babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » culture   » Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays
Jaku
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14801

posted 11 December 2007 06:40 AM      Profile for Jaku     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
this thing about how we handle winter solstice holidays has always bugged me somewhat. i could never really put my finger on it. then I read this piece last week in the Toronto Star. its not a paper i read to often and in fact a friend left this copy over at my place when he was visiting. i finally found it on line.

it expresses my thoughts pretty well hope i do this right


multiculturalism follies


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 11 December 2007 07:01 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I enjoyed the article too. He's right about the "holiday tree" - that was stupid. I remember another article maybe a couple of years back where he argued against such a stupid name by saying that we don't call Hanukkah candles "holiday candelabras".

On the other hand, people should be sensitive that not everyone celebrates Christmas. It's pretty easy for people of Christian background to have disdain for "political correctness" around the holidays when it's not those people affected by the compulsory Christianity of the season.

I just really don't see what the big deal is about saying "Merry Christmas" to people only if you know they celebrate Christmas, and "Happy Holidays" to everyone else. Seriously, why is it such a huge affront to some people?

I have to laugh when I hear the Merry Christmas militants who insist that, in the name of Jesus Christ, and the peace of the season, that they'll fucking well say Merry Christmas to everyone, and fuck anyone who fucking well doesn't fucking like it or doesn't fucking well celebrate it because they're just a bunch of fucking heathens anyway so who gives a fuck what they think or what they celebrate. A very warm, seasonable, charitable attitude, that. That's the Christmas spirit!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 11 December 2007 07:10 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Christmas is a holiday and a season of peace, love, and giving.

I really resent those who try to remove this content of Christmas and replace it with nonsense about Christ, prayer, church, religion, etc.

I support changing the name of Christmas to Xmas, where "X" is a variable and everyone can substitute whatever they wish for it - as long as they support the fundamental notions of peace, love, and giving.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2912

posted 11 December 2007 07:36 AM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't forget to dimension that variable or BASIC will return an ERROR 9.
From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12553

posted 11 December 2007 09:57 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So what is Farber really saying here? Seems to me he is a bit assimilationist. He's right about our multicultural nature but if he's right shouldn't we be sensitive to cultural and faith differences?

Hanukah is not Christmas as much as Farber may seem to want it to be.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12752

posted 11 December 2007 10:05 AM      Profile for Caissa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think Farber conflates the two celebrations. Here is what he says in the article.

Christmas time for the Jewish families in Ottawa also meant Hanukkah. Although not a major Jewish holy day, it is a time when Jews celebrate redemption from religious persecution and for us children it held its own magic.

It wasn't Christmas but the small gifts of silver dollars and Hanukkah dreidels (spinning tops) along with tasty potato latkes (pancakes) always filled our small apartment.


From: Saint John | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jaku
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14801

posted 11 December 2007 10:25 AM      Profile for Jaku     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
farber's view is actually very much opposite what you say petsy. in a rather engaging way he has painted a mosaic of Canada's attempt at being unlike its neighbour to the south.

i also liked the way he explained the jewish feelings around hanukkah (never know how to spell that), there was a jewish lad in my class when i was growing up and while he envied christmas many of us envied him and his family. their celbrations of their holidays was so family centred it made me for one long for that. Christmas is suppose to be about family but i have always found it too much about everything but that. farber's family celebration with his apartment neighbour has a real nice "Canadian" feel to it.


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ibelongtonoone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14539

posted 11 December 2007 10:40 AM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
People who get upset because someone greets them with Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas need to get a life likewise people who get upset if they see or hear the word (Gasp!) Christmas during a public Christmas event also need to get a life. From what I understand the odd time anyone does manage to get worked up about this - it's not minorites with different religous practices but politically connected busybodies with too much time on their hands.
From: Canada | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ibelongtonoone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14539

posted 11 December 2007 10:53 AM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
People should be free to make the holidays as holy or secular as they like. I only wish Christians would realize that it's materialism and comercialism that is destroying the signifigance of the holiday, not a some do-gooder trying to change the traditons of public celebrations of Christmas in Canada. I realize many don't celebrate Christmas in any religous way, including myself but I also don't see any need in changing it to something else, live and let live.
From: Canada | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276

posted 11 December 2007 10:55 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know a family where the father was the heart of their Christmas, forever. He died this past year. His widow and son couldn't imagine putting on Christmas without him.

