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Author Topic: Another Tour, another doping scandal
Snuckles
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Babbler # 2764

posted 25 July 2007 12:09 AM      Profile for Snuckles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Team withdraws after Vinokourov has positive test

PAU, France — Cycling and its premier event, the Tour de France, were reeling Tuesday from yet another blow that threatened what was left of the race's credibility: a failed doping test by one of its biggest stars.

Alexandre Vinokourov of Kazakhstan tested positive for a banned blood transfusion after winning Saturday's time trial, prompting his Astana team to pull out of the Tour and sending police on a raid of the team hotel.

Tour director Christian Prudhomme said that although the 20-stage race would go on, the latest drug case showed cycling's testing system doesn't work.

"It's an absolute failure of the system," Prudhomme said. "It is a system which does not defend the biggest race in the world. This is a system which can't last."

Before Tuesday's bombshell, Tour leader Michael Rasmussen of the Rabobank team was battling doping suspicions because he skipped drug controls before the Tour start.

The Danish rider is favored to claim victory in Paris on Sunday.

All this on top of the lingering scandal involving 2006 champion Floyd Landis, an American who was unable to defend his title because he tested positive during last year's Tour.


Read it here.


From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sandy47
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10648

posted 25 July 2007 07:02 AM      Profile for Sandy47     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It may be time we just all assume pro athete = user.

It's all bread and circuses anyway. My pro sports intake has fallen way off in recent years.


Update: Here's another. Quelle surprise

[ 25 July 2007: Message edited by: Sandy47 ]


From: Southwest of Niagara - 43.0° N 81.2° W | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 25 July 2007 04:06 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sports Illustrated has an excellent piece about cheating is sports, a list of 25 of the most infamous cheating scandals, and an examination of the specific type of cheating done in several of the major sports, including hockey.

For any sport fan, it's pretty sickening.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 25 July 2007 04:11 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As far as the Tour goes, I'm not even watching it this year. After the Landis fiasco from 2006, I couldn't be bothered. It's a joke...a sick joke. This year's revelations have just confirmed that it's not worth watching. The riders are a bunch of cheaters who have chosen to win at all cost...even at the expense of their integrity.
From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Moshe Feinstein
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posted 25 July 2007 04:39 PM      Profile for Moshe Feinstein     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Remember the All Drug Olympics from SNL? That's what all professional sports seem to be devolving towards.

youtube


From: Manitoba | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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Babbler # 1885

posted 26 July 2007 05:49 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm with Sven on this one. I watched the Tour as much as possible for these past years, when the broadcasts have been available on OLN. This year, I haven't watched a single stage. The greed, lack of concern over ethics, and continued denials of all the top riders (past and present) completely turned me off the sport. I hope a lot of people have taken the same attitude, and that the Tour, sponsors, and riders are hit hard financially.
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 26 July 2007 06:37 AM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All of the sports illustrated examples, or most of them, are about baseball. It's a very biased list.
From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 26 July 2007 06:43 AM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Where is Lance Armstrong on that list? Do we, like Fox Mulder, in spite of the evidence, want to believe?
From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 26 July 2007 06:51 AM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
Where is Lance Armstrong on that list? Do we, like Fox Mulder, in spite of the evidence, want to believe?



From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Farmpunk
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posted 26 July 2007 07:25 AM      Profile for Farmpunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vino was one of my favourite riders. This puts a final nail in the coffin, for me. Like others posting here I've not watched a single day of Tour coverage. I always loved watching the mountain stages, but I kept myself away this year in protest. I can't trust the sport anymore. It's broken.

What cycling needs are more riders like Bjarne Riis, Tour winner, who came out and said he cheated and that he didn't want the title anymore. He erased himself from the record books.

Armstrong's stance has generally been: "I've never tested positive." A good statement for the lawyers out there.

Makes me wonder if any of the people I raced cyclocross against were doping. They certainly kicked my ass, even the pre-teens.

[ 26 July 2007: Message edited by: Farmpunk ]


From: SW Ontario | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 26 July 2007 07:28 AM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
All of the sports illustrated examples, or most of them, are about baseball. It's a very biased list.

Why? Do you think there should be more examples of cheating from hockey? Basketball? Some other major sport? Baseball is notorious for cheating. Just because there are more examples from baseball does not make the list "biased".

With regard to Lance Armstrong, the guy has been tested for drugs more often (and randomly) than any other athlete in any sport. Never tested positive. That all being said, given the drug pall than hangs over the sport, I don't have complete confidence that he didn't use drugs, but that, by itself, is certainly not enough to warrant putting him on the list of top drug scandals.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
500_Apples
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posted 26 July 2007 08:13 AM      Profile for 500_Apples   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:

Why? Do you think there should be more examples of cheating from hockey? Basketball? Some other major sport? Baseball is notorious for cheating. Just because there are more examples from baseball does not make the list "biased".

