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Author Topic: Alberta: Genesis in the classroom concerns educator
Snuckles
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posted 03 May 2007 03:41 PM      Profile for Snuckles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And by 'Genesis in the classroom' they don't mean Phil Collins coming to school to teach the kids

quote:
Last Updated: Thursday, May 3, 2007 | 3:03 PM MT
CBC News

An education professor at the University of Calgary is concerned that religion is being taught in a handful of Alberta public schools.

Cochrane's Mitford Middle School will launch a Christian program this fall. Christian beliefs, including instruction on creationism in science class, will be taught to 50 or so elementary aged students as part of a two-year pilot project.

But Darren Lund, who teaches in the university's education faculty, said religion doesn't belong in a publicly funded school system.

"I certainly think parents have the choice to opt out of an inclusive public system, but they should pay for that schooling themselves," he said.

"If they want their children to be in an exclusive, religious school, segregated by religion, then I think that's where parents have to put up the money for that."

Dividing children by religion limits the diversity and inclusion in the public school system, he added.
Creationism in science class

Many of the program's students will be children who had been home schooled.

Bill Bell, Mitford's principal, said Christian beliefs will be woven through every subject in the new Christian program. Creationism will be taught in science class, he added. "The first teaching will be from a Christian point of view and then there will be an acknowledgement that there is another theory."

Kathy Telfer, a spokeswoman with Alberta Education, said creationism can play a role in Alberta classrooms. "It can be explored and discussed, but we need to focus around our curriculum."


Read it here.


From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 03 May 2007 04:16 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Bill Bell, Mitford's principal, said Christian beliefs will be woven through every subject in the new Christian program. Creationism will be taught in science class, he added. "The first teaching will be from a Christian point of view and then there will be an acknowledgement that there is another theory."

Fire the lying bastard. These so-called "scientific Creationists" are a bunch of fraudulent democracy-haters pushing religious folklore and symbolism as scientific fact in order to suppress the scientific method of research and proof, since that is a fundamental historic part of freedom of thought--something the religious right has always violently tried to suppress.

Looks like they are getting their way again, and brainwashing kids into being mindless unquestioning automatons to undemocratic corporate authority.

What’s next? The flat-earth theory? People are black because God cursed them? Capitalism is a holy system brought down to us from the heavens?

Fuck these criminals—straight out of the feudal dark ages.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 03 May 2007 04:16 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We should trebuchet those people back across the border to jesusland where they belong.
From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 03 May 2007 04:46 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hopefully the Albertans who regularly show up here to complain about being depicted as rednecks are busy writing protest letters to their MPPs about how irrational superstitions are being imposed upon their children.
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 03 May 2007 05:36 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why would this depict us as rednecks?

There is a separate program already there for aboriginal students. Why can't there be a program for christians?

ETA:

We don't have MPP's.

[ 03 May 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Steppenwolf Allende
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posted 03 May 2007 05:52 PM      Profile for Steppenwolf Allende     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Why would this depict us as rednecks?

If you need to ask that question, the answer becomes obvious.

quote:
There is a separate program already there for aboriginal students. Why can't there be a program for christians?

Any program that teaches religious folklore and symbolism as scientific fact is dishonest and misleading, regardless of who it's intended for.

Maybe you would rather write letters of protest to the Alberta government demanding a special program for rednecks.


From: goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 03 May 2007 09:45 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
Why would this depict us as rednecks?

There is a separate program already there for aboriginal students. Why can't there be a program for christians?


Are you really equating the preservation of the culture of first nations (victims of a cultural, if not an attempted total genocide) with the desire of the "christian" right to indoctrinate their own young 24/7, and proselytize their beliefs to all others?

It seems I didn't have to do any depicting in your case.


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viigan
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posted 05 May 2007 08:11 PM      Profile for viigan     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know why teachers still harp on creationism. Then again, I don't know why they teach at all as the overwhelming majority do not hold degrees in any of the disciplines they lecture on.
From: here | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Croghan27
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posted 05 May 2007 09:55 PM      Profile for Croghan27     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by viigan:
I don't know why teachers still harp on creationism. Then again, I don't know why they teach at all as the overwhelming majority do not hold degrees in any of the disciplines they lecture on.

Isn't a degree evidence of advanced study in a subject/discpline?

Theydo have degrees in education, as in teachiung methods and such, and a degree in another field - A BA in history, english etc. or a specialization in some area.

