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Author Topic: NHL is bad for hockey
gram swaraj
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posted 19 December 2006 08:44 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All that flying they do. And nothing done to combat greenhouse gas emissions, other than advertise SUVs.

After the outdoor game dies (and it will soon, due to warmer winters), the professional game will soon follow.

Ice hockey in Canada will just be a past-time for kids whose parents were rich enough to buy equipment and drive them all over the place(emitting GHGs) to their games. It will have no more popular appeal, like soccer does in Brazil.

[ETA- Clarification of last sentence above:

As outdoor ice time loses out to global warming, hockey will have diminishing popular appeal in Canada. Soccer enjoys popular appeal in Brazil because kids can get out and just play it for fun. As for ice hockey in Canada, season upon season, fewer kids are able to enjoy the outdoor game.

Roch Carrier said: “Les hivers de mon enfance étaient des saisons longues, longues. Nous vivions en trois lieux: l’école, l’église, et la patinoire, mais la vraie vie était sur la patinoire.” (See a five dollar bill for a translation.)]

[ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lego Guy
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posted 20 December 2006 12:05 PM      Profile for Lego Guy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hockey ("ice hockey" is an American term) will never die in Canada. It is part of the Canadian psyche. Hockey is the one subject that unites all Canadians. There is too much passion for hockey to die in Canada.

Even people who are turned off by the greedy professional athletes in the NHL will still find time to play a pick-up game on a pond in the weekend or join a beer league.

Yes, hockey is getting more expensive for parents but it is not at the stage where only the ultra-rich kids are the only ones who benefit. Most of todays NHL stars, including Sidney Crosby, come from middle class backgrounds.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
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posted 20 December 2006 12:09 PM      Profile for Caissa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't wait for the World Junior to begin on the 26th. I also hope we have Spengler Cup coverage again this year. Hockey is too embedded in the Canadian psyche to disappear. I spent my youth being Ken Dryden in countless ball hockey games.
From: Saint John | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 20 December 2006 12:10 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While climate change will surely impact the popularity of hockey, blaming the NHL themselves for it is a bit of a stretch. NHL stars hardly have a monopoly on SUVs and flying. They're just kids who suddenly have a shitload of money. No one told them about climate change.

What do you propose, gram? Getting rid of the NHL? Gary Bettman's already doing a pretty good job of that.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scout
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posted 20 December 2006 01:45 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It will have no more popular appeal, like soccer does in Brazil.

Huh? They won the World Cup in 2002. I don't by this premise at all, I think they like football there just fine.


From: Toronto, ON Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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posted 20 December 2006 01:53 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually even before global warming most of Canada only got 2-3 months of skateable ice.

Hockey did not take off until the introduction of artificial ice in indoor arenas.


From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lego Guy
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posted 20 December 2006 01:59 PM      Profile for Lego Guy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:

Huh? They won the World Cup in 2002. I don't by this premise at all, I think they like football there just fine.


I think what gram swaraj meant was...

"It will have no more popular appeal, unlike soccer does in Brazil."


From: Edmonton | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 20 December 2006 06:21 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brantford Ontario hasn't been cold enough in the last few winters to even make a backyard ice rink, according to David Suzuki. Between the weather and a lack of municipal funding across Northern Ontario, outdoor ice rinks are in trouble. Outdoor rinks have been important for kids learning how to skate every Saturday since I was young. There have been a number of NHL'ers from my hometown in Northern Ontario who frequented the city's outdoor rinks as youngsters.

Two Canadian skiers have said recently that they've been chasing snow-covered slopes around the world and finding shorter and shorter seasons at the world's best ski resorts in recent years. David Suzuki says, this is the canary in the mineshaft, so to speak.

[ 20 December 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 27 December 2006 12:47 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anybody see the movie about Maurice Richard, The Rocket ?. Apparently they started out calling him "the comet." Aside from the ongoing culture clash, I had no idea he had such a difficult time making the team in the beginning. The newspapers said the club had recruited a lemon after Richard's leg was broken early in his career.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 24 February 2007 01:46 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
What do you propose, gram? Getting rid of the NHL?

Glad you asked. How about the NHL start buying some quality carbon offsets to make up for all the flights they take?

ETA: the carbon offsets should not go to the funding of GM trees

[ 24 February 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
marzo
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posted 24 February 2007 05:17 AM      Profile for marzo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How can the NHL make a profit from teams in Carolina, Nashville, Dallas and other places where people don't know and don't care about hockey? Can a profit motive exist in these places? The NHL clouldn't make enough money in Winnipeg and Quebec, so how can they make money in places with no fan base?
From: toronto | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 24 February 2007 11:12 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The only people who can afford to own these teams are billionaires or billionaire interests. I imagine they're breaking even in some ways but still cry poor mouth to the city and feds. It's a great way to lose money and blow up your ego while advertising at the same time. The owners love to associate their faces and companies with real stars and real talent. It's a way of connecting with the little people on some level.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 24 February 2007 12:57 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An American city like Dallas has around 10 times the population of Winipeg, the population is richer, and the population pays American dollars.

Additionally, american teams often get subsidized by the government. I don't see why professional sports get subsidized anywhere to be honest with you, but deals for hundreds of millions of dollars on stadiums is very common down there.

All this though, and the United states still has only four times the hockey teams as Canada, but with ten times the population.


