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Author Topic: CBC's Greatest Canadian begins tonight
Reflex
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posted 17 October 2004 11:40 PM      Profile for Reflex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sadly I'm away from a TV at the moment, so I didn't get to watch the first episode. Hopefully someone will upload it over at www.suprnova.org for download.

Anyone else catch it though? Who are the 10 finalists?


From: Ontario | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 18 October 2004 12:11 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The 10 finalists, in alphabetical order:

a. Banting, Dr. Frederick
b. Bell, Alexander Graham
c. Cherry, Don
d. Douglas, Tommy
e. Fox, Terry
f. Gretzky, Wayne
g. MacDonald, Sir John A.
h. Pearson, Lester B.
i. Suzuki, Dr. David
j. Trudeau, Pierre E.

Louis Riel came 11th. My vote, which was for Dr. Norman Bethune, came 26th.

I dunno what the hell Cherry is doing on the list. And I am disappointed that there is not a single woman in the top 10. Just in the field of literature alone: Atwood, Munroe and Shields seem worthy. But what the hell do I know.

But having made those two observations, I would say that, at first glance, my vote would go to either Banting or Suzuki, for combining a great intellect with social justice/advocacy. Fact is...Douglas, Pearson and Trudeau could just as easily be categorized in that way. Banting's discovery of insulin and his unselfish determination to see that the benefits of the discovery went to no individual in particular has got to be one of the great Canadian accomplishments. So I say...Banting. (But I would add, as an important footnote, the contribution of Best. Nuff said!)

[ 18 October 2004: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reflex
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posted 18 October 2004 12:32 AM      Profile for Reflex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the info.

I guess my money would have to be on PET, or possibly Terry Fox.

I'd be thrilled to see either Douglas or Suzuki win though.


From: Ontario | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 18 October 2004 12:33 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Besides Suzuki, they are all white males. How very typical.

Gretzky? Ya, the greatest Canadian who has lived in the US for the last 15 years.

As Lewis Black would say; "Idiots!"


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 18 October 2004 12:39 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Reflex:
I guess my money would have to be on PET, or possibly Terry Fox.

I'd be thrilled to see either Douglas or Suzuki win though.


In the Time magazine "Person of the Century" they picked Einstein (who of course was a socialist).

This combination of a great mind with a willingness to put that mind to work for a greater good seems the most admirable combination of "elements" ...to use Shakespeare's terminology from his description of Brutus in his great play, Julius Caesar. So Cherry and Gretzky are out. I'm kinda partial to Fox because...we share the same birthdate. oops...my prejudices are showing.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 18 October 2004 12:39 AM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's pretty cool that Suzuki made the list. I mean, he's one of only three living people on the list, that's a pretty sweet distinction.
From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 18 October 2004 12:41 AM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I never got around to voting myself. But geeze, Don Cherry? Was they chosen strictly by number of votes?
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 18 October 2004 12:42 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I dunno what the hell Cherry is doing on the list. And I am disappointed that there is not a single woman in the top 10.

Don Cherry? Something's flawed here.

My vote would have been for Laura Secord, Canada's greatest war hero.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 18 October 2004 12:46 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Laura Secord made the top 50, of which there were 5 or 6 women in total.

Supplement: The Unknown Soldier won a spot in the top 50...as did General Romeo Daillaire and General Sir Arthur Currie, and of course the inventor of mobile blood transfusions and the Mobile Army Surgical Hospital, Dr. Bethune. Brock was in the top 50 as well. Canadians apparently, can kick butt and heal the sick. Damn we're good.

[ 18 October 2004: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 18 October 2004 01:02 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's the website. Make sure you register to vote.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 18 October 2004 01:04 AM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Suzuki,cool. I was just watching TNoT earlier today and was thinking he would be a good choice for the award . . . Cherry? A Great Canadian? A great Canadian embarrasment maybe!
From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 18 October 2004 05:57 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think this list reflects the CBC's viewership's opinion of the greatest Canadian. Oddly enough, the list reflects something similar I was taught in grade school about famous Canadians. I was just surprised the guy who invented time zones, that Flemming guy, wasn't on the list, too (although I caught the show after it started so maybe he snagged the a spot in the forties).

But, of course, the trouble with lists is that they reflect the culture now. I can't judge too harshly about some of the picks because I've actually met white, English Canadians that had a burning interest in Louis Reil. So while it's a pop contest, it's not a Canadian Idol pop contest.

Couple comments: I'm rather confused why Rex Murphy is doing the Trudeau bit. I suppose it makes sense in the fact that he's from Newfieland and not Alberta... but then, writing a constitution limiting the right of governments to make policy is a righty-endorsed (or at least American) style of running a government. Deborah Grey doing the bit on Gretzky makes sense if you think the CBC is a commie bastion... the only rightwing commentator person that doesn't endorse a political figure goes for sports instead. She was also recently profiled on the National, I think.

Anyway, Don Cherry makes just as much sense as Myers or Carey. Heck, it might even make as much sense as Gzowski: a bunch of people listen to him and have been listening to him for ages now. In my own opinion, Suzuki is just a nut in the other direction as Cherry is yet Suzuki made the top ten, too. I'd give brownie points to Suzuki just because he talks about stuff I'm interesting but that is just me. I don't much care for hockey but I like watching Cherry too. (For comparison these are the commentators the guitarist chick, Sook-Yin, Evan Solomon, George Stromponopolousisuogigous, the Douglas supporter, and Mary Walsh are all on my side of the political spectrum (maybe not yours but when you divide the field in half?), Bret Hart is a character I won't comment, other than maybe he's other draw for the Cherry voters, on and I don't know anything about Gross or Gray).

Another thing I found interesting about the list was their summaries of the listees. It wasn't until a few years ago that I realized Bell is claimed by multiple countries, that Sir John A greased the wheels with alcohol or that Bethune was a commie sympathizer. Yet all points were made about these subjects I (cursorily) studied in school.

Anyway, as the kids say nowadays... random.

[ 18 October 2004: Message edited by: clockwork ]


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 18 October 2004 06:55 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Louis Riel came 11th.

would riel have considered himself canadian?

i'm a bit surprised at the number of pre-WWII candidates in the top 10.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
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posted 18 October 2004 07:04 AM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
would riel have considered himself canadian?


Probably not, since he became an American citizen 1n 1883.

This is a useful fact for throwing in the face of self-righteous Canadian nationalists who prattle on about how Canada treats minority groups much better than the USA does.

[ 18 October 2004: Message edited by: voice of the damned ]


From: Asia | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 18 October 2004 09:12 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just like in our political past: Tommy Douglas should win; Trudeau will win.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 18 October 2004 09:21 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Remember the advertisements they had on television urging people to vote for the greatest Canadian? The only one I remember was the Neil Young one, where the guy had his entire cubicle wallpapered in Neil Young posters and paraphernalia. It was rather funny, I must admit.

