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Author Topic: Positively Potty over Potter
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 15 November 2002 05:19 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From the Globe and Mail.

Warning: this is not satire.

Christians Persecuted: Not Allowed Permit for Book Burning.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 15 November 2002 05:44 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Man, they just can't leave it alone.

I'm inclined to think it's a publicity stunt. I mean, how many other children's books are there about witchcraft and the occult? Lots.


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Michelle
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posted 15 November 2002 08:29 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't you love the Hitler hairdo and 'stache on Uncle Bob in the second link? hahaha! I love Chick tracts!

As for the first link, the guy's a dork. But I don't believe he claimed to be persecuted, Tommy. You don't have to exaggerate to make the Christians look worse than they are - it's bad enough as it is. What knobs.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 15 November 2002 09:43 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
True enough, that was gilding the lillie.

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 15 November 2002 10:51 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
"It's no secret that I enjoy what I'm doing right now," Rev. Taylor said, ripping up a book.

This man needs help, and not of the spiritual nature.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 15 November 2002 02:20 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He he! I keep thinking of Ned Flanders telling Rod and Todd that Harry Potter ended with all the witches being burned at the stake and going to hell, and Rod and Todd doing their classic "Yay" in unison.

I just love that comic! Especially the "fact" that the King James version of the bible is the only one Satan hasn't messed with. That's just the funniest thing I've ever heard (God likes iambic pentameter).


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Black Dog
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posted 15 November 2002 04:26 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Re: Bob Chick

As the South Park kids would say: "Dude! that's some pretty f**ked up shit right here!"

Don't hate Harry because it's evil: hat eit because its dull.

("Only version Satan hasn't messed with"? *snicker*)


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Smith
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posted 15 November 2002 04:30 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, it gets immensely more fucked up. Read the one called "Lisa" or something like that. Your blood will boil...if a freak like Chick is capable of making your blood boil, that is.
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Dr. Mr. Ben
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posted 15 November 2002 04:35 PM      Profile for Dr. Mr. Ben   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
God likes iambic pentameter
Doesn't everyone?

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Black Dog
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posted 15 November 2002 04:49 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Man, was I dissapointed when I clicked the "Meet Jesus" link. No e-mail, no phone number, no mailing address: how am I supposed to meet Jesus if he didn't leave at least a forwarding address?

Smith, can you link to the tract you talked about. I'm in the mood to have my blood boiled...


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Lima Bean
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posted 15 November 2002 04:58 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This one is just too much!

"Somebody Loves Me
Beaten and alone, a child dies. But Jesus cares."


[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Lima Bean ]


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swirrlygrrl
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posted 15 November 2002 05:05 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The one about Hinduism (supposedly) is also great. Or the one for Aboriginal people. They're all so great, why choose!

By the way, all you Catholics are going to hell too. And Masons are all devil worshippers.


From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 15 November 2002 05:08 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aww. That was sweet, especially when Jesus loved that child enough to let him get beaten and die in an alley...
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paxamillion
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posted 15 November 2002 05:16 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
No e-mail, no phone number, no mailing address: how am I supposed to meet Jesus if he didn't leave at least a forwarding address?

I'd suggest a private appointment with Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallwell.


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Lima Bean
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posted 15 November 2002 05:26 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or you could get someone to beat you nearly to death and then throw you out in the pouring rain. That seems to work in a real jiffy.
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paxamillion
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posted 15 November 2002 05:28 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or just go to your nearest Seven Eleven.... oh... sorry, that's Elvis.
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Smith
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posted 15 November 2002 05:47 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, they took "Lisa" down. Darn. Here's a summary from someone's web page:

"A man sexually abuses his daughter and lets his neighbor have a go at it too. His daughter contracts Herpes and is more than likely emotionally scarred for life. Her doctor confronts this man over it. Does he go to jail? Once again, no. Instead he lets Jesus Christ become his savior, redeemer, blah blah, etc. Now everything is just great."

You read this thing, and the husband offered the daughter to his neighbour, and the wife didn't stop him because she resented the daughter's claim on her husband's attention (or something), and then they find Jesus Christ and repent of their sins and everything's going to be great.

And then, in the last panel, you see the daughter.

And she's four years old, at the most.

And that's when you start to vomit.

From my casual skimming of the web, it appears that very few of Chick's acolytes have a problem with this. But then, why would they? Horrible tracts for horrible people.

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Smith ]


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
kuba walda
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posted 15 November 2002 06:49 PM      Profile for kuba walda        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's absolutely disgusting.
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Michelle
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posted 15 November 2002 06:55 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good thing they took it down! I seem to remember reading that one - I went through all of them one night when I was bored.