I am not specifically sure about Alberta legislation, but the teachers I knew there all had degrees.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
viigan
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posted 06 May 2007 09:09 AM      Profile for viigan     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Croghan, that's the way it used to be and there are still teachers out there who possess degrees in education and a chosen field, but they are no longer required to do so. The base requirement is a degree in Education. Most young teachers I work with (in Quebec) only have a degree in Education but are required to teach whatever disciplines there is need in at a particular school.
From: here | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Croghan27
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posted 06 May 2007 09:50 AM      Profile for Croghan27     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by viigan:
Croghan, that's the way it used to be and there are still teachers out there who possess degrees in education and a chosen field, but they are no longer required to do so. The base requirement is a degree in Education. Most young teachers I work with (in Quebec) only have a degree in Education but are required to teach whatever disciplines there is need in at a particular school.

Holy Crude Oil, viigan-man:

I never bothered to get my licence while in Alberta, even if I am certified in two other Provinces - in both of them you could not even get into a B.Ed. course without having some kind of undergraduate degree.

I guess poor Ralph klein could not hand handle all those people able to spell meterioil ...metorolo.....meterlogi .... weatherman while he could not.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 06 May 2007 11:35 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:Are you really equating the preservation of the culture of first nations (victims of a cultural, if not an attempted total genocide) with the desire of the "christian" right to indoctrinate their own young 24/7, and proselytize their beliefs to all others?

It seems I didn't have to do any depicting in your case.


Yes, you are quite correct.

And apparently A Beka, is one of the biggest "Christian" publishing houses, for "Christian" textbooks in the world.

One text book of theirs on world history; "blames the poverty and politcal chaos in most of Africa on lack of faith. It skips over the repressive colonial European regimes that exploited the continent and decimated the population in countries such as the Congo, explaining: pg 153 American Fascism - Chris Hedges.

For over a thousand years, there was no clear Christian witness in the vast heartland of Africa; the fear, idolatry, superstition and witchcraft associated with animism (the belief that natural objects and forces are inhabited by mostly malignant spirits) prevented most Africans from learning how to use nature for man's benefit and thus develop high culture like that of other African empire's"1.

Nice lies they teach eh? Oh yes, let's have this as part of the public school system, or indeed any school system.

Another example Hedges denotes on the same page regarding A Beka text book teaching:

Hinduism is described as "devasting to India's history.2" Hindus are "incapable of writing history"3 [because] all that happens is disspated in their minds into confused dreams. What we call historical truth and veracity--intelligent comprehension of events, and fidelity in representing them--nothing of this sort can be looked for among the Hindus.

If I belonged to an ethnic minority in AB, or indeed Canada, I would get my hands on the texts they are using, and if they contain lies and negative hate inducing stereotypes such as that above, I would launch court actions against them.

The "Christian" textbooks those quotes are from:

1. Combee, "History of the World in Christian perspective" - pg 86

2. Hicks, "Old World History and Geography" - pg 47.

3. Combee, "History of the World", pg 279.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 06 May 2007 07:21 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aldia, here is an thread you should read, perhaps you could pick up some truth about the fundamentalists you so erroneous and rigoursly are defending.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
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posted 06 May 2007 07:50 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
...There is a separate program already there for aboriginal students. Why can't there be a program for christians?...

Did you miss this, Heywood?
quote:
...Creationism will be taught in science class, he added...

In other words, they want to keep their children ignorant of honest thought and gullible to conmen, fascists and preachers of hate.

Creationism is not a science; anyone who wants to teach it as science is dishonest and/or deluded.

ETA to clarify: Creationism is not a Christian doctrine; most Christians are not creationists or fundamentalists.

Darren Lund must be a glutton for punishment; he is already being attacked by homophobes because he filed a human rights complaint against Stephen Boissoin who was chairman for the Concerned Christian Coalition; Boissoin wrote a homophobic letter to the Red Deer Advocate. Read all about it here.

Of course the homophobes already sending him hate mail are probably mostly the same people who want to teach creationism as a science.

[ 06 May 2007: Message edited by: Contrarian ]

[ 07 May 2007: Message edited by: Contrarian ]


From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boarsbreath
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posted 10 May 2007 02:55 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I should think we, at least, can take it as read that teaching creationism in a public-school science class is a Bad Thing.

The issue isn't that. It's what we or anyone can and should do about it, no?

(Hint: Alberta-bashing just makes it a badge of identity and will backfire.)


From: South Seas, ex Montreal | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 10 May 2007 03:12 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boarsbreath:
(Hint: Alberta-bashing just makes it a badge of identity and will backfire.)[/QB]
Bullshit.

Why is any discussion of Alberta always construed as 'bashing'?


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 10 May 2007 03:49 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Contrarian:
In other words, they want to keep their children ignorant of honest thought and gullible to conmen, fascists and preachers of hate.

Creationism is not a science; anyone who wants to teach it as science is dishonest and/or deluded.

ETA to clarify: Creationism is not a Christian doctrine; most Christians are not creationists or fundamentalists.


Then why are the majority allowing the minority to dictate having "creationism" in a public school?