I know they had a series of those commercials - did any of them feature women? Or people of colour?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 18 October 2004 09:27 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In the entire top fifty, there is a single serious literary figure, Leonard Cohen, and of course that's not exactly why he is there.

(Yes, I admire Pierre Berton and he belongs on the list, but he is not a writer in quite the way I'm thinking of here.)

This country is now known internationally for its many -- many! -- great writers, and our economy is enriched more than most recognize by our artists. And yet: not a single great writer except Cohen.

The Irish wouldn't behave this way.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gentlebreeze
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posted 18 October 2004 09:34 AM      Profile for Gentlebreeze     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:

would riel have considered himself canadian?

i'm a bit surprised at the number of pre-WWII candidates in the top 10.



No he wouldn't I'm sure.

Nor would Tecumseh or Sir Isaac Brock either I'm sure, yet they were in the Top 50. I guess if CBC put them as options on their website for voting, then it was assumed by many that they would qualify.

Frankly, while not suprising, I was disgusted by the selections in the top 50...Only six women, including Avril Lavigne and Shania Twain!?!?!? Four hockey players!? Jim Carrey, John Candy and Mike Myers!?

When I considered those left off in favour of these pop stars and pro-atheletes, I was embarrased. No Attwood, Richler, Fairclough, Macphail...

I can see why the Dominion Institute is so concerned.


From: Thornhill | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 18 October 2004 10:01 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Quoting skdadl:

"The Irish wouldn't behave this way. "

Neither would the Québécois-e-s.

And of course the hockey player would have been Maurice Richard...

It is indeed shocking, given the importance of Canadian literature abroad.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 18 October 2004 11:03 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The list was quite simply the top number of nominations received. People who are dismayed or disgusted by the list should blame their fellow Canadians -- and I wonder how many of them criticizing the list actually participated themselves.

Since Laura Secord was never a Canadian and never even lived in this country, I don't see how she could qualify.

Yes, they are all white males except Suzuki. The greatest accomplishments in the history of this country were primarily made by white males, as no one else had the opportunity to participate fully in society. We can't change the past.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 18 October 2004 11:12 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Gabrielle Roy
Mavis Gallant
Anne Hebert
Margaret Laurence
Alice Munro

and one could go on ...


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
No Yards
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posted 18 October 2004 11:13 AM      Profile for No Yards   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anyone know if Tecumseth was anywhere on the list? After all, if it weren't for him Canada would likely not exist . . . and for his reward (or rather the reward promised his people) he received nada, not even his proper place in Canadain history boks.
From: Defending traditional marriage since June 28, 2005 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
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posted 18 October 2004 11:16 AM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, Tecumseh made the list. He was no. 37.
From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 18 October 2004 11:24 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And the top woman on the list was . . .

Number 18: Shania Twain.

The CBC has been trying to reposition itself, and attract younger viewers. Congratulations, I guess.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 18 October 2004 11:55 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To the extent that this program has anything to do with CBC trying to position itself, it can hardly be blamed for how people voted.

At least Shania Twain has a discernable talent (even though I'm not a fan), unlike Don Cherry.

Anyway, things could be worse. The Greatest South African was cancelled after the architect of apartheid was ranked number 19 (although viewers there did have the good sense to rank Nelson Mandela first).

[ 18 October 2004: Message edited by: Scott Piatkowski ]


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gentlebreeze
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posted 18 October 2004 12:44 PM      Profile for Gentlebreeze     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
The list was quite simply the top number of nominations received. People who are dismayed or disgusted by the list should blame their fellow Canadians -- and I wonder how many of them criticizing the list actually participated themselves.

Since Laura Secord was never a Canadian and never even lived in this country, I don't see how she could qualify.


That is exactly the reason for my dismay; that Canadians actually voted in such numbers for these pop stars and atheletes. Still I was pleased to see a number of worthy candidates in the Top 10 (including the one I voted for, Douglas).

BTW, while Secord was born elsewhere, she did indeed live in Canada. She married another loyalist, and made her home in Queenston, Upper Canada. In fact it was in that home that she supposedly overheard the American officers talking about their plan. She does qualify.


From: Thornhill | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 18 October 2004 12:51 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I know they had a series of those commercials - did any of them feature women? Or people of colour?

I don't recall about the ones urging them to vote. But few months ago there were about three commercials advertising the show, with a black woman going into her office, checking her e-mail, to be told "You have 134,000 new messages." Another had her computer starting to smoke; they were kind of cute, anyway.


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 18 October 2004 12:51 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Louis Riel came 11th. My vote, which was for Dr. Norman Bethune, came 26th.

Does anyone have a link to the Top 50 list? I can't find it.

When this was getting started, I nominated Sue Johansen.

[ 18 October 2004: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 18 October 2004 01:07 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gentlebreeze:
BTW, while Secord was born elsewhere, she did indeed live in Canada. She married another loyalist, and made her home in Queenston, Upper Canada. In fact it was in that home that she supposedly overheard the American officers talking about their plan. She does qualify.

I stand corrected and will buy you a cream egg next Easter.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 18 October 2004 01:28 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I seriously doubt Tecumseh would consider himself Canadian. Kinda defeats his purpose.
From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
candle
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posted 18 October 2004 01:55 PM      Profile for candle     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by clockwork:
I was just surprised the guy who invented time zones, that Flemming guy, wasn't on the list, too (although I caught the show after it started so maybe he snagged the a spot in the forties).

Sandford Fleming was indeed on the list at the upper part.

Where were William Lyon McKenzie and Louis-Joseph Papineau?

John Polanyi would have been a good choice as both a Nobel laureate in Chemistry and a peace activist

I don't recall any visual artists being on the list (Group of 7, Bill Reid, Emily Carr, Paul Kane, J.P. Ripoeille) or architects (Moshe Safdie, Douglas Cardinal, Frank Gehry)

It could have been worse - Preston Manning could have been on the list (which was my fear when I heard Deb Grey was doing one of the presentations although I figured it was Gretzky).

I knew going in that George Strombolousos was doing T.C. Douglas because either the Globe or the Star, I can't remember which, let it out of the bag.


.


From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 18 October 2004 02:02 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Yes, they are all white males except Suzuki. The greatest accomplishments in the history of this country were primarily made by white males

oh c'mon, history was written by white men, so what a surprise, the "greatest" accomplishments were by them.

if you don't recognise the names of nellie mcclung, roberta bondar, or sandra lovelace, that doesn't mean their accomplishments weren't "great".


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 18 October 2004 02:21 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes I recognize them.

And I don't notice Marc Garneau's name on the list either, do you?


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 18 October 2004 02:27 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
true about marc garneau, but how many famous women in science/technology do we have in canadian history? it isn't just about her being an astronaut, bondar is one of the only female role models in the last 30 years.
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pellaken1
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posted 18 October 2004 02:45 PM      Profile for Pellaken1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I called in with Diefenbaker, but his foes, Douglas and Pearson, are tied in my book. They are both good men.
From: Gritland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 18 October 2004 03:37 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
true about marc garneau, but how many famous women in science/technology do we have in canadian history? it isn't just about her being an astronaut, bondar is one of the only female role models in the last 30 years.

