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Author Topic: Michael Jackson's "Neverland" raided by cops
Michelle
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posted 18 November 2003 08:42 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
In the United States, investigators conducting a criminal probe have raided the Californian ranch of the King of Pop, Michael Jackson. It's believed as many as 60 police and investigators served the sealed warrant, and they're expected to spend the rest of the day gathering evidence.

From Washington, John Shovelan reports the raids were led by the attorney who was at the centre of a child sex investigation into Jackson 10 years ago.


ABC News


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 18 November 2003 11:55 PM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Millhouse: "do you really think there's such a thing as a soul, Bart?"

Bart: "Naw, it's just something grownups made up to scare kids, like the boogyman, or Michael Jackson."

--- "The Simpsons"
-------------

Bernice: "You gave an aphrodisiac to Duckman?!"

Cornfed Pig: "That's like giving a 45 gallon drum of peanut oil and troop of boy scouts to Michael Jackson....(turns to camera) allegedly."
---"Duckman"

---------------

If Jackson is as innocent as he claims to be on this issue, the lesson is served that he should have confronted the former accusers, and sued every comic who alluded to his pedophilia.

I very much try to ignore these kinds of things in the media, but unless you cut yourself off entirely by sealing yourself in a cave on Mars, there's little hope of escaping it.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 19 November 2003 12:58 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ahem.
From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
'topherscompy
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posted 19 November 2003 01:41 AM      Profile for 'topherscompy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
michael jackson worthy of two threads? why not - the bbc's saying things about him they can't about charles:
quote:
The pop star's lawyer, Brian Oxman, said the search was connected to sexual-abuse allegations brought by a 12-year-old boy.

But Michael Jackson's publicist later said the singer - who was not at home - had no idea what the search was about, and promised full co-operation.

'Two-month inquiry'

Authorities in Santa Barbara did not give reasons for the search, saying only it was part of a criminal investigation.

"At 8.30 am (1630GMT) Santa Barbara sheriff's department and district attorney's office investigators executed a search warrant at the Neverland Ranch in connection with a criminal matter," said sheriff's commander Jeff Meyer.

But Mr Oxman said it involved an allegation of sexual molestation.

"The search warrant indicates there is an accusation by a 12-year-old boy who says that he was molested and the police are seizing information which they think in relevant to that accusation," he said.


or maybe he's trying to jump on the gangsta bandwagon:

quote:
The police raid came on the same day that a greatest hits collection featuring Jackson's new single, One More Chance, was released.

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Tommy_Paine
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posted 19 November 2003 02:33 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sorry Magoo, I think there is a reluctance to give this topic the dignity of being "news".
From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 19 November 2003 10:06 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
... preferring instead, "Culture"?
From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 19 November 2003 11:25 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
If Jackson is as innocent as he claims to be on this issue, the lesson is served that he should have confronted the former accusers, and sued every comic who alluded to his pedophilia.

I very much try to ignore these kinds of things in the media, but unless you cut yourself off entirely by sealing yourself in a cave on Mars, there's little hope of escaping it.


Ha! You tried so hard to ignore it that you posted to this thread twice about it. Way to take the high road, dude.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 19 November 2003 12:00 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Too bad we're never going to see this on Cops.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 19 November 2003 12:58 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A warrant has been issued for the arrest of Michael Jackson, sources say.

I'm trying to picture Michael Jackson starring in "The Fugitive" now.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 19 November 2003 01:04 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is such an endlessly sad story. That's all I can think. I feel sorry for anyone whose culture is this. What a nightmare.
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Michelle
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posted 19 November 2003 01:59 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The reason I posted it in arts and culture is because Michael Jackson is about as pop culture as you're gonna get.

As for people "whose culture" this is - um, it's ours. It's on the front cover of the Toronto Sun today (with the tasteful headline, "Jacko Ranch Raided" or something like that), everyone in Canada has heard of Jackson and he swept Canada with his music as well at the peak of his popularity. People in Canada follow news items with him in them.

If you recognize his name and the newspapers in your society report the sordid stories and you (or at least the majority of people in your society) know his music, then he's your culture too.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 19 November 2003 03:13 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
have a look at the picture of Mikey "Really, I just tucked them in" Jackson that CANOE posted.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/11/18/261474-ap.html


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
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posted 20 November 2003 12:21 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Ha! You tried so hard to ignore it that you posted to this thread twice about it. Way to take the high road, dude.

Yes, but you can only really count the first one, because the other one, like this one, is a meta-post, and not on the subject at sequined gloved hand.

neener neener neener.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
stevepay
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posted 20 November 2003 02:24 AM      Profile for stevepay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What kind of parent leaves there child with micheal jackson..

[ 20 November 2003: Message edited by: stevepay ]


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Tommy_Paine
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posted 20 November 2003 02:28 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A parent in search of movie deal money?
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drgoodword
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posted 20 November 2003 03:46 AM      Profile for drgoodword   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's face it. Anyone who undertakes the radical kind of cosmetic surgery it takes to go from this:

...to this:

...is probably going to have a lot of problems.

As for the upcoming trial, I suspect the DA prosecuting criminal charges against Jackson probably has an airtight case prepared, especially after the fiasco of ten years ago.

If Jackson is unable to beat this in court and goes to jail, it will likely mean the complete end of his career as a music superstar, and will devalue the worth of his past music significantly. The use of his music on radio and other media will likely be an unwritten taboo.

Until the trial it can't really be said whether or not he is a child molester, but if the case is proved in court, than, taken together with past reports, this is likely chronic behaviour for Jackson, and it will be a good thing that a child molester is finally brought to justice, and hopefully brought under a close enough supervision after jail to ensure that he never abuses again.

And, if the pending charges against him are proven, my heart goes out to those poor kids of his. Amidst such wealth and privilege, such an unhealthy environment.


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Tommy_Paine
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posted 20 November 2003 04:42 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Really, I don't know what to believe.

The United States is a funny place where on paper you are allowed to say and do anything, and they brag about that ability, but in fact if you excersize that option, the public has a way of ganging up on one to curtail such expression.

So, yeah, he's one wierd dude. Is he a pedophile? Well, there was that incident from a few years ago. Maybe he bought himself out of trouble. Maybe it was extortion. After having seen the CBC documentary about the media coverage of that incident, there's reasons to back up both views.

Society is wierd. You'd think saying Timothy McViegh's only mistake was picking the Murrah building instead of the New York Times would discredit one for life; but Anne Coulter is still a media darling; being hypocritical on drug use should relagate one to obscurity, but Rush Lumbers on; you'd think the media who relentlessly attacked a President for being a draft dodger wouldn't then get behind people like George W. Bush, Dick Chenney, Newt Gingrich, yadda yadda yadda, but low and behold they did. It's a media where no one bats an eye when a female child wears latex and moans how she wants to be your slave.

So pedophilia ending Michael Jackson's career?

I will believe it, when I see it.

In the mean time, I think I'll just vomit.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
drgoodword
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posted 20 November 2003 05:10 AM      Profile for drgoodword   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The smoking gun has a copy of the sworn declaration of the boy who was associated with the incident ten years ago:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjdec1.html


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Meow
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posted 20 November 2003 11:41 AM      Profile for Meow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i'm pretty sure that this has been posted before....but i'll post it again because its funny...(sad, but funny)A History of Michael Jackson's Face
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skdadl
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posted 20 November 2003 12