So they decided to fly for the holidays to a place where they would not even think about Christmas, and be overwhelmed with so many distractions as to not brood on what they had lost.

Las Vegas.

The post-Christian Mecca, I guess.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
J. Arthur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14743

posted 11 December 2007 11:45 AM      Profile for J. Arthur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Both sides of the Christmas debate are at sixes and sevens in my opinion.

For the militant Christmas celebrators, they are too insistent that others will not only wish each other a Merry Christmas, but they must like it too.

For the militant Happy Winter Festival/Holiday types, they're nuts. Honestly, anyone who objects to the display of a Christmas tree in a public place has something seriously wrong with them. Period. And it's true that we don't tell Jewish people to enjoy lighting their holiday candelabra, nor do we refer to Ramadan as the "not-eating season" because, well, that would be insane.

The good thing about Christmas is that ther is such a popular cultural element now, what with Rudolf and Santa and Frosty the Snowman and what not that one can wish people a Merry Christmas and celebrate Christmas without actually subscribing to even the most basic tenents of Christianity. This popularlzing element has not totally happened with Hannukah (except for Adam Sandler's "Hannukah song") and has not at all happened with Ramadan. Kind of hard to celebrate these holidays and be a non-believer.

As for me, I don't particularly care if someone wishes me a Happy Hannukah, a Rockin' Ramadan, or a Kool Kwanzaa. It doesn't offend me because ultimately it is coming from a good place, which is what many of the "Holiday Histrionics" don't seem to get.

[ 11 December 2007: Message edited by: J. Arthur ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Draco
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4885

posted 11 December 2007 12:00 PM      Profile for Draco     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by J. Arthur:
Honestly, anyone who objects to the display of a Christmas tree in a public place has something seriously wrong with them. Period.

There are some public spaces, such as courts and libraries, where I think the need to maintain a neutral (as neutral as possible, anyway) space should override the desire to deck the halls.

[ 11 December 2007: Message edited by: Draco ]


From: Wild Rose Country | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 11 December 2007 12:06 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Seasons Greetings.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 11 December 2007 12:17 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by J. Arthur:
As for me, I don't particularly care if someone wishes me a Happy Hannukah, a Rockin' Ramadan, or a Kool Kwanzaa. It doesn't offend me because ultimately it is coming from a good place, which is what many of the "Holiday Histrionics" don't seem to get.

You're drawing a parallel between minority religions and the dominant religious tradition. You don't mind being wished a "Happy Hanukkah" because you don't have another religion's celebration shoved down your throat every second of every day for two months out of twelve every year.

Pretending that being wished a Happy Hanukkah once in a while is exactly the same as being drowned in Christmas every year is what's "nuts" in my opinion.

And by the way, I don't know anyone who thinks that people who celebrate Christmas shouldn't say "Merry Christmas" to each other. The objection isn't to "Merry Christmas" - the objection is to the assumption that everyone celebrates Christmas, and that people of other religions are constantly being told, both in personal situations and official ones (like in courthouses for instance) that Christian festivities are the ones that count, and Christian greetings are an acceptable way to address people of other religions in a society where Christianity is dominant, and people of other religions have been traditionally ignored, and actively discriminated against.