Are you suggesting people be lauded, not for their accomplishments, but for their sex? So what if she's a female role model -- that's not the point of the list. It's the greatest Canadian, and like it or not, people didn't think she or Garneau qualified.

The accomplishments of the other women you mentioned were unique. Bondar's weren't. She's one of two Canadian astronauts and one of 53 female shuttle astronauts.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 18 October 2004 03:46 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
bondar is one of the only female role models in the last 30 years.

Not that I'm all that keen on the idea of "role models" anyway, but do you really mean to say, WW, that in order to be a "female role model," one must be in science/technology?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vickyinottawa
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posted 18 October 2004 09:32 PM      Profile for vickyinottawa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hope folks are watching the profile of Tommy - on now!
From: lost in the supermarket | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
spatrioter
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posted 18 October 2004 10:03 PM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It was so amazing. I love Tommy. And his quotes. And the fact that his profile was an infomercial for why the NDP is so much better than the Liberals.
From: Trinity-Spadina | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
vickyinottawa
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posted 18 October 2004 10:12 PM      Profile for vickyinottawa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the pierre trudeau portrait bit was my favourite
From: lost in the supermarket | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 19 October 2004 05:04 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cannot see the TV show over here, but the CBC site and the list make look like another self-absorbed CBC-ish event:
http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/

2 of the final 10 "greatest" Canadians have had shows on CBC, for crying out loud!!
Why stop there?
-- Adrienne Clarkson, Howie Meeker, Juliette, Mr Greenjeans and the whole panel from Front Page Challenge are waiting for your votes!!

Anyway, re Trudeau and relative popularity:
Huge fan of Trudeau, but when he died exactly 4 years ago, there was a rush to rename some geographical site for him;
somehow, Mount Logan, highest peak in Canada, was chosen.

Immediately, there was huge protest from the science community, because William Logan was a pioneer in Canadian science, arguably the greatest geologist and even geographer ever here, they say:
http://tinyurl.com/5d6ag

But of course, someone like Logan, whose CBC special with Tommy Hunter got low ratings (playoffs) and whose radio spot with Gzowski was cancelled, is unknown to the average pedestrian queried at Yonge & Bloor. Hence his abysmal showing in a TV network's popularity contest, easily bested by recent celebrities and hockey commentators.

There are dozens of Logans out there in our history, of all sizes and shapes (and yes: genders! ethnic groups!! )

Fun diversion, but needless to say, worthless in convincingly answering the question of greatest Canadian.

On post-rant reflection, Banting (and Best) did more for greater numbers of people than anyone else in Canadian history ... perhaps. Does make them "greatest" ?

a suivre ..../

[ 19 October 2004: Message edited by: Geneva ]


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 19 October 2004 09:01 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
how many famous women in science/technology do we have in canadian history? it isn't just about her being an astronaut, bondar is one of the only female role models in the last 30 years.

sorry to be imprecise ... one of the only female science/technology role models in the last 30 years.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 19 October 2004 09:03 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i'd also point out that the list is curlingist. only sandra schmirler made the top 100.
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 19 October 2004 09:36 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Globe and Mail is running an online poll of the top 10.

Here are the current results, updated to reflect skdadl's vote.

Pierre Elliott Trudeau  2413 votes   21%
Terry Fox  2057 votes   18%
Tommy Douglas  1715 votes   15%
Alexander Graham Bell  1078 votes   9%
Sir John A. Macdonald  934 votes   8%
Frederick Banting  806 votes   7%
Lester B. Pearson  841 votes   7%
David Suzuki  847 votes   7%
Wayne Gretzky  499 votes   4%
Don Cherry  395 votes   3%

(Wondering if the real reason she voted was that in my previous tally Tommy ended in "69")

[ 19 October 2004: Message edited by: RealityBites ]


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 19 October 2004 09:41 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok. I violated my principles, crossed my own picket line, and went to the Grope site and voted for Tommy. I'm so ashamed.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 19 October 2004 10:15 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
using one clear criterion -- biggest impact on the most people in the world -- "greatest Canadians" are, I would vote:

Politics: Lester Pearson, founded peackeeping, Nobel Peace Prize
(Trudeau, Laurier, Macdonald come later)

Literature: Northrop Frye

Science: several top scientists, Banting, Polanyi, including Nobel winners, hard to assess

Sports: Gretzky, w. Lionel Conacher close 2nd


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 19 October 2004 10:58 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Sports: Gretzky, w. Lionel Conacher close 2nd

no.


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
miss nomer
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posted 19 October 2004 11:29 AM      Profile for miss nomer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that while everyone on the list has accomplished much for Canada, the greatest Canadian is Terry Fox.

In his Canada shirt and generic gray shorts, he battled the elements, the landscape and the vastness of this great land. He brought out the best in Canadians as he raised awareness and millions of dollars for a disease which has affected every one of us. Even after his death millions of dollars have been raised for the cause in his name. He is a true hero.


From: global village | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 19 October 2004 12:20 PM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
While these events are basically just popularity contests, it's still to disturbing to think that...

quote:
the closest a woman came to being the “Greatest Canadian” was giving birth to one.

From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hawkins
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posted 19 October 2004 10:46 PM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Terry Fox is the most powerful Canadian figure in my opinion.

He is the quinticencial Canadian, I don't want to be mean, but he was a failure. But in his failure he was inspirational. He was more humble then any other on that list. He fought to the death for his values - and regardless if you look at our history or war or of peace, that is a value that we regard very highly of. He fought for the lives of others.

He is Mr. Canada.

And his failure is so important to Canada. We always tend to show an inferiority complex. Terry shows the power of that failure, that in not finishing we can actually become greater than we were before.

Tommy Douglas had values I deeply agree with.

Trudeau drove the nation into politics - love him or hate him.

Pearson was a man of consensus and diplomacy.

Suzuki is a vision of the future and the environment, of multiculturalism and activism.

Banting a great scientist.

But their greatest gifts to Canada in my opinion were of ideas and materials. Terry Fox's giftwas the inspiration of life itself, a gift I think he gave very humbly to Canada and to the world. He only asked for in return was for Canadians to help Canadians. Its a message that can speak to all Canadians, whether they are English or French, White or Asian or Black or Native or of any other ethnicity, male or female, left or right wing, young and old. It was a unifying gift, and speaks very fundamentally to what it is for me to say I am Canadian.

[ 19 October 2004: Message edited by: Hawkins ]


From: Burlington Ont | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 19 October 2004 11:14 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Very good post, Hawkins. Here are the final results from the Globe and Mail poll. I think he may have a shot at it. New Democrats can certainly be proud of Tommy Douglas's showing.

