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Author Topic: The Matrix
Michelle
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posted 12 October 2001 01:55 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, I'm not talking about Dawna.

But seriously...WOW WOW WOW. I finally watched The Matrix for the first time. WOW WOW WOW. I really, REALLY enjoyed it. Everything we've been talking about in my metaphysics class - oh man. Descartes' evil genius, the idea of being a brain in a vat being fed reality - wow. What is self, what is reality, what is it to be human? What an excellent movie. I sat there through the whole thing saying to myself (and whatever imaginary friends may have been watching the movie with me), "Oh! That's just like such-and-such an idea!" It was just...well, I'm blown away. I really enjoyed it.

I'll become coherent soon.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 12 October 2001 02:11 AM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For the first time? My god, girl. Get out more.
From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 12 October 2001 02:19 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I rented it last year sometime, except I rented it on DVD when it first hit the video stores. Unfortunately, the DVD turned out to be a dud right into the martial arts training scene and I took it back to the store to trade it for another one - but all copies of it were rented out. And for some reason, we didn't rent it again.

Since then, I kept meaning to see it, but I kept forgetting when I went to the video store that I wanted to see it. So I finally rented it, and watched it tonight once the munchkin went to sleep.

Wow. Just...wow. Really, really liked it.

Okay, I'm becoming incoherent again. Time for bed. Night night!

[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 12 October 2001 02:42 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I liked the Matrix myself, but more because of the fairly obvious (although sometimes subtle) similarities to the basic Christian myth of Jesus Christ's time on Earth and resurrection. There's several websites devoted to a very lucid and (I may say) objective analysis. Fascinating.

The thing I really like is the one line Morpheus speaks:

'What is "real"? How do you define "real"? ... "real" is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.'


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
LotusGrrrl
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posted 12 October 2001 03:33 AM      Profile for LotusGrrrl        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I loved the Matrix! In fact, it's one of the very few movies I own. I love the slow mo cinematography, the black gear, and the overt and covert messages. Very clever the naming of the Reeves character "Neo". Afterall, aren't we all searching for the "one" in one form or another?
From: vancouver | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 12 October 2001 03:48 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I named my firstborn "Trinity" so you can probably guess how I weigh in on this subject...

Hey, an idea (gotta be 1:00 am for this kind of stuff to be coming out of my brain) - the Matrix could be a good analogy for what we do here at babble: kind of unplug people from the collective (misinformed) mentality and bring them into the real world, teach them how to fight the system, and become human again. You know, wake up. But to get unplugged you've gotta ask the questions first - then as you're looking for the answers, ON THE INTERNET (how perfect is that), you come here, and the group offers you the choice of knowledge or ignorance.

So who's Morpheus? I nominate Dr. C (or maybe rasmus_raven?). Auditions for Trinity and other characters will begin at noon Friday...Michelle you've gotta try out at least for Trinity. But I think Audra might be stiff competition.

Then of course we need the guy who's willing to turn us all in cuz he can't stand knowing the truth and wants to go back to the bliss of ignorance...Chaos-Theory maybe??

But the biggie, of course, is who gets to be the Chosen One (condition: you've gotta look good in pleather and be able to say "I know kung fu" with just the right mix of surfer dude/Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon attitude).

The scary thought - when are those octopus-like machines and the agents gonna start tracking us down...


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 12 October 2001 03:58 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I nominate WingNut for Neo.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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Babbler # 1387

posted 12 October 2001 04:03 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have Matrix on DVD. I think it's just a good piece of sci-fi writing. Sometimes I just enjoy what's on the surface than reading too deep into it. Sure it has some questions but I think if one dwells too much on them, they'll have trouble distinguishing between reality and fantasy.

But, from a Christian standpoint, Neo would be the Christian representation of Christ. The enslavement would be the fall of Adam in the Garden of Eden. And where Christ comes many years later to free the oppressed and heal the sick. Morpheus could be interpreted as John the Baptist. While the guy who sold them out to the aliens would be Judas. But also, after Christ's return to heaven, the disciples afterwards were killed, such as the other guys in the team in the movie.

I also think that people who do see a movie like that, the Matrix, are seeking out God but just aren't aware of it or where to look.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 12 October 2001 04:03 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dr. C - Well, you, being Morpheus, would know best, now wouldn't you?