With regard to Lance Armstrong, the guy has been tested for drugs more often (and randomly) than any other athlete in any sport. Never tested positive. That all being said, given the drug pall than hangs over the sport, I don't have complete confidence that he didn't use drugs, but that, by itself, is certainly not enough to warrant putting him on the list of top drug scandals.


There's a lot of baseball because it's an American magazine.

That American magazine put Rafael Palmeiro as the number two doping case in history - wtf? What about the East German athletes from the 1970s? Wikipedia has a better list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_%28sport%29


From: Montreal, Quebec | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 26 July 2007 09:20 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Farmpunk:

What cycling needs are more riders like Bjarne Riis, Tour winner, who came out and said he cheated and that he didn't want the title anymore. He erased himself from the record books.


Agreed. Riis really stepped up, despite his doping history. The Tour was quick to react to his statements, in the hopes that other past winners wouldn't consider stepping forward.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 26 July 2007 09:20 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vino: gone.
Rasmussen: gone.
1996 champion admits taking steriods.
1997 champion implicated in doping scandal.

I don't think there's anything that can save the sport, short of polygraph testing.


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 26 July 2007 09:46 AM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
I don't think there's anything that can save the sport, short of polygraph testing.

The sport needs to crash and burn before it can be revived. If more sponsors start walking away and if TV stops covering the Tour (German TV packed up and left the tour about a week ago), then rider salaries will take a hit. When the riders get financially punished for this widespread stupidity, only then is there a hope that the sport can thrive. The riders need to understand that doping is counter to their own personal interests.

Yet, as the Sports Illustrated article I linked to above makes plain, professional (and Olympic) sports are awash in greed and too many participants will sacrifice integrity for winning. Fame and money are simply more important than ethics and integrity.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
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posted 26 July 2007 12:33 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
With regard to Lance Armstrong, the guy has been tested for drugs more often (and randomly) than any other athlete in any sport. Never tested positive. That all being said, given the drug pall than hangs over the sport, I don't have complete confidence that he didn't use drugs, but that, by itself, is certainly not enough to warrant putting him on the list of top drug scandals.

Well, they put Barry Bonds on the list! And, there have been positive tests of Armstrong's uncovered (allegedly) by L'equipe. There is the strange "code of silence" on Armstrong by all these riders who have been confessing and pointing fingers at everyone else, there are personal testimonials, there's association with known doping doctors. And of course, there's the fact that somehow, Armstrong annihilated an entire generation of doping riders for seven years after changing his entire body type and recovering from cancer.


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 26 July 2007 05:19 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I remember having to do a report in high school about steroids and drug use in athletics. Back in the 70's, it was something most people though limited to eastern block olympic athletes.

My research kept referring to bicycle racing in Europe as perhaps the most drug riddled sport, and mentioned blood doping was popular for them and cross country skiers.

On the other side of the coin, I wonder how many innocent athletes have been done in by falsified tests?

How hard would it to be to bribe a lab tech? Easier than an in the public eye French or Russian figure skating judge? Easier than a goal tender in soccer? Easier than an NBA official?

I would think so.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
M.Gregus
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posted 26 July 2007 07:52 PM      Profile for M.Gregus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
Where is Lance Armstrong on that list? Do we, like Fox Mulder, in spite of the evidence, want to believe?

Here's another article on cheating in sports, that casts its net wider than baseball and includes Lance Armstrong among its suspected cases. It starts with Barry Bonds and moves directly to Armstrong as part of a list of eleven "tainted sports achievements."


From: capital region | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 27 July 2007 12:15 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Am I the only one that finds blood doping to be absolutely ghoulish? I just read about it on the links at wikipedia. I never knew that this existed, let alone 'gene doping.'

My dad is usually a pretty big cycling fan, but he is boycotting this years Tour - so is my uncle. They both seem pretty crushed by this lack of professionalism.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 July 2007 02:13 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm one of those people who thinks that people should just accept doping and move on.

Elite sports aren't really sport anymore anyhow. Sports should be about having fun and pushing yourself to the limit if you're into that. Elite sports are just about money and sponsorships now. So I figure, why not just let them dope? Most of them are doing it anyhow.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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Babbler # 1885

posted 10 August 2007 10:19 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tour de France winner's team will disband

quote:
The Discovery team was not able to avoid the suspicions of doping that have beset the sport. Contador held a news conference in Spain yesterday to deny the doping allegations that plagued him even before his victory last month. Armstrong was dogged by doping allegations for much of his career, though he has never tested positive and has denied ever doping. Discovery hired Ivan Basso to be its leader in December only to fire him in the spring after he became the target of an Italian investigation.

Three riders in this year’s Tour — not members of the Discovery team — tested positive during the race. The race leader was ejected after the 16th stage for lying to doping officials and another rider was found to have failed an out of competition drug test.

...

Bruyneel, 42, told the Belgian television network VRT yesterday that he would quit cycling. “I spoke to a few potential sponsors, but the situation in the sport is such that big companies don’t feel at ease being associated with cycling,” he said, according to a transcript posted on the network’s Web site.


I am cheering.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

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