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 24 February 2007 01:07 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But average attendance in Detroit has been higher than in Dallas this year. And Detroit City's economy isn't very prosperous with a third of them living below the poverty line.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 24 February 2007 02:47 PM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, and if two thirds of them are above the poverty line that means roughly 3 million people who can afford to go to games..
From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 24 February 2007 03:31 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Homelessness, poverty on the rise in Detroit counties

There are some parts of Detroit that look like they've been through a war.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Farmpunk
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posted 24 February 2007 04:11 PM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sports Illustrated (Canada's version, which means a hockey story every now and then) had a story by Micheal Farber a couple weeks back, all about the south east teams, in non-hockey climes. From what Farber says, to attract fans to the game it's played specificlaly for speed, violence, and scoring. As one GM put it to Farber: This is Nascar country. There are fights, feuds, and a lot of aggresive forechecking and rushes.

Detroit likely draws many fans from southern Ontario.

Hockey is out of reach of most kids anymore. I've heard some outrageous sums for some of the Toronto youth hockey leauges.

[ 24 February 2007: Message edited by: Farmpunk ]


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 24 February 2007 04:22 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
Yes, and if two thirds of them are above the poverty line that means roughly 3 million people who can afford to go to games..

There are not 3 million people in Detroit who can afford to attend every Red Wing game. Like most hockey cities, it's relatively small number with a certain percentage of them being frequent game goers. And some number of those will have season's tickets.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 24 February 2007 04:32 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is really sad is the destruction of the Penguins franchise: Traditionally Pittsburgh was one of the big hockey towns, and naturally so, given its long winters, and natural winter sports environment. However, the market was destroyed after the steal industry collapsed, and the working class population driven out of town or into poverty.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 24 February 2007 05:06 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sheffield, England too. Square blocks after square blocks of steel works as far as the eye can see, all closed down. Sheffield steel was world renowned at one time.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 30 March 2007 10:07 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What difference does it make cheering for a team from a place that snows, if it doesn't even f*cking snow anymore? Sure we still get the big dumps and severe cold snaps, but winter weather is getting more volatile, and over the long run, OBVIOUSLY WARMER.

Why is the NHL bad for hockey? Just look at the auto advertisements.

Has the NHL brass thought of at least buying WELL-RESEARCHED carbon offsets to make up for all the flying teams do?


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 03 April 2007 06:41 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
POLL:

How much OUTDOOR ice-time has been ruined for you this "winter" because of unseasonally warm weather?


PS: The main objective of this thread is to encourage people to pressure the corporate-run NHL (the stupid fucks) to do something to counter global warming.

[ 03 April 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 03 April 2007 10:07 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
PS: The main objective of this thread is to encourage people to pressure the corporate-run NHL (the stupid fucks) to do something to counter global warming.[/QB]

How about looking at something that actually contributes significantly to global warming, like Chinese coal burning?

The NHL probably contributes 0.000000000000001% to the problem. Attacking the NHL is like shooting the neighbor's dog for contributing to a metropolitan sewage problem because it took a dump on the street.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 03 April 2007 10:40 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think Europeans fly the most and take the most vacation time. I think they could fix that by switching to first-past-the-post and importing western political and economic ideology.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 04 April 2007 12:51 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Q. has our Canadian teams and Stanley Cup thread been deleted? If so, very bad decision.

OOOOOps,
here it is, with new thread title:
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002354

[ 04 April 2007: Message edited by: Geneva ]


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 04 April 2007 12:56 AM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not deleted exactly. Only switched to who people think will make it as far as the semi-finals this year, instead. Since it doesn't look like any of the Canadian teams will be seeded in the top half of the payoffs this year, except technically the Vancouver one-stars, and that's when it starts getting really interesting. Thanx to salary caps, lots of other contenders this year. If others prefer I can switch it back and delete my last post instead.

[ 04 April 2007: Message edited by: EriKtheHalfaRed ]


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 05 April 2007 09:08 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
How about looking at something that actually contributes significantly to global warming, like Chinese coal burning?
.

The North American lifestyle contributes THE most significantly to global warming - especially on a per capita basis. Watching the NHL is part of that lifestyle.

I'm not saying following hockey is bad, but the NHL brass should show some gratitude for the roots of the game, and utilize the public exposure the NHL gets towards raising awareness and combatting greenhouse gas emissions.

[ 05 April 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
trippie
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posted 09 April 2007 09:02 PM      Profile for trippie        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
the NHL sucks and I have stopped supporting it... I think they should put a bunch of clowns on the ice banging each other around and getting into fights and then after a set amount of time they have a shot out and how ever wins it gets a point...

O wait...thats what they do now...oooppss sorry please disregard my opinion....


nothing to see here folks, move along, move along......

[ 09 April 2007: Message edited by: trippie ]

[ 09 April 2007: Message edited by: trippie ]


From: essex county | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 10 April 2007 11:09 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quote: Roch Carrier, from the back of the Canadian five-dollar bill
quote:
The winters of my childhood were long, long seasons. We lived in three places - the school, the church and the skating rink - but our real life was on the skating rink.

How nice to have a glimpse of Canadian history on our money.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 14 April 2007 08:35 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't pay any attention to hockey until I learned to skate, relatively very late in my childhood.

And I learned to skate OUTDOORS. These days are ending. Not exclusively because of the NHL, no, but if you are doing nothing to mitigate climate change, you are in effect part of the problem.

I as an individual cannot make huge changes through the daily habits I am endeavouring to change. The NHL's activities by themselves may only contribute a small fraction of global GHGs. But the point is, for dense-heads like Sven, is that all these actions added up start to have an effect.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 April 2007 09:29 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gram swaraj:

The North American lifestyle contributes THE most significantly to global warming - especially on a per capita basis. Watching the NHL is part of that lifestyle.


Imagine an NHL announcement that due to global warming, the league will be doing its part to reduce GHG emissions by reverting back to the original six team league. Okay, how about ten or twelve ?. It would have been glorieux for Habs fans after so many years of watching Quebec talent leave for U.S. teams, like: Vachon, Ratelle, Perreault, Trottier, Parent, Dionne, Bossy, Bourque, Savard and Mario. We could have enjoyed another ten years of coupes de Stanley in Montreal and been the winningest team in pro sports today. Expansion league was a CIA plot I tell ya.