This one always makes me giggle - just perfect for babble:

Juan joins a communist revolution.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 15 November 2002 08:13 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't take political action! There's no point! Just conform, and one day Jesus will show up and make it all better!

I seem to remember something in Barbara Ehrenreich about Jesus being set up as a martyr so they can crucify him again and again. This seems about right.

Jesus may not have been a gun-totin' Commie, but he sure as hell wasn't a capitalist.


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DrConway
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posted 15 November 2002 10:26 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hit Jack Chick's website every once in a while to amuse myself at the incredibly one-dimensional, simplistically written tracts that get put on-line. It's amazing what a dogmatically right-wing fundamentalist Christian can do with a flair for art and a genius for making the worst overgeneralizations I've ever seen in my life.

Jack Chick himself claims to have picked up these techniques from the Chinese Communists.

As I said once,

"Chinese and Soviet Communists murdered millions in the name of a one-sided view of who was right and who was wrong. Jack Chick is directly or indirectly responsible for striking fear into the hearts of millions in the name of a one-sided view of who is right and who is wrong. While Chick's tactics and techniques are a difference in kind, the end result is the same: the imposition, by force, of a doctrine that is required to be obeyed because someone else tells you to."

The similarities are there, if you look....


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 15 November 2002 10:29 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I still love Chick tracts. They're kind of like a car accident - you're horrified but you can't help but look.

Then again, they're not quite like a car accident since I don't laugh out loud at accidents but I do at Chick tracts.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 16 November 2002 09:07 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Chick thing is all new to me.

To be honest, I find the dredging up of "you shall not suffer a witch to live" rather disturbing.

Particularly since last weekend, when Michelle changed me into a Newt.

....well, it got better.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 16 November 2002 09:11 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even I couldn't turn YOU into the former Republican House Leader, Tommy.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 16 November 2002 09:33 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
True, burdensome as it may be at times, my conscience is thoroughly entwined as part of me.

Even if I got rich, I'd never be able to switch to right wing politics.


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DrConway
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posted 16 November 2002 09:48 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not just a House Leader, Michelle, a House MAJORITY Leader.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
sheep
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posted 17 November 2002 09:41 AM      Profile for sheep     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jack Chick rocks. His work is going to go down in history, mark my words. Absolutely hilarious stuff. As far as the "millions" of minds he's poisoning, have you ever met anybody who could possibly take those things seriously? I suppose somebody out there must be leaving them on the bus seats. I wish there were more people influenced by Chick out there distributing them, so I could add more of them to my collection.

My favorite is "This Was Your Life". Gasp, I once admired an attractive woman...now I'm damned to hell!


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Smith
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posted 17 November 2002 09:50 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Apparently people were leaving "The Death Cookie" on the Toronto subway seats during the week of World Youth Day.

Chick fans are more common than you might think; do a search on the web and you'll come up with lots. They crawl out of the woodwork occasionally.


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 November 2002 03:06 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You can order them, sheep, I think they sell them pretty cheap.

Also, I'm not sure, but you MIGHT be able to get them at your local Christian bookstore, especially if the store is of a more evangelical or charismatic bent. I thought they were only ten cents each or something like that.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
cynic
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posted 17 November 2002 06:48 PM      Profile for cynic     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When I was attending the University of Alberta there was a great cartoon called "Space Moose" which did its best to piss off everyone. One of the best ones was a parody of a Chick tract, where our hero, Space Moose, tries to get some kids to help him have sex with a dog (This is something he did a lot). Then, if I recall, Jesus shows up, driving Moose away but comforting him with the fact that "there are many dogs in Hell". The last page shows Moose being, er, savaged by hell-dogs.
I guess you have to see it to believe it, but I swear it was pretty damn funny.

From: Calgary, unfortunately | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 17 November 2002 06:55 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, Space Moose!

There's some other good parody chick tracts if I can find them.


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swirrlygrrl
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posted 17 November 2002 07:27 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Space Moose, the bane of my existence. I arrived at U of A the year after his fateful (near?)election as SU President, and just in time for his misogynist "phase" (i.e the banned Take Back the Night comic). Must admit that he was better than most of the other Gateway comics, but he was no Bob the Angry Flower.

I would welcome finding some Chick tracts around - I'm getting sick of reading the Watchtower when I go to the laundrymat without a book.


From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 17 November 2002 09:34 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like reading Watchtower and Awake! as well.