It's not "histrionic" to suggest that people might want to show some common courtesy and offer the appropriate holiday greeting to people based on what they celebrate. If you don't know, or you have doubts, then just say "happy holidays". What does it cost you?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sven
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9972

posted 11 December 2007 12:39 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This opinion piece from 2004 is one of the better opinion pieces I've read on the subject...
From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
J. Arthur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14743

posted 11 December 2007 01:03 PM      Profile for J. Arthur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Draco:

There are some public spaces, such as courts and libraries, where I think the need to maintain a neutral (as neutral as possible, anyway) space should override the desire to deck the halls.

[ 11 December 2007: Message edited by: Draco ]


I disagree. They should be decorated for the "season" though I'd prefer lights and rudolf and frosty et al to the whole nativity bit.

Chinese New Year is celebrated openly and government officials often place ads for this holiday. Why not Christmas?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ibelongtonoone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14539

posted 11 December 2007 01:28 PM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
J. Arthur, because Chinese New Year is a minority religous holiday and the majority of the population have no problem with public celebrations of minority religions and many non Buddist, non Chinese also enjoy the festivities. Where as Christmas is a holiday celebrated by the majority of the population and a traditon of celebrating it as a community or even as a country has been done since the french and english first arrived here.

So if I understand - the majority should accomodate the minority(even if no one asks for it), by not having any non-secular public celebrations.


From: Canada | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
J. Arthur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14743

posted 11 December 2007 01:41 PM      Profile for J. Arthur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have a hard time believing that Christmas is rammed down anyone's throat.

I have a hard time that non-christian minorities (Asian people, Muslims, Jews) object to Christgmas being publicly celebrated. And, most immigrants seem to not be offended by the holiday, at least there is no outcry that I have observed coming from immigrant communities.

The only people who get offended seem to be athiestic white cultural lefties, and they don't count, because let's face it -- what doesn't offend them?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 11 December 2007 01:53 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
J. Arthur: I have a hard time believing that Christmas is rammed down anyone's throat.

Then don't turn on the TV or you'll find yourself choking on Christmas commercialism.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Draco
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4885

posted 11 December 2007 02:40 PM      Profile for Draco     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by J. Arthur:

I disagree. They should be decorated for the "season" though I'd prefer lights and rudolf and frosty et al to the whole nativity bit.


I don't really see how secondary Christmas symbols are different from primary ones. While it's true that secondary Christmas symbols very often have pagan origins, they are still part of the Christmas religious tradition.

In terms of decorating "for the season", I guess it depends on how you define "the season." There currently isn't any evidence to think that equal attention is given to all of the various religious and non-religious holidays in Canada. How many Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu holidays are observed at our local libraries? When do they endorse celebration of the Solstices and Equinoxes? How many libraries' Pride Week decorations rival their Christmas and Easter collection?

If everything were celebrated (a practical impossibility), it would be less of a specific endorsement of each tradition represented, but still not entirely appropriate in my opinion for institutions whose goal is to be as neutral and welcoming as possible to everyone.

[ 11 December 2007: Message edited by: Draco ]


From: Wild Rose Country | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Draco
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4885

posted 11 December 2007 02:45 PM      Profile for Draco     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:

Then don't turn on the TV or you'll find yourself choking on Christmas commercialism.


Otherwise known as the Sacrement of the Hucking of the Wares. It's the second most sacred part of the festival under siege in the War on Christmas, next only to the Benediction of the Shop Clerk.


From: Wild Rose Country | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sven
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9972

posted 11 December 2007 02:59 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This discussion of Christmas in Canada raises a general question.

If you travel to China, or Iran, or Greece, or Australia, or Brazil, there is a unique cultural “feel” to the country. There are cultural norms (language, dress, food, religion, etc.) that predominate and distinguish those countries from other countries. There’s little tendency to homogenize the unique cultures of those countries with the cultures of other countries. In fact, if all countries were to homogenize their cultures with those of every other country, there would ultimately be a loss of those distinct cultures and of cultural diversity.

What is “Canadian culture”?