Pierre Elliott Trudeau  6733 votes   21%
Terry Fox  5723 votes   18%
Tommy Douglas  4254 votes   14%
Alexander Graham Bell  2851 votes   9%
Sir John A. Macdonald  2550 votes   8%
Lester B. Pearson  2413 votes   8%
Frederick Banting  2209 votes   7%
David Suzuki  2201 votes   7%
Don Cherry  1184 votes   4%
Wayne Gretzky  1392 votes   4%


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 20 October 2004 12:14 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Not that I'm all that keen on the idea of "role models" anyway, but do you really mean to say, WW, that in order to be a "female role model," one must be in science/technology?

Maybe Bodnar's nomination had something to do with a weightless environment?


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reflex
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posted 20 October 2004 12:18 AM      Profile for Reflex     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here is the list from 51-100 for those interested.

51. Pamela Anderson (television actress, model, producer)
52. Craig Kielburger (children’s rights activist)
53. Gordie Howe (hockey player)
54. William Stephenson (soldier, airman, businessman, inventor, spymaster, intelligence representitive)
55. Glenn Gould (pianist)
56. William Shatner (actor, writer)
57. Lucy Maud Montgomery (author)
58. Paul Henderson (ice hockey player)
59. Tim Horton (hockey player, founder of the Tim Hortons donut chain)
60. Stan Rogers (folk musician, composer)
61. Sir William Edmond Logan (geologist)
62. Marshall McLuhan (educator, academic, philosopher)
63. Roberta Bondar (astronaut)
64. Brian Mulroney (prime minister)
65. Burton Cummings (musician)
66. Sheila Fraser (auditor general)
67. Patrick Roy (ice hockey goaltender)
68. Jean Béliveau (professional ice hockey player)
69. René Lévesque (reporter, founder of the Parti Quebecois, prime minister of Quebec)
70. James Naismith (inventor of basketball)
71. Margaret Atwood (novelist, poet, literary critic, author)
72. Senator Anne C. Cools (senator)
73. David Thompson (surveyor, explorer)
74. Emily Murphy (women’s rights activist)
75. Sarah McLachlan (musician, singer)
76. John McCrae (poet, doctor)
77. Dr. Charles Best (medical scientist)
78. Robert Munsch (children’s author)
79. Ed Belfour (NHL goalie)
80. Chief Dan George (actor)
81. Sandra Schmirler (curler)
82. Dan Aykroyd (comedian, actor, screenwriter)
83. Elijah Harper (politician, band chief)
84. Kurt Browning (figure skater)
85. Emily Carr (artist, writer)
86. Mike Weir (professional golfer)
87. Dr. Henry Morgantaler (abortionist)
88. Farley Mowat (novelist, non-fiction author)
89. Donovan Bailey (athlete)
90. Bryan Adams (singer, songwriter)
91. Preston Manning (politician, first leader of the Reform Party)
92. John Molson (brewer, entrepreneur)
93. Joni Mitchell (musician, painter)
94. Anne Murray (singer)
95. Sir Frederick Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby (governor general)
96. Geddy Lee (musician, vocalist, bassist, keyboardist)
97. Louise Arbour (jurist)
98. Mordecai Richler (author, scriptwriter, essayist)
99. Sam Steele (member of the northwest mounted police)
100. J. S. Woodsworth (pioneer of the social democratic movement)

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: Reflex ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 20 October 2004 01:53 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Reflex:

82. Dan Aykroyd (comedian, actor, screenwriter)

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: Reflex ]



And John Belushi should be nominated as greatest USian.

(I inhaled a sunflower seed laughing [ISYN] when I read "Ed Belfour" on that list. I'm a Leaves' fan, and I think Eddie's great, but come on!)


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
candle
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posted 20 October 2004 02:17 AM      Profile for candle     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How could Burton Cumming be on the list and not Randy Bachman. I'd take Randy any day over Burton.

And Paul Henderson - puke. Phil Esposito was the real hero of the summit series.

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: candle ]


From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 20 October 2004 04:18 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i'm ignorant on this point, so can someone enlighten me: is terry fox as much a symbol in french canada as english canada?
From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 20 October 2004 05:37 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
re Terry Fox: barely known, as I recall from Montreal

a good assessment, a total pan, of this whole exercise (pay-format):
http://tinyurl.com/4apkn

Here are some of the top 10 nominees from the Greatest Briton series, broadcast in 2002: Churchill, Darwin, Shakespeare, Newton, Elizabeth I, Nelson and Cromwell. For last year's Greatest German contest, they included Adenauer, Luther, Marx, Bach, Gutenberg, Goethe, Bismarck and Einstein. And in Canada? Would you believe David Suzuki? Also Don Cherry. Oh, and Alexander Graham Bell, who was born in Scotland and lived most of his life in the United States, but spent his vacations here.

It gets worse. As you move through the rest of the top 50, you find a heavy representation of pop divas (Celine, Shania, Avril Lavigne), lowbrow comics (Jim Carrey, Mike Myers, John Candy), hockey players (Gretzky, Richard, Orr, Lemieux), wrestlers (Bret "the Hitman" Hart) and, what do you know, CBC personalities: I count no fewer than five (in addition to Dr. Suzuki and Mr. Cherry, Peter Gzowski, Rick Mercer and "Mr. Dressup.") What a picture of Canada is on display! Apparently, this country has produced no writers to speak of (Pierre Berton and Leonard Cohen are the only ones to crack the top 50), no great artists, no serious musicians and precious few statesmen: While Trudeau, Pearson and Tommy Douglas -- apparently, Canadian history began around 1962 -- are represented in the top 10, it's a long way down to Laurier, at #43. [...] .
[...]
Canadian history does not need to be made "fun." The exploration, conquest and development of Canada is one of the greatest stories ever told, a tale of heroism and adventure, full of rude, passionate and sometimes violent individuals with an extraordinary appetite for life. If, in support of a particular ideology, it has been reduced to an orderly series of public works projects, that is hardly remedied by turning it into a parody of Canadian Idol.

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: Geneva ]


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 20 October 2004 09:06 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
i'm ignorant on this point, so can someone enlighten me: is terry fox as much a symbol in french canada as english canada?

Of the top ten, Trudeau is the only one who might make a Quebec-based list.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Pellaken1
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posted 20 October 2004 09:16 AM      Profile for Pellaken1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I hear some hometown is trying to support their hometown boy


I move that Babble come out in official support of Tommy!
we should make some kind of banner at at the top of the page "VOTE FOR TOMMY" and a link! I'm sure we can come up with other ideas too


From: Gritland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Pellaken1
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posted 20 October 2004 09:21 AM      Profile for Pellaken1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Banting, Suzuki, and Fox all were selfless in fighting for their cause; Fox died for it.

but Douglas acheived a feat they could not. By his death in 1987, Canada was what he had dreamed it could be. His values were our values. He more then any Prime Minister, rock star, or artist changed canada for the better.