[ October 12, 2001: Message edited by: machiavellian ]


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
clockwork
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posted 12 October 2001 09:23 AM      Profile for clockwork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought Matrix could have been better, but I grew up reading cyberpunk, so I’m just nitpicking.
I’ve read a discussion on the deeper meaning of reality represented in this movie and giving other examples from the cinema along this line. A bunch of different movies were offered for comparison, much along the Christian, fight the evil thread like Dune or Star Wars. But I was less interested in the 'messiah has been found' angle as opposed to the ‘what is reality angle’. And in this vein I think the comparison to make is with eXistence.
In Matrix, the protagonist is forcibly shown the reality he lives in is a sham and has to deal with it. In eXistence, the main characters knowingly go into a fake reality but lose sight of what ‘reality’ ultimately is. I don’t know… did anyone else have the same thought? And I think this fits in more with machiavellian’s analogy (which also got talked about in the discussion I read and which makes me think eXistence is an even better comparison): are we discovering the real world or are we in danger of losing sight of what is real?
Personally I’ve read enough stuff to understand that the latter is definitely an undercurrent in certain segments.

From: Pokaroo! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 12 October 2001 10:46 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Michelle you've gotta try out at least for Trinity.

Haha ha ha ha...oh...ho ho ho...hee hee...

Ahem.

Remind me to send you a picture of myself sometime.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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Babbler # 184

posted 12 October 2001 11:26 AM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I find it interesting to see who wants to be whom in this thread about the Matrix movie. Not to be offensive at all but it sounds just like my daughter and her friends trying to be the quickest to choose the coolest and most beautiful people. So who should be the funny looking bald kid with the spoon, or the woman in the red dress or Mouse, Tank, Dozer or even the homeless guy in the subway station? And who might be the girl with the white rabbit? All were in positions of support without whom the movie would have made little sense. Maybe they would be the many other people on Babble that appear for a short time that lead the thoughts through transition.


Knock Knock Neo.


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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Babbler # 554

posted 12 October 2001 11:28 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The best thing about The Matix is that Keanu Reeves doesn't have many lines.
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 12 October 2001 11:47 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Double post - I was thinking I would have to be the Oracle - well, a white version of the Oracle. Suits my looks better - and I'm more of the introspective type than the action figure type anyhow.

quote:
But I was less interested in the 'messiah has been found' angle as opposed to the ‘what is reality angle’. And in this vein I think the comparison to make is with eXistence.

Oh, I definitely agree. That's why I didn't even bother to mention the messiah symbolism in my first post. I mean, why not just have a big flashing sign that says "Messiah figure" and "Christian symbolism" throughout the movie? I felt they could have toned that down a bit - and if they had to use that symbolism, they could have made it slightly more subtle - no need to hit us over the head with it.

Anyhow, it was the nature of reality stuff that really got to me - that was what I really grooved on. I thought that had a bit of a Buddhist flavour too, from the very small introduction I've had to Buddhism - the Matrix being conditional reality. However, I think the similarity likely stops there, because somehow I doubt that Buddhists, while believing that this world is only conditionally real, would also believe that Nirvana consists of finding out that humans are actually only battery power for machines.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trinitty
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posted 12 October 2001 11:54 AM      Profile for Trinitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Can anyone guess what I think of the movie?

We do plan on naming our first born daughter Trinitty. Mainly because it's such a pretty name, and the spiritual implications, and well, yeah, the movie is cool.

Welcome Michelle. Stay tuned, Matrix II and III are in production.


From: Europa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 12 October 2001 11:55 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh, Slick, I actually wrote my message about my looks being more suited to being the Oracle than Trinity before reading your post. I have no illusions about being the next supermodel. However, I think you'd have to have low self-esteem to purposefully cast yourself as a truly reprehensible character from the movie. Would you have more respect for someone who was so self-depreciating that they felt they would make a good Agent? I wouldn't. That doesn't say much about their character or their personality - not to mention that it would smack of digging for compliments: "Oh, NO, Slick, you're MUCH better looking/more intelligent/friendlier/more good than THAT guy..."
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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posted 12 October 2001 12:23 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
However, I think you'd have to have low self-esteem to purposefully cast yourself as a truly reprehensible character from the movie.