[ 11 December 2007: Message edited by: Sven ]


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
skarredmunkey
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11117

posted 11 December 2007 04:51 PM      Profile for skarredmunkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A bill recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith

LOL


From: Vancouver Centre | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ibelongtonoone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14539

posted 11 December 2007 05:55 PM      Profile for Ibelongtonoone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think they meant to say the importance of buying stuff at Christmas.
From: Canada | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
jester
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11798

posted 11 December 2007 06:53 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Most of the traditions of Christmas have nothing to do with Christianity.

The yule log and "Christmas tree" were borrowed from pagan solstice ritual, Santa Claus is a product of the Coca-Cola company and the rest is manufactured as a product of the seasonal merchandising guilt trip.

Christians have no more ownership of these traditions than anyone else. I have my doubts that in the instance that JC was ever a real individual, his birthday falls close to the winter solstice.

It is more likely that Dec 25 was chosen to coincide with the pagans' rockin celebration out of envy.

I truly enjoy the festive season and as a life-long beer-drinking heathen,I hold no animosity toward Christians for appropriating my cultural traditions.


From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 11 December 2007 07:03 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by J. Arthur:
Honestly, anyone who objects to the display of a Christmas tree in a public place has something seriously wrong with them.

All depends who's hanging from it.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
J. Arthur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14743

posted 12 December 2007 11:35 AM      Profile for J. Arthur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This in itself would make a good thread.

Does anyone have any suggestions...?


From: Vancouver | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
jrose
babble intern
Babbler # 13401

posted 12 December 2007 01:06 PM      Profile for jrose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speaking of Christmas Trees, did anyone know that you can rent them?
From: Ottawa | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ward
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11602

posted 13 December 2007 01:05 PM      Profile for Ward     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Were the leftwing atheist bastards to kill a religion as great as the Christian religion, with the promotions of alternate futures, of futures that includes such things as: 'holiday trees' or a 'festivous poles', how then, could this rabble be prevented from, infact, seizing the future?
From: Scarborough | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276

posted 13 December 2007 07:14 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Christmas is a holiday and a season of peace, love, and giving.

I really resent those who try to remove this content of Christmas and replace it with nonsense about Christ, prayer, church, religion, etc.



I know a five-year-old who thinks Baby Santa was born in a stable.

A sensible conclusion. I hope no one straightens her out.

quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
This discussion of Christmas in Canada raises a general question.

If you travel to China, or Iran, or Greece, or Australia, or Brazil, there is a unique cultural “feel” to the country.

What is “Canadian culture”?



Hockey. Especially holiday minor hockey tournaments.

From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 13 December 2007 07:19 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:
I know a five-year-old who thinks Baby Santa was born in a stable.

Is that why I always got shitty presents?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sven
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9972

posted 13 December 2007 07:26 PM      Profile for Sven     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:

Hockey. Especially holiday minor hockey tournaments.

Well, that goes without saying!!

But, seriously, what is "Canadian culture"?


From: Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!!! | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 13 December 2007 07:46 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:

But, seriously, what is "Canadian culture"?

You heard Wilf's 5-year-old. It's agriculture.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jaku
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14801

posted 14 December 2007 12:30 AM      Profile for Jaku     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:

Well, that goes without saying!!

But, seriously, what is "Canadian culture"?



farber's description of how his family celebrated hanukah with their french canadian roman catholic neighbour when he was a young boy and how she in turn celebrated her christmas with them sounded quintessentially canadian to me.

[ 14 December 2007: Message edited by: Jaku ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12553

posted 14 December 2007 02:25 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well that's the problem with Farber's article, its Canadian not in any way Jewish.

Chanukah and Christmas are very different. Isn't it just like us Canadians to believe we can be all things?


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 14 December 2007 03:03 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think he said they were the same. I think his story was one of people respecting each other's traditions and inviting each other to join in.

