read the same post and get such radically different ideas.

I'm almost positive Michelle was being sarcastic about the zero tolerance thing.


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
gunnar gunnarson
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Babbler # 8547

posted 23 July 2005 12:26 AM      Profile for gunnar gunnarson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:

If someone's prothletizing to you then I think you have the right to make the person aware you are not interested.


Reminds me of a lapel button I had when I was in grad school: If I Agree With You, Will You Shut Up?


From: audra's corner | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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posted 23 July 2005 12:26 AM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
She was being sarcastic by using a straw man argument -- implying that my position is equivalent to her absurd suggestions.
From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
fern hill
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Babbler # 3582

posted 23 July 2005 12:31 AM      Profile for fern hill        Edit/Delete Post
Ah, you did get the point then.
From: away | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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Babbler # 6438

posted 23 July 2005 12:51 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Cunt is probably a word best avoided in an example.
From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fed
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Babbler # 8926

posted 23 July 2005 03:41 AM      Profile for Fed        Edit/Delete Post
Nudity? on Babble?

Uh.... short of a web-cam, how could anyone tell?


From: http://babblestrike.lbprojects.com/ | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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Babbler # 5474

posted 23 July 2005 05:47 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bobolink:
Ever notice how swearing diminishes the intellectual stature of the person employing it? There are a lot of people on Babble that I ignore because of their interminable use of vulgar language.


Actually I do notice that, that's why I said it up thread. While I've come across a lot of intelligent people on this board who swear a lot. Those who I notice swear a lot in real life, in any and all circumstances, really aren't that intelligent. They sort of remind me of the Trailer Park Boys, just not as funny.


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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Babbler # 7024

posted 23 July 2005 06:07 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by fern hill:
Hell, the easiest way to get rid of god-botherers at the door is to tell them to fuck off. Works a treat.

Coming on to them works pretty well, too. I just turn and call (as if to my boyfriend), "Honey, there's the juiciest pair of Mormon boys at the door. Are we interested?"

They tend to run away.

As for the swearing, the only trouble I see with it is the people on the sidewalk outside my house who scream to companions, "Yo! Fuckin' wait up, you guys!" and the like... at all hours.

I could care less, but I do wonder what neighbors who have little kids think about it. My brother-(sort of)-in-law lives a few blocks up the street and has four- and two-year-old daughters. I'm sure he's already had to explain to them why "sweetie, you had no way of knowing this, so Daddy isn't mad, but we don't use the word 'cocksucker' in this house."


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
James
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Babbler # 5341

posted 23 July 2005 08:25 AM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post
Sorry for a wee drift, but, damnit, Hailey, you've got me curious. What are these "non-Christian sports" in which your husband formerly participated ? " (your 11:05 post of yesterday) And, where can one sign-up ?
From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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Babbler # 7791

posted 23 July 2005 08:43 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If there's non-Christian sports, then one must assume there are also 'Christian' sports. I'm curious - what might *these* be?

My experience as a liberal Anglican is that _evangelicals_ generally oppose sports, because 1) sports are closely associated with drinking and gambling, 2) because play was considered frivolous, and 3), for many, Sunday - the Christian sabbath - is when most can get out to enjoy their favourite sports. So, what 'Christian' sports might there be, considering the above?


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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Babbler # 7024

posted 23 July 2005 09:05 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
So, what 'Christian' sports might there be, considering the above?

There's always cross-bearing.

[ 23 July 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Suzette
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Babbler # 7708

posted 23 July 2005 09:19 AM      Profile for Suzette     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Lion-dodging.
From: Pig City | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Debra
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Babbler # 117

posted 23 July 2005 09:24 AM      Profile for Debra   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ron which is the heavier burden?

Your smug arrogance or your sense of moral superiority?

In other news

dateline babble July 2005

Someone has dropped the "F" bombEveryone remain calm. We will stop this attack by swear words, we know those that use them are less moral and less intelligent than we are.
"Oh won't someone please think of the children?" is heard from the crowd. Mam someone already has, it was dropped in a childfree zone. Oh what's the problem then?
THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!! Why the problem is if people start thinking that racist, sexist, homophobic words are more worrisome than swearing they'll begin to realize that what you are saying is far more important than how you say it.
Now everyone duct tape their moral superiority to their stuffed shirt, put a stick up your a$$ and lets continue the fight against the ever present danger of the "F" bomb.
Never forget if we allow this swearing to continue, the terrorists have won.


From: The only difference between graffiti & philosophy is the word fuck... | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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Babbler # 6718

posted 23 July 2005 10:07 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Debra:
Ron which is the heavier burden?

Your smug arrogance or your sense of moral superiority?[/i]


I think it's the stick up his ass.