[ 14 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 17 April 2007 10:29 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
[QB]While climate change will surely impact the popularity of hockey, blaming the NHL themselves for it is a bit of a stretch. NHL stars hardly have a monopoly on SUVs and flying. They're just kids who suddenly have a shitload of money. No one told them about climate change. What do you propose, gram? Getting rid of the NHL?[QB]

Did I ever lay the entire blame on the NHL itself? I'm saying the NHL is bad for hockey because it contributes to the problem more than any solution. I don't think that's a stretch at all.

And sure, NHL stars don't have a monopoly on SUVs and flying, but they can take some leadership on the issue, seeing that the game they play is a winter (remember, the time when a thick layer of fluffy white stuff used to cover the landscape?) sport, and that a lot of less privileged kids play it (at least they used to) outdoors.

And so what if these NHL players are kids who suddenly have a load of money and have never heard of climate change? They should fucking hear about it NOW. If they don’t know or care about it, that’d be the epitomy of ingratitude.

And did I propose getting rid of the NHL? (It will go defunct along with winter anyways.) I was proposing the NHL use its highly public exposure to promote counter-GHG measures, instead of promoting moron-machines like SUVs. The league could also buy carbon offsets that go toward renewable energy generation for a place like the Chinese countryside, so the peasants there don’t have to burn so much coal.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 19 April 2007 08:58 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My skating improved most when I was skating OUTDOORS, on a big naturally-cooled pond. It's mcuh harder to improve your skating skills when you can't get any flow going, always having to avoid the boards or other people.

How many more winter Olympics will the world see before they go defunct?


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 22 April 2007 05:00 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
By the time the Stanley Cup finals finally roll around, I will be cheering for...

...the Saskatchewan Roughriders!!!


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 22 April 2007 05:39 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
gram has a point. I doubt the NHL is a significant direct cause of global warming, but millions of Canadians watch NHL hockey and are caught up in the macho SUV culture it advertises on a regular basis.

They can't refuse to take any responsibility for this, when every ad during the hockey game is either for fast food (responsible for monoculture agriculture, factory farming, and huge paper waste) or for SUVs.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 22 April 2007 06:37 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
gee, thanks!

ETA: and Happy Earth Day!!!

Things are looking extremely grim, and practically hopeless...but that's no reason to give up, ever, on trying to save this frikkin planet.

[ 22 April 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 24 April 2007 10:13 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Hockey is too embedded in the Canadian psyche to disappear.

Would you say the same about downhill or cross-country skiing?


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 25 April 2007 03:48 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I keep wondering whether soccer will ever catch on as a professional sport in Canada. (Ha, I say this living around Dufferin and Bloor in Toronto, where the World Cup is like a four week street party. ) But you know what I mean - a sport where there is a strong professional component in Canada with lots of fans, etc.

I think I've read somewhere (tm) that soccer is one of the most widely-played amateur sports in Canada. Wouldn't surprise me, considering that the cost of playing soccer is so cheap, compared to hockey, or even swimming, which requires pool time. I mean, heck, for soccer, all you need is a field of grass somewhere with a couple of goalposts. It's not like Canada's hurting for fields of grass.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 25 April 2007 11:02 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I doubt it. Not around here, anyway. You live in a metropolis, full of many different ethnic enclaves, who brought their sporting tastes with them. A ready-made audience. Out here, soccer is seen as a commie game. It's not called a sport. Too "european." Which is of course, coffee shop code word for weak, arrogant, lacking in moral character, lover of creamy sauces and prone to surrender when faced with the slightest opposition. Ask anyone. The adult population of Western Canada, for the most part, holds nothing but distaste and contempt for soccer. It's fine for them to put their 6 year olds in to keep them occupied while they drink beer and swat mosquitos, but they'd never pay cash money to see it. Not here. If you REALLY want to see a smirk, just refer to it as "football."
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 25 April 2007 11:35 AM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
While climate change will surely impact the popularity of hockey, blaming the NHL themselves for it is a bit of a stretch. NHL stars hardly have a monopoly on SUVs and flying. They're just kids who suddenly have a shitload of money. No one told them about climate change.

Saying the NHL is bad for hockey because it contributes to global warming because of its flying and driving is kind of like saying rock-climbing is bad because of all that CO2 the climbers release due to heavy breathing.

(Speaking of heavy breathing, maybe we should all commit to having less sex--think of all that extra CO2 out there that the atmosphere can't handle!)

The truth is hockey players overall don't fly anymore that the average business class user, or drive any more than any other person who uses a car to go to and from work every day.

quote:
Yes, hockey is getting more expensive for parents but it is not at the stage where only the ultra-rich kids are the only ones who benefit. Most of todays NHL stars, including Sidney Crosby, come from middle class backgrounds.

I agree that the culture of easy money and spoiled rich brats that certainly dominates the NHL is far more of a problem for hockey and for our culture in general--especially considering the game's working class roots.

The yuppie-capitalist religion it pushes is far more damaging to our youth and our society than anything else it might do.

quote:
The North American lifestyle contributes THE most significantly to global warming - especially on a per capita basis. Watching the NHL is part of that lifestyle.

So what? First, it's debatable whether the North American life-style contributes the most overall to global warming (not that I necessarily disagree, it's just that there are many ways to measure it and many variables to consider).

Second, bike-riding, gardening, listening to rock, jazz and blues and drinking beer are also part of that life-style. Does that mean they contribute to global warming?

quote:
An American city like Dallas has around 10 times the population of Winnipeg, the population is richer, and the population pays American dollars.

500 Apples scores one out of three.

True, they are paid in US dollars.