Low self-esteem? heh heh Maybe, though I don't really see myself at all in that movie.
Most of the time I am pretty comfortable with who I am. I can see many people here who don't fit into the star roles at all. And though I don't low enough self-esteem to see some afinity with the agent in the Matrix, I am able to immitate his voice to the point of creepy. I can do Homer and Otto from the Simpsons as well. My son does Saddam from South park very well and we have conversations with these voices from time to time.

Something I have notice change in is who the heros are today. It would seem that those who used to be the bad guys are now the heros and those who stood for good are now wimps. My son likes to watch wrestling and so I sit and watch with him sometimes just to keep up on what he is watching. The WWF show would be a pretty good example of what I am talking about. This is one of the subtile things in the matrix. If you die in the matrix, you die in real life. So when Neo and Trinity walk into the building to rescue Morpheus and slaughter all the guards, as well as the chuncks of building and helicopter dropping to the ground and killing who knows how many,
we still see them as heros.


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 12 October 2001 08:02 PM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now Michelle, I haven't seen a picture of you, so if perhaps you are disparaging your personal appearance, remember the Trinity in the movie eats nothing but gruel and was hooked up to those muscle-stimulating machines for quite a while. Who says you couldn't be her, under the same circumstances? Besides, I was nominating you more on the basis of your intellectual enlightenment level and your contributions to rabble, and IMHO, you still more than qualify on the basis of those criteria. Just as many other people here do too.

But if you want to be the Oracle, that's great too...are you going to make us some cookies?

quote:
Not to be offensive at all but it sounds just like my daughter and her friends trying to be the quickest to choose the coolest and most beautiful people. So who should be the funny looking bald kid with the spoon, or the woman in the red dress or Mouse, Tank, Dozer or even the homeless guy in the subway station?

To be fair, I was the one nominating people, as a joke, not to be the coolest or most beautiful, just in honour of some of the very smart, mentor-quality people on babble. Remember that my analogy was about achieveing enlightenment from the groupthink of today, and I nominated people accordingly. Nobody was really pouncing all over it, anyway. Personally, I'd love to be the kid with the spoon!

Hey, what was the name of the guy who created the girl in the red dress? I can't remember, but KBMediaBoy *might* be a good candidate for that part.

quote:
It would seem that those who used to be the bad guys are now the heros and those who stood for good are now wimps.

Like who? John Wayne? The shoot 'em up action hero seems to me to be a pretty consistent role in American cinema.
And The Matrix is best understood as a sci-fi influenced Kung Fu movie, anyway, I think. It was choreographed by that legendary kung fu movie choreographer, wasn't it, the same guy who did Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and now the remake of Iron Monkey?


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 12 October 2001 09:10 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Hey, what was the name of the guy who created the girl in the red dress? I can't remember, but KBMediaBoy *might* be a good candidate for that part.

That character was "The Mouse"


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 14 October 2001 02:15 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dr. C, what would I do without you.

From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 14 October 2001 02:48 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Get another pseudofelinoid economics guru to sit on your lap and purr?
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 14 October 2001 02:55 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Our resident feline WOULD remember "the mouse". I'd like to be the women in the red dress who morphs into an agent. That would be neat.

Except that would make me a figment of the imagination. Drag. I like being real.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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Babbler # 1365

posted 14 October 2001 03:10 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha ha ha, *drag*. You made a funny the woman - the agent - get it -

(she says, realizing that she is obviously becoming delusional from lack of sleep, yawns, puts out a little catnip for Dr. C, and goes to bed).


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 14 October 2001 03:14 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think I need some cat nip too - I don't think I get it.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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Babbler # 1365

posted 14 October 2001 03:29 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The agent is dressed in drag cuz *he* was the woman in the red dress..you said it would be a drag to be her..it's weak at best I know but as I said, I'm delusional from lakck of sleep.

(she says as she gives Michelle a little catnip too, and a cookie to make up for being confusing, and REALLY goes to bed this time).


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 14 October 2001 06:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. I get it now. I guess it was time for ME to go to bed, not you.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mark_Grieveson
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posted 26 November 2001 08:28 PM      Profile for Mark_Grieveson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Matrix was an enjoyable film. The coming back to life with a kiss scene was idiotic, though.
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
andrean
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Babbler # 361

posted 26 November 2001 11:43 PM      Profile for andrean     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Idiotic? Snow White, idiotic? Sleeping Beauty, idiotic? Heartless man, I'll read none of this libel!


From: etobicoke-lakeshore | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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