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Author Topic: Earning a Fine Arts degree the really, really disgusting way
Doug
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posted 17 April 2008 02:23 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This so beats the ROM bomb as worst-ever art project! Assuming she's not just making it up, which would be pretty neat.

quote:
The display of Schvarts' project will feature a large cube suspended from the ceiling of a room in the gallery of Green Hall. Schvarts will wrap hundreds of feet of plastic sheeting around this cube; lined between layers of the sheeting will be the blood from Schvarts' self-induced miscarriages mixed with Vaseline in order to prevent the blood from drying and to extend the blood throughout the plastic sheeting.

Schvarts will then project recorded videos onto the four sides of the cube. These videos, captured on a VHS camcorder, will show her experiencing miscarriages in her bathrooom tub, she said. Similar videos will be projected onto the walls of the room.



Eeeeewwww!


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Stephen Gordon
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posted 17 April 2008 02:38 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Derivative - it's been done before.
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Papal Bull
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posted 18 April 2008 09:43 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Likewise the cover art from Metallica's Load...A mixture of semen and cow's blood pressed between two pieces of glass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_%28album%29

[ 18 April 2008: Message edited by: Papal Bull ]


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martin dufresne
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posted 18 April 2008 09:48 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey guys, this really seems to be getting your goat, isn't it?
Since your pathetic analogies to rock music are less than convincing, why not tell us directly how angry you are at a woman not taking sperm and impregnation as respectfully as you feel she should?

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Papal Bull
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posted 18 April 2008 09:55 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Um, I was drawing comparisons to an album cover. Which utilized fertility imagery and blood in a similar fashion.

edit:: Also, how is the analogy between one piece of art and another 'pathetic'?

Your mother should've taught you that if you ain't got nuffink nice to say, you should just not say anything.

Don't be an ass to your fellow posters on your first post in a thread. Netiquette encourages you to wait until at least your second. Or is making a comparison to you and a bum a pathetic analogy too?

[ 18 April 2008: Message edited by: Papal Bull ]


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martin dufresne
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posted 18 April 2008 10:20 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Also, how is the analogy between one piece of art and another 'pathetic'?
When it's a piss-poor one, that misses the issues broached by the artist and belittles her courage. 'Fertility imagery' indeed...

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Papal Bull
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posted 18 April 2008 10:25 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
When it's a piss-poor one, that misses the issues broached by the artist and belittles her courage. 'Fertility imagery' indeed...

I didn't belittle her here. Show me where I did, if you can. I really don't see where I could've done that. I think that the first poster was expressing their understandable discomfort with this particular piece of art. I don't think that is anyway insulting. It is probably doing what the artist intended to do anyways. The whole art world is pretty crazy, anyhow, dudes masturbating beneath the stairs. Lots of whackiness goes on. I don't think it is wrong to be made uncomfortable by art that is probably designed to make you feel uncomfortable and question your conceptions...

Also, an inversion of fertility imagery is pretty common these days. Happens all the time. You want to see something that is uninverted? Look at paintings of apples and other seed bearing fruit or people eating seeds. Usually related to fertility.

Still, I'd love to see you and your militant and overbearing ways pick me apart here. Please, do it. You know, by posting something with something called "content". Try it. It isn't that hard.

edit:: also, justify how the analogy is piss poor. Put up or shut up.

[ 18 April 2008: Message edited by: Papal Bull ]


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pogge
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posted 18 April 2008 10:27 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The project is "creative fiction". In other words, it's a hoax.
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martin dufresne
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posted 18 April 2008 10:36 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They say you can lead a horse to water but...
Comparing Aliza Shvarts' awesome project - even as a hoax - to a Sex Pistols ambiguous song and a Metallica jerk-off cover shows a total lack of grasp of what is at stake, in terms of the issues and the challenge involved.
If you, Doug and Stephen Gordon don't see it, I really don't see what I could tell you that could change that.
Better yet, why not read Shvarts instead - about the ideological foundation of this project - instead of basing your comments on the sensationalist collage of judgmental/horrified reactions offered in the article hyperlinked above, which are clearly part of the author's design for this creative act:
Shvarts explains her 'repeated self-induced miscarriages'

[ 18 April 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


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Papal Bull
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posted 18 April 2008 11:08 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Um, Metallica chose a piece of art for their album. I was talking about that piece of art. You dense or something, boy?

"is the impossibility of accurately identifying the resulting blood. Because the miscarriages coincide with the expected date of menstruation (the 28th day of my cycle), it remains ambiguous whether the there was ever a fertilized ovum or not. The reality of the pregnancy, both for myself and for the audience, is a matter of reading."