I don't know what it is, I love reading fundamentalist religious tracts, they're such fun!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 18 November 2002 12:54 AM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They're a guilty pleasure of mine as well - like the National Post and the Weekly World News. I personally think I like them 'cause poking holes in the arguments or seeing through fallscious (bad spelling) reasoning makes me feel smarter. And 'cause I like hearing the latest news on Bat Boy.
From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 18 November 2002 12:55 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah, see, that's why they make me mad. I read them and wonder how so many people can be so farkin' STUPID, and how we are ever going to make a better world when there are so many STUPID PEOPLE getting in the way.
From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 18 November 2002 01:48 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm all for sending them to Mars as colonists.

In space, on one can hear you prostyletize.


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Rebecca West
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posted 18 November 2002 11:42 AM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I love Bat Boy. Really, I want to have his child. Stop laughing, I'm serious. According to Awake! I'm already going to hell, so what harm could it do?

Those leaflets are hilarious, and hardly pose a threat to rational society (the majority of people). Let the minority believe the world is filled with freaks and devil-worshippers. Theirs is a truly interesting reality.


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 18 November 2002 11:44 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It sure is!

I haven't read one of their mags in a long time though - who is Bat Boy?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 18 November 2002 11:50 AM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
YOU KNOW, that demonic looking kid that shows up on the front page of the Weekly World News every few months or so. Big eyes, pointy ears, needle teeth?

There are plently of folks who believe things like Chick Tracts, I just read one of the entries, about D&D, I know someone who a thinks that way.


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swirrlygrrl
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posted 18 November 2002 12:23 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bat Boy was found in a cave several years ago. The physical description above is quite accurate, and since his initial location, he's had many misadventures - escaping, being captured, etc. You can buy mugs with his picture (also with the one of aliens shaking hands with Clin-ton, cause of course the aliens endorsed him). He's very much a celebrity.

Like you Rebecca, I think he's a misunderstood romantic figure - a better looking (though pale), adolescent Frankenstein, but you should be careful of professing love and desire to bear his child - he is Bat BOY, not Bat Man. Wasn't he like 7 when they first caught him, about 7 or 8 years ago? That's the pervvie part.


From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 18 November 2002 01:13 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I guess I've been living under a rock or something - I've never heard of Bat Boy before this, although I do occasionally see the Weekly World News headlines at the grocery store. I guess it didn't make a really big impression on me.

Can you imagine, there are actually people who subscribe to those things?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 18 November 2002 01:31 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bat Boy is only 14? Damn, I'm strictly for mutants 18 and over. I suppose I could wait a few years...he and I have a psychic love connection that spans centuries of reincarnated historical figures and alien visitations, you know.

Oh Michelle, where were you educated? EVERYONE knows about Bat Boy


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 18 November 2002 01:58 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay, I remember now.

Bat Boy - from the Weekly World News web site.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 18 November 2002 02:06 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
U of A radio used to have a morning show when I was in high school called 45 pounds of cranium, and they used to do the "Satan report" weekly, an update on the Dark Lord's doings, based on articles from the Weekly World News. My personal favorite was when he won a contest with his pumpkin pie, beating out a mom from Iowa - the judges called it "heavenly," and article even had a picture and recipie (the devil wears too much makeup). My mom and I always pick one up for long car trips, where she drives, and I read articles in amusing tones. Truly, no education is complete without it.

OKay, and not to be blasphemous here, but I have a question for any (former, current) Christiam (or plain knowledgeable person) - the Chick tracts normally at least at some point mention the Biblical quote "for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son...", and this really cheeses me, 'cause he's GOD! He could have had more children! Take a lesson from Zeus, make yourself a waterfall and go at it! SO, please tell me, why should this impress me, given that it was a) his choice to only have one kid, and b) his choice to slaughter him? And he raised him from the dead anyways, then took him to live with him in the Kingdom of heaven. I've asked several people this question, and no one has given me a satisfying answer, so if you can show me the light, please do!


From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 18 November 2002 03:01 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Take a lesson from Zeus, make yourself a waterfall and go at it!
That made me laugh out loud!

From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 18 November 2002 03:22 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle, my on-line experience will never be the same again!
From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 18 November 2002 08:56 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This was not what I expected when I opened this thread.

My son is wondering why in the movie they call it parlsemouth while in the book they call it parlsetongue when tongue sounds better than mouth. He loved the movie but thought it was so inaccurate compared to the book.

Since I don't shop at Superstore any more - anyone know if Cracked or Crazy is getting involved in the sequal. With the first book they had "Harry Potty and the Philosopher's Throne" with Harry sitting down "Dave Barry is not taking this sitting down" style. All in all no different than Fred Roger's book on potty training - except less appealing to pedophiles.