Oh, excuse me. I meant to say the fucking stick up his piehole.

The best thing about swearing?

It annoys all the right people. Some of the wrong people too, of course.

By the way, the "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" is an urban legend. It also doesn't make any sense. The "For" is superfluous. If I were writing up an offense log would I put:

Smith - For drunkeness
Jones - For petty theft
Anderson - For falling asleep on duty
Webb - For unlawful carnal knowledge

Or would I write:

Smith - drunkeness
Jones - petty theft
Anderson - falling asleep on duty
Webb - unlawful carnal knowledge

It would be UCK. Or you might say "Webb was arrested for UCK." Not "Webb was arrested FUCK."

For more on the origins of fuck and the urban legend, see http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/fuck.htm


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938

posted 23 July 2005 10:11 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm going to go out on limb here and agree with Ron Webb's position on this issue. This is a first!

I avoid antagonistic swearing and name-calling on babble. And I put those 2 in the same boat. Please note the word "antagonistic". I'm not against swearing. Hell, no!

When I see a poster that I like and agree with tell a troll "fuck off" or "you're an idiot", I admit, I wince. Not because I'm disagreeing with the issue or the poster, but because my educator-self and my be-respectful-of-others self knows that if no debate was possible before, then it for sure will not be possible anymore. And yes, this applies to trolls who I have found from their posts are not being respectful or civil.

I enjoy and contribute to threads here that do not degenerate into name-calling and "fuck offing" (hey, a new verb) *much* more than the other kind. That's me.

To be clear, I'm not telling anyone how to post, or claiming anything about more or less morality. That's not the issue.

Posting is different than a conversation in person, and a heated argumentative posting is *way* different than a heated argument in person. There's an emotional distance that comes with cyber-arguing with someone who you'll never meet or think you'll never meet. That makes it easier, in my mind, to be more forceful and disrespectful than one might otherwise be.

I had a strange feeling when I met some of the Toronto babblers last weekend, because it made everybody much more real to me, and less like the connection that I have the majority of the time which is through my computer screen.


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 23 July 2005 10:19 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
Oh, excuse me. I meant to say the fucking stick up his piehole.

I thought "piehole" meant mouth. I think you might be thinking of "cornhole". (A word that makes me turn green just typing it. Bleah!)


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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Babbler # 7791

posted 23 July 2005 10:27 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Suzette:
Lion-dodging.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
gunnar gunnarson
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Babbler # 8547

posted 23 July 2005 10:48 AM      Profile for gunnar gunnarson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Evildoer-smiting.
From: audra's corner | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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Babbler # 6438

posted 23 July 2005 10:53 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Coming on to them works pretty well, too. I just turn and call (as if to my boyfriend), "Honey, there's the juiciest pair of Mormon boys at the door. Are we interested?"

You seriously say this?

I can't imagine they'd do anything but faint.

quote:
Hailey, you've got me curious. What are these "non-Christian sports" in which your husband formerly participated ?

Oh! I didn't explain well. I meant that he participated on just community teams. In my family you attended "Christian soccer" "Christian hockey camp" and so forth. My husband was more integrated.

And boom boom I'm surprised by your experience as most Christians I know really put emphasis on having their sons in sports. They just work very hard to make sure drinking, gambling and the like aren't included. There are christian sports ministries that are multiple and pervasive so I don't think that's my isolated experience.

quote:
Posting is different than a conversation in person, and a heated argumentative posting is *way* different than a heated argument in person. There's an emotional distance that comes with cyber-arguing with someone who you'll never meet or think you'll never meet

There might be some truth to that but I don't think you can make a sweeping generalization.. I know for MYSELF I'd be more likely to be bold in person (not swearing, just being bold)

[ 23 July 2005: Message edited by: Hailey ]


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 23 July 2005 10:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I had a strange feeling when I met some of the Toronto babblers last weekend,

Hey! I can relate to that.

I've sort of wanted to say something a very teensy weensy bit kind of like what bcg just said. *cough*

I swear sometimes -- just yesterday I swore at another babbler who is not even a troll; he's just a man , but he had just given me an order in the feminism forum, so I gave him an order back.

It's not the words that bother me -- it's that most profanity implies an absolute position, a dismissal of any complex thought at all, and that often bothers me. Sometimes it isn't even the swearing directed against other babblers that brings me up short -- it might be an oversimplified view of a historical figure who's dismissed as an f'in' whatever.

I might decide to argue against a comment like that -- or I might just scroll past it, figuring that oversimplifications just aren't worth the time and effort.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
James
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5341

posted 23 July 2005 11:19 AM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
Oh! I didn't explain well. I meant that he participated on just community teams.