From: Gritland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 20 October 2004 09:27 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fox didn't really die for his cause. He'd have died at the same time and in the same way if he'd never done anything to fight cancer. That's not to take anything away from him or his accomplishments, of course, but they didn't cause his death.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Biger Willy
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posted 20 October 2004 09:31 AM      Profile for Biger Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would like to say sorry as a Winnipegger for Hal Anderson’s, a local JACK ASS, campaign to get on the list. This is a sad and sick joke, comparing a DJ to the likes of Terry Fox, Preston Manning, and Don Cheery.
From: Winnipeg | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 20 October 2004 09:33 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Of the top ten, Trudeau is the only one who might make a Quebec-based list.

so, it's more a "greatest english canadian" vote by english canada?


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 20 October 2004 09:38 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Isn't Glen Gould Canadian?

Night Scrawler says Cherry is a free speech issue!

This other Sun Columnist makes a point:

quote:
Now, I'm a big fan of Cherry's and I do think he had every right to be on the top 50 list -- especially when some of the others included wrestler Bret "Hitman" Hart (No. 39), Avril Lavigne (No. 40) and Shania Twain (No. 18!). Poor Anne Murray, once Canada's snowbird, barely made the top 100 (she was 94th, right behind Joni Mitchell). How soon we forget.

The rest of her article is strange, but?

Anyway, the sad thing is that since both these columnists tell Sun-kins to go vote and apparently there is a kerfuffle over at the Star and Post, it's a shame the list is now limited to the ten. You might get a more diverse voting crowd. I'd also like to see the vote tallies?

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: clockwork ]


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
khrisse-boy
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posted 20 October 2004 09:52 AM      Profile for khrisse-boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was really disappointed in the top ten list, but I guess it's a reflection of the racism and sexism of Canadian society as a whole that there are no women and only one person of colour on a list of greatest Canadians. There's also only one francophone, and no Aboriginal people. It's not like people in these groups haven't done great things, I guess it's simply that we've often not heard about them because history was written by white anglo men who were most interested in the doings of white anglo men, or because the deeds we know about that were done by those who weren't white anglo men are less valued by a society built around white anglo patriarchal culture.

It's things like this that periodically remind me of the huge barriers many of us face in being able to participate equally in society, and to have our contributions recognized. I don't honestly feel like I can muster up a whole lot of excitement for a contest that essentially pays homage to the great white patriarchs of Canadian history and ignores the rest of us.

Just heard Judy Rebick on CBC talking about why no women made the top 10, and I think she was right on. I wish she had included the race and language factors in her analysis though... there's more going on here than just sexism.


From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 20 October 2004 11:09 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Er, how many spots should be allocated on the list to non-whites, non-males, etc? Is there a perfect list, especially one with ten spots?

edited: Looking aver some of the British list commentary, one guy put it, "the contest was over 400 years ago", nyuk, nuyuk.

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: clockwork ]


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pebbles
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posted 20 October 2004 11:46 AM      Profile for pebbles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by khrisse-boy:
I was really disappointed in the top ten list, but I guess it's a reflection of the racism and sexism of Canadian society as a whole that there are no women and only one person of colour on a list of greatest Canadians. There's also only one francophone, and no Aboriginal people. It's not like people in these groups haven't done great things

Oh give me a bloody break.

It's not like "they" don't have phones or internet connections, either.

If enough people had felt strongly enough that a suitable aboriginal wymyn of colour ought to have been in the top ten, they would have done what everyone else tried to do with their favourite "candidate" in this silly contest: stack the vote and stuff the box.

What kind of neuroses do we have as a society that we are wringing our collective hands over this nonsense? It's infotainment, people. It has about as much meaning in the real world as a Bowflex infomercial.

quote:
It's things like this that periodically remind me of the huge barriers many of us face in being able to participate equally in society, and to have our contributions recognized. I don't honestly feel like I can muster up a whole lot of excitement for a contest that essentially pays homage to the great white patriarchs of Canadian history and ignores the rest of us.

Who did you vote for? Who did you organize a campaign for?

quote:
Just heard Judy Rebick on CBC talking about why no women made the top 10, and I think she was right on.

Judy of the gender-parity Senate is a useless twit.

quote:
I wish she had included the race and language factors in her analysis though...

Gosh... an infotainnment contest on English television is heavy on the anglos... Do you not imagine the same thing on Radio-Canada or TVA would show a similar "bias"?


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 20 October 2004 12:06 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
so, it's more a "greatest english canadian" vote by english canada?

Considering the likely winner is PET, I don't know that you could call it the greatest English Canadian, but the show airs on CBC only, and most voters will likely be English-speaking Canadians.

An attempt to make it truly national simply wouldn't work because cultural and historical icons aren't shared.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Marthas Monthly
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posted 20 October 2004 12:44 PM      Profile for Marthas Monthly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A little group of women in Alberta (who normally protest provincial politics) are building our own list of top 50 ALL WOMEN for the Greatest Canadian. We would love to hear from you and build a list of nominations that we will push to the media. We were especially struck that no women made the top 10 as this is Women's History Month. It is clear Canadians need more history than the "white, male who plays hockey" variety. EMail us at [email protected] with your suggestions.
Thanks!

From: Lethbridge, Alberta | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
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posted 20 October 2004 12:55 PM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Great idea Martha! I've started a a new thread to gather suggestions.
From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 20 October 2004 12:58 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Judy of the gender-parity Senate is a useless twit.

you probably wouldn't have babble if it wasn't for judy.

quote:
Gosh... an infotainnment contest on English television is heavy on the anglos... Do you not imagine the same thing on Radio-Canada or TVA would show a similar "bias"?

i think my point is that it's billed as "the greatest canadian hero" (PET flying whilst wearing that silly william katt supersuit?), and it's really all about english canada.

quote:
An attempt to make it truly national simply wouldn't work because cultural and historical icons aren't shared.

if "canada" doesn't have cultural/historical things in common, why have a country at all, then?

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: Willowdale Wizard ]


From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 20 October 2004 01:17 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sara, your new thread link doesn't work right.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sara Mayo
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posted 20 October 2004 01:19 PM      Profile for Sara Mayo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oops. Here's the link to the Greatest Canadian Women thread.
From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 20 October 2004 01:35 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
if "canada" doesn't have cultural/historical things in common, why have a country at all, then?

Because it's already there. Perhaps if the Atlantic provinces, Quebec and Ontario and points west had developed as separate countries, an arrangement more like Europe's would have developed.

But that's not they way things happened. For most of us, the advantages of remaining as one country outweigh the disadvantages of splitting up, even if people in Quebec do watch different TV shows.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
pebbles
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posted 20 October 2004 01:35 PM      Profile for pebbles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
you probably wouldn't have babble if it wasn't for judy.

Meh. No huge loss; we'd all just be posting elsewhere, as many of us do.

quote:
i think my point is that it's billed as "the greatest canadian hero" (PET flying whilst wearing that silly william katt supersuit?), and it's really all about english canada.

Now whose fault is that?

Those are who the participants in this silly exerise nominated. If it's "really all about english canada", it's a function of the fact that it's on a network with an English-Canadian audience, not some vast anglo conspiracy.

quote:
if "canada" doesn't have cultural/historical things in common, why have a country at all, then?

