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Author Topic: CBC pulls Tommy Douglas movie
The Naked Gord Program
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posted 12 June 2006 07:26 PM      Profile for The Naked Gord Program   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
REGINA — The CBC has pulled a movie about the life of medicare founder Tommy Douglas from its broadcast schedule, citing historical inaccuracies in the portrayal of an adversary in the film.

The corporation has also halted both home and educational sales of Prairie Giant: The Tommy Douglas Story while it tries to resolve concerns raised about how former Saskatchewan premier James (Jimmie) Gardiner comes off in the eyes of viewers.


[URL=http://tinyurl.com/zdmby[/URL]

Wonder if bootleg copies will start showing up on ebay

[ 13 June 2006: Message edited by: The Naked Gord Program ]


From: http://www.pmflaccid.da.ru - Watching Stephen Harper | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 12 June 2006 07:35 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow. I hope they never show the movie Amadeus on CBC (or pretty much any other popular movie about historical figures) in that case.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 12 June 2006 08:06 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wasn't the show presented as a partially fictionalized account of Douglas' life? All CBC has to do is place a disclaimer at the beginning.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 12 June 2006 08:59 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No way, not if it's about real people. If the CBC is actually pulling it, the complaint probably has some teeth. Somebody didn't do due diligence, and that somebody's career is therefore probably in the dumper.

Keefer's gonna be mad.


From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 12 June 2006 09:18 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, yeah. It was a dramatization.

We should probably pull the movie Arrow because the main female protagainist didn't actually exist.

And we ought to not allow Alexander Nevsky be aired!


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 12 June 2006 09:41 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Boom Boom:

quote:
All CBC has to do is place a disclaimer at the beginning.

There is a disclaimer saying something along the lines that for the purpose of brevity some of the other characters have been compiled into fictionalised sketches(i forget the legal term, but this is clearly there).

I think this is all about the fact that the last thing the lib / con elites want people to know is that one time a little mouse rose up and bit them in the arse!

The issue that has them most pissed occurs over the Estevan massacre. Neither the speech nor the fact that Gardiner didn't drink are issues, the issue IS the fact that both liberals and conservatives rose in unison and ordered the RCMP to murder defenseless miners in front of their families (who were on their way to a picnic).

Interesting that no one has found any faults in the portrayal of Douglas who is the main character (it's his flim after all).

Papal Bull great comment about the Arrow and as others have pointed out this is common in all these types of films. (the Arrow also had a similar disclaimer).

So first the CBC didn't run Prairie Giant during the election and now they're pulling it. Do you get the idea whoever was behind this project will be blacklisted for "commie" sympathies?

I'm glad I bought my copy which I'm sure will create many others if this censorshit isn't reversed.


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
otter
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posted 12 June 2006 10:36 PM      Profile for otter        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Imagine, someone had the nerver to suggest the real conspiracy theory behind pulling the TD flick is that it embarasses the hell out of the private for profit health care lobby!

Ohhhh Cisco.... ohhh Pancho....


From: agent provocateur inc. | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 12 June 2006 10:38 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just bought Prairie Giant: The Tommy Douglas Story DVD set using this CBC Shop page. Or at least they let me think I did. The checkout page gave me an order number a-ok. Maybe CBC just sold me the last uncut version.

[ 12 June 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 12 June 2006 10:56 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm going to rush out and pick it up once I have money.

You know what I say? If you're going to have inaccuracies in a movie...make them big! Have Tommy Douglas training Jack Bauer in how to stop terrorists.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 12 June 2006 11:14 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ya, who could imagine a corrupt, mean-spirited Librano politician ?. C'mon!
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
mayakovsky
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posted 13 June 2006 04:17 AM      Profile for mayakovsky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"You know what I say? If you're going to have inaccuracies in a movie...make them big!"

Ya, mean like me and Fidel trading off goaltending duties in the Canada-Soviet mini series!? We were both Tretiak at different times and once Esposito.