From: Just outside St. Boniface | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 18 November 2002 09:01 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
My son is wondering why in the movie they call it parlsemouth while in the book they call it parlsetongue when tongue sounds better than mouth.

I don't know whether they changed that in the US, like they changed "Philosopher" to "Sorceror" - but maybe they figured nobody would understand the word "tongue" meaning "language."

Just like nobody in the States knows what a philosopher is. You know, since they've banned dictionaries down there.


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
vaudree
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posted 18 November 2002 09:13 PM      Profile for vaudree     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is mouth even in the british version of the movie. I guess the producers thought that parsletongue just had too much tongue too it.

The great thing since we got Philosophers rather than Sorcerers here in Canada is that all the stuff that had Sorcerers on the lable ended up in the dollar shop while all the stuff with Philosophers on the lable ended up at Toys R Us. Great tip to know if you are looking for a bargan.

Just like with all the Japanese anime - the stuff in the orgininal Japanese packaging can be purchased much cheeper than the same toy in the English packaging.

Then again I am typing on a brand new keyboard (just took the tags off but purchased just over a year ago) that they were clearing out for one cent just because it was french rather than english.


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Smith
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posted 18 November 2002 09:18 PM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My roommate claims it's in the book:

Parseltongue=the language
Parselmouth=a person who speaks the language.

So Harry is a Parselmouth.


From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 18 November 2002 09:20 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
SO, please tell me, why should this impress me, given that it was a) his choice to only have one kid, and b) his choice to slaughter him? And he raised him from the dead anyways, then took him to live with him in the Kingdom of heaven. I've asked several people this question, and no one has given me a satisfying answer, so if you can show me the light, please do!

You've got me. I know what the official explanation is, but it sure as heck doesn't answer those questions satisfactorily. If anything, those questions pretty much get sidestepped.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Daoine
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posted 19 November 2002 03:38 PM      Profile for Daoine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
NOTE: The following is almost entirely satire, and probably poorly written at that. It isn't intended as an attack on christianity or on anyone who is, was, or has ever considered being a christian. It may be a bit of a dig against fundamentalists, but don't even take that too seriously.

For the record, I am a christian, although of course a lot of christians are probably pretty upset about that. I just don't think that it's necessary to always be so stuffy and self important.


Swirly, it's a tangled mess. A lot of what God is said to do/have done is just incomprehensible. And folks expend a lot of energy trying to justify it. Including me, of course, so here goes:

Bad things happen, and we have evil, because he wants us to freely choose to love him. (This isn't a direct causal relationship, but it does link up) It should relate back to the garden of eden, where there didn't seem to be so much fuss over loving god, but that seems to me to be a stretch even against the backdrop of biblical reasoning in general.

Anyway, so we have evil and bad things happening, and people sin (ambiguously, where did that predilection come from? If it was in the fruit, why was it a temptation; and if it wasn't in the fruit, why wasn't sin a concern in eden?). Sinning is very bad, and people who sin are going to suffer forever unless they specifically repent of each and every sin. At least that's the way it's "literally" interpreted.

This doesn't pan out, as everytime god turns around, his people aren't loving him, and have to be punished back into the proper attitude. And even then all sorts of sneakiness and disobedience takes place.

Apparently, at some point, god realizes that this just isn't turning out at all like he'd hoped. People are so perverse (in the sense of unpredictable and unruly) that they can't be relied upon to love him on their own.

So he re-examines the whole sin thing, and decides that negative reinforcement simply doesn't work. Also, the sin by sin repentance thing is a dismal failure. In the first place, we sometimes sin so often that we'd have to spend days or weeks doing nothing but repenting if we went by the book. This also means that although sinning itself is pretty simple, quick, and easy, repentance is just too much work to be worthwhile.

I really have no idea where the particulars came from (maybe the same source that had some prophets running around seeing UFOs and others being swallowed by large aquatic mammals), but god decided the thing to do was to once and for all settle the whole line-item-repentance thing in one fell swoop. But because of all the buildup (imagine if you'd been told for centuries that if you lift a finger on a specific day of each week that you're going to burn forever), it had to be pretty spectacular.

Besides, the whole sin and repentance thing had been entirely co-opted by a group of really obnoxious knowitalls who had gotten the idea that nobody would notice if they took god out of the picture entirely, and just went by what other obnoxious knowitalls had written down. This just wouldn't do. I mean, there were all sorts of people who were thought to be nasty and vile who were really much nicer and more lovable than the nasty, vile people who were supposed to be good. Things had gotten out of hand.