False: Dallas 2005 pollution is 1.2 million; Winnipeg about 630,000

False: about 37 per cent of Dallas residents live at or below the Texas poverty line (which is a lower standard than in Manitoba); only 30 per cent of Winnipeg residents live at that level.

(I could post up all the links, but I'm too busy now).

quote:
I think I've read somewhere (tm) that soccer is one of the most widely-played amateur sports in Canada.

It is; and it’s the most widely played sport—both professional and amateur—in the world. It’s a truly working class game; very affordable and accessible, and I’m a big World Cup fan! Italia!!!! (But, alas, they fly and drive too).

quote:
By the time the Stanley Cup finals finally roll around, I will be cheering for...
...the Saskatchewan Roughriders!!!

--who also fly and drive all over the place. Shame on you!

quote:
What do you propose, gram? Getting rid of the NHL? Gary Bettman's already doing a pretty good job of that.

Good ol Gary sure been busy lately. Actually, I think the NHL does enough damage to hockey, as well as its own credibility, by letting a monkey-brained blow-hard like Don Cherry yap off all the time.

Can you imagine Cherry talking about global warming? Bye bye majority support!


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ursa Minor
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posted 25 April 2007 01:56 PM      Profile for Ursa Minor     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Wizard of Socialism:
The adult population of Western Canada, for the most part, holds nothing but distaste and contempt for soccer.

That would depend on how 'Western' the Canada is. Soccer has always been popular in Vancouver and Victoria among all age groups, either as players or spectators.

Anticipating the popularity of a spectator sport based on the number of young people playing isn't a viable formula. Very few Canadians have actually played organized hockey, but the NHL is overwhelmingly popular.

I think the ball will really start rolling (pun inteneded)once the new Waterfront Stadium is built and the Vancouver Whitecaps join Toronto FC in Major League Soccer.


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ChicagoLoopDweller
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posted 27 April 2007 10:33 AM      Profile for ChicagoLoopDweller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There have been a number of professional soccer teams in Toronto, but none have ever had widespread support. Many of the so-called experts believe this is because soccer fans in Toronto are fans of teams in their native countries and of their respective national teams. Maybe Toronto's MLS side will change this.

I think it should also be noted that very few people play on outdoor rinks. I would guess that 90% of hockey in Canada is played indoors and year round. Not sure that global warming will have much impact there.

[ 27 April 2007: Message edited by: ChicagoLoopDweller ]


From: Chicago | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 29 April 2007 01:14 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChicagoLoopDweller:
[QB]I think it should also be noted that very few people play on outdoor rinks. I would guess that 90% of hockey in Canada is played indoors and year round. Not sure that global warming will have much impact there.[QUOTE]

The love of the game originates in WINTER.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 29 April 2007 03:22 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Out here, soccer is seen as a commie game. It's not called a sport. Too "european." Which is of course, coffee shop code word for weak, arrogant, lacking in moral character, lover of creamy sauces and prone to surrender when faced with the slightest opposition.

This is quite the laugh, considering that this is exactly the view many Europeans, especially of the Latin, Nordic and Slavic variety, tend to have of North Americans--especially US citizens: spoiled, greedy, paranoid, arrogant and chauvinistic, gutless lackeys and brown-nosers to the well-heeled and wealthy, etc., with sports like football, baseball and basketball that are played by idiotic collegiate geeks, rich brats and drunks.

quote:
The adult population of Western Canada, for the most part, holds nothing but distaste and contempt for soccer.

That's likely because you live in backward-ass/negative-IQ Alberta. In the Vancouver metro area, where we have a fairly ethically diverse population, soccer is as big as hockey, especially a World Cup time. The city literally cracks up a couple notches for it.

And that makes sense. Soccer is by far the most widely played sport, both amateur and professional, in the world, and it has a huge loyal fan base that can put any North American game to shame.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 29 April 2007 03:38 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, that's the thing: soccer is much more fun to play than it is to watch. If you've been brought up on hockey, soccer is spectacularly dull: it takes 5 minutes for the ball to work its way from one end of the field to the other.
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Fidel
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posted 29 April 2007 03:54 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My nephew suckered me into playing PS2 FIFA soccer 2007 at Christmas. It's a blast. The game physics of the ball bouncing, skidding and even top spin is somewhat real. It takes a lot of work to score a goal on a 13 year-old.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 29 April 2007 05:59 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
In the Vancouver metro area, where we have a fairly ethically diverse population...

I take it you are referring to things like the acceptance of homosexuality and pot-smoking, mixed among people who work at the Fraser Institute...


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 29 April 2007 06:19 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
Saying the NHL is bad for hockey because it contributes to global warming because of its flying and driving is kind of like saying rock-climbing is bad because of all that CO2 the climbers release due to heavy breathing.
Second, bike-riding, gardening, listening to rock, jazz and blues and drinking beer are also part of that life-style. Does that mean they contribute to global warming?
[the Saskatchewan Roughriders] also fly and drive all over the place. Shame on you!

The point I’ve been making again and again in this thread, is not some absolutist “ban the NHL” position (a straw man you are bravely beating up). What I have been saying, is that the NHL owes a lot to winter, and that they should take leadership in combatting climate change, by first of all buying well-researched, transparent, verifiable TRUE CARBON OFFSETS, that really go to reducing the amount of CO2 emissions.

All pro teams should buy **true** carbon offsets. The NHL should lead the way. Get it???


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 29 April 2007 07:30 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The point I’ve been making again and again in this thread, is not some absolutist “ban the NHL” position (a straw man you are bravely beating up).

Ah but I don't think a straw man could ever play in the NHL with all that body-checking and similar stuff!

quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
In the Vancouver metro area, where we have a fairly ethically diverse population...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I take it you are referring to things like the acceptance of homosexuality and pot-smoking, mixed among people who work at the Fraser Institute...


