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Author Topic: Nutbar Religious Wankers from the Bible Belt
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 06 October 2001 11:25 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JCL, I just had to start a new thread when I saw your comments about Jack Van Impe.

WHAT A WANKER.

Just to make it clear, this thread is not about Islamic religious wankers like bin Laden. There are enough threads about him. This thread is about famous Christian fundamentalist (possibly televangelist) religious wankers like Jack van Impe, or Jimmy Swaggart, or whatever.

Hey, there can still be a debate here, though - for instance, at my church there are people who think Focus on the Family is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I, on the other hand, think Dr. Dobson is the one of the biggest wankers going.

I'm feeling a little verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1387

posted 06 October 2001 01:46 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've never been a major supporter of End Time experts like Van Impe or Grant Jeffries. Who happened to be the uncle of this pastor from a church I went to almost 14, 15 years ago. They exploit the Bible and the dupes who are more focused on the end times rather than the present time.

For awhile, I was one of those dupes. A friend of mine, during the early days of Desert Shield then turned to Desert Storm, that this was it. This is Armageddon. And I believed it...for awhile. The US militarily manhandled (my apologies for the sexist reference ) the Iraqi forces. And I started thinking "This is Armageddon? The big bloodly battle that some of these no name wanks yakked about?" Now, I readily do question the merit of these so called end time experts. I don't deny there will be an End Times nor do I scoff at the Book of Revelations. I do scoff at those who readily take current events to instill fear into the hearts of some Christians who don't use their own minds.

As for James Dobson, well, when I am in church, I've glanced over his Focus in the Family inserts in the church bulletin. I think he's alright but I don't rave about him like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. By the way, I recalled about 10 years ago during a youth group meeting that they had a video by Dobson talking about premarital sex among Christians. He said something like 65% of Christians have had premarital sex while they are Christians. You should've heard the collective "gasp" or "shock" from the people there. It didn't surprise me because I know of some people who are Christians and have taken a few rounds in the sack. They're human. Not invincible.

Well, at least 2 out of 2 rabblers agree that Jack Van Impe is a wanker while the vote is split down the middle on Dobson. *L*

Who says one can't talk just politics at rabble? *L*


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
meades
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posted 06 October 2001 02:13 PM      Profile for meades     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm with Michelle (sorry, JCL ). The other person I would add to the wanker list would be the woman who "co-hosts" his show ( Jack Van Impe, I mean. or used to. Has the show been canceled yet?).

Dear GOD! That woman is creepy!!!! If she showed up on MY doorstep, I'd slam the door, heard everyone to the basement, and yell for the gun!

Uggghhh! She's SO CREEPY!!!!!

Can you not picture her head turning a full 360, while saying "Jesus is our lord. Submit to his will"? Icky! (not that Jesus isn't, just that that woman, again, is SO CREEPY!)

[ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: meades ]


From: Sault Ste. Marie | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1387

posted 06 October 2001 02:43 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
meades - I don't buy Dobson's books. *LOL* As I said, Dobson is alright. Focus on The Family is more aimed at Christians to help have a better more stable home for themselves and their kids. It isn't neccesarily aimed at society in general. Kind of like Ann Landers I suppose. I doubt there would be/is a Christian equivalent of Sue Johnson the Sunday Night Sex Lady. *LOL* The woman on Jack Van Impe's show is his wife I believe. Yeah, I concur about the creepiness factor.

As for shows being cancelled, it's not network tv. It's a specialty channel. If they don't pay, they don't play the shows.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 06 October 2001 05:01 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The other person I would add to the wanker list would be the woman who "co-hosts" his show ( Jack Van Impe, I mean. or used to. Has the show been canceled yet?).

Rexella! Rexella Van Impe! That's the dude's wife (as JCL has pointed out). Yeah, she's as much of a dweeb as her husband.

BTW, Meades, those televangelists don't get cancelled unless they're bad at suckering people to send them money. They completely finance their own air time. And don't worry, there will ALWAYS be enough stupid (or, more charitably, gullible) people who will send them money.

9.5 on the wanker scale, definitely.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
rabble-rouser
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posted 06 October 2001 08:23 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Benny Hinn gets my vote for the absolute most unbelievable. Anyone else think most of the TV evangelists look like mafia dons and their wives like molls?
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 06 October 2001 09:56 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I mean, you have to wonder about a bunch of guys who style their natural hair so that it looks like a toupe. What's up with that?

I'm aghast that guys like Hinn are not arrested for fraud or practicing medicine without a licence. The law gives far too much latitude to these con artists.