So god killed two birds with one stone. He made a young woman pregnant and made sure to advertise the fact that Something Important was Happening so that people from all over would know to pay attention. Jesus was born, and he went around pointing out how ridiculous things had become. He largely ignored the pharisees and had lunch with prostitutes and tax collectors. He healed some sick people and made it a point to feed the poor (since the stick had failed abysmally, time to try the carrot). He was very cagey talking about How Things Ought To Be because he didn't want to end up with more obnoxious knowitalls in the future (well, he did try, at least). He kept driving his point home, trying to make sure that we'd get it right.

Now for the big moment. We have the pharisees who really deserve to be soundly beaten, we have the whole sin-repentance thing, and we have to make it all dramatic so people won't forget and go back to being just randomly unruly. Jesus found out (or knew all along) what was going to happen, and was understandably concerned; but you gotta do what you gotta do.

So, now god has the pharisees discredit themselves by convincing one of the less discerning disciples (did I forget to mention there were disciples? There were.) to get Jesus arrested and charged with... well, with something very serious involving becoming the king of the Jews even though we had already had kings among the jews, and it was all immaterial anyway since the romans were in charge, and they had an emperor, which nobody accused Jesus of claiming to be. After some sort of hand washing incident they sentenced him to be executed. This was a real spectacle, and drew a lot of attention. When it was all over, the disciples and the other friends Jesus had made mourned, and went to pay homage at his tomb. Surprise, he wasn't there. Then he was there, but not dead, and he finally explained the whole thing, that you didn't need an accountant to figure out what you needed to do to keep from going to hell anymore, and that while it was still good to live by the old rules, it was more important to be nice than to be proper, starting now. And we should be nice to everybody, no more of this "killing every man, woman, and child" business from the old days.

Of course, everybody still didn't quite get the point, but at least they did try, and more importantly they tried because they wanted to, not because they were being shown burning lakes and other scary stuff.


So that's it, really. Hope that cleared things up a bit.


From: Gulag Alabamadze | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Flowers By Irene
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posted 19 November 2002 04:10 PM      Profile for Flowers By Irene     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whenever hardcore christians nag me about how I'm going to hell, as happens from time to time, I always just tell them "Don't worry, I'll repent on my deathbed."

Every once in a while they will begin to see the logic of it, for a minute, but usually they just point out that I could be hit by a bus or something. At this point I get to act all disgusted and say "Oh don't be so nega-" and then break into my having a heart attack routine, complete with confession and miraculous recovery.


From: "To ignore the facts, does not change the facts." -- Andy Rooney | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
swirrlygrrl
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posted 19 November 2002 04:20 PM      Profile for swirrlygrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tres amusing! Very Route 66 revistited.

But not jiving with my understanding of biblical teachings (for many Christians, salvation is through grace not good works. Haven't you been paying attention to Chick?). God as showman does explain much though - he seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex, and brings up a lot of philosophical stuff im my mind about wanting to be worhsipped, yet not thinking good those who worship you (recognition of self - was it Kant who loved this whole discussion?), and of course the Machiavellian whether it is better to be feared or loved.

And what does all this changing of minds say for god being infalliable? That was what always got me about the Ark - god realized he'd goofed, and that's whay we have the rainbow. Umm, so not infalliable? Then why worship? Oh, yeah, lake of fire. New and Old Testament is really wonky, and very much along the lines of Flander's "I've obeyed everythig in the bible, even the stufff that contrdicts other stuff," happy gof and vengeful god. If it were just the new testament, I'd probabbly be on board, but then there's Leviticus, which is all about the size in cubits of boxes and how I'm ritually unclean.

(she blathers on for a good long while more...) And so in conclusion, I think we're all nuts.


From: the bushes outside your house | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Daoine
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posted 19 November 2002 05:23 PM      Profile for Daoine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
...and so we are.

You should see the arguments that there were dinosaurs a) in the garden of eden, b) on the ark, or c) both. And those proposing that there were really only a couple of million insect species alive in the time of the flood, but that every one of them was included on the ark.

Couple of million little bitty cardboard boxes? Nevermind the whole fish thing.

(Salvation by grace is part of the "fell swoop". Since we can't be forced to be good, it's no longer compulsory, but you should still be nice.)

Religion causes people to get caught up in the most trivial nitpicking. Of course, if you reject the whole parable concept, it might be hard to understand that Harry Potter isn't a primer on witchcraft. Doesn't make such an interpretation (or lack of interpretation) any less silly.

I have a niece who was driven by her grandmother to detest books (she insisted that the child learn to read at age 4; continued pressure backfired bigtime), but that has rediscovered (or discovered) the joy of reading specifically as a result of the Harry Potter series.


From: Gulag Alabamadze | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged

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