Oh, I see. And here I was thinking, "How open-minded of Hailey that she's able to get past his history of nekkid coed mud wrestling!"


From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 23 July 2005 11:21 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
When I see a poster that I like and agree with tell a troll "fuck off" or "you're an idiot", I admit, I wince. Not because I'm disagreeing with the issue or the poster, but because my educator-self and my be-respectful-of-others self knows that if no debate was possible before, then it for sure will not be possible anymore.

But that is exactly what I am trying to accomplish. When someone does not respect my equality rights I want them to know I will show them no respect of any kind. None whatsoever. Complete and utter contempt. Wouldn't lift a finger to save them if they were drowning.

If you do not respect my equality rights, you don't consider me human. No matter how "politely" they think they are expressing it, they are expresing an obscenity far more grave than any possible combination of the 26 letters of the alphabet on a computer screen.

And they are utterly incapable of understanding the hatefulness of what they are expressing. But they understand that when I say "fuck you" it means I hate them. At the very least they will understand that their opinions on the rights of others are not acceptable, even for discussion, by at least one person.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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Babbler # 7791

posted 23 July 2005 11:34 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A mild expletive I hear sometimes, usually spoken softly, is "Jesus Murphy", and usually when things go very, very wrong. What is this? I wonder if it originated with the Irish?
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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Babbler # 3276

posted 23 July 2005 11:37 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fed:
The word "fucking," used as an adjective, is apparently not considered a swear word anywhere near as much in Ireland as it is in Canada. . . My daughter started repeating my expletive. My husband, a quick thinker, picked up a utensil and said "No no, FORK, this is a FORK."

I can identify with that. However, there is no doubt that our granddaughter will keep hearing "oh, oh, granny used the f-word." Better to learn the word from granny than on the playground, no?
quote:
Originally posted by bigcitygal:
(slight thread drift)
The funniest button I ever saw was an anti-Xmas button that had a sprig of holly on it and it said "Merry Fucking Christmas".


I liked that one too, but even better was the one my daughter wore: "A boy growing up thinking he's God is an everyday event."
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Yeah, zero tolerance is just easier for just about everything!

And don't light up a cigarette where your kid might smell it, or I'll report you to the Children's Aid.
(end of thread drift)

[ 24 July 2005: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
James
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Babbler # 5341

posted 23 July 2005 11:58 AM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post
I have actually seen cussin' accomplish amazing things. In the late 70's, I was erecting a pole shed for a rather mangey batchelor dairy farmer near Redwater AB. At one of the excavations, the kelly-bar hole digger went down about 4 of the necessary 6 feet, then started bouncing on some solid obstacle and progressing no further. The operator tried every trick in the book to break, dislodge or get past it, and finally gave up.

I advised the customer that I'd have to bring in a back-hoe to finish that hole, at his extra expense. "just a fukkin' minute" he responded. With that, he got down on his hands and knees, stuck his head down into the hole, and let loose with a continuos three minute stream of the foulest epithets I have ever, ever heard. And I don't think he ueven used the same word twice. He then got to his feet, and asked the operator to try again.

After just a couple of revolutions, we heard crunching sounds and chunks of old creosoted railroad tie started coming up. Soon the hole was finished. Now, language that could "blister paint" paint is one thing, but literally pulverize timber !!!

Saw it with my own eyes.

[ 23 July 2005: Message edited by: James ]


From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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Babbler # 2256

posted 24 July 2005 12:41 AM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
The best thing about swearing?

It annoys all the right people. Some of the wrong people too, of course.



LOL! Oh RB, surely you're not imagining that I am personally offended by your attacks!? No, I'm a veteran of many a flame war, and nothing fazes me anymore. As I'm sure are most of the "right people" who would be willing to take you on.

IMHO the people most likely to be offended by your crude language would be the newbies and lurkers who are looking for a place for serious discussion of important issues. How likely do you think they would be to hang around after a whiff of your verbal diarrhea?

I'm not personally concerned about it, but I'm surprised that the moderators don't seem to be. You pretty much admitted above that you regularly violate their Policy Statement (e.g., "repeated attempts to provoke conflict, bait or taunt will not be tolerated").


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 24 July 2005 05:40 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
Ron, I couldn't give a flying fuck if you're offended or not. I dismissed you long ago as a worthless asshole, and you've never given me the slightest reason to change my opinion. You're not the right people. You're not the wrong people. You're a non-person.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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Babbler # 7024

posted 24 July 2005 05:51 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
Ron, I couldn't give a flying fuck if....

Now there's an expression that has long fascinated me. Am I the only one who pictures some manner of coupling that involves a trapeze?