Ya, well, it's amazing what a minor typo can lead to! Actually, I doubt the fraser Insitute is opposed to homosexuality since, in their sick and factless way of reasoning, they probably see it as a way of reducing pregnancy and therefore less demand for public child care and baby bonuses; or pot-smoking, since getting stoned is a great way of muffling the pain and nausea of serious illness, thus reducing the demand for public health care--a lot more people will die pre-maturely, but at least they'll die happy.

quote:
What I have been saying, is that the NHL owes a lot to winter, and that they should take leadership in combatting climate change, by first of all buying well-researched, transparent, verifiable TRUE CARBON OFFSETS, that really go to reducing the amount of CO2 emissions.

Actually, I know you don't want to shut down the NHL and I actually agree that it would be great if they would use their public influence to raise awareness and activism on social justice, economic and ecological issues, like global warming (if, of course, they keep Don Cherry out of it).

Sadly, given the backward-ass politics that tend to dominate the league, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

I'm glad, though, to see you use the term "transparent, verifiable TRUE CARBON OFFSETS," since, after living in the US in 80s when carbon and pollution credits were started, I witnessed some of the biggest money-grubbing con jobs that sucked billions out of the economy into the pockets of various corporate sleaze bags while doing nothing for the environment.

(But, alas I think that discussion is for a different forum.)


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 29 April 2007 07:37 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Well, that's the thing: soccer is much more fun to play than it is to watch. If you've been brought up on hockey, soccer is spectacularly dull: it takes 5 minutes for the ball to work its way from one end of the field to the other.

I'm not so sure about this. I was brought up watching both and played both a as young-un.

It seems to me that one of the factors in the huge global appeal of soccer is that it is such an easily accessible game to play.

I remember how the hockey-playing craze wore off for me at a younger age, simply because it was so expensive and so time-consuming in dealing with equipment, joining leagues and getting to skating facilities, etc. that it got to be almost like a chore that offset the fun of actually playing.

With soccer, all we needed was a beat-up ball, a fewer willing folks and an empty lot, field or tennis court, and the game was on.

So it seems lots of people like to watch soccer because they probably get to play it as well.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 29 April 2007 07:50 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
Ah but I don't think a straw man could ever play in the NHL with all that body-checking and similar stuff!

It's hard to skate on ice full of straw, I hate that. So pulling out the straw man is a good strategy for someone who's getting outskated. At least straw men don't bleed.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 29 April 2007 08:00 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
I'm glad, though, to see you use the term "transparent, verifiable TRUE CARBON OFFSETS," since, after living in the US in 80s when carbon and pollution credits were started, I witnessed some of the biggest money-grubbing con jobs that sucked billions out of the economy into the pockets of various corporate sleaze bags while doing nothing for the environment.
(But, alas I think that discussion is for a different forum.)

Indeed that discussion could certainly fill plenty more threads. But it could easily be related to this one too.

Sports are a positive thing, and it's enjoyable to watch the best in whatever game do their thing. But it's too bad filthy-rich corporate sleazebags have co-opted all sports.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 01 May 2007 10:49 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lego Guy:
Hockey...will never die in Canada. It is part of the Canadian psyche...Even people who are turned off by the greedy professional athletes in the NHL will still find time to play a pick-up game on a pond in the weekend...

[fast forward a few decades:]
A pick-up game where???? On a pond??? Ponds are full of water, grandpa. At least the ones that haven’t dried up yet.

From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 03 May 2007 06:45 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by BleedingHeart:
Actually even before global warming most of Canada only got 2-3 months of skateable ice.
Hockey did not take off until the introduction of artificial ice in indoor arenas.

Do you have references for the above statements?

quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoLoopDweller:
I think it should also be noted that very few people play on outdoor rinks. I would guess that 90% of hockey in Canada is played indoors and year round. Not sure that global warming will have much impact there.

Why are an overwhelming majority of North American NHL players from either Canada or states like Minnesota, Michigan, and New York, ie, places that traditionally had winter?

You cannot deny, the love of ice hockey comes directly from experiencing a good old-fashioned snowy WINTER, a season that the NHL is doing nothing to save.

Once again, no, the NHL on its own is not destroying winter, but it certainly is doing more to eliminate winter than to save winter - along with things like the glaciers that feed meltwater to countless rivers.

And, yes, of course the NHL is not be able to turn climate trends around by itself.

But every bit from every single person counts, every bit adds up - and the NHL is more than just one individual, who should care about hockey on naturally cooled ice.

[ 03 May 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]

[ 06 May 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 06 May 2007 12:17 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen Gordon:
If you've been brought up on hockey…

How is one brought up on hockey? By being driven to games at indoor arenas, sure. Usually the parents doing the driving have vivid memories of cold winters and playing outdoors. It remains to be seen if many kids that don’t really know winter will raise their own kids on hockey.

How is one brought up on hockey? By playing it outdoors. By having it all around you in the winter. I remember the sounds of neighborhood hockey - the dull thud of rubber smacking the wooden boards, skate blades scraping and digging into ice - carrying across the snow-blanketed school field to the doorway of the house where I grew up.

How is one brought up on hockey? I will forever retain fond memories of donning the most basic equipment (can, sweats, jersey, toque), threading the blade of my stick through the hole above my skate blades, putting on the bulky awkward hockey gloves, slinging the stick-with-skates over my shoulder, shouting “Bye, be back in a couple hours!”, and then trudging through the snow of the school field to the rink. They were special sensations, the crunchy packed snow underfoot, often with a new layer of powder on top, the low sunlight casting long shadows, glinting off the snowflakes, my breath visible in the crisp air.

