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» babble   » right brain babble   » culture   » Brokeback Mountain: the continuing story

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Author Topic: Brokeback Mountain: the continuing story
Hephaestion
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posted 14 February 2006 06:15 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Cowboys, straight and gay, unhappy with Brokeback Mountain'

quote:
For Grant McKinney, a real-life gay cowboy, parallels between his life and those of the conflicted main characters in Brokeback Mountain are easy to see.

But he figures the realistic portrayals in the Oscar-nominated Hollywood blockbuster, while they have garnered much public sympathy, are unlikely to change many minds in the long run.

"It's stuff that has been happening for years. It's just someone has finally had the initiative to put it in our faces," said McKinney, 44, who has trained horses in Alberta for more than 20 years.

"People are going on and on about Brokeback Mountain and how it's such a groundbreaker but you know what? Get over it. It's not a groundbreaker.

"It's just set in a rural setting with `masculine' cowboys, where gay people are usually stereotyped as effeminate."

Sitting at the kitchen table of his log home at Prairie Wind Stables, 45 miles south of Calgary, McKinney described growing up on a farm in what he called a typical redneck Alberta family. Like the two characters in the movie, McKinney got married, not acknowledging he was any different. It's something many men deal with, he said.

"Some people accept it, some people deny it, get married and live a secret life, and some people just don't live with it at all."

[...]

You won't see anything like the Stampede marketing machine there. The Alberta Rockies Gay Rodeo Association has remained low-key ever since a newspaper photographer shot an unauthorized photo that outed one of its members 13 years ago.

The success of Brokeback Mountain has, if anything, drawn unwanted attention to the gay rodeo, said association spokesman Patrick J., who declined to give his last name.

"There are things that the movie points out that are extremely accurate. People do lose their employment when they're known to be gay," he said. "I don't think that has changed much in some circles.

"That's why we're cautious of media exposure and coverage in our own organization, because it has repercussions in the daily lives of our members."



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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 14 February 2006 09:28 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Since the thread that never ends ended without my getting an answer to my question, I shall repost it here... To wit:

quote:
Originally posted by Walker:
Being gay or straight or anything else has very little to do with the big picture of how people get through life.

And you know this... how?


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 14 February 2006 07:14 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Willie Nelson is dusting off an old song in honor of the mood Brokeback Mountain has engendered in pop culture.

Cowboys Are Frequently Secretly Fond of Each Other has been a standard for the gay punk band Pansy Division, but Nelson's new recording is likely to give it much wider play:

quote:
There's many a strange impulse out on the plains of West Texas
There's many a young boy who feels things he don't comprehend.
Well small town don't like it when somebody falls between sexes,
No, small town don't like it when a cowboy has feelings for men.

Well I believe in my soul that inside every man there's a feminine,
And inside every lady there's a deep manly voice loud and clear.
Well, a cowboy may brag about things that he does with his women,
But the ones who brag loudest are the ones that are most likely queer.

Cowboys are frequently secretly fond of each other
What did you think those saddles and boots was about?
There's many a cowboy who don't understand the way that he feels towards his
brother,
Inside every cowboy there's a lady who'd love to slip out.

Ten men for each woman was the rule way back when on the prairie,
And somehow those cowboys must have kept themselves warm late at night.
Cowboys are famous for getting riled up about fairies,
But I'll tell you the reason a big strong man gets so uptight:

Cowboys are frequently secretly fond of each other
That's why they wear leather, and Levi's and belts buckled tight.
There's many a cowboy who don't understand the way that he feels towards his
brother
There's many a cowboy who's more like a lady at night.

Well there's always somebody who says what the others just whisper,
And mostly that someone's the first one to get shot down dead:
When you talk to a cowboy don't treat him like he was a sister
Don't mess with the lady that's sleepin' in each cowboy's head.

Cowboys are frequently secretly fond of each other
Even though they take speed and drive pickups and shoot their big guns
There's many a cowboy who don't understand the way that he feels towards his
brother
There's many a cowboy who keeps quiet about things he's... done.



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Cueball
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posted 14 February 2006 07:41 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Willie is a Peronist, and a good guy!
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 14 February 2006 08:17 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Willie is a Peronist, and a good guy!

Supporter of the late Juan Peron, or his politics, such as they were? Curious. Could you elaborate?


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Cueball
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posted 14 February 2006 08:21 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh its just a line from a movie called "Funny Dirty Little War." About Argentina. It was made in 1982. There are certain people whom it seems to fit, like Chuck Cadman.
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'lance
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posted 14 February 2006 08:28 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think I remember hearing about this at the time. Looks interesting, thanks for the reminder.

/drift

quote:
They won't won't be seeing Robin Burwash there, though. Now 47 and retired from rodeo, Burwash was a four-time Canadian bareback champion, two-time winner at the Calgary Stampede and the 1988 Cowboy of the Year. And definitely not gay.

``I don't believe in what they do and so I darn sure wouldn't pay money to go and condone it or to help sell it or promote it,'' he said of the movie.

Burwash understands his views aren't shared by everyone but offers no apologies.

``Is that redneck? Is that homophobic? No. It's standing up for what's right and what's wrong in our minds.''


I don't suppose it would matter to this guy that, strictly speaking, the guys in the movie are shepherds rather than cowboys? (That's right, isn't it?)

(crickets, tumbleweed...)

Nah. Thought not.


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siren
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posted 14 February 2006 08:31 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:
Willie Nelson is dusting off an old song in honor of the mood Brokeback Mountain has engendered in pop culture.

Great! Now all the progressive community needs is for Dolly Parton to come out of the closet.


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Walker
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posted 14 February 2006 08:48 PM      Profile for Walker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:
Since the thread that never ends ended without my getting an answer to my question, I shall repost it here... To wit:

And you know this... how?


Unlike quite a few people here, I don't actually purport to know something in the irrefutable sense. I'll reword it thus:

I would argue that being gay or straight or anything else has very little to do with the big picture of how people get through life.

Happy with that? Probably not. So counter with your own philosophy.


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Cueball
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posted 14 February 2006 08:55 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by siren:

Great! Now all the progressive community needs is for Dolly Parton to come out of the closet.


Willie is a little more interesting and thoughtful than that. You should give him credit where credit is due.

He doesn't wear his politcal views on his sleeves.


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Cueball
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posted 14 February 2006 09:00 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Willie Nelson Endorses Kucinich For President

quote:
Country music singer Willie Nelson threw his political support behind Presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinich on Tuesday.

"I normally do not get too heavily involved in politics, but this is more about getting involved with America than with politics," Nelson said in the statement released by the Kucinich campaign.

"I encourage people to learn more about Dennis Kucinich at his website, and I will be doing all I can to raise his profile with voters." said Nelson, who endorsed Green Party candidate Ralph Nader in 2000 and also plans to hold concerts to raise much-needed funds for the Kucinich race.