I reject the premise that follows the word "if" here, so there's no need to answer the question.


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
khrisse-boy
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posted 20 October 2004 03:34 PM      Profile for khrisse-boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pebbles:

Oh give me a bloody break.

It's not like "they" don't have phones or internet connections, either.

If enough people had felt strongly enough that a suitable aboriginal wymyn of colour ought to have been in the top ten, they would have done what everyone else tried to do with their favourite "candidate" in this silly contest: stack the vote and stuff the box.

What kind of neuroses do we have as a society that we are wringing our collective hands over this nonsense? It's infotainment, people. It has about as much meaning in the real world as a Bowflex infomercial.


My point is simply that the fact that the people who participated didn't know women/poc/Aboriginals who they felt were contenders, or that they didn't vote for the ones they knew, is a reflection of the racism and sexism of Canadian society. Many members of those groups in Canada have made tremendous contributions to the communties they live in, to Canada and to the world. The fact that we (all of us, including women/poc/Aboriginal people) as a society don't seem to value those people or those contributions suggests that systemic sexism and racism are alive and well.

Pebbles, is it that you don't think that sexism and racism exist, that you think they exist but that they're not part of thr equation in this instance, or that you just wish people would stop pointing them out because you don't care?


From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
pebbles
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posted 20 October 2004 04:02 PM      Profile for pebbles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by khrisse-boy:
Pebbles, is it ... that you think they exist but that they're not part of thr equation in this instance...

This one.


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
pebbles
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posted 20 October 2004 04:08 PM      Profile for pebbles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by khrisse-boy:
Many members of those groups in Canada have made tremendous contributions to the communties they live in, to Canada and to the world. The fact that we (all of us, including women/poc/Aboriginal people) as a society don't seem to value those people or those contributions suggests that systemic sexism and racism are alive and well.

Until relatively recently, the people who have tended to make the largest and longest-lasting changes to Canadian society, have been white men. Whether you want them to be or not, that's what they were. This is partially a function of the institutional and cultural biases of the past (dominated by said w.m.), but also because what we deem to be important is often what is proven, over time, to have been of enduring value. Hence, you're more likely to get old, dead, white men, rather than new, living people, whether white men or brown women or aboriginal transgendereds. A bias towards the past is inherently a bias towards men and white guys. Even Stephen Harper isn't going to be on even a relatively objective, relatively balanced list, not because Stephen Harper is inherently worthless as a contributor to Canadian society (cough), but because it's not up to us to decide that, it'll be up to our grandchildren who have the benefit of hindsight.

Now, these general principles don't even really apply in the CBC case, because it's a self-selecting phone-in clapping contest. I don't think Don Cherry has any business being on the list from a stand-back, "objective" point of view, but neither, for that matter, does Suzuki or Bell or Gretzky, or probably anyone else who is still alive.


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Marc
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posted 20 October 2004 06:00 PM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Am I the only one who noticed that Anne Cools was in the Top 100? (Number 72) Where is the puking smiley? I guess this one will have to work...

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: Marc ]


From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
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posted 20 October 2004 06:44 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fuck, David Suzuki has done a great job at passing off fake science for years. He is an advocate who pretends to be an expert.

Although the list is pretty shamefull. Wayne Gretsky? Don "fuck the french" Cherry?

Im not sure if any one Canadian is really that great. I do know that Gretsky and Cherry are just stupid rich guys that have no effect on anyone's lives.

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: Le Téléspectateur ]


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
praenomen3
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posted 20 October 2004 07:06 PM      Profile for praenomen3        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My sympathy's with CBC on this one. If they established this list by a panel of learned luminaries, you would hear mutterings of elitist eastern race n' gender PC revisionist posturing. But, if you leave it to a public vote, you get . . . what we're talking about. I think what they did this summer with the greatest songs of all time was better; a public vote culled by a diverse panel. The final outcomes were fairly complimentary on each side.
From: x | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 20 October 2004 07:10 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
.

[ 20 October 2004: Message edited by: remind ]


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 20 October 2004 07:24 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Origionally posted by le Telespecteur:

Fuck, David Suzuki has done a great job at passing off fake science for years. He is an advocate who pretends to be an expert.


FAKE SCIENCE!?!?! Are you living in a cave?! Get this through your little anti-environmentalist Quebecois head. (Not that I'm anti-quebecois, you just might understand it better en francais)

TU AS PAS D'IDEE QUE TU PARLES DE IDIOT IGNORANT!!!

(A seditive pill or two later)
I find it interesting how people are ignoring Sir John A. (I'm voting for Suzuki, because he's in some trouble) its really easy to argue that he saved the Canadian West, if not all of Canada from American annexation. He should seriously be in the top 3 at least.


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
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posted 20 October 2004 07:28 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know it's been beaten to death elsewhere but Alexander Graham Bell wasn't Canadian either. He emigrated to Canada in 1870 and moved to the US a year or so later. He did like to spend his summers at his father's home in Brantford, Ontario but, to the best of my knowledge, he was never a Canadian citizen.
From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
fuslim
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posted 20 October 2004 07:36 PM      Profile for fuslim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Fuck, David Suzuki has done a great job at passing off fake science for years. He is an advocate who pretends to be an expert.

With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about.

"As a young zoology professor at the University of British Columbia, Suzuki gained international recognition for his research into temperature-sensitive genetic mutations in fruit flies, work that won him, for three years running (1969-71), the E.W.R. Steacie Memorial Fellowship, presented to Canada’s Best Young Scientist Under 35.

Over the years, Suzuki has delivered more than 500 lectures around the world, has received no fewer than 11 honorary university degrees.

Presented with the 1968 UNESCO Kalinga Prize for science writing, he joined such celebrated company as Julian Huxley, Bertrand Russell, and Margaret Mead."

Fake science indeed.

When Philip Rushton published his ridiculous examination of penis size and racial characteristcs a few years back, Suzuki was one of the first to point out how fraudulent the science was.

If I remember correctly, he was soundly denounced in the popular media for this, but at least no one was dumb enough to say he was "an advocate who pretends to be an expert."

He may be an advocate, he is also an internationally recognized expert.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 20 October 2004 07:45 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's important to have people who can popularize science and let people know just what is going on. Suzuki has done this very well.

I recall when the newspapers had science and/or environment reporters; how many do nowadays? Who but CBC tells us about Canada's environment?

Pierre Berton played a similar role with Canadian history; historians rightly criticise him for errors, or sometimes emphasizing the wrong things, or for mythmaking; but he did tell us stories about ourselves when few others were doing it.

I don't know if anyone has had reason to criticize Suzuki's science, except the rightwing flatearthers who still refuse to notice that the climate is changing.


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
pebbles
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posted 20 October 2004 08:36 PM      Profile for pebbles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Marc:
Am I the only one who noticed that Anne Cools was in the Top 100? (Number 72) Where is the puking smiley? I guess this one will have to work...

SupermegaBARF! Ugh!