How is one brought up on hockey? I'll always remember the immediate, if unspoken, mild camaraderie with strangers that came from entering the local rink's locker room carrying my equipment and from looking for a place along the bench, among everyone else's belongings, to store my footwear and tie on my skates. Do you remember, just showing up at a rink and throwing sticks in the middle to make teams? And there’d always seem to be that prospective NHLer who’d skate and stickhandle circles around everyone else.

How is one brought up on hockey? It was a tradition that the guys in my childhood neighborhood would show up for a game of pick-up at the community league rink on Christmas Eve. It was a time to get re-acquainted with people, especially for young adults who were back in town to visit their parents. The ice has been bad the last few Christmases.

You can rationalize all you want, look for sociological research that says hockey didn’t “take-off” before the advent of indoor ice, start talking about soccer as the next game for the common people...but you can’t deny the fact that hockey has been a part of the Canadian social fabric because of the outdoor game, played in a season that is now going extinct.

As reflected by its actions on climate change, the NHL has zero gratitude for the roots of the game.

[ 06 May 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]

[ 11 May 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 08 May 2007 09:13 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Wizard of Socialism:
[QB]The adult population of Western Canada, for the most part, holds nothing but distaste and contempt for soccer...they'd never pay cash money to see it.

Why? Because the population is (or at least was) used to damn cold winters, and the game of hockey. And it wasn’t the indoor rinks that made hockey popular, it was old man Winter. Intuition tells me this, not someone’s PhD research.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 11 May 2007 06:10 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
It seems to me that one of the factors in the huge global appeal of soccer is that it is such an easily accessible game to play.
I remember how the hockey-playing craze wore off for me at a younger age, simply because it was so expensive and so time-consuming in dealing with equipment, joining leagues and getting to skating facilities, etc. that it got to be almost like a chore that offset the fun of actually playing.
With soccer, all we needed was a beat-up ball, a fewer willing folks and an empty lot, field or tennis court, and the game was on.
So it seems lots of people like to watch soccer because they probably get to play it as well.


Goes to show, you play and learn to love the game that is most accessible. More co2 (and less co2 TRULY offset) >> less winter >> less accessibility to skatable ice >> less interest in hockey

From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 13 May 2007 06:33 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Of the teams left in this year’s chase for Lord Stanley’s mug, I have the least desire to see the Ducks win. Just a bunch of millionaires practicing their rubber chasing skills, enjoying relative anonymity while living it up in the sun. Come on, few of their local followers truly know the game; I'd say most of the crowd at these playoff games are bandwaggoners. I have difficulty believing a lot of their young fans go out on their roller blades and dream of playing in the NHL.

The Ducks, because they represent California, least represent the toughness and grit that winter was once known to engender in people, the toughness and grit that Canadians like to see reflected in their favourite hockey teams. The fans of the other 3 teams deserve a cup more than Anaheim fans do. Enough of warm climate cities winning!

Lightning, Hurricanes, then Ducks? Hey these are real winter-y names for hockey teams, eh? It would be nice to see the cup back in a place where people know what a real winter was once like.

And it would be nice if the NHL did something honestly significant to counter climate change.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
ChicagoLoopDweller
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posted 15 May 2007 12:12 AM      Profile for ChicagoLoopDweller     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You mean the fact that most players now use aluminum or composite sticks as opposed to wooden sticks isn't enough?
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Sven
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posted 15 May 2007 02:10 AM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gram swaraj:
Of the teams left in this year’s chase for Lord Stanley’s mug, I have the least desire to see the Ducks win. Just a bunch of millionaires practicing their rubber chasing skills, enjoying relative anonymity while living it up in the sun. Come on, few of their local followers truly know the game; I'd say most of the crowd at these playoff games are bandwaggoners. I have difficulty believing a lot of their young fans go out on their roller blades and dream of playing in the NHL.

Okay, below what line of latitude should hockey not be played?!?! I live in state that loves hockey (Minnesota), so I'm assuming that we'd still make the cut.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 15 May 2007 09:27 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
I live in state that loves hockey (Minnesota), so I'm assuming that we'd still make the cut.

Of course!


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 15 May 2007 09:31 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
C'mon now, Minnisota is The heartland of hockey in the States. Might as well call them honourary Canucks. California just aint the same.
From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 15 May 2007 09:39 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
C'mon now, Minnisota is The heartland of hockey in the States. Might as well call them honourary Canucks. California just aint the same.

I understand. Hockey is part of the culture here (not quite like Canada...but very close). I like gram's comment about rollerblading in California. It just doesn't mean the same to them.

So, personally, I'm actually glad that Detroit opened up a big ol' can o' whupass on the Duckies tonight.

Looks like it's going to be Ottawa (for sure) v. Detroit (likely) for this year's Cup. That would be a good series!


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 15 May 2007 09:47 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoLoopDweller:
You mean the fact that most players now use aluminum or composite sticks as opposed to wooden sticks isn't enough?

It's questionable whether the new sticks result in fewer GHG emissions. You have to consider all the mining and factory processes. I'm sure the new materials last longer though, so they'd have a longer useful lifespan. If wooden sticks come from FSC certified forests, that's tolerable. You can do a lot of things with old wooden hockey sticks, and the carbon stored within them needn't be released into the atmosphere by throwing them in an incinerator or something.

But to answer your question...If you've understood my posts in this thread, you would know I'm not saying "stop enjoying hockey" or "get rid of the NHL." What I am saying, is that the NHL is doing nothing to combat something that is destroying its own roots, in other words, it is doing nothing to encourage the reduction of GHGs (greenhouse gases) that are bringing an end to snowy, icy winters and everything that goes with them (for example glaciers and the watersheds their meltwaters feed).