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 26 May 2007 03:39 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry for the drift, couldn't find another thread for this:

Dinosaurs on ark, Ky. museum claims

excerpt:

A Gallup poll last year showed almost half of Americans believe that humans did not evolve but were created by God in their present form within the last 10,000 years.

Three of 10 Republican presidential candidates said in a recent debate that they did not believe in evolution.


From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 29 May 2007 02:50 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Field trip to the museum in creationism class!

quote:
Creationism museum to open in Alberta
Last Updated: Tuesday, May 29, 2007

CBC News

Canada's first permanent museum dedicated to creationism opens its doors next Tuesday in rural Alberta.

The Big Valley Creation Science Museum, located in a village northeast of Calgary, sets out to show that the earth was created by God in six days about 6,000 years ago.

"Basically, we are pointing out that scientifically speaking, there is a lot of good evidence putting to a supernatural creation," said Ian Juby, a consultant to the museum.

The small museum, which cost $300,000 to build, is filled with displays of fossils and model DNA strands meant to support a literal interpretation of the Bible.

............



From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bobolink
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posted 30 May 2007 08:06 AM      Profile for Bobolink   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Answers to Creationist Nonsense: Scientific American.com

5 years old but still the best article that I have read on the subject.

[ 30 May 2007: Message edited by: Bobolink ]

[ 30 May 2007: Message edited by: Bobolink ]


From: Stirling, ON | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 30 May 2007 08:15 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by viigan:
I don't know why teachers still harp on creationism. Then again, I don't know why they teach at all as the overwhelming majority do not hold degrees in any of the disciplines they lecture on.

The ability to teach is a gift. It is not conferred by a degree. No one really remembers the "data" delivered to them in school. No one really forgets an inspiring educator.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 30 May 2007 08:42 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bobolink:
Answers to Creationist Nonsense: Scientific American.com

5 years old but still the best article that I have read on the subject.



Excellent article, thank you. I needed something like this as my mother in law informed me yesterday she has lost her mind and now believes only in creationism. They brought a fellow to explain it to them in church and it all makes sense now and she was never comfortable with the "theory" of evolution anyway, she said.

I simply told her she was part of the anti-Christ movement now.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 30 May 2007 09:08 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm sure that went over well!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 30 May 2007 09:27 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I'm sure that went over well!

Well, she paused and said: "perhaps we shouldn't talk about this then".

I said: "perhaps you should read The Bible then, you are smart enough to see the inconsist and contradictory things it contains and do you really think that the dinosaur tooth sitting on the bookcase over there, that your dad- the anthropologist- dug up, is from 6000 years ago only?"

She never had a religious bone in her body, and has never even picked up The Bible in her life to read it. This all started a couple of years ago when she married her 4th husband, a Pentacostal fellow from northern AB.

Personally, I think it is multi-level marketing personality types that suck into this fundamentalist indoctrination. It seems every Pentacostal/Evangelical I have ever met has at one time been a part the mutli-level marketing scams.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
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posted 30 May 2007 10:05 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:

excerpt:

A Gallup poll last year showed almost half of Americans believe that humans did not evolve but were created by God in their present form within the last 10,000 years.

Three of 10 Republican presidential candidates said in a recent debate that they did not believe in evolution.


Kill me now.

Does a movement exist within Canada that aims to prevent religious teachings from entering science curriculums? I think we might have hit the point where we need one.

Remind, I know you're on my side here, but saying stuff like "you're part of the anti-christ movement" will just compell your mother-in-law to ignore your well-constructed arguments for the theory of evolution.

[ 30 May 2007: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
John K
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posted 30 May 2007 02:55 PM      Profile for John K        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Bill Bell, Mitford's principal, said Christian beliefs will be woven through every subject in the new Christian program. Creationism will be taught in science class, he added. "The first teaching will be from a Christian point of view and then there will be an acknowledgement that there is another theory."

There is an assumption in Principal Bell's statement that "creationism" is appropriately taught in a science class. It is not because - as other babblers have pointed out - creationism is not science but rather based on religious belief.

If the CBC report accurately reflects the proposed content of science cirricula, this particular alternative program has no place in a public school.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
laine lowe
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posted 30 May 2007 08:46 PM      Profile for laine lowe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by remind:

She never had a religious bone in her body, and has never even picked up The Bible in her life to read it. This all started a couple of years ago when she married her 4th husband, a Pentacostal fellow from northern AB.

Personally, I think it is multi-level marketing personality types that suck into this fundamentalist indoctrination. It seems every Pentacostal/Evangelical I have ever met has at one time been a part the mutli-level marketing scams.


I feel for you and I'm glad to see that I am not alone in seeing that many who fall for this creationism crap are often taken in by pyramid sales. I don't know how to articulate it but it seems that there is some kind of suseptability that is manipulated by both fundie preachers and Amway sales people (and whatever other one out there like Mary Kay and Herbalife).

I have to say that the thought of "intelligent design" or creationism being given so much credence in Alberta is depressing. It really is difficult to see the pendulum swing so backwards. There were enough obstacles to overcome in our struggle to improve society and now we seem increasingly faced with challenging what was considered archaic thinking in the past many decades.


From: north of 50 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 30 May 2007 09:32 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by laine lowe:
...I'm glad to see that I am not alone in seeing that many who fall for this creationism crap are often taken in by pyramid sales.

Me too actually, have been holding that observation back, as I thought perhaps I was the only one who noticed.

quote:
It really is difficult to see the pendulum swing so backwards. There were enough obstacles to overcome in our struggle to improve society and now we seem increasingly faced with challenging what was considered archaic thinking in the past many decades.

I prefer to look at it like their last kick of the can, before the majority of the people of the world get really sick and fed up with then mechanations of the elite, supported by the mentally weak.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 June 2007 02:53 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, there definitely is a connection between religion and MLM crap. Beyond the obvious similarity between believing something unbelievable on faith (You're going to strike it rich! Some big guy in the sky sitting on a cloud is making a list and checking it twice!), some MLM schemes like Amway actually use religion as a mom-and-apple-pie value to follow, in order to keep their recruits in line.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sven
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posted 02 June 2007 04:20 AM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by laine lowe:
I don't know how to articulate it but...

Lemme try: They are morons.

Doesn't Canada have a "separation of church and state" clause in its founding charter? Our constitution does and we still have these stupid debates about whether "intelligent design" should be taught in public schools.

I'll have to say this about "I.D.": It's a pretty cunning idea. It's packaged with the merest whiff of legitimacy that the morons of the world consider it to be science.


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
curry
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posted 02 June 2007 05:37 AM      Profile for curry     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodFloyd:
Why would this depict us as rednecks?

There is a separate program already there for aboriginal students. Why can't there be a program for christians?

ETA:

We don't have MPP's.

[ 03 May 2007: Message edited by: HeywoodFloyd ]


Is the program for aboriginal students taught throughout the education program? Does the science class teach all the aboriginal beliefs of the creation of the world? Unless all students are taught this you have answered your own question.


From: victoria | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
viigan
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posted 04 June 2007 07:58 AM      Profile for viigan     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've been teaching in Montreal high schools for two years and although I haven't encountered the fearful spectre of creationism, I've been consistently exposed to teenagers that can't write a paragrapgh, spell, locate three continents on a map, and a History curriculum that is not only biased but utter bullshit as well. I fail to see how teaching creationism is more dangerous than an ignorant population.

I'm just wondering why concern is only expressed at the prospect of religion in schools when it has always really been ignorance that has been the root of most of our travails. The Crusades might have used religious sentiment as a selling point but it was the ignorant European populations that submitted to the Vatican intellectuals who lined their coffers with gold from around the world.
So Unionist, I don't give a shit how talented a teacher might be as an educator if he or she is skimming the information they try to impart on their students from a Coles notes version of World History a week before classes begin and they're told that along with Music and Drama, they now have to teach History and English as well.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: viigan ]


From: here | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
trippie
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posted 04 June 2007 10:08 PM      Profile for trippie        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Two things here that all the poster have over looked....

first this....

quote:
"The first teaching will be from a Christian point of view and then there will be an acknowledgement that there is another theory."

Creationsim is not a theory. Theories are backed up with physical evidence. There is no physical evidence of creationism.

Secondly...

There is a corrilation between the advancement of capitalism and the need for the exploited to look for a way out of their bondiage.

Over the last century, the capitalists in the USA , have done everything they could to miss inform the proletariat about socialism.

In their confusion, our comrades have been mislead . There was, and is, a void and the religous bigots have filled it.

Instead of socialists teaching the proletariat about matrialism and Marxism , they have been capitulating to the ruing elite instead.

With their support of the Democat party, the confusion about Stalinism and the elimination of militancy in the Unions. The wrokers have seen their social standing decline...

And they have been looking for an answer to it all...

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: trippie ]


From: essex county | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ursa Minor
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posted 07 June 2007 09:16 AM      Profile for Ursa Minor     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by trippie:
Creationsim is not a theory. Theories are backed up with physical evidence. There is no physical evidence of creationism.

[ 04 June 2007: Message edited by: trippie ]


Creationsim is a theory, but the term 'theory' is pretty useless to the scientific method, given that 'theory' is also used in disciplines like art and philosophy.

The more accurate term for evolution would be a 'hypothesis' because the scientific community is out there trying to prove it, and is prepared to accept that the total proof gathered may prove the hypothesis wrong.

A theory, OTOH, can just sit around and wait for selected facts to make itself plausible.


From: Vancouver, British Columbia | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged

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