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
shaolin
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posted 20 October 2004 08:58 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does anyone know how many people voted in order to get this top 10 list? I'm sure I read somewhere 140,000 (Was it here? Should I have scrolled back further in this thread?), in which case I think panties are getting twisted for no good reason. 140,000 people doesn't really make a dent when we've got over 30 million.

Also, jumping online to vote in the latest opinion poll isn't exactly something that each population demographic does in even numbers. I don't get angry when the latest Canadian Idol winner doesn't represent me, I'm not going to get worked up over yet another silly tv contest.


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clockwork
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posted 21 October 2004 04:10 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Note on Suzuki: he was a great geneticist but parlaying that fame into an environmental platform, even one I might a agree with, are two completely different things. Hell, a year a two ago I saw a Suzuki special investigating ESP or whatever (and, to note, I discussed this on babble so it's just a search away). His science career is great, his media career, at least in the last few years, is off the *(^*&* wall.

I watch the Nature of Things, and I happen to agree with climate change or whatnot. But Suzuki has lost it only judging by the books I've read from hin.


From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 21 October 2004 06:39 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
re Suzuki's science:
I certainly cannot judge the value of his science; any calm geneticists around who can set it out in context? and esp. his work's long-term value vs that of other top top Canadian scientists: ex., Tak Mak, Hans Selye, Polanyi, Banting, Logan, etc etc.

re Suzuki's public career:
THAT, I can comment on; in one brief period in 1987-89, I worked for 2 media organizations that hired and ran Suzuki's columns, then dumped/ended his collaboration: every column the same thing, re-wraped again and again and again

new arguments rare; for the faithful only

Suzuki often passed off as uncontested fact some very controversial notions re global warming, population growth, forest regeneration, the state of the oceans, economic growth and the environment

I will take Bjorn Lomborg's skepticism any day:
http://tinyurl.com/3zc6b

also, on a minor personal point: the guy is an obnoxious and egocentric bore, who dismisses the little people in the most haughty academic fashion, again in my experience only

not Top 10 material, I say

[ 21 October 2004: Message edited by: Geneva ]


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
khrisse-boy
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posted 21 October 2004 10:56 AM      Profile for khrisse-boy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pebbles:

Until relatively recently, the people who have tended to make the largest and longest-lasting changes to Canadian society, have been white men. Whether you want them to be or not, that's what they were. This is partially a function of the institutional and cultural biases of the past (dominated by said w.m.), but also because what we deem to be important is often what is proven, over time, to have been of enduring value. Hence, you're more likely to get old, dead, white men, rather than new, living people, whether white men or brown women or aboriginal transgendereds. A bias towards the past is inherently a bias towards men and white guys.


I don't think we're really disagreeing here on what's happened to create that list of 10 mostly white men. I do think we're disagreeing on what to call the cause. The biases that allowed white men to dominate and that allowed the chievements of other groups to be ignored that you've pointed out towards white men are a big part of what constitutes systemic racism and sexism.

You can always say that it's only a silly phone-in contest, or that those who voted aren't representative of what Canadian society really thinks, or any reason basically to suggest that we shouldn't take it seriously. On one level, you're right.... it IS only a silly phone-in contest and likely those that phone in aren't really representative of the views of society as a whole. However, on another level it's deadly serious. Once again Canadians are being subjected to the media message (however it was developed) that those who contributed, the REAL nation-builders, were white anglo men, and the implication that the contributions of women, people of colour, francophones, and Aboriginal people don't really count. Media shapes public opinion as well as being shaped by it, and this contest, however frivolous it may seem, seems like a step backward to me. It's easy for members of the majority groups to say that we shouldn't take it seriously, you're just being politically correct, lighten up, etc, but for us it's serious, for us these frivolous portrayals of Canada's history have all too real and serious impacts on our lives.

I hope this clarifies the reasons for my reation.


From: Ottawa, ON | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 21 October 2004 11:13 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
pebbles: Can you tone down your vitrol a notch? Thanks.

Are Deaf activists reacting at all to the inclusion of Graham Bell? I know a lot of people who call him "The Hitler of the Deaf community."


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 21 October 2004 11:22 AM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Graham Bell/Hitler. That would be vitriol, all right.
From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 21 October 2004 11:23 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
?
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 21 October 2004 12:05 PM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thomas Edison = Hitler of the blind?

sheesh ...

let's just agree: anyone whose influence and/or impact is not equally distributed and equally beneficial for all ethnic, racial, gender/ed and ability groups cannot qualify as great

that settles it


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 21 October 2004 12:14 PM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
click!

quote:
One of the earliest modern advocates of eugenic ideas (before they were labeled as such) was Alexander Graham Bell, best known as one of the inventors of the telephone. In 1881, Bell investigated the rate of deafness on Martha's Vineyard, Mass. From this he concluded that deafness was hereditary in nature and recommended a marriage prohibition against the deaf (in his "Memoir upon the formation of a deaf variety of the human Race"). Like many other early eugenicists, he proposed controlling immigration for the purpose of eugenics, and warned that boarding schools for the deaf could be considered possible breeding places of a deaf human race.

From: england (hometown of toronto) | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 21 October 2004 12:27 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly. He also was a big proponent of Deaf kids being forced into speech reading and talking classes. For adults who remember being beaten as kids when they were caught signing, I can see why they feel this way.

What did Edison do regarding blind folks?

[ 21 October 2004: Message edited by: audra trower williams ]


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 21 October 2004 12:39 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't find any connection. Edison had many faults, but none that I'm aware of regarding blind people. He did anticipate the phonograph being used for talking books, but I've never encountered blind people with an objection to them. Braille isn't a distinct language and culture like sign language, it's just another alphabet representation of the alphabet, one that has many disadvantages.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 21 October 2004 12:51 PM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
my error,
I did not realize Bell was aggressively eugenicist or anything of the kind, and thought opening up the phone to the hearing only was considered a crime ...

From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pellaken1
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posted 21 October 2004 09:55 PM      Profile for Pellaken1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Douglas is currently in the lead, but he is close to Fox and Trudeau. Douglas' show is done, that means he is expected to be in the lead. it's a quesiton of if he can hold on to the lead. with Fox and Trudeau nipping at his heals it will be tough. Douglas will finish in the top 3, mark my words.
From: Gritland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 21 October 2004 11:10 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Geneva:
my error,
I did not realize Bell was aggressively eugenicist or anything of the kind, and thought opening up the phone to the hearing only was considered a crime ...

Oh. So you thought blind people wouldn't like Edison because they couldn't use lightbulbs. I get it. Yeah, no. That's not what I meant.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
asterix
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posted 23 October 2004 11:00 AM      Profile for asterix     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Marc, you're not the only one who noticed Anne Cools in there.

It's appalling, of course. Anne Cools is the most deserving "first black _________" in Canadian history?!? Like, ain't you people never heard of Rosemary Brown?