I look forward to a day when religious devotion of this nature will be treated with the same humane, healing regard that we extend to other mentally ill persons.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 06 October 2001 11:09 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

I mean, you have to wonder about a bunch of guys who style their natural hair so that it looks like a toupe. What's up with that?
I'm aghast that guys like Hinn are not arrested for fraud or practicing medicine without a licence. The law gives far too much latitude to these con artists.

I look forward to a day when religious devotion of this nature will be treated with the same humane, healing regard that we extend to other mentally ill persons.


Yeah, my parents must be mentally unstable to believe in God that I would not be afflicted by cerebral palsy. Doctors said the moment I was born that I would not live past a month. And if I did, I'd be confined to a wheelchair and be classified as a special needs kid.

Well, obviously, even medical science can be wrong. If those who don't believe that God can touch a person divinely, then why have I beaten out the odds that medical science said I wouldn't live for more than a month?

Want another one?

My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer a few years ago. She went to the doctors to run some tests. They said that she had cancer and wanted her to come back a short time later. She did. She believed that she would be healed of it. She went back to the doctors, the docs couldn't find anything. They even told her they double checked the x-rays to make sure they were the same ones taken from her. They even ran a diagnostic on the machines. Nothing was wrong. And so, she had it for awhile and she believed it would be gone the next time she went back. Jesus said to the sick woman to touched His garment, "Your faith has made you well." It's a dangerous religion alright.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.R.KISSED
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posted 06 October 2001 11:25 PM      Profile for N.R.KISSED     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I look forward to a day when religious devotion of this nature will be treated with the same humane, healing regard that we extend to other mentally ill persons.

I wouldn't wish such cruelty upon anyone.


From: Republic of Parkdale | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 07 October 2001 12:01 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is indeed dangerous if people are going to faith healers instead of getting proper treatment for ailments. It's not only dangerous, it's a dispicable fraud.

The Catholic church investigates claims of miracle "cures" claimed by those who have visited Lourdes.

Taking the instances of cancer remission that the Catholic church can find no explanation for ( I believe they stop short of calling them "miracles"-- it seems the church is stingy on proclaiming them these days) and comparing it to the number of people who go to Lourdes seeking a cure for cancer, it turns out to be less than the natural remission rate for cancer. The ironic conclusion, if one was pressed to draw conclusions from this, is that going to Lourdes might be hazardous to one's health.

You can find a more detailed examination of this example in Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World."

If I were to tell you that I believed in Fairies in my back garden, you might think me oddly eccentric. If I told you you should believe in them too, then you might get annoyed. If I told you that my fairy beliefs should enjoy priveledge under law, you might get offended. If I told you that my fairies had curative powers, you'd deffinately think me a fraud. And if I took advantage of desperately ill people to market my fairies, I certainly hope you'd want me locked up. In jail, or an asylum. Take your pick.

Well, there is as much evidence in support of fairies in my garden as there is for any supreme being.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pankaj
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posted 07 October 2001 12:21 AM      Profile for Pankaj   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tommy, I agree with you about people being taken advantage of by charletans. Prayer, however it might work, does work enough that the National Institutes of Health, U.S. is funding studies which show promising positive results of prayer over illness. I don't think fairies are doing anything but the mind is so powerful that we havn't yet tapped its full potential. And prayer seems to be a way to go in that direction, however mysterious its workings may be.
From: London, ON | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 07 October 2001 12:29 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Certainly a positive outlook has a physical effect on the body; the well documented placebo effect has surely proved this.

But, religion holds no monopoly on this. One can have a positive outlook without prayer.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 07 October 2001 02:25 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tommy, so are you saying that in reality I should be in a wheelchair because I <b>had</b> cerebral palsy and in fact that I can do all this is just in my head? Waiting for you to clarify.

If you believed in fairies, I wouldn't scoff at that or what not. I'd just let the comment slide nor would I attack it. If you said you were healed by a fairy, I wouldn't say a thing.

Oh well, then I guess if getting divine healing from God is dangerous, then I guess Christ got nailed to a tree for nothing. But hey, He'd have done it even if it was for just one soul.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 October 2001 03:28 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JCL, the point is that odds are just that. Odds. They are not certainties. Every now and then, someone does "beat the odds". You're one of them that beat the odds. It happens, and takes no special or magic powers to explain. It's a statistical process.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 07 October 2001 04:00 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
DrC - I don't believe that for a second. By all statistical purposes, where I am today shouldn't have happened. I know you don't believe there is a God. But that's what you believe. I'm not saying that's good or bad, it's your decision. But I do believe there is a God. I don't care what others say if they believe me or the existence of God is true or not. I'm just speaking for myself.
From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 October 2001 05:18 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"statistical" simply means odds. It does not imply certainties.

You're being sloppy in your word usage, and unfortunately it stems directly from your belief that divine intervention was involved in your "beating the odds".