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Walker
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posted 14 February 2006 09:40 PM      Profile for Walker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Person on street thinks Brokeback Mountain is anti-horse
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Walker
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posted 14 February 2006 10:15 PM      Profile for Walker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A quote from the story posted at the top of this thread that Hephaestion chose not to include:

quote:

It's also unfortunate, said Stephen Lock of Equality for Gays and Lesbians Everywhere. He gives Brokeback Mountain top marks for its realistic love story.

``Those of us who are gay or gay supportive - it's like preaching to the choir. It reaffirms what we know,'' Lock explained.

``Those who you want to see it are those who react against any suggestion that being gay is quite normal - that's who you want to see it.''

quote:

But that would have ruined his never-ending quest to pour shit on this movie. Why? Who knows.

The last line from Stephen Lock says it all really. It's a nonsense for people to criticise the film and its makers on the basis that it's
not gay enough or
not real enough or
too violent or
too tragic or
none of them are gay in real life or
what the fuck ever.

In accepting that this is a Hollywood movie made with Hollywood money aimed at a mainstream audience, it IS groundbreaking and it DOES deserve all the plaudits and awards it is getting.
I understand that the LGBTI community and its supporters want more, and so do I, but this is a great start and, for all the limitations of the Hollywood system, it is a big step forward.

Hell, at least it's not another In and Out!


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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 14 February 2006 10:49 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Walker:

Hell, at least it's not another In and Out!

Agreed.


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CMOT Dibbler
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posted 14 February 2006 11:21 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Country music singer Willie Nelson threw his political support behind Presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinich on Tuesday.

Is Kucininch a rightist ass wipe?


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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 14 February 2006 11:37 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Is Kucininch a rightist ass wipe?


No, he was the 'mainstream' candidate who was furthest left last time around.


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siren
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posted 14 February 2006 11:45 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Willie is a little more interesting and thoughtful than that. You should give him credit where credit is due.

He doesn't wear his politcal views on his sleeves.


I'm aware of some of the complexities of Nelson; support of Kucinich, farm aid, rejection of materialism, etc. I in no way meant to minimize him, his views or his iconic role in American culture.

Or to minimize similar attributes as they apply to Parton.


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 14 February 2006 11:57 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The last line from Stephen Lock says it all really. It's a nonsense for people to criticise the film and its makers on the basis that it's
not gay enough or
not real enough or
too violent or
too tragic or
none of them are gay in real life or
what the fuck ever.

I think the reason why there is so much grumbling from hardcore gay activists is the fact that this movie was promoted as THE GAY FILM OF THE CENTURY and it clearly wasn't. the Queer rights veterans are just now coming off their PR high and relizing that Brokeback wasn't the homosexual equvilant of Lawrence of Arabia. They are disapointed that BBM wasn't the answer to all their prayers. It was still a damn fine movie though, and it was the first time I've seen working class gays on the big screen.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


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Walker
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posted 15 February 2006 12:34 AM      Profile for Walker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

I think the reason why their is so much grumbling from hardcore gay activists is the that this movie was promoted as THE GAY FILM OF THE CENTURY! and it wasn't. the Queer rights veterans are just now coming off their PR high and relizing that Brokeback wasn't the homosexual equvilant of Lawrence of Arabia. It was still a damn fine movie, and it was the first time I saw working class gays on the big screen.

I agree, and see their point, but I repeat that it was aimed at the mainstream, and for them it was pretty revolutionary. Geez, my Mum even took my Dad!! I would have thought that was a fine achievement, to drag the masses to a gay love story.

I would also challenge them to provide the promo that actually said 'THIS IS THE GAY FILM OF THE CENTURY!' I know that PR rolls along and at some point seems to gain a life of its own, but I doubt very much whether the film makers themselves heralded it as such. More likely some gushing nobody interviewer from Puzzlers Weekly...

I'm trying to imagine the queer equivalent of Lawrence of Arabia...
Hang on, no need- what about this plot outline from www.imdb.com:

quote:

Epic rumination on a flamboyant and controversial British military figure and his conflicted loyalties during wartime service.
quote:


From: Not Canada | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 February 2006 12:36 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:

Agreed.


Or Philidelphia.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 15 February 2006 05:02 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

I think the reason why their is so much grumbling from hardcore gay activists is the that this movie was promoted as THE GAY FILM OF THE CENTURY! and it wasn't. The Queer rights veterans are just now coming off their PR high and relizing that Brokeback wasn't the homosexual equvilant of Lawrence of Arabia. It was still a damn fine movie, and it was the first time I saw working class gays on the big screen.



Gee, CMOT, how many "hardcore gay activists" do you know? I consider guys like Larry Kramer and Peter Tatchell to fit that description, but I haven't been made privy to Kramer or Tatchell's opinions on BBM. If you mean other writers or editorialists, like who? Personally, all I've heard is a few comments here and at the 365 forums, and I don't think anyone at either board is a "hardcore gay activist" -- more like just some guys who got pissed off and tired of being shoved around.

As well, I'm not coming off any "high" because I'm not so stupid as to fall for all the Hollywood PR. That's part of what makes me ask questions about all the hyperbole about "groundbreaking" and "epic" -- 'coz see, I've heard/read all that before-- there's been Philedelphia, and Boys Don't Cry, and Crying Game... and I expect there will be another "groundbreaking" film along in about 10 years time, too.

Anyway, I don't call any negative commentary from 'mos "grumbling", I call it being a educated consumer of North American pop culture. As to whether this film is actually any good, I'll reserve judgement until I see it myself. But I *will* say that even sight unseen, I'll listen to some of my queer friends whose opinions on films I respect (like Tape or his BF) before I just accept that this show is as "groundbreaking" as all that.


quote:
Originally posted by Walker:

I agree, and see their point, but I repeat that it was aimed at the mainstream, and for them it was pretty revolutionary. Geez, my Mum even took my Dad!! I would have thought that was a fine achievement, to drag the masses to a gay love story.



Which was exactly my point. Made by straights for straights. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that what's "groundbreaking" for your mum and dad and Middle America might not be all that revolutionary as all that.

I just fail to understand why there is this automatic defensiveness whenever anyone dares to question the meme that Brokebach Mountain is a Revolutionary, Groundbreaking Movie.

Hey, I haven't even seen it, but I can pretty well guarantee it's not all it's made out to be.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 15 February 2006 05:21 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Is Kucininch a rightist ass wipe?


You are making fun of me, yet again.


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baba yaga
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posted 15 February 2006 08:30 AM      Profile for baba yaga     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
In today's Beeb:

quote:
Country music star Willie Nelson has released a tune about gay cowboy romance for Valentine's Day.

Nelson said the release, Cowboys Are Secretly, Frequently (Fond of Each Other), was timed to coincide with Oscar hopeful Brokeback.