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Boom Boom
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posted 13 June 2006 06:41 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whatever their real motives might be, I think the CBC is behaving in an absolutely disgraceful manner in pulling the TD flick. I used to think the CBC had integrity.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 13 June 2006 08:31 AM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's no ulterior motive; it's very plain. Again, you cannot simply make a disclaimer about fictionalizing when it comes to depicting real people. That's like wrapping yourself in the flag and saying you're justified in doing whatever nasty thing because, after all, you're acting as a patriot. This is a fault of due diligence before the movie went to camera. Really, really basic stuff. The family is right to complain, especially considering the racist/drinking portrayal is not just "fictionalized", but the exact opposite of the man's actual character, and the contribution he made. And the CBC is right to pull the plug, because they are heading for a lawsuit otherwise.
From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 13 June 2006 08:59 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bittersweet:
The family is right to complain, especially considering the racist/drinking portrayal is not just "fictionalized", but the exact opposite of the man's actual character, and the contribution he made. And the CBC is right to pull the plug, because they are heading for a lawsuit otherwise.

Oh, okay, obviously I haven't been following this story closely enough. I take back my comments re: the CBC. I actually watch the CBC every day, particularly 'politics' and 'The National'.


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obscurantist
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posted 13 June 2006 09:56 AM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As background, there've been a few threads about the Tommy Douglas miniseries -- one about the CBC's original decision to delay its air date from the last week of the election, another about the decision to run a documentary bashing Medicare in its place, and one about the miniseries in general (including the Gardiner family's response to the portrayal of Jimmy Gardiner).
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 13 June 2006 10:02 AM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
P.S. -- sidescroll alert. TNGP, the link in your first post is causing the margins to be incredibly wide. It's a quirk of the technology of this forum, but could you please replace the link with a hotlink or a tinyurl link?
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Naked Gord Program
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posted 14 June 2006 01:11 AM      Profile for The Naked Gord Program   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
I just bought Prairie Giant: The Tommy Douglas Story DVD set using this CBC Shop page. Or at least they let me think I did. The checkout page gave me an order number a-ok. Maybe CBC just sold me the last uncut version.

[ 12 June 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]


Did your order ship?

I notice that alot of online stores seem to have stock. There's also a 1 disc and 2 disc version apprently. Not sure what the differnce is however I'm kinda inclined against ordering this right now since whenever anything goes OOP some angel always seem to upload it to a site like http://chomskytorrents.org.


From: http://www.pmflaccid.da.ru - Watching Stephen Harper | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
The Naked Gord Program
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posted 14 June 2006 01:14 AM      Profile for The Naked Gord Program   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Wow. I hope they never show the movie Amadeus on CBC (or pretty much any other popular movie about historical figures) in that case.

Michelle - speaking of online ordering have you ever thought about having an affilate program for e-stores and perhaps using the revenue to promote this site more with google adwords etc?

If you're not opposed to the idea of having an affilate links section I'd def be game in helping out.


From: http://www.pmflaccid.da.ru - Watching Stephen Harper | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 June 2006 04:14 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. But I'm actually not the best person to talk to about it anyhow, since I don't really have anything to do with the advertising or fund raising on the site. However, if you send your idea to [email protected], I'm sure they'd be interested in hearing about it. They're quite open to fund raising suggestions, I think.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 14 June 2006 08:36 AM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bittersweet:
There's no ulterior motive; it's very plain. Again, you cannot simply make a disclaimer about fictionalizing when it comes to depicting real people. That's like wrapping yourself in the flag and saying you're justified in doing whatever nasty thing because, after all, you're acting as a patriot. This is a fault of due diligence before the movie went to camera. Really, really basic stuff. The family is right to complain, especially considering the racist/drinking portrayal is not just "fictionalized", but the exact opposite of the man's actual character, and the contribution he made. And the CBC is right to pull the plug, because they are heading for a lawsuit otherwise.

Yes, there was some seriously faulty research, or the writer got carried away and ignored the research. Either way, somebody dropped the ball. I was surprised at the portrayal of Gardiner, and that was never the Estevan Massacre (hint: No bodies left to rot in the street, wasn't on mine property, Douglas wasn't there, although he did head up a drive to get food for the strikers prior to the Massacre. I could go on, but that would be tedious.) But then, the lack of direct villain and historical accuracy would not have been as clearly and expeditiously dramatic in the form of an MOW.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 14 June 2006 03:32 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
OR IT WAS A DRAMATIZATION.

Seriously, you guys. Go off and fight Sergei Eisenstein's corpse. He really misportrayed Alexander Nevsky's enemies in his film. In fact, you should probably go and bug Hollywood about every bio-pic EVER MADE.