I hate to burst your bubble, but beating the odds is always possible. It's just not very probable, so when it does happen, people are likely to look for supernatural explanations rather than chalk it up to the statistical nature of predictions in cases such as yours.

I've got a hearing impairment. Since it was via German Measles in my mother, the odds were present that I could have been born mentally retarded, et cetera. However all that has happened is a loss of hearing. Do I chalk that up to divine intervention? Hardly. It is simply the statistical nature of trying to predict the consequences of such an event. I happened to be in the percentage of the population born of mothers who contracted German Measles which turned out to have relatively mild effects.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 07 October 2001 05:48 AM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, that is what you believe, and that is in stats. You did not burst my bubble. But I do realize you're speaking from your point of view. In short, you don't believe in supernatural intervention. I do. And as for the hearing impairment, I too have a hearing impairment as well.
From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 07 October 2001 08:39 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
JCL, please. This style of yours where you'd put words in people's mouths, or invent positions for them really does not do your intellect justice.

Certainly, I don't want to see you or any other person confined to a wheel chair.

Because I know that there are more reasonable explanations at hand before we invoke the supernatural to explain you and your mother's as it turns out happy circumstances does not mean I wish you were in a wheel chair, or wish your mother had cancer.

Please, what do you take me for?

Your jump in this instance is a non sequitor, meaning "it does not follow."


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Trisha
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Babbler # 387

posted 07 October 2001 12:19 PM      Profile for Trisha     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I believe in God, I just don't believe in a lot of the people's or organizations interpretation of her/him. I think faith can be a very valuable thing, it brings hope, it gives strength and the feeling you're not totally alone. It gives something to hang onto when all else have failed. What is wrong with that? I also believe in the power of prayer. Usually, you have to believe it will work for it to do so, but not always.

I don't see faith and religion as the same thing. Religion is man's interpretation, faith is the belief that there is more than just what we can touch. I can't see any hope in coincidence (also an intangible). Without hope, mankind is doomed.

I really don't care what others believe in, as long as they believe in hope but to quote the Bible, which many of you don't believe, "the most important is love". I see many of those who don't believe in anything but science showing caring for their fellow man. That shows both hope and love. Why put down those who thank God for these things? Have them for your own reasons, but have them.


From: Thunder Bay, Ontario | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
machiavellian
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posted 08 October 2001 06:19 AM      Profile for machiavellian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It is indeed dangerous if people are going to faith healers instead of getting proper treatment for ailments. It's not only dangerous, it's a dispicable fraud.

Remember Peter Popoff (did I get his name right?) ANother faith healer eager to exploit people's willingness to believe in divine intervention in their illness. Many people thought that he got his information about them straight from God, until it turned out that his wife was reading the info off of prayer cards they had people fill out at the door into a mic in his ear. Yet he's still on TV, taking people's money, and not healing them of their illnesses. Dangerous indeed if he or someone like him tells a man with a heart condition, for example, that he's healed - and the man then has another heart attack.

Or the people who do "surgery" with their hands - by some slight of hand and use of some bacon as the "tumour" that they have ostensibly removed. I feel very sorry for those taken in by them who subsequently die of cancer.

Unfortunately despite the placebo effect and/or the power of prayer, religious healings don't necessarily work, and they are too often exploited as a means to get cash off of desperate people (did anyone ever see that Kids in the Hall skit where they had old women delivering packages to supposedly save their sons from dying?). Not every cancer patient who practices the power of positive thinking has a complete remission. For every child not born with cerebral palsy, many others are. Did God love them less?

My problem with prayer is that it is often so self-serving - like a letter to Santa Claus. Please help ME keep my job. Please help ME get that woman. Help me conquer MY enemies. Heal ME. The only Christian prayer that I could ever get my head around if "Thy will be done". That prayer is a surrender to God, a surrender of self, and an acknowledgement that God will do what is best, and it may not be what I think is best for ME at the time. But we all like to think that we are special, somehow the center of the universe, don't we? We all want to be beloved of God, divinely chosen, and believe that what we want is what God wants for us. So how often does anybody pray "Thy will be done" and mean it?

Incidentally, "The Demon-Haunted World" is a great book (although I take issue with Sagan's idea that critical thinking is the sole province of science - I think the humanities teach it just as well).


From: Peace River (no, not actually in the river, silly) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
JCL
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posted 08 October 2001 05:53 PM      Profile for JCL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

Oh well. Life goes on.


From: Winnipeg. 35 days to Christmas yet no snow here. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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Babbler # 214

posted 08 October 2001 06:10 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, it was James "The Amazing" Randi who revealed Popoff (if that is his name, I forget it too all the time) as a fraud.

Randi's foundation offers a million bucks to anyone who can exhibit psychic abilities under scientific scrutiny.

No award has been given to date.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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