-hmmmm, a matter of reading? Oh my!

"As an intervention into our normative understanding of .the real. and its accompanying politics of convention, this performance piece has numerous conceptual goals. The first is to assert that often, normative understandings of biological function are a mythology imposed on form. It is this mythology that creates the sexist, racist, ableist, nationalist and homophobic perspective, distinguishing what body parts are .meant. to do from their physical capability. The myth that a certain set of functions are .natural. (while all the other potential functions are .unnatural.) undermines that sense of capability, confining lifestyle choices to the bounds of normatively defined narratives."

-This discussion of normative roles and the imposition of past mythologies on modern reproductive issues seems to bolster a similarity between this piece of art and the other piece. Here, take a chance and try reading about the artist that made the piece that was chosen as Metallica's album cover...it utilizes bodily fluids and removes presuppositions as to their intended functions.

"Just as it is a myth that women are .meant. to be feminine and men masculine, that penises and vaginas are .meant. for penetrative heterosexual sex (or that mouths, anuses, breasts, feet or leather, silicone, vinyl, rubber, or metal implements are not .meant. for sex at all), it is a myth that ovaries and a uterus are .meant. to birth a child."
-Sort of like how blood is meant to pump life and semen meant to be used as a reproductive fluid. When they're mixed they are something else. Heh.

in summation. You've been unable to disprove anything I've said and made broad accusations against myself.


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Ibelongtonoone
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posted 18 April 2008 11:13 AM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
martin says

quote:
her courage

LOL!

whatever. You know as much about art as you do the thoughts and feelings of the average person it seems.

This type "art" which is really just a lame attempt to get attention is actually quite easy.

Here's a quick example

1 Get a big empty room in a art gallery

2 Pick a controversial subject - religion, holocaust, slavery, ect.

3 Throw in a strange pop culture angle

4 Take yrself and yr "art" very seriously


Behind a chain link fence have several african american men dressed in striped death camp uinforms, while an Evis impersonater dressed in a McDonalds uniform beats them while singing hound dog with a german accent.

Actually that sounds even better than hers but it takes no skill and is art in the same sense that spam is food.


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martin dufresne
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posted 18 April 2008 11:21 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't hold a candle to you folks when it comes to ridiculing your reactionary selves, so I won't even try.
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kropotkin1951
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posted 18 April 2008 11:28 AM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
Hey guys, this really seems to be getting your goat, isn't it?
Since your pathetic analogies to rock music are less than convincing, why not tell us directly how angry you are at a woman not taking sperm and impregnation as respectfully as you feel she should?


Andres Serrano

Now if I wanted to be provocative I would ask you why you don't think a POC should be considered an artist? Not white enough for you to see his art as art.

What I don't get is the piece itself. It seems to be an anti-abortion piece if anything right up there with pictures of fetuses.


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Ibelongtonoone
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posted 18 April 2008 11:31 AM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
how about a dog dressed as jesus walking on a treadmill hooked to a yolk that makes a machine stamp out George Bush cookies made of human feces.

How radical and avant-garde.


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kropotkin1951
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posted 18 April 2008 11:36 AM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I much prefer Andres art to the vile suggestions being proffered by some.

Real Art

I quite like Piss Christ and Black Jesus.

Martin you have jumped into something without checking on your facts.


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Polly Brandybuck
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posted 18 April 2008 11:37 AM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
She said she was not concerned about any medical effects the forced miscarriages may have had on her body. The abortifacient drugs she took were legal and herbal, she said, and she did not feel the need to consult a doctor about her repeated miscarriages.

I realize that her art project has been proven fictitious, but did she really expect anyone to buy this?? If there was a safe and legal and reliable and organic abortion drug out there, how cool would that be? Hopefully no-one takes this nitwit seriously and expects a herbal concoction to work.

[ 18 April 2008: Message edited by: Polly Brandybuck ]


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Ibelongtonoone
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posted 18 April 2008 11:49 AM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She got what she wanted - attention! I don't much care what her

The real great artists of the future are toiling away in obscurity perfecting their skills and trying to make art that will be relevant to people a 1000 yrs in the future.

My examples of controversial "art" were crass and stupid on purpose.


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Scout
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posted 18 April 2008 12:06 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I realize that her art project has been proven fictitious, but did she really expect anyone to buy this??

But people did buy it. Pro-lifers went apeshit about it, it was all over the blogosphere.

I think as a social experiment it worked beautifully.

What disturbs me is this thread is dominated by men, then again I should be used to it by now the men always have plenty to say about abortion.


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kropotkin1951
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posted 18 April 2008 12:13 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:

But people did buy it. Pro-lifers went apeshit about it, it was all over the blogosphere.