The song, originally written in 1981, was played for the first time on Howard Stern's radio show on Tuesday.

"The song's been in the closet for 20 years. The timing's right for it to come out," said Nelson.



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lagatta
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posted 15 February 2006 10:23 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So when is the long-awaited gay lumberjack film going to come out?

The Lumberjack Song

Soloist:
I'm a lumberjack and I'm O.K.
I sleep all night and I work all day.

Mountie Chorus:
He's a lumberjack and he's O.K
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

Soloist:
I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
I go to the lavatory
On Wednesdays I go shopping
And have buttered scones for tea.

Mountie Chorus:
He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch
He goes to the lavatory
On Wednesdays he goes shopping
And has buttered scones for tea.


He's a lumberjack and he's O.K
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

Soloist:
I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I like to press wild flowers
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.

Mountie Chorus:
He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps
He likes to press wild flowers
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?

He's a lumberjack and he's O.K
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

Soloist:
I cut down trees, I wear high heels
Suspenders and a bra
I wish I'd been a girlie
Just like my dear Papa.

Mountie Chorus:
He cuts down trees, he wears high heels
(spoken rather than sung)
Suspenders . . . and a bra?
That's shocking, etc.
That's rude . . . tut-tut . . .
(music runs down)


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
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posted 15 February 2006 02:53 PM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I watched BBM last night and sobbed like a little girl. I love movies like that! Anyway, it was beautifully filmed and the acting was great. Two little quibbles: 1. Heath Ledger mumbled a lot; I found it difficult to understand him and, 2. Not enough hot guy-on-guy action. I have absolutely nothing of substance to add to this thread - I'm feeling very shallow today. But, I can hardly wait for the DVD to come out - hopefully there will be a lot of the aforesaid g-o-g stuff. :::heeee::::
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CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 February 2006 03:09 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I just fail to understand why there is this automatic defensiveness whenever anyone dares to question the meme that Brokebach Mountain is a Revolutionary, Groundbreaking Movie.


In some ways it was and in some ways it wasn't. It's definitely a step up from what's gone before.
In the Rocky horror picture show gays were depicted as sex maniacs, in Philadelphia they were angelized. Now a flick of apears that portrays them as human beings while critiquing American ideas of masculinity, and talking about gay love at the same time. That's refreshing.
It's also nice to see a film about working class gay men, gay men who talk like my gandma did. Innis and Jack are ranch hands, their not doctors or lawyers or landscape architects. They don't live in Manhatten or west Hollywood.
Groundbreaking? You bet your ass it is.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 15 February 2006 03:18 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm waiting for it to become the new short-form though.

"Hey Bob, did you get that shirt at the Brokeback Mountain Gift Shop?


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CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 February 2006 03:26 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Hey, I haven't even seen it, but I can pretty well guarantee it's not all it's made out to be.

Of course it won't be, that's my point. Its impossible for any movie to live up to that much hype. Many people are bound to be disappointed by it.

I don't know any hardcore gay activists, but it just pisses me off that seem to want to pour scorn on a movie that touched me deeply.

Edited to remove unproven accusations against tape and RB.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 15 February 2006 03:51 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Edited to remove unproven accusations against tape and RB.

Oh, fine, don't make me curious or anything.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 February 2006 04:24 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I just removed the part where I said that you and RB had poured scorn on Brokeback Moutain. You obviously didn't. Heph's right, there is no evidence that the gay rights movement is grumbling. He's also correct when says that this isn't a huge breakthrough for the movement as a whole, but it was for me.
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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 15 February 2006 04:36 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Brokeback Survives Censors in Singapore
quote:
Brokeback Mountain has been passed in its entirety by the film censors in Singapore, in spite of the country's stringent laws against homosexuality.
The Oscar-nominated film will be restricted to cinema-goers over the age of 21 and will carry a "mature theme, sexual scenes" warning.

Singapore's media content director said Ang Lee's film was passed as it did not "promote or glamorise the lifestyle".
...
Singapore has attempted to relax controls in an effort to market itself as an arts and media centre.

But in 2004, Taiwanese film Formula 17, which was about two teenage boys falling in love, was banned because it portrayed homosexuality as "normal, and a natural progression of society".



From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 February 2006 04:37 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Brokeback Mountain is also important, because it features gay men who don't fit the "queer eye for the straight guy" stereotype. I think that one of the reasons why that kind of gay character has become so popular in the mainstream media is that it allows homophobic men in the audience to ignore any homoerotic experiences they may have had, and say "well, gosh, I'm not a flaming drama queen so I couldn't possibly be queer!"
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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posted 15 February 2006 04:48 PM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
posted by Mr. Magoo: I'm waiting for it to become the new short-form though. ... "Hey Bob, did you get that shirt at the Brokeback Mountain Gift Shop ?"
But do you think that it would replace the decades-old reference 'friend of Dorothy'?

In today's news on IMDB:

quote:
Actor Heath Ledger agreed to play the role of Ennis Del Mar in Brokeback Mountain because he was keen to express the cowboy's repressed emotions through body language. Director Ang Lee allowed Ledger to choose between the two leading male roles, and Ledger found he could identify with Ennis' struggle. He explains, "I really liked that he had very few words to express his battle. I like representing emotions in the body and in the voice." The actor perfected the character's accent by combining the regional accent of Wyoming and adding "a splash of Texas." He adds, "The accent and the mouth, the clenched fist... he was a clenched person and any form of expression I wanted to be painful, including words and speaking. The words had to fight their way out from within."

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: deBeauxOs ]


From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 15 February 2006 05:01 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by deBeauxOs:
But do you think that it would replace the decades-old reference 'friend of Dorothy'?

That one is slightly before my time. In my youth, the term was 'family.' As in: 'So...umm, dumb question maybe, but are you... ahem, *family*, by any chance?'

If the guy said, 'huh?' you'd back off in a hurry.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Raos
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posted 15 February 2006 06:29 PM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
In the Rocky horror picture show gays were depicted as sex maniacs

Isn't the entire point of Rocky Horror that EVERYTHING is extremely over the top? I love the movie, I can't imagine it really being taken as a serious statement on reality.

quote:
1. Heath Ledger mumbled a lot; I found it difficult to understand him

I found it very endearing in his character.


From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 15 February 2006 07:20 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Canadian Socialist:
1. Heath Ledger mumbled a lot; I found it difficult to understand him and, ...

I believe that is known as the Marlon Brando school of acting. Didn't understand the first 10 minutes of Superman, thanks to that ---and Brando reputedly made 5 million for his appearance.

From Ledge, I thought it was entirely appropriate. I know any number of men uncomfortable with expressing their thoughts. It suited his character completely. (Unlike, for e.g. Superman's father.)