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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Babbler # 5594

posted 24 July 2005 06:17 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It's funny, because I can never remember running out the door to play hide and go fuck ourselves when we were kids. Your mother is so fat one-liners were the best I could conjure up then.
From: Viva La Revolucin | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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Babbler # 7024

posted 24 July 2005 06:22 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
It's funny, because I can never remember running out the door to play hide and go fuck ourselves when we were kids. Your mother is so fat one-liners were the best I could conjure up then.

We live on one of the major migration routes to and from a local elementary school. Coming home in the afternoon those kids set up a cacophony of cussin' such as I've never heard before in all my born days.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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Babbler # 6438

posted 24 July 2005 08:31 AM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I'm not personally concerned about it, but I'm surprised that the moderators don't seem to be. You pretty much admitted above that you regularly violate their Policy Statement (e.g., "repeated attempts to provoke conflict, bait or taunt will not be tolerated").

How is constantly probing this issue and causing conflict to re-surface not a violation of the same policy statement?


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 24 July 2005 12:39 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I worked in a sawmill for a couple of years in my early twenties. Other than a few women in the admin. side of things, there were very few women at all in the plant and it showed. In those days an all male workplace [a sawmill in rural Vancouver Island] was a swearing workplace. I don't know if anyone has made the point on this thread but swearing was part of "macho" culture and for me wanting women to feel welcome meant that I should make the effort to avoid lots of swearing. Of course the world has changed and lots of women swear "with the best of them."

In the sawmill we even used to hum a song, usually around strike time, to the tune of "It's so easy to fall in love" except that the lyric was "It's so easy to fuck the dog!" Swearing was an act of solidarity or workplace resistance ["fucking the dog" meant working poorly or badly] in that context. After my time in the mill it took a very long time to get my "cussin" down to a decent level. I mean it literally took years.

The usefulness of swearing, in my view, is inversely proportional to its frequency of use. I like to save it for special occassions. It's also (often) undignified as al-Qa'bong noted already.

Our friend RealityBites substantiates swearing as a "template for trolls" and the like but I am much less comfortable with that because I've seen myself misunderstand other contributors on babble too many times. I don't have his serene confidence in my own understanding but then I haven't had to deal with being on the receiving end of homophobia either.

[ 24 July 2005: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2256

posted 24 July 2005 01:54 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
How is constantly probing this issue and causing conflict to re-surface not a violation of the same policy statement?

What issue?

From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6438

posted 24 July 2005 02:16 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Certain babblers swearing, that topic. You can't seem to let it rest.
From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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Babbler # 7050

posted 24 July 2005 03:53 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Swearing on the internet is hip and cool.

Just add a few lol, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111onronornoeneone, WTFZOMGBBQ, 1337, pwnd and n00bz and you've got yourself a winner (or weiner).


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2256

posted 24 July 2005 05:10 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hailey:
Certain babblers swearing, that topic. You can't seem to let it rest.
This makes my eighth post to this topic. You have already posted nine times.

If "certain babblers" refers specifically to RealityBites (and if so, why not say so?), then I don't see how it can be a violation of Babble Policy to point out when someone is violating Babble Policy. If he'd quit violating it, I'd quit pointing it out.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scout
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1595

posted 24 July 2005 05:15 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
If he'd quit violating it, I'd quit pointing it out.

Your actually supposed to email Audra if you feel another babbler has violated policy, not post about it over and over. You have been here long enough to know that.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 24 July 2005 06:45 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Now there's an expression that has long fascinated me. Am I the only one who pictures some manner of coupling that involves a trapeze?


Never did before but now....

From: Canton Marchand, Qubec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 24 July 2005 08:15 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Webb:
This makes my eighth post to this topic. You have already posted nine times.

If "certain babblers" refers specifically to RealityBites (and if so, why not say so?), then I don't see how it can be a violation of Babble Policy to point out when someone is violating Babble Policy. If he'd quit violating it, I'd quit pointing it out.


Fuck off, you fatuous twit.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2256

posted 24 July 2005 10:21 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:
Your actually supposed to email Audra if you feel another babbler has violated policy, not post about it over and over. You have been here long enough to know that.
When I said that I'm not personally offended by flames, I really meant it. I'm not going to go squealing to the teacher every time some schoolyard bully calls me nasty names.

Besides, I don't want to single out anyone in particular. RB may be one of the most virulent, but there are at least half a dozen regulars on Babble who use similar tactics to incite others. Audra is fully aware of what goes on here. She can deal with it, or not, as she likes.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 25 July 2005 07:12 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This has gone on long enough. Also, RB, Ron Webb hasn't done anything in this thread to warrant your constant flaming. If you have a problem with something he's written elsewhere, send me a PM with the URL and a quote. It's one thing to say we don't want to ban swearing, but it's another thing to constantly attack someone.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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