If the NHL were to give some advertising time to messages that encourage people to reduce GHG emissions, I would be a little happier. We could start by cutting out the most unneccessary things, like SUVs and Humvees.

(...and if you feel an SUV or Humvee is necessary for yourself, I truly feel sorry for you.)


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 15 May 2007 09:56 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
I like gram's comment about rollerblading in California. It just doesn't mean the same to them.

Yeah, rollerblading and ice skating are like apples and oranges.

Of course you can go jumping all over things on roller blades, but that's more an X sport like skateboarding.

But when compared to ice skating, it's impossible to get the same gliding feeling on rollers, nor the sensation of digging the blades into the ice, etc.

(ETA: And it's an even better feeling when you're skating on a huge patch of ice in the great outdoors, snow on the banks of whatever body of frozen water you happen to be on, and no Zamboni driver about to open up the gate to signal that the ice time you bought has expired.)

[ 15 May 2007: Message edited by: gram swaraj ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 15 May 2007 10:16 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:

Hockey is part of the culture here (not quite like Canada...but very close). I like gram's comment about rollerblading in California. It just doesn't mean the same to them.


Roller blading's just another fad in comparison. Minnesota does have those other sports you like to play down there... Play em up here too I hear...if we're not good enough on skates.

Should be a great final this year, as long as the cartoon team don't make it. Detroit still has the edge in Hasek I think, but Ottawa has a good chance too, as the Wings are missing two of their better D-men. Could go either way.


From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 15 May 2007 10:31 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:

Should be a great final this year, as long as the cartoon team don't make it. Detroit still has the edge in Hasek I think, but Ottawa has a good chance too, as the Wings are missing two of their better D-men. Could go either way.

Four great teams made the semis. As to who finishes on top, a lot comes down to the intangibles, like desire, or having on your team a grizzled hungry veteran who's never won the cup(a la Ray Bourque or Lanny McDonald).

As I'm cheering for the guys representing the city with the Rideau Canal, I hope they won't get into a situation where they go cold waiting to see who their opponent will be. But I speak too early, they still need that fourth win!

PS: SUVs are ridiculous, why's the NHL still advertising them?


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 15 May 2007 10:46 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All great teams in this years semis, that's true. Just don't like the idea of a trap playing, sunshine state, Disney creation winning but they still have a shot. Buffalo's maybe just going through what other eventual champions did. Still hoping for Ottawa too, but poor things, noone will believe it until they see it now. Broke some psychological barriers this year even if they do fall abit short. Again. Oh ya, the topic of this thread. So much I don't like about the NHL now I can only add this to a long and growing list.
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Fidel
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posted 16 May 2007 12:59 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
Should be a great final this year, as long as the cartoon team don't make it. Detroit still has the edge in Hasek I think, but Ottawa has a good chance too, as the Wings are missing two of their better D-men. Could go either way.

I hate having to eat my words aftaword, but the Wings appeared slow and plodding in game two. They'd better hurry it up against Anaheim and step on it. The Ducks are not the same cup contenders as the Sabres are/were this year.

I think Alfredsson was tired last spring after playing for team Sweden. He's on fire this month. The Sens changed their game since losing to the Sabres last year, every game by one goal and with one goal leads lasting a matter of minutes on average per game. Sure, Buffalo still has the firepower in all four lines, but Ottawa's defence and forechecking specialists are providing a hockey clinic for the Sabres this year. I think the Sabres will grow into a legitimate Stanley Cup team in the next year or so. This is a learning season for them, and they will become a formidable team with a few tweaks here and there in developing their own Jacques Lemairian-New Jersey-style defencive game. If New Jersey could add a Briere, Afinogenov or vanek. American goalie Ryan Miller has been a standout for the Sabres. He received his early training from a coaching specialist in Sault Sainte Marie, the same Northern Ontario town where Ray Emery played a season in junior b for the Hounds.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 18 May 2007 09:14 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
Just don't like the idea of a trap playing, sunshine state, Disney creation winning but they still have a shot...Oh ya, the topic of this thread. So much I don't like about the NHL now I can only add this to a long and growing list.

I don't mind the Ducks' players and coaches winning, what I really hate is the prospect of their fans and owners gloating over the cup. [Shudder!!!]

I'm sure most Anahiem-based fans are just bandwaggoners who appreciate next to nothing about living in the ice and snow. I know someone who saw a playoff game last year at the Pond, and reported that their was very little atmosphere in the building - during a league semi-final game, yet!


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erik Redburn
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posted 18 May 2007 11:00 PM      Profile for Erik Redburn     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thats how I felt about Carolina last year. I wouldn't mind seeing class players like Pronger or the old vet Selanne win a cup, just like I didn't mind seeing Brind'Amour or Doug Weight finally win one. I just don't like to see new monied cities winning, which haven't paid their dues yet or have any real connections to the ice outside of their drinks.
From: Broke but not bent. | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 19 May 2007 08:32 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
I just don't like to see new monied cities winning, which haven't paid their dues yet or have any real connections to the ice outside of their drinks.

I hear ya!

Speaking of Selanne…he’s a good player and probably a classy guy in general, but something he said around lockout time really put me off. Arguing for greater free agency, he said something to the effect that it was against, of all things, players’ human rights not to be able to choose where they wanted to play. Talk about being a spoiled multi-millionaire crybaby!!! Playing in the NHL makes one a hugely privileged human being, and he pulled out basic human rights - which are intended to give people basic things like food, clothing, shelter - in support of his argument for even more privilege. Excuse me while I puke once again, recalling what he said.

If Selanne, or any other hyper-spoiled pro athlete really believed in human rights, he'd do something more beneficial to the planet and others instead of just looking after himself.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 22 May 2007 09:13 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm cheering for the city that knows winter, of course.