I don't agree with him, however, when he says that Judeo-Christian privilege is a thing of the past. It most certainly isn't. Maybe Jewish holidays are accommodated these days and there isn't as much prejudice as there used to be against Jews, and that's wonderful. But it's been replaced with extreme prejudice against another minority religion - Muslims. Which Farber didn't mention once in his article.

And he's wrong about the courthouse, too. Sure, have Christmas trees in the town square, I don't care. But they shouldn't be in courthouses. People from minority religions and cultures (I'm thinking Muslims again, but others too) already experience a lot of prejudice and intimidation in our justice system. They shouldn't have to walk into a courthouse and see an official endorsement of the majority religion. Courthouses are supposed to be neutral ground.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 14 December 2007 03:46 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An interesting quote from an old thread

quote:
Originally posted by neoluddite:
Further to that, as a Jew specifically, it is frustrating to have your own religious experiences rolled into that blanket "Judeo-Christian" fuzziness that only Christians seem to be deluded into thinking exists. The co-opting of Jewish scriptures is okay with me, but don't tell me that my religion is really only the first half of "your" bible so there's no need to acknowledge Judaism as a seperate and unique religion. Christians, even progressive ones, are bad at this problem in interfaith settings. We may share a chunk of book, but we don't necessarily read it the same way or come to the same conclusions.

From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12553

posted 15 December 2007 04:44 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle there is much about Farber's article with which I disagree but the fact he didn't mention Islam is not one.

He wrote about his personal experieince, I'm assuming when he grew up there were no Muslims for a reference point. I mean he didn't mention Hindus, or Ba'hai or Bhuddists either.

We can question as I do his personal hypothesis but the fact he didn't mention Muslims is really a red herring,

[ 15 December 2007: Message edited by: Petsy ]


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
ohara
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7961

posted 15 December 2007 09:38 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
An interesting quote from an old thread


Interesting quote for sure. It also erks me that the division of that chunk of the bible is referred to as the "Old" Testament, while the Christian piece is called the "New" Testament. Out with the "Old' and in with the "New"?

I prefer just the Hebrew and Christian canon.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Skinny Dipper
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11459

posted 15 December 2007 11:15 AM      Profile for Skinny Dipper   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy Hannuka even though Hannuka is over for the year. Don't people get annoyed when others say "Happy Hannuka" after the fact? I think it would be like someone saying "Merry Christmas" late January.
From: Ontarian for STV in BC | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
sufjan fjan
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14479

posted 15 December 2007 06:33 PM      Profile for sufjan fjan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Sure, have Christmas trees in the town square, I don't care. But they shouldn't be in courthouses.

what does a fake pine tree with pretty lights have to do with christmas? its about as pagan as it gets. anything that brightens our dreary winters is fine by me. (now if we had glow in the dark nativity scenes in the courthouse, that would be very, very different. crosses, and i would be the first to protest - what should really be taken out of courthouses are all religious texts to swear on)

just my two cents, but christams, with its santa and mistletoe and yuletide, is about as secular as a holiday can get - these are all pagan traditions. i think anyone can put up a tree and celebrate the solicitice on the 25th and not feel like they are participating in a christian holiday. christmas wasn't even a christian holiday for the first 1700 or so years of the religion.


From: ottawa | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
Noah_Scape
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14667

posted 24 December 2007 06:46 PM      Profile for Noah_Scape     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Whatever else Dec 25th is, it is also the primary time of initiation into the 'materialist-consumer' culture for children.

Getting all those presents on one day is a bit overwhelming to a 3yr old, and all the ads and shopping and excitement, as well as whatever stress they see in their parents, will cement the idea that they are celebrating the acquisition and possession of material goods.

It is the ultimate training ground for future shoppers.


From: B.C. | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
jrose
babble intern
Babbler # 13401

posted 27 December 2007 07:53 AM      Profile for jrose     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Whatever else Dec 25th is, it is also the primary time of initiation into the 'materialist-consumer' culture

Or, we could all take Judith Levine's approach and embark on "A Year of Not Spending."


From: Ottawa | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca