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Author Topic: Are Wrestling fans stupid ?
CoolGal
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posted 21 December 2004 10:04 PM      Profile for CoolGal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Millions are watching and following this soap opera everyday.Is it possible that MILLIONS upon Millions of ticket buyers be this gullible
From: Halifax | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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posted 21 December 2004 10:08 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes.


...well, I guess that clears that up. Happy holidays!


From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
steffie
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posted 22 December 2004 12:14 AM      Profile for steffie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hypermasculinity strikes again!
From: What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow / Out of this stony rubbish? | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 29 December 2004 06:52 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Devil's Advocate here.

I don't think anyone "believes" wrestling. And I think it's correct to describe it as a soap opera.

A very bad soap opera.

But there is an art here, there is athleticism. It's not apparent when you catch it surfing by. It becomes apparent if you happen to stumble upon an exhibition of bad wrestling where wrestlers miss thier marks. Then there is an appreciation of "good" wrestling, as a stunt exhibition.

A friend of mine watches wrestling, and brings tapes into work for us to watch at break and lunch. I usually walk away when the wrestlers grab the microphone and start to talk. The story lines vary from the rediculous to the excrutiatingly embrarassing.

But when I see the stadium go dark, and the fog machine fires up, and the Church Bell rings, you know....you know my ass is in front of that television to see The Undertaker take the slow walk out, roll his eyes into the back of his head and choke slam that other wrestler you just can't stand.


But no. I don't watch or anything.


And even if I did, it's not the worst crap on television.

Sue me.

Oh, are wrestling fans stupid? I don't think so. If you consider me a fan (I don't consider myself a fan) then there's people who DO consider me stupid. And there's people who consider me smart. There must be, statistically. Somewhere.

Is there anyone who's every waking moment is spent elevating their intellect? Is there a person who never indulges some guilty pleasure?

Answer true. Don't make me get my fog machine out.....

[ 29 December 2004: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Melsky
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posted 29 December 2004 07:32 PM      Profile for Melsky   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think a majority of wrestling fans know that it's fake, but I bet a lot of them don't.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 29 December 2004 07:51 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's all about catharsis. The characters are stereotypes, cartoonish, it's a ballet of good vs bad, like most of our entertainment.
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 29 December 2004 09:00 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wrestling goes hand in hand with George Bush's America. We're in for a miserable four more years, folks.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 29 December 2004 09:25 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Stupid like a fox!!


[ 10 March 2005: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]

[ 10 March 2005: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 29 December 2004 09:43 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wrestling is no more fake than Olympic figure skating or Gymnastics. They are all highly athletic, and completely bogus as competitions.

Wrestling is well aware of its role, which is why the biggest operation has the word "entertainment" in its name. The fans too, for the most part, are aware of the score. No one over the age of 9 actually believes this stuff. But like there are people who think there is a real Victor Newman (Days of Our Lives), there are those idiots who don't grasp the concept. But if you look at wrestling fan sites or BBs, you'll see that the fans are taking it for what it is; pure entertainment, live, athletic, and fun. I'd have to say wrestling fans are no more or less stupid than your average Celine Dion fan, or Survivor fan, or Toronto Maple Leafs fan.

Think of wrestling as Mullet Opera, with epic battles, good versus evil, damsels in distress (in bra and panty matches), and deus ex machina gods with steel chairs. Just like Die Fledermaus.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 30 December 2004 01:51 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pro wrestling has definitely become really soap-opera-ish in the last few years. I watched some WWF tapes and DVDs recently and I had to giggle at some of the over-the-top antics of the wrestlers in the ring, never mind out of it.

But for all that, it's fun to watch if you know it's all fake. (and some of the wrestlers are breathtakingly sexy. See above. )


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 30 December 2004 02:12 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Figured you'd like that one Doc.
From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 30 December 2004 03:32 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pardon wHoOo ? Pardon you?. Well if I-EEEvvver heard such a thing in my life, this is it. I know all you ladies just wanna "git" with FidelalalaLA!!! But this is going too far.