Unfortunately, the team supported by bandwaggoners, who've driven in from the beach to see what the hype is about, is looking quite strong. I have to prepare myself to see them take the cup.

But the Senators can still win it, too.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 22 May 2007 09:44 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The NHL is a good role model for consuming resources like crazy in a world going down the tubes. Little things add up, wrecking the planet for us all, or at least the majority of humans.

Take the little caps the little richboys have to have after winning a conference or league championship. So if the series goes to a seventh game, what is done with all the caps that were made for the losing team? They must be huge collector items dumped in some country in the global south, or maybe they just get burned, their synthetic material turned into co2 and toxins for the atmospehere.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 30 May 2007 06:31 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Huh? Wha... the Stanley cup final is still going on???
From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 02 June 2007 10:09 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Should the series go seven games, ice hockey’s big prize will be awarded 10 days before SUMMER SOLSTICE. Is there some commercial advantage to competing with the baseball season getting into full swing? Doesn’t it feel weird, watching Stanley playoffs in June? Goes to show, NHL owners and GMs don’t give a shit about the the earth’s cycles.
From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 07 June 2007 09:49 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's great having teams in the sunbelt isn't it?

quote:
As of very early June of 2007, some NHL sources have intimated that another outdoor regular season game is likely to be scheduled, with some chance it would involve one United States-based NHL team, during the upcoming 2007-08 NHL season.

Are we going to see an outdoor game between the Lightning and the Ducks? As happened in the November 2003 Heritage Classic between the Oilers and Canadiens, to celebrate the ROOTS of the game?

When are we going to see another Heritage Classic in Canada? I find this line from the above webpage quite laughable:

quote:
There is also a growing movement in Edmonton for an annual winter festival, with an outdoor NHL game as the cornerstone.

Winter, even in Edmonton, is dying.

It would be nice if the NHL started showing some leadership on TRULY reducing greenhouse gases.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 07 June 2007 11:29 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can I ask the obvious question here?

How the hell do you have an outdoor game between the Lightning and the Ducks?


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 08 June 2007 01:06 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've read that our winters are so warm now that an outdoor rink in the old Gretzky family's backyard just wouldn't be worth it. I think the game is becoming more expensive for the average Canadian kid. Quite a few NHL'ers came from modest roots and played the outdoor game growing up in Northern and North-Eastern Ontario. At least now we'll have an excuse for not winning Olympic gold.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Farmpunk
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posted 08 June 2007 05:27 PM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wasn't sure if this info should be in this thread or the Stanley Cup one.

I have officially lost all and any respect for Mike Fisher and Dean McAmmond. They were quoted in Sports Illustrated as saying that the media story that they're sick of is: the war.

Gets in the way of focussing on playing hockey, doesn't it?


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 09 June 2007 12:13 AM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
How the hell do you have an outdoor game between the Lightning and the Ducks?

Precisely. And my whole point is, in the near future we may be asking the same question with any other two teams...and does the NHL care?


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 09 June 2007 01:25 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Come on, guys. It's every kid's dream in Southern California and Florida to have real winter and spend half of Saturday shovelling the neighborhood rink off to play an hour or two of pickup hockey. And Anchorage and Whitehorse want pro soccer teams. It's a niche market, but I'm of the belief that if they build a stadium and spread the talent around just a little more, people will come. It's easy when we can actually think like capitalists.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
gram swaraj
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posted 20 January 2008 08:14 PM      Profile for gram swaraj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So the Winter Classic was a success. Hooray. Lucky for the NHL, the game wasn't rained out. Maybe it will be next time.

Say, how many of the all-stars grew up playing exclusively on indoor ice? None, I'd wager. I think they all owe a debt to some good old natural outdoor winter ice.

It would be nice if the all-stars stood up as individuals and said the NHL brass should do something to truly mitigate climate change.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
toddsschneider
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posted 22 April 2008 04:13 PM      Profile for toddsschneider     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is Team Canada doing us any favors either?

"Team Canada to unveil new look"

http://tinyurl.com/4zpbwm

quote:
Team Canada will be sporting a new look when it hits the ice at next month's men's world championship in Halifax and Quebec City.

With help from some minor hockey players, Hockey Canada and Nike will unveil the new Team Canada home and away jerseys in Toronto on Thursday.

Several of Canada's national team players are expected to be on hand for the announcement ...



From: Montreal, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 25 April 2008 06:11 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Imagine an NHL announcement that due to global warming, the league will be doing its part to reduce GHG emissions by reverting back to the original six team league. Okay, how about ten or twelve ?. It would have been glorieux for Habs fans after so many years of watching Quebec talent leave for U.S. teams, like: Vachon, Ratelle, Perreault, Trottier, Parent, Dionne, Bossy, Bourque, Savard and Mario. We could have enjoyed another ten years of coupes de Stanley in Montreal and been the winningest team in pro sports today.

Hang on; #11, Guy Trottier, used to play for the Leafs. Toronto may have its aspirations, but it isn't part of the US yet.

Is there a chance you meant Brian Trottier, from Val Marie, Saskatchewan?

What if all the Ontario kids stayed and played for Toronto?

[ 25 April 2008: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sandy47
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posted 26 April 2008 07:50 AM      Profile for Sandy47     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
What if all the Ontario kids stayed and played for Toronto?

Richard Peddie would still find a way to fuck it all up?


From: Southwest of Niagara - 43.0° N 81.2° W | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 27 April 2008 08:06 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No doubt.

The scuttlebutt is that Ron Wilson will lose his coaching job if the Sharks tank in this year's playoffs.

If I were Wilson I'd have his equipment manager checked out for being a double agent. I started watching that game in the third period tonight and saw about five Sharks lose an edge and wipe out.

Something


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged

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