There was a disclaimer at the beginning. Plus, there was ample alternative consideration given as cited/mentioned in this thread.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 14 June 2006 03:36 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Papal Bull:
OR IT WAS A DRAMATIZATION.

That was exactly my impression - I didn't expect to get an accurate portrayal of history down to every detail, but rather drama and entertainment.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 14 June 2006 03:39 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wish it was that simple, PB, but the vagaries of lawsuits and E&O insurance make it so it's not.

The guy has living relatives who objected, and their lawsuit must have enough bite to it that the insurer is not going to fight it.

I have to admit I'm curious as to the details.


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 14 June 2006 03:39 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For some reason this thread makes me want to talk about the King of Kensington...But I shant, for that would be too big a derail.
From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 14 June 2006 03:48 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I enjoyed King of Kensington when it debuted, but it got stale for me fast. I'm not an Al Waxman fan. My favourite Canadian series is North of 60, but I enjoy most Canadian drama, including that Coroner show I can't remember the name of. I've watched CBC since the mid-1950's, and a lot of CTV from the day it began broadcasting, and very little of Global or CITY. I'm a huge fan of the CBC, always have been.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Naked Gord Program
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posted 14 June 2006 04:07 PM      Profile for The Naked Gord Program   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. But I'm actually not the best person to talk to about it anyhow, since I don't really have anything to do with the advertising or fund raising on the site. However, if you send your idea to [email protected], I'm sure they'd be interested in hearing about it. They're quite open to fund raising suggestions, I think.

kk I'll gather together a list of commerce sites that offer an affiliate program and e-mail them.

For anybody wondering an affiliate program is basically a "cut" that websites will get from each sale if they enter the store from your website (either by banner ads or text links).

Here's the page for the affiliate program from Amazon.com for reference:
http://associates.amazon.com/gp/associates/join/104-9533010-0715958

[ 14 June 2006: Message edited by: The Naked Gord Program ]


From: http://www.pmflaccid.da.ru - Watching Stephen Harper | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 14 June 2006 05:00 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think you're talking about Da Vinci's Inquest.

I didn't care for any CBC shows until quite recently. But I suppose that most of their broadcasted serials aren't exactly aimed at youth audiences. Well, okay. I cared for King of Kensington. I can barely remember it from my childhood when I saw it on reruns. And the (I think) Kids in the Hall sketch about it.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 14 June 2006 05:57 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Papal Bull:
I think you're talking about Da Vinci's Inquest.

Nope. I just remembered the name:
Wojeck, starring John Vernon. It ran in the 1960's.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 05 July 2006 10:36 AM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An update, a press release from the Writer's Guild of Canada For immediate release: WGC asks CBC to issue apology to screenwriter.

June 26, 2006 – The CBC pulled its two-part miniseries on Tommy Douglas, Prairie Giant, from circulation and halted DVD sales without talking to screenwriter Bruce Smith about the historical accuracy of his script.

“The CBC has not contacted me, the director, or my research colleague to find out how much research we did for the script, and to let us counter the accusations made by the Gardiner family,” says Smith, who is currently working on a script for a miniseries based on Steven Truscott.

Smith worked full-time for two years on the Prairie Giant script with a doctoral-student researcher and expert on Tommy Douglas and Jimmy Gardiner. Along the way Smith spent hundreds of hours in archives and libraries researching the history of the period, read more than 30 books covering Douglas, Gardiner and numerous other political figures of the time, as well as a slew of newspaper articles, and conducted dozens of interviews with people who knew both men.

“I stand by my portrayal of Jimmy Gardiner without reservation,” says Smith. “It is historically accurate and based on extensive research.”

Smith found out from watching television that the CBC had hired an independent historian to assess his portrayal of Gardiner. The historian concluded that Smith hadn’t done enough research – even though he never contacted Smith to actually find out what research was done.

“The CBC’s behaviour is inexcusable,” says Maureen Parker, Executive Director of the Writers Guild of Canada. “We ask that they review the facts, and issue a public apology.” Besides damaging Smith’s reputation, the CBC has set a dangerous precedent for all screenwriters who write scripts based on true-life events, Parker adds.