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
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posted 15 February 2006 07:24 PM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by siren:

From Ledge, I thought it was entirely appropriate. I know any number of men uncomfortable with expressing their thoughts. It suited his character completely. (Unlike, for e.g. Superman's father.)


I know that it was appropriate for the character. But I had to keep going back and replaying parts to figure out what he was saying. That's all I'm saying. And there STILL wasn't enough hot guy-on-guy stuff.

From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 15 February 2006 07:25 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:
That one is slightly before my time. In my youth, the term was 'family.' As in: 'So...umm, dumb question maybe, but are you... ahem, *family*, by any chance?'

Hmmm. Adds new meaning to that Sister Sledge disco song "We Are Family."

quote:
Isn't the entire point of Rocky Horror that EVERYTHING is extremely over the top? I love the movie, I can't imagine it really being taken as a serious statement on reality.

Well, it's at least a partly-serious statement that reality -- everyday reality, that is -- is dull and boring. Rose-tint your world, and like that.

As for sex maniacs, the picture says that everyone's potentially a sex maniac, whether gay, straight, or in-between. And that everyone's potentially in-between, if it comes to that.

[ 15 February 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 15 February 2006 07:32 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Canadian Socialist:
And there STILL wasn't enough hot guy-on-guy stuff.

There wasn't enough in Superman, either, come to think of it.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 15 February 2006 07:33 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Canadian Socialist:

But I had to keep going back and replaying parts to figure out what he was saying. That's all I'm saying. And there STILL wasn't enough hot guy-on-guy stuff.


You have it on video (or DVD) already??

Maybe you could lend a copy to Hephaestion.

(I'll admit I was expecting more guy on guy stuff than the movie showed. Then again, I was expecting more girl on girl stuff from Desert of the Heart and that movie flamed there too.)


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
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posted 15 February 2006 07:35 PM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I can only speak for myself... but there NEVER is enough hot guy-on-guy action. On a more serious note, the movie was very good - it was such a heartbreaking love story. The gay aspect of it was secondary (at least in my mind) - it was more along the lines of a Romeo and Juliet tragedy. Not sure if I'm making any sense here. Anyway, I cried and cried. I did so want a happy ending for those two guys. Sigh. But, I just knew it wouldn't happen.
From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 February 2006 09:01 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

You are making fun of me, yet again.


Nope. I really didn't know what party the guy belonged to.

Anyway I'm glad that our willy is still on the side of the Angels


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Hephaestion
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posted 15 February 2006 09:36 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Anyway I'm glad that our willy is still on the side of the Angels



I cannot BELIEVE that RB or someone hasn't come along and made hay with this straight line yet.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 15 February 2006 09:58 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
I just removed the part where I said that you and RB had poured scorn on Brokeback Moutain. You obviously didn't.

I haven't seen it, but I really don't have a problem with straight actors playing gay roles. I don't think it would have been the same with Ian McKellan and Rupert Everett.

I do wish the situation in Hollywood was different and there were plenty of openly gay actors suitable to take on a wide variety of roles, but even then I wouldn't feel that gay roles should automatically be played by gay actors. I've seen too many talented gay and straight Canadian and British actors play both gay and straight roles to think it makes any difference.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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posted 15 February 2006 11:22 PM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
posted by CMOT Dibbler: In the Rocky horror picture show gays were depicted as sex maniacs
And Janet is a nympho!!!

From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sifo-Dyas
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posted 15 February 2006 11:38 PM      Profile for Sifo-Dyas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:

I haven't seen it, but I really don't have a problem with straight actors playing gay roles. I don't think it would have been the same with Ian McKellan and Rupert Everett.

I do wish the situation in Hollywood was different and there were plenty of openly gay actors suitable to take on a wide variety of roles, but even then I wouldn't feel that gay roles should automatically be played by gay actors. I've seen too many talented gay and straight Canadian and British actors play both gay and straight roles to think it makes any difference.


The problem is the "Hollywood closet". Can you name any:

- known, twenty-something, male actors in Hollywood
- who are openly gay
- who are comparable to Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhall in terms of past experience and exposure
- who could have been cast to play Ennis and Jack in Brokeback Mountain?

I can't think of one.


From: --- | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 15 February 2006 11:55 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by deBeauxOs:
And Janet is a nympho!!!

I apolgize, I just coudn't think of a movie in which the gay characters have no redeaming qualitys. There was that James Bond movie which featured gay villians, but I don't think that counts.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 16 February 2006 12:12 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I do wish the situation in Hollywood was different and there were plenty of openly gay actors suitable to take on a wide variety of roles, but even then I wouldn't feel that gay roles should automatically be played by gay actors. I've seen too many talented gay and straight Canadian and British actors play both gay and straight roles to think it makes any difference.


You don't think that having two gay actors performing in a gay love story would give the protagonists a little bit more chemistry?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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posted 16 February 2006 12:25 AM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
posted by CMOT Dibbler: You don't think that having two gay actors performing in a gay love story would give the protagonists a little bit more chemistry?
No. As RB mentioned, you could throw two gay actors together and because of miscasting, the audience wouldn't 'buy' into their attraction or, as often happens with heterosexual actors, the two individuals are unable to create a cinematic chemistry. Whatever was the source or life experience that inspired Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhall to meld onscreen, hot damn!!! it worked.

[ 16 February 2006: Message edited by: deBeauxOs ]


From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 16 February 2006 12:30 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sifo-Dyas:

The problem is the "Hollywood closet". Can you name any:

- known, twenty-something, male actors in Hollywood
- who are openly gay
- who are comparable to Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhall in terms of past experience and exposure
- who could have been cast to play Ennis and Jack in Brokeback Mountain?

I can't think of one.


Gee, I can't imagine why no names come to mind.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 16 February 2006 12:32 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

I apolgize, I just coudn't think of a movie in which the gay characters have no redeaming qualitys. There was that James Bond movie which featured gay villians, but I don't think that counts.


On the other hand Meatloaf was cast to type.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Walker
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posted 16 February 2006 12:38 AM      Profile for Walker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On a related point, what would the reaction have been if the 2 characters in BBM HAD been played by gay actors?

For starters, it wouldn't have generated the reaction it did because the mainstream would have pigeonholed it as a movie for gays.

Also, the mainstream could have more easily dismissed the movie on the basis that it was just gay propaganda.

So one could argue that the fact that it was made by the Hollywood establishment with straight actors, etc. actually strengthened its position viz-a-viz creating a fuss and generating positive attention.


From: Not Canada | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 16 February 2006 12:44 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What?

I'm sorry, I haven't seen TRHPS. I only know it buy rep, but it did seem like a good example.

That's one film I plan to watch when I move out.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 16 February 2006 12:57 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, it probably was a breakthrough movie. Now of course it looks stereotypical, but at the time having a transgendered dirty movie in the mainstream was pretty risque.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Raos
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posted 16 February 2006 01:42 AM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And it's fun to watch, especially in a theatre. According to Guiness World Records 2000 it's the most popular cult film.