If ya smelllalalalalalalala what Fidel... is cookun....

ha ha


From: Viva La Revolucin | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
kingblake
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posted 30 December 2004 03:40 AM      Profile for kingblake     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I didn't even know there were arm wrestling fans. Oh. I mean.... yes. Yes they are. Very.
From: In Regina, the land of Exotica | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 30 December 2004 10:26 AM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Back when I was a kid I loved seeing the Undertaker "rise from the urn" and all the good stuff. Heck, I remember when the WWF came back through Oshawa.

Nowadays, I've outgrown it. Everything became TOO fake and the storylines anger me as there isn't enough fighting for the championship belt anymore. MARRIAGE MATCH, WHAT IN THE NAME OF GOD IS THAT!? A MARRIAGE MATCH!


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 30 December 2004 12:21 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yay Oshawa!
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
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posted 30 December 2004 01:06 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Years ago someone on the Gzowski show (which my mother always had on full blast so she could here it wherever she was in the house), said they enjoyed wrestling because it was hard to find such good theatre. So I started watching wrestling (All Star hosted by Ron Morier). And it was good theatre (featuring a very young Jesse Ventura).

The latest incarnation which I recently watched is terrible acting although the wrestlers are considerably more buff than Gene Kiniski


From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 30 December 2004 01:14 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I miss the old days with the 'sheik' and sweet daddy sikh with my dad

I still have a fondness for wrestling because of many happy hours spent with my dad as i read comics and he read wrestling mags or he watched wrestling with me on tv when I was 7-9


From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
RealityStick
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posted 31 December 2004 01:38 PM      Profile for RealityStick   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used to watch the old Stampede Wrestling ("Good evening, culture vultures!") on TV years ago. After I moved to Calgary I actually went to see the "spectacle" fairly regularly (I was actually there when Davey-boy Smith made his Calgary debut...and he was a skinny little runt compared to what he looks like now. You can draw your own conclusions...). When you watch on TV it's easy to remain somewhat detached from it all, but when you see it live in the arena, you fall into the spirit of the whole thing (there's a really wierd energy that comes from a wrestling crowd that's quite different from what you get from a hockey or football crowd).

The current incarnation (ie. the WWE) does nothing for me, as it's just a bit too much of an over-the-top (rope) money machine...

btw, thanks for that picture, JimmyB. It replaced two cups o' coffee this morning!

RS


From: the last lonely refuge | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
bear604/778
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posted 07 January 2005 04:02 PM      Profile for bear604/778   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In his book, "Impro" Theatresports creator and former University of Calgary drama professor Keith Johnstone described professional wrestling as the ultimate form of theatre.
From: East Vancouver | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 07 January 2005 04:16 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Twice in my life twice! I've been given tickets to see the WWF. Once at Copps, and once at MLG.

You really need to be there. If you think it's a spectacle on that little box in your living room, try being cheek by jowl with the various Cletuses in their WWF bandanas with their WWF foam fingers and their giant box of cheezy nachos spilling on their lap as they scream obscenities at the latest heel. It's a hoot. You won't know whether to watch the wrestlers, or go play Jane Goodall with the fans.


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
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posted 07 January 2005 05:33 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was brought to the edge of financial ruin by betting on wrestling.

[ 07 January 2005: Message edited by: Tommy Shanks ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
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posted 07 January 2005 05:35 PM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wrestling fans aren't stupid---it's just that intelligent people who are wrestling fans tend to keep their interest to themselves!
I have loved wrestling since I was a kid & still like it to this day, although the WWE product hasn't interested me much in the last year or so. In fact until recently I was a subscriber to a weekly 'insider' newsletter, "The Figure-Four Weekly".
Wrestling at it's best is magnificent improvisational theatre. It cannot be judged as an athletic competition. It can not however be called 'fake'---yes, the results are predetermined, but the athleticism and hard-hitting are very real. Wrestlers often perform with injuries that would keep other athletes on the injured list for extended periods.
This is not to say I don't have criticisms--- I have plenty & in my view Vince McMahon has a lot to answer for for his monopolistic labour practices and for many of his storylines, which often are sexist and racist.

BTW, I also remember Stampede Wrestling with Davey Boy Smith and a a young English lad known as the "Dynamite Kid". Sadly, Davey Boy left us a couple of years ago, a victim of his excesses. Dynamite Kid, who revolutionized wrestling and influenced many of today's stars, in his mid-forties is confined to a wheelchair, a result of his many back injuries and possibly his steroid abuse.