“Screenwriters must be given dramatic licence to take historical events and put them into television form,” says Parker. “A professional, experienced screenwriter like Bruce knows where he has to condense events to tell a compelling and entertaining story, while still staying true to the facts.”

After CBC announced it was pulling the plug on the miniseries, Smith finally had a chance to read the historian’s assessment of his script. “I can counter every one of the arguments made against my script,” says Smith. “Gardiner was a controversial figure and we knew all along some people would complain. We were always ready to defend ourselves, but we never got the chance. This is outright censorship.”


From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 05 July 2006 12:07 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I received my copy of Prairie Giant about two weeks or so ago from CBC Shop. They sent a second DVD with all of the edited scenes on that one. It's true, the Liberals had been in too long even then. They weren't being labelled autocratic though until the 1940's. Both the old line parties have had strangleholds on power for too long. Democracy has waned over a hundred years of plutocracy in Canada.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
sgm
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posted 05 July 2006 02:38 PM      Profile for sgm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A letter in Saturday's Regina Leader-Post offered some suggestions for fixing the flaws in the Tommy Douglas movie.

The letter writer, Irv Fines, suggests replacing the offending footage with 'actual clippings from the Leader-Post quoting Gardiner and showing how active this federal minister was in Saskatchewan during the month of June 1944.'

Fines then quotes a number of Leader-Post headlines from the time:

June 2: 'CCF Boards Would Dictate Gardiner warns'

June 3: 'Gardiner jokes of CCF tactics'

June 5: 'Socialism leads to dictatorship Gardiner says at Sturgis'

June 14: 'People "chattels" under CCF plan--Gardiner addresses 2,000'

Fines then quotes Gardiner from the June 5 article:

quote:
"The CCF has given an idea of what they intend to socialize, and from socialism they will lead on to dictatorship. Under dictatorship you are either for them or against them, and if you are against them you will be taken out and lined up against a brick wall."
Fines concludes:
quote:
The Gardiner family wants historical justice. History is recorded on the pages of the Regina Leader-Post and other newspapers. Why not replace a couple of inaccuracies with some close-ups of historical headlines and quotes? This would give a good indication of Gardiner's role in the 1944 election and an otherwise excellent movie would be saved.
Not a bad idea.

[ 05 July 2006: Message edited by: sgm ]


From: I have welcomed the dawn from the fields of Saskatchewan | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 23 September 2007 04:22 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rebroadcast this week on Vision TV:

Part 1 - Tuesday 9 p.m. EDT
Part 2 - Thursday 9 p.m. EDT

Link to previous thread


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 23 September 2007 07:36 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Naked Gord Program:

Did your order ship?

I notice that alot of online stores seem to have stock. There's also a 1 disc and 2 disc version apprently.[/URL]


Sorry for taking a year to get back to you, Gord. Yes, mine is the two CD version with the movie on one disk and edited scenes on the second. Gord?


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
a lonely worker
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posted 25 September 2007 08:56 PM      Profile for a lonely worker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I also got a copy of the film as I pre-ordered it before the Saskatchewan and Liberal parties turned it into "the Jimmy Gardiner Story". So my copies are unedited. If anyone wants a copy please pm me and I can send them one.

I watched the hour special after the first part "Prairie Giant - Beyond the controversy". What started as a suspected lynch mob turned completely around once the director finally had a chance to give his side of the story with even one of the historians on the "con" side nodding his head. It's really worth a watch:

Beyond the Controversy


From: Anywhere that annoys neo-lib tools | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 26 September 2007 08:36 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I liked what they said about the Hollywood Capote movie with Seymore Hoffman. There were inaccuracies in that film, but no one is calling for the movie to be censored.

Jimmy Gardener was the composite bad guy. There were damn few good guy politicians back then. A prime minister of Canada, John Diefenbaker at the time said Saskatchewan's provincial Liberal leader was unscrupulous. And Tommy Douglas was the good guy. That's what the movie is about.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 28 September 2007 03:22 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I managed to rent the movie a while back. Gardiner's portrayal aside, the fact that banks moved to sabotage the CCF by foreclosing on farms whose payments were not delinquent, and the CMA tried to sabotage the NDP's Medicare plan, is on record and is a very convincing portrait of how, even in the post-Depression years, capitalists who should have learned better about the inherent instability of such a system, apparently didn't.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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