And for a film that's 33 years old, it must have something if it still gets people going out in public to watch it in a theatre, while dressed in various states of drag and undress. Plus it involved audience participation!

If you're ever in Edmonton, I can lend you the DVD.


From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 February 2006 03:52 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Gee, I can't imagine why no names come to mind.



And yet, I agree with what Sifo-Dyas wrote.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 February 2006 05:18 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Wanna hear Willy Nelson's new song, "Cowboys Are Frequently Secretly Fond of Each Other"? Well, courtesy of Philo over at Queerday:

quote:
Two years ago, David Anderson, Nelson's friend and tour manager of three decades, told his boss that he's gay. Last year when Nelson recorded a batch of previously unreleased songs for iTunes, he discovered the song in a stack of demos he had tossed into a drawer. It was written in 1981 by Lubbock-born singer-songwriter Ned Sublette and Anderson says it's Willie's way of letting him know everything is ok. Lyrics such as "I believe to my soul that inside every man there's the feminine" and "What did you think all them saddles and boots was about?" are delivered deadpan, giving the song an air of seriousness. If you have iTunes, download the song here for only 99 cents. I have to say it's truly a classic. Nelson's song, according to the Dallas News, is the first gay-themed release by a major country music artist, but haven't there been others by women?


[Edit: Yeeeeesh! I had to tinyurl that download link for that song; it was almost as long as a TorStar link, and made the thread go all blooey...]

[ 16 February 2006: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Paul Gross
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posted 16 February 2006 06:20 AM      Profile for Paul Gross   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is my fave lesbian themed country song, it came "out" in the 1989. I'm not sure if the band "Two Nice Girls" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Nice_Girls qualifies as a "major country music artist" but they were one of my favourite country bands. (Gretchen Phillips has since gone on to a solo career.)

http://frauenmusik.de/index.html?az/aztwogirls.html

quote:
I Spent My Last $10.00 (On Birth Control And Beer)
(Two Nice Girls)

When I was a young girl like normal girls do
I looked to a woman's love to help get me through
I never needed any more than a feminine touch
I hated the thought of kissing a man, it really was too much

I did not drink, I did not smoke I did not say "goddamn"
I was polite, I was sensitive before I loved a man
My family, they were proud of me, were proud of what I am
But then along came Lester and my tell of woe began

Chorus:
I spent my last ten dollars on birth control and beer
My life was so much simpler when I was sober and queer
But the love of a strong hairy man has turned my head I fear
And made me spend my last ten bucks on birth control and beer

It was June 1983 when Mary Lou and I did part
She said she loved another dyke, my god, it broke my heart
I was bitter and disillusioned to lose another girl friend
Lester came to work at Papa's store and decided to ease on in

Before my last heartbreak nothing made me more sick
Than a hairy-chested, cheap double-breasted suited man with a hard dick
I guess that I was curius, I guess that I was young
I guess it was that rum and coke, I guess that I was dumb

For of course, for a woman to love a man she must also love to booze
If a woman don't drink beside her man, then she will surely lose him
As I sit in this hetero honky-tonk and reflect upon my past
I think about those girlfriends and why they didn't last

For there's certain thrills that lesbian love simply cannot supply
Like paying for abortions from sperm gone awry
And so I say to you my friends without this man I'd die
So listen to my tell of woe and hang your head and cry


[ 16 February 2006: Message edited by: Paul Gross ]


From: central Centretown in central Canada | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 16 February 2006 08:03 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

You don't think that having two gay actors performing in a gay love story would give the protagonists a little bit more chemistry?


Only if they were hot for each other and it translated to the screen. There have been so many instances of straight couples not performing well together and actors who despised each other generating heat, that I don't think two gay actors are any more likely to be a believable couple than two straight ones.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 16 February 2006 10:44 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
This is fucking well disgusting! I just heard on CBC Radio that the Alberta government is attempting to use BBM to promote Alberta tourism, even to the point of hiring "cowboys" to ride up and down streets in big American cities.

Alberta.

The province (and premier) that fought Bill C-38 so hard, and that STILL won't actually, physically amend the provincial human rights code to include sexual orientation, regardless of what the courts say. Hey, as long as they can use the celluloid pseudo-gays to make a quick buck by luring gullible tourists to Alberta, then what the hell, eh?

I wasn't able to find an on-line story about this, but a quick Google search turned up a RAFT of hits. Jeez, what I wouldn't give for an unobstructed swing at Ralphie's gonads with a hob-nailed boot, right about now.

[ 16 February 2006: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 16 February 2006 11:01 AM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Kind of depends on the approach, I suppose.

"Come to Alberta, where Brokeback Mountain was filmed!"...okay, sure.

"Come to Alberta, where Brokeback Mountain was filmed and gay cowboys are A-OK with us!"...not so much.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
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posted 16 February 2006 02:25 PM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
posted by Hephaestion: This is fucking well disgusting! I just heard on CBC Radio that the Alberta government is attempting to use BBM to promote Alberta tourism, even to the point of hiring "cowboys" to ride up and down streets in big American cities.
Hang on ... creating another gay job ghetto is nothing to sneeze at. I mean ...!! how many gay men want to be flight attendants, waiters, decorators, model/actors, morticians and hairstylists?

Oh wait ... Alberta is only hiring heterosexual cowboys?


From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
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posted 17 February 2006 09:15 PM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by siren:

You have it on video (or DVD) already??

Maybe you could lend a copy to Hephaestion.

(I'll admit I was expecting more guy on guy stuff than the movie showed. Then again, I was expecting more girl on girl stuff from Desert of the Heart and that movie flamed there too.)



Oh, dear... I've been outed. I am a Bittorrent user. I do not have a TV, nor will I go to a movie theatre. However, in my defence, if I really like something, I buy the DVD. Heph: try out Bittorrents... you can get the screener. If you like the movie, do what I'm going to do... buy the DVD. You'll get all the extras. Please don't turn me in.

From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
jrootham
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posted 17 February 2006 09:36 PM      Profile for jrootham     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
(I'll admit I was expecting more guy on guy stuff than the movie showed. Then again, I was expecting more girl on girl stuff from Desert of the Heart and that movie flamed there too.)

Did you mean Desert Hearts perchance?


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Hephaestion
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posted 17 February 2006 09:36 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Canadian Socialist:
Heph: try out Bittorrents... you can get the screener. If you like the movie, do what I'm going to do... buy the DVD. You'll get all the extras. Please don't turn me in.


Well, that would require a computer that was a tad newer and with more bells and whistles than I have. (Prolly need high-speed, too.)