I suspect the real story on that one has to do with Conservative partisans voting her up because of her party affiliation switch back in the spring. (Especially since Sheila Fraser, who's achieved nothing worthy of note besides exposing the sponsorship scandal, is also in the Top 100.)

Like, yuck.


From: deep inside the caverns of my mind | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 23 October 2004 11:18 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pellaken1:
Douglas is currently in the lead, but he is close to Fox and Trudeau.

Where are you getting this information from? I've been unable to find vote tallies on the site.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 23 October 2004 12:00 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like the 22 Minutes negative ads against Suzuki and Douglas; approved by Bell, who really, really wants to win.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Pellaken1
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posted 23 October 2004 12:23 PM      Profile for Pellaken1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:

Where are you getting this information from? I've been unable to find vote tallies on the site.


from the show, where after the show they announced it. looked on the site for numbers, there are none.

the exact quote was that they are "close" in terms of votes.


From: Gritland | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 23 October 2004 12:42 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ah, OK, thanks. I spent a long time trying to find them on site.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
ice age coming
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posted 23 October 2004 01:43 PM      Profile for ice age coming     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The thing about Dr. Suzuki is that the foundation of his activism is based on his observation that scientific reductionism is to blame for our ecological crisis.

My point of contention is that scientific reductionism is only applied to mathematical systems in the realm of physics, not empirical systems based on observational data.

He's welcome to disagree but then he turns around and goes on about Global Warming. If ever an ecological theory was the product of scientific reductionism, its GW. Weather is chaotic and our best models can't even predict a day in advanced to scientific detail (not talking about the six o'clock weather forcast) and has time progresses, they become more and more divergent (aka the butterfly effect). So you take a 20 years of good observational data, extrapolate thousands of years, and then reduce it to a generalized theory.

I'm not saying its wrong. But its exactly what he preaches against in other contexts.

I realize this isn't very relevant to the topic at hand, but its more a response to those getting into the details of his modus operandi. I do think, dispite this, he is a great Canadian and certainly fits the mold of a CBC special of such.

Of the list, my vote would go to Terry Fox.


From: Dubai, UAE | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
fuslim
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posted 25 October 2004 03:52 PM      Profile for fuslim     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I will take Bjorn Lomborg's skepticism any day:

Speaking of skeptical, here's a bit on Lomborg from the Skeptical Inquirer.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2002-11/environment.html

I had occasion to revisit Sagan's baloney detection kit in the context of reading The Skeptical Environmentalist, a book by Danish statistician Bjorn Lomborg.

Lomborg's book has attracted remarkable negative comment from the scientific community, juxtaposed with positive gushes from the popular press. The Washington Post calls it "the most significant work on the environment since the appearance of its polar opposite, Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, in 1962" (Dutton 2001). Similar kudos are offered by The Economist.

In contrast, there has been a plethora of negative reviews of the book in scientific journals, including the heavyweights Nature, which calls it "deeply flawed" (Pimm and Harvey 2001), and Science, which disapproves of Lomborg's selective use of data (Grubb 2001).

Other negative reviews have appeared in more specialized science journals, such as Environment (Gleick 2001) and World Watch (Bell 2002).

Among the most vociferous critics has been Scientific American, which countered with its own debunking article (Rennie 2002), including rebuttals by a coterie of scientific heavyweights, all of whom refute Lomborg's claims.

The gist of the scientific feedback against Lomborg is that he displays wilful ignorance, quotes selectively from the works of others, and, perhaps above all else, courts the attention of media that accept his work at face value, in an uncritical manner (Wilson 2001).

The oddity is that the book, while claiming to be a skeptical review of a wide body of "doomsaying" environmental studies, should itself be subject to a healthy dose of skepticism.

A reasonable layperson is likely to look askance at Lomborg's claims that virtually every environmental indicator is better than scientists claim, including world hunger, global warming, forest depletion, species extinction, loss of nonrenewables, acid rain, as well as water, air, and wastewater pollution.

A reasonable person is also likely to view with marked disbelief Lomborg's claims that all that bad news is the result of a directed and concerted cabal of environmental pressure groups to conceal the truth. In a nutshell, the truth may be out there . . . but not in this book.


From: Vancouver BC | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 25 October 2004 05:33 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Current standings for Greatest Canadian:
1. T. Douglas (you'll love that one)
2. T. Fox
3. P. Trudeau
4. D. Suzuki (I love that one)
5. F. Banting
6. L. Pearson
7. D. Cherry
8. W. Gretzky
9. J.A. MacDonald
10. A.G. Bell (negitive ads never work )

And my outragous nomination of the day

#51 PAMELA ANDERSON

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! Maybe she could win "Greatest Canadian Rack" (excuse me) but coming a whisker away from getting on the show seems ridiculous! ACK!!


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 25 October 2004 11:56 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Point of order... If you've already voted, the second voting period is now open.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
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posted 29 October 2004 01:02 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It takes less than 20 seconds to vote:

The quickest way to vote is by phone. Registering on the CBC web site can take hours. According to the rules you can vote 5 times every week for 10 weeks. But some eager voters vote many more times.

1) Dial 1-866-303-8683
2) press 1 immediately
3) as soon as you hear: "Now's your chance...." press 14 (the # for Tommy Douglas)
4) press 1 to confirm.
5) repeat.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 29 October 2004 01:29 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i also found the list interesting. maybe the corps should have called the list the most popular canadian.

from the top 10 my vote is for Mike Pearson -- Peace Prize and our flag. Because of Mike Diefenbaker called the Maple Leaf until his death Pearson's Pennant.

But what amazed me about the top 50 list is those not on it, for example:
Ellen Fairclough First Female Cabinet Minister
Lincoln Alexander First Black MP, Cabinet Minister, Lieut Governon
Group of 7
Kay Livingstone
George Etienne Cartier
Étienne-Paschal Taché who chaired the quebec conference that led to the creation of the dominion of canada
Canadian Brass musical group
Andrew Mynarski VC
Hon. Padre John Foote, MPP, VC
Vincent Massey
George P Vanier
Maurice Duplessis
the o'keefe family
the bronfmans

i have probably forgotten many more


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hibwa
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posted 05 November 2004 05:16 PM      Profile for Hibwa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hi Gang,

I'm a little late but was wondering if anyone knew the music that was played as the brief segment on Stephen Lewis begain? Also, the music for Wayne sounded pretty cool.

I tried mailing the CBC but received no response and figured that someone here would know.

Thanks,
Jones


From: Southern Ontario - Sometimes | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rush
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posted 19 June 2005 07:07 PM      Profile for Rush     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CBC is re-running the Greatest Canadian series. Tonight, Sunday June 19 at 5 PM is the first episode Tommy Douglas.

This program is also going to be rerun on July 1. http://www.cbc.ca/programguide/program/index.jsp?program=The+Greatest+Canadian


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 19 June 2005 09:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They're re-running it?

Gee, I wonder who will win!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 19 June 2005 09:49 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
They're re-running it?

Gee, I wonder who will win!


This time 'round. I'm voting for Godzilla!


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged

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