From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
WingNut
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posted 07 January 2005 06:08 PM      Profile for WingNut   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Millions are watching and following this soap opera everyday

Well that would go for traditional soap operas also wouldn't it? I mean, I could go into more detail into how such viewing rots the brain and primes viewers to become willing pawns in their own consumerist driven demise, but I have just discovered that my evil twin, Pecan, who died 20 years ago in a suspicious hunting accident isn't reallly dead at all and I am him. And my daughter is really my sister who is married to my dead cross-dressing cousin, Almond, who has been plotting my murder for years to take over the Planters Peanut company, only, only now he will discover all thsi tinme he has been trying to kill Pecan, his secret lover and father of Peanut, his love child ... [Turn back to camera; pour drink]

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Critical Mass
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posted 07 January 2005 06:22 PM      Profile for Critical Mass        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mr. Magoo:

quote:
go play Jane Goodall with the fans

Almost pissed myself laughing. Always a guilty pleasure reading you.

But for pure enjoyment, has anyone ever watched the wrestling shows on any of the Spanish cable channels from Latin America? Beats Jerry Springer.


From: King & Bay (downtown Toronto) - I am King of the World!!! | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
YPK
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posted 07 January 2005 06:37 PM      Profile for YPK     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of my best friends a number of years ago was a professional wrestler (meaning he got paid for his schtick). He was (is) a wonderful, gentle man. When I asked him about the obvious fakery involved, he said, "You watch a movie or read a book and it's not real, right?" In other words, no real difference, just a matter of taste. Except for teasing, I never seriously brought the subject up again.
From: GTA | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 07 January 2005 07:40 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh. Well, one thing's for real - you have a 300 lb guy slam you into the ground and see how unreal that is.

P.S. When I was a kid, my dad and I used to do some father-daughter bonding over wrestling. When they came to Kingston, to the Memorial Centre, we went. Saw Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, and a few others. I don't remember whether Jesse "The Body" Ventura was there, though.

So, in answer to this thread title...well...I don't watch it anymore... but I have a few other guilty "lowbrow" pleasures, though, so no MENSA membership for me, I guess.

[ 07 January 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gayle
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posted 14 January 2005 10:46 PM      Profile for Gayle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used to watch all the time as a kid. I would still tune in randomly if there was nothing else on and I came across it, or if a boyfriend was watching.

However, I lost all patience for it when the stunts escalated to the point where a person died trying to out-stunt everyone else. You know it's too crazy when.


From: Cape Breton, Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 10 March 2005 01:21 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Been meaning to post this for a while now.

I can generally tolerate about 30 minutes of professional wrestling (in isolated 5-10 minute doses) a year. Then, the stupidity and monotony gets to me.

I used to be amused by stories told by friends who watched it more regularly, who'd fill in the storylines for me. (Like when "The Millionaire" Ted Dibiasi was secretly buying presents to all the lady-friends of his enemies, stupid/silly stuff like that.)

But I hate it now. Can't abide by it.

There was this rather large guy, a regular chump who'd get beaten by the superstars. Kind of came off as an incompetent "good-guy" wrestler.

Anyway, I'm flicking through channels, and he's on the screen, being booed, and shouting: "I'm an American!" So, intrigued, I stopped to listen. (This was in the early days of the invasion of Iraq ... [it might've been Afghanistan, but i'm pretty sure it was Iraq] ... )

He continued, "And [as an American], I have a right to speak my mind. I'm against this war ..."

... and then he was drowned out by boos and insults. The camera cut to his opponent; one of the superstars, a frighteningly fierce looking guy with absolutely gigantic arms, whose face revealed incomprehension and then rage. The chump tried to say a few more things about his supposed opposition to the war, and the right to dissent, before the monster attacked him and did the pantomime of administering a savage beating, while all the while the fans (in large part, brain-dead fucking losers i'd imagine) cheered.