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Raos
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posted 17 February 2006 09:49 PM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I absolutely agree with that mode of practice. It's the same way I operate with books (only legally). I borrow them from the library, read them, and if I think the work is worth supporting, I buy the book. As for movies, I only tend to get around to watching them if I've already hear that they're really really worth watching.
From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 18 February 2006 12:43 AM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Canadian Socialist:
Oh, dear... I've been outed. I am a Bittorrent user. I do not have a TV, nor will I go to a movie theatre. However, in my defence, if I really like something, I buy the DVD. . .

Please don't turn me in.


Oh. My very very bad. Didn't mean to out you in any way shape or form. I don't know what Bittorrents is, but if you love one another, or all of you love one another, then that's good enough for me.

quote:
Originally posted by jrootham:

Did you mean Desert Hearts perchance?


Yes, that's it. I guess the original novel by Jane Rule was called, Desert of the Heart. Good movie, really and very adventuresome for the time. Whatever happened to the dark haired actress (on edit, Patricia Charbonneau) who seduced Helen Shaver?

[ 18 February 2006: Message edited by: siren ]


From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 18 February 2006 07:34 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sifo-Dyas:

The problem is the "Hollywood closet". Can you name any:

- known, twenty-something, male actors in Hollywood

- who are openly gay

- who are comparable to Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhall in terms of past experience and exposure

- who could have been cast to play Ennis and Jack in Brokeback Mountain?

I can't think of one.



Ian McKellen agrees with you, Sifo-Dyas...

quote:
Speaking at the Berlin Film Festival where he received a lifetime achievement award, out gay British actor Sir Ian McKellen lashed out at Hollywood saying that openly gay US actors are prevented from having successful careers. "It is very, very, very difficult for an American actor who wants a film career to be open about his sexuality, and even more difficult for a woman if she's lesbian. It's very distressing to me that that should be the case. The film industry is very old fashioned in California," McKellen said. As for the lifetime achievement award, McKellen says he's enjoying a late burst of global fame and that he still has a lot of life left. He told the audience, "I still hope I've got a lot of life left on stage and making films." Queer Day hopes he'll keep telling it like it is as well.


Oh, golly, here's a choice role -- playing Rock Hudson. Wonder who's gonna get that plum?

[ 18 February 2006: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
siren
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posted 19 February 2006 11:46 PM      Profile for siren     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess I was too busy watching the film to focus much on the soundtrack. But I still can't believe I didn't catch the dulcet tones of one of my favourites -- Emmylou Harris.

quote:
Only legends should sing gay country
The twang fan isn't ready for Brokeback ballads, DJs say
JOHN GEROME

Associated Press (via the Globe & Mail

NASHVILLE -- Never mind that country music is considered bedrock conservative, the unofficial red-state soundtrack. This year, some of country's most famous names are singing in movies with gay and transsexual themes.

Dolly Parton received an Oscar nomination for Travelin' Thru, a song she wrote and sang for Transamerica, while Willie Nelson and Emmylou Harris are heard on the Oscar front-runner Brokeback Mountain.

Nelson, always an iconoclast in his music and politics, even released a gay cowboy song on Valentine's Day, Cowboys Are Frequently, Secretly (Fond of Each Other).

~~~~~~~~~~

Veteran country stars like Parton, Nelson and Harris can reach out to a gay audience because they have loyal fans. Their careers aren't driven by hit records because country radio already ignores them.

Parton, who has always embraced her large gay following, says she's too stubborn to worry about a negative response.

"I'm old enough and cranky enough now that if someone tried to tell me what to do, I'd tell them where to put it," Parton, 60, recently told The Associated Press.



From: Of course we could have world peace! But where would be the profit in that? | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
babblerwannabe
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posted 25 February 2006 02:45 AM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I love this movie. It is so much about love.
From: toronto | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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Babbler # 6718

posted 26 February 2006 09:59 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
I couldn't let this thread sit at 69 posts. 'twasn't decent.

quote:
Wouldn't it have been a totally different movie if you'd cast gay actors?

I prayed I could find someone like that, to make my job easier. If it was going to be a smaller release, things might have been different. But I needed recognizable actors to get the necessary budget, and I needed good actors to deliver performances and I needed people willing to do it. Finding a gay actor willing to do a gay role is probably harder than finding a straight actor willing to do a gay role. - Ang Lee


http://tinyurl.com/mf5k2


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Hephaestion
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posted 26 February 2006 10:10 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reality. Bites.:

Finding a gay actor willing to do a gay role is probably harder than finding a straight actor willing to do a gay role. - Ang Lee



Maybe that's because

quote:
"It is very, very, very difficult for an American actor who wants a film career to be open about his sexuality, and even more difficult for a woman if she's lesbian. It's very distressing to me that that should be the case. The film industry is very old fashioned in California," McKellen said.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Accidental Altruist
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posted 27 February 2006 10:09 AM      Profile for Accidental Altruist   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'd been avoiding these discussions since I accidentally saw a spoiler posted on babble (note to all: If yer gonna talk about serious plot developments please begin with something like:{{{spoiler alert}}}).

Last thing I wanted was to find out any more than I already knew.

So *whew* I finally saw the movie. It was wonderful. My partner and I have seen scads of LGBT friendly flicks and this was a good'un. The chemistry was so palpable I actually gasped out loud. I felt so much empathy for Ennis in his repressed existence. It was the saddest film I ever saw. I sobbed. My partner sobbed.

But the best part for me is knowing that this flick is getting seen by audiences who would never head to the "gay" section of their local video store. This movie won't be categorized as a special interest love story - it'll be right there in the same section as Romeo and Juliet, Titanic & Casablanca!

[edited one last time to fix a very bad cut n' paste job]

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: Accidental Altruist ]


From: i'm directly under the sun ... ... right .. . . . ... now! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Accidental Altruist
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posted 27 February 2006 10:10 AM      Profile for Accidental Altruist   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
i wanted to edit - but quoted myself.

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: Accidental Altruist ]


From: i'm directly under the sun ... ... right .. . . . ... now! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
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posted 27 February 2006 10:18 AM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This should be funny....
Jon Stewart & George Clooney in BBM spoof... in bed!

From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stereo Type
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Babbler # 12141

posted 27 February 2006 10:44 AM      Profile for Stereo Type     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by 'lance:
They won't won't be seeing Robin Burwash there, though. Now 47 and retired from rodeo, Burwash was a four-time Canadian bareback champion, two-time winner at the Calgary Stampede and the 1988 Cowboy of the Year. And definitely not gay.

Bareback champion, huh? Bet his momma's proud.


From: Toronto, ON | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 27 February 2006 12:08 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Gee, even the fundie wingnuts have got "Brokeback Fever"

quote:
A Florida company known for its "faith-based" clothing line has begun distributing a T-shirt that uses "Brokeback Mountain" to condemn gays.

The T-shirts depict an angry Moses on Mount Sinai looking down on a group of ancient Israelites and modern gay cowboys who are dancing around an idol of the biblical Golden Calf.

The caption on the T-shirts reads "In his anger, Moses BROKE the two tablets of stone that the Ten Commandments were written on while walking BACK down the MOUNTAIN."

The T-shirts also bear the message "The Original 10 Commandments, BrokeBack on the Mountain".

The T-shirts are made by Second Coming Clothing Co.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 27 February 2006 12:15 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I went to see it with Mrs. oldgoat and the kids this weekend. We really liked it. It really is the sort of movie that sticks with you. It was just so damn sad though. There are no happy people in this movie.

Something it really brought back though, was about 30 years ago I spent some time out there doing some horseback riding through very similar country. It was in the Sheep River Park in the Turner Valley area, I believe not far from where some of the movie was shot. Didn't see any sheep, but lotsa' cows. I was probably the only one in a hundred miles riding English saddle, which probably could have got me beat up in itself.

Found a photo of the area that I may have been in...


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 27 February 2006 12:29 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
First it was 'Brokeback Squadron' Or 'Brokeback Topgun'. We all knew about that one. Now get ready for a close relationship we all never even suspected....

Yes ... it's Brokeback Trek.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E268536BC

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: mary123 ]


From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 27 February 2006 12:37 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's the infamous clip of someone asking Bush about Brokeback Mountain .... What a doofus the Fake President is ...

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1A8216BC


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ronb
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posted 27 February 2006 12:38 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Never suspected?! There's a whole series of fan fiction devoted to their relationship. There's even an unofficial spinoff series: The Hidden Frontier.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
mary123
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posted 27 February 2006 12:41 PM      Profile for mary123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ronb ok it will be a revelation for all the non- trekkie fans out there ... hehe ....
From: ~~Canada - still God's greatest creation on the face of the earth~~ | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 27 February 2006 12:46 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The revelation for me is this whole concept of "non-trekkie fan".
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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Babbler # 1064

posted 27 February 2006 02:00 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
I went to see it with Mrs. oldgoat and the kids this weekend. We really liked it. It really is the sort of movie that sticks with you. It was just so damn sad though. There are no happy people in this movie.

Something it really brought back though, was about 30 years ago I spent some time out there doing some horseback riding through very similar country. It was in the Sheep River Park in the Turner Valley area, I believe not far from where some of the movie was shot. Didn't see any sheep, but lotsa' cows. I was probably the only one in a hundred miles riding English saddle, which probably could have got me beat up in itself.

Found a photo of the area that I may have been in...


It's truly spectacular country. When working anywhere near (south of) Calgary I never missed an opportunity to detour through Longview, Black Diamond, and Turner Valley on my way back to town. Even made side-trips to Bragg Creek on occasion.

Oh, skdadl...? Skdadl, to the nostalgia phone, please, skdadl...


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
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posted 27 February 2006 02:17 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some of the best camping in the province is in that area. You can head deep into the foothills on Hwy 541 and be totally isolated with a half-hour hike.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 27 February 2006 04:34 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
"I am so tired of dead faggots." -- Brad Fraser
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 27 February 2006 04:43 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by 'lance:

It's truly spectacular country. When working anywhere near (south of) Calgary I never missed an opportunity to detour through Longview, Black Diamond, and Turner Valley on my way back to town. Even made side-trips to Bragg Creek on occasion.

Oh, skdadl...? Skdadl, to the nostalgia phone, please, skdadl...


Waaaah! I wanna go home.

Seriously: I often do. It's hard to believe how beautiful it is, even when you're standing in it and staring at it. And to think that when I was a little kid, I affected to be blas about it. I remember once saying to my dad, in response to some lyrical reaction of his to the countryside we were driving through, "Aw, you seen one pine tree, you've seen 'em all."


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 27 February 2006 04:46 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
swallow, I really understand that reaction, except you know very well that in drama generally, we often find happy endings suspect - "Hollywood endings," they get called sometimes.

Great comedy is great art too, but the classic happy ending of a comedy is the wedding - ie, the start of the relationship. Go much further, and great drama is most often going to be heading for tragedy-land.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 27 February 2006 04:56 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, that is inevitable, given that there are basically three possible outcomes:

1) the relation breaks up or sours;

2) one of the spouses dies before the other, leaving the other spouse in mourning or;

3) both spouses die simultaneously, hence most likely in a tragic accident or are murdered or executed, leaving sad friends and family.

That's life, I guess...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 27 February 2006 04:58 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I remember once saying to my dad, in response to some lyrical reaction of his to the countryside we were driving through, "Aw, you seen one pine tree, you've seen 'em all."

Well, this is it. Since we lived in eastern Ontario, there'd come a Sunday every fall when my parents would say "let's go for a drive and look at the fall colours." We'd roll our eyes and prepare for three hours of boredom.

Of course, the time the DMM and I visited Ontario at Thanksgiving, we went driving on most of that same back-road route we'd followed as a fambly, twenty-five years before. To look at the fall colours.

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 27 February 2006 04:58 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sometimes it feels like a dirty trick, eh?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 27 February 2006 04:58 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I loved the movie. It was beautiful in every way. Maybe Brokeback Mountain is our Roots. Maybe "ground-breaking" has to have broken bodies, i dunno.
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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Babbler # 6718

posted 27 February 2006 04:59 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Great comedy is great art too, but the classic happy ending of a comedy is the wedding - ie, the start of the relationship. Go much further, and great drama is most often going to be heading for tragedy-land.

I remember Miss Manners writing of a bride who wanted her wedding day to be the happiest day of her life. "And it was. Each succeeding day was progressively less happy."


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 27 February 2006 05:00 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
I remember Miss Manners writing of a bride who wanted her wedding day to be the happiest day of her life. "And it was. Each succeeding day was progressively less happy."

"I've been married for three great years. The twenty-seven since haven't been too bad. I guess."


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 27 February 2006 05:03 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
D'you know, I actually saw that happen once when I were a young 'un.

I was being a bridesmaid, actually - my friend the bride and I would have been twenty, I think. I was standing right next to her in the reception line, and some woman came along and held her hands and said to her, "This will be the happiest day of your life."

And right away, my friend's face fell. I saw it. The horror the horror. It hit her right then.

Actually, that turned out to be a good marriage.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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Babbler # 6718

posted 27 February 2006 05:07 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
I remember a commercial years ago where a woman said in voice over "When I had my baby it was the ultimate experience in my life."

I always thought it was so sad she died in childbirth.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 27 February 2006 05:15 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reality. Bites.:
I remember a commercial years ago where a woman said in voice over "When I had my baby it was the ultimate experience in my life."

I always thought it was so sad she died in childbirth.


One of the great unmade film sequels: Sunset Boulevard: Nancy's Story.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stereo Type
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Babbler # 12141

posted 27 February 2006 05:16 PM      Profile for Stereo Type     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by swallow:
"I am so tired of dead faggots." -- Brad Fraser

As a bitchy queen, Brad Fraser ought to be able to find something better to complain about.

The movie is important. It's a story of gay love that is getting a shit load of media attention and challenging the attitudes and preconceived notions of a lot of people. Don't knock it.

The argument that the plot is somehow substandard (too tragic?) makes no sense to me. The movie wouldn't have the impact it does if it was merely a role reversal of "My Best Friend's Wedding". What's the last feel good comedy romance flick that got Oscar buzz?

Maybe Mr. Fraser thinks that the movie isn't true-to-life for modern audiences? My advice - get out of the city once in a while and see how similar today's farm country is to 1960s Wyoming.


From: Toronto, ON | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 27 February 2006 05:21 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why do we always resort to words like "bitchy queen" so quickly? Isn't discussion and reflection allowed? (When we don't all feel the need to rush to the defence of every gay-positive movie, maybe then we'll have made a breakthrough.)

Brad Fraser is from Alberta, by the way.


From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
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posted 27 February 2006 05:22 PM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
I remember once saying to my dad, in response to some lyrical reaction of his to the countryside we were driving through, "Aw, you seen one pine tree, you've seen 'em all."

My brother always says, "It's just one goddamn majestic mountain scene after another." heeee.

From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 27 February 2006 05:23 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stereo Type
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12141

posted 27 February 2006 05:42 PM      Profile for Stereo Type     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by swallow:
Why do we always resort to words like "bitchy queen" so quickly? Isn't discussion and reflection allowed? (When we don't all feel the need to rush to the defence of every gay-positive movie, maybe then we'll have made a breakthrough.)

Brad Fraser is from Alberta, by the way.


Apologies. Brad Fraser is a fairly active member of the community here in Toronto, and I have long had a dislike of his sarcastic and typically negative commentary. The "bitchy queen" remark was more reactionary than it should have been. Touche.

But I stand by the rest of my post. Yes, the movie was tragic. No "happily ever after". But it's important. It's easy to forget how intolerant and behind the times the world is when we live in a relatively tolerant culture and hang out in our own progressive social circles.

I'm originally from rural Newfoundland, and my friends and family needed to see this movie. They need to understand that being gay is about love and all the real life tragedies that can come with that. Gay people are not just there for comedy (a la Will & Grace - in which an attractive, physically fit, successful, openly gay man in New York city hasn't had sex in 10 years).

It's about time we had a gay love story with real characters that "normal" people can identify with.


From: Toronto, ON | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
swallow
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posted 27 February 2006 05:55 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree wit you, Stereo. Like i said, i loved Brokeback Mountain, it was beautiful. Brad Fraser had some good things to say about it too. Shows how far we've come, maybe. Shows we've got a long way to go, too, maybe.
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 27 February 2006 06:00 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Yeah, okay, Stereo Type... it's just that, as Crippled Newsie and I have pointed out, it *always* seems to end with dead queers.


(And no, neither of us has seen it... yet.)


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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Babbler # 7024

posted 27 February 2006 06:00 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo Type:

Gay people are not just there for comedy (a la Will & Grace - in which an attractive, physically fit, successful, openly gay man in New York city hasn't had sex in 10 years).

It's about time we had a gay love story with real characters that "normal" people can identify with.


Something I've noticed in many gay-themed films-- even some of the 'keepers'-- is that Our Hero is invariably an uber- sensitive soul tired of meaningless sex and the so-called 'bar scene.' Unlike all of his narcissistic pals, Our Hero pines away, monk-like, wishing, hoping, pleading with the Heavens for a boyf.

What ever happened to the guys who are having lots of fun getting laid regualrly-- and *also* wouldn't at all mind chucking it if a boyf came along?

In the aforementioned films, Our Hero is presented as an abberation from the frothiness of mainstream homo-dom. And that's just a bit insulting in itself.

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: Crippled_Newsie ]


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Diane Demorney
rabble-rouser
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posted 27 February 2006 06:11 PM      Profile for Diane Demorney   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Alberta flaunts cowboy image in Manhattan
quote:
Alberta still riding the success of Brokeback Mountain has dispatched a small herd of cowboys to Manhattan in hopes of roping in some tourists.

About 10 authentic Alberta rodeo stars and ranch hands were hired along with some ruggedly good looking American actors and models to wander the streets of Manhattan passing out brochures in the shape of cowboy hats and T-shirts to passersby.

The hired hands will also be demonstrating roping skills at Grand Central Station and other New York City landmarks as part of a major travel show there this weekend.



From: Calgary | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 27 February 2006 06:36 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The hired hands will also be demonstrating roping skills at Grand Central Station and other New York City landmarks as part of a major travel show there this weekend.

When are they gonna prove that they're *queer* cowboys? Oh yeah, right. This is all just a farce, right? Straight guys playing gay... Carry on then.

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
token right-wing mascot
Babbler # 4226

posted 27 February 2006 06:44 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Just like the movie.
From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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Babbler # 4117

posted 27 February 2006 06:47 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ya know, I don't think you should go see Brokeback. You're just so set in your ways, and so enammoured of your role as Babble's Queer cinema carmudgen that I believe you'll hate the film no matter what.

quote:
Yeah, okay, Stereo Type... it's just that, as Crippled Newsie and I have pointed out, it *always* seems to end with dead queers.



From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 27 February 2006 07:02 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
As for their fabled star-crossed romance, I never quite got it. I understood why they fucked two cowboys alone for months on the side of a mountain with only cigarettes and whiskey to amuse themselves.

That's an excellent point. Why did they fall in love in first place?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 27 February 2006 07:42 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post
Heywood -- that was my point.

CMOT -- whatever.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sifo-Dyas
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11116

posted 27 February 2006 10:46 PM      Profile for Sifo-Dyas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

"As for their fabled star-crossed romance, I never quite got it. I understood why they fucked two cowboys alone for months on the side of a mountain with only cigarettes and whiskey to amuse themselves."

That's an excellent point. Why did they fall in love in first place?


Why did Romeo and Juliet fall in love in the first place? After all, they just met at a party and the next day Romeo proposed.

The two characters in Brokeback Mountain didn't just "fuck". They spent the summer together working and fell in love - just like straight people who see each other every day (work, school, etc.) fall in love.

The film captures the reality of many gay men: desire, loneliness and hiding your true nature from the world.

[ 27 February 2006: Message edited by: Sifo-Dyas ]


From: --- | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Andy (Andrew)
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Babbler # 10884

posted 01 March 2006 07:20 PM      Profile for Andy (Andrew)   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
One of the child actresses in the movie has a proud family and a less than happy school.
From: Alberta | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 01 March 2006 09:35 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Long thread.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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