I think as a social experiment it worked beautifully.

What disturbs me is this thread is dominated by men, then again I should be used to it by now the men always have plenty to say about abortion.


Gee men in the culture forum mea culpa for posting.

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Scout
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posted 18 April 2008 12:20 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is there some where you aren't allowed to post?

Or are you saying that outside of the FF I should have to tolerate male domination and ignorance when discussing an issue dealing directly with abortion?


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pogge
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posted 18 April 2008 12:29 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:
What disturbs me is this thread is dominated by men...

Should I have done a head count before I posted?


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kropotkin1951
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posted 18 April 2008 12:33 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:
Is there some where you aren't allowed to post?

No

quote:
Or are you saying that outside of the FF I should have to tolerate male domination and ignorance when discussing an issue dealing directly with abortion?
No you should not have to tolerate anything you don't want to.

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Scout
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posted 18 April 2008 12:46 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Should I have kept my mouth shut or something Pogge?

Am I wrong? Did I get the head count wrong?

The OP is by a man, the thread title is offensive and mostly men are debating if abortions can be art, apparently animal sperm can be or a punk song about abortion sung by men but an abortion is just really, really disgusting.


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Ibelongtonoone
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posted 18 April 2008 12:49 PM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't think the political nature of the idea was very clear and I wasn't attacking it based on her being a woman or my being a man.

Actually that fact it was a hoax gives me reason to raise my estimation of her as an artist slightly as it reminds me of Warhol and his film "Sleep". He said the idea of it was more important than the actual film - most people who reacted had never seen it. "what an 8 hour movie of a guy sleeping!" He loved it, but I still feel most shock art is boring.


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Scout
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posted 18 April 2008 12:57 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I didn't think the political nature of the idea was very clear

Broadcasting in the US of A that you got pregnant multiple times just to have an abortion over a 9 Month period isn't clearly political to you?

This is why I am rankled, abortion is undeniably political and frankly the dismissive male attitudes are not a surprise to me.


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Doug
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posted 18 April 2008 12:59 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
They say you can lead a horse to water but...
Comparing Aliza Shvarts' awesome project - even as a hoax - to a Sex Pistols ambiguous song and a Metallica jerk-off cover shows a total lack of grasp of what is at stake, in terms of the issues and the challenge involved.

I thought it was an awesome project too - but still really gross. It's like someone deciding to put their own liver on display. Yes, it presumably has an artistic point, but...eeewww!


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pogge
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posted 18 April 2008 01:03 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:
Should I have kept my mouth shut or something Pogge?

Know what? I'm not going to debate it with you. I'll add Culture to the list of forums I stay out of and abortion to the list of topics I never discuss here.


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Ibelongtonoone
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posted 18 April 2008 01:11 PM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Scout I think you misundstand me, yes she poked a stick in the hornets nest of the easily angered self appointed morality squad.

But what does it say about abortion?


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Polly Brandybuck
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posted 18 April 2008 01:23 PM      Profile for Polly Brandybuck     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:

But people did buy it. Pro-lifers went apeshit about it, it was all over the blogosphere.

I think as a social experiment it worked beautifully.


I wasn't talking about the social experiment. I was hoping no-one bought the multiple abortions using safe legal easily obtainable herbs and not seeing a doctor part.


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Doug
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posted 18 April 2008 02:47 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:

The OP is by a man, the thread title is offensive and mostly men are debating if abortions can be art

Apologies for being a man. It just sort of happened.

I never said they couldn't be art any less than someone could use a gallbladder they'd had removed in an art piece. I also don't see how the thread title is offensive. It is a disgusting project, and I don't mean that in the sense of something worthy of moral censure, I mean it in the sense of producing nausea.

[ 18 April 2008: Message edited by: Doug ]


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Papal Bull
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posted 18 April 2008 03:18 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scout:
Should I have kept my mouth shut or something Pogge?

Am I wrong? Did I get the head count wrong?

The OP is by a man, the thread title is offensive and mostly men are debating if abortions can be art, apparently animal sperm can be or a punk song about abortion sung by men but an abortion is just really, really disgusting.


Scout, where did I say anything about the merits of this art? I just made a comparison to another piece of art.


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Scout
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posted 18 April 2008 05:49 PM      Profile for Scout     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Fine. I give.
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Cueball
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posted 18 April 2008 06:12 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'd say that the artist is about 33 posts further along in making her point.
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al-Qa'bong
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posted 18 April 2008 09:24 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know much about art, but I'm not always sure what I like either.
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Cueball
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posted 18 April 2008 09:28 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is no accounting for bad taste, as I always say.
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