I'd always known there were retrograde, elements in the whole spectacle of professional wrestling, obviously. But this blatant war-mongering, and this anti-American (stupidly anti-American if one thought for only 5 seconds about the values their country is supposedly founded on) trivialization of dissent, ... this blatant, text-book fascism, was too appalling for me to ever stomach their vile nonsense ever again.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 10 March 2005 01:53 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I'd always known there were retrograde, elements in the whole spectacle of professional wrestling, obviously. But this blatant war-mongering, and this anti-American (stupidly anti-American if one thought for only 5 seconds about the values their country is supposedly founded on) trivialization of dissent

That's how I feel. It is like a twenty-first century version of Orwell's "group hate". Also, the story lines are nearly always reactionary. I haven't yet seen one where the fans are allowed to whip themselves into a frenzy because of the unequal distribution of wealth, or because health care is unavailable to millions.

Here's my story line: A mean factory owner who steals from the employees' pension fund gets knocked out by an honest working stiff.

When will we see that?


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 10 March 2005 01:54 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by thwap:
. . . . before the monster attacked him and did the pantomime of administering a savage beating, while all the while the fans (in large part, brain-dead fucking losers i'd imagine) cheered.

I'd always known there were retrograde, elements in the whole spectacle of professional wrestling, obviously. But this blatant ... this blatant, text-book fascism, was too appalling for me to ever stomach their vile nonsense ever again.


Sounds like hockey. Seriously, I can't stand watching either any gladiator sport.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Janelle
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posted 11 March 2005 12:01 AM      Profile for Janelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I use to be totally in love with Andre the Giant.... Ironic, considering my full adult height is a whopping 4 feet eight inches of fury.

I have often been suprised with the total conviction wrestling fans have for it. In high school, someone obsessively was talking about the ups and downs of Stone Cold and seemed to be getting quite agitated [He also had this wrestler alter ego he would talk about himself as]. In a super bright moment, I said " Oh, that sh**'s all fake anyway". Suddenly I found myself flat on the ground with this person, face purple, screaming in face. I've never said a word agianst wrestling since, unless I know who I'm talking to. I mean, I can talk hockey or football and the discussion can get heated, but I nor anyone I know has ever gotten the same reaction for saying that the Bombers blow!

I have also observed that the most devoted fans of wrestling I know have little to look forward to in their own lives, and it seems to become an escape for them. The guy I mentioned above was 16 and working two jobs while going to high school to pay the family rent and bills. The only time he wasn't working was when wrestling was on,he scheduled it that way, and his life was like that frrom 14 years old on. In a similar position, i could see myself developing some sort of obsessive fixation.

And Leaf fans aren't stupid, thy're just overly optimistic


From: Regina | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
James
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posted 11 March 2005 12:17 AM      Profile for James        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am offended (always have been) by this even being called "wrestling". I and both of my brothers were all fairly sucessful varsity and collegiate wrestlers. In fact, both my brothers won "full-load" scholarships to major U.S. universities.
Olympic freestyle wresting is about the most demanding sport known, physically and mentally. To excell, it requies conditioning known to few other sports, and the mind of a chess player thoughout.
These T.V, goofs should not be allowed to use the term.

From: Windsor; ON | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
mayakovsky
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posted 11 March 2005 12:59 AM      Profile for mayakovsky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, me hockey. Please don't say nasty things about me hockey. Okay, I admit it hockey can be brutal at times. But it can also be a sport of great finesse and beauty. Personally I am put off by football (the American game). They have the Air Force do fly-bys during the opening ceremonies of the Super Bowl. Sport and militarism. I agree James. I watched wrestling for the first time during the last Summer Olympics and was enthralled. These athletes have to be strong but also great tacticians, I admit the nuances of the point system still intrigue/perplex me.
From: New Bedford | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 11 March 2005 07:45 AM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wrestled in high school. It is good, all-over stuff, legs keeping balanced, arms pulling/pushing, torso doing all sorts of things.

I could beat teammates two weight classes above me at practice, and then i'd get whupped fighting chubby guys younger'n me at the actual meets.


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
smokingeatingdrinkingprohibited
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posted 11 March 2005 08:19 AM      Profile for smokingeatingdrinkingprohibited     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of the big differences that I have found between pop culture in America (N.America?) and some other countries is that American stuff always seems to have to be very over the top. What comes immediately to mind in US Films. By which I mean in your face obviousness, with absolutely NO subtlety.

Seems to describe the WWF perfectly. All exaggerated characatures. And it is telling of a population who needs to engage in stuff like that. As opposed to, say, French films which are nuanced with a lot of subtleties.


From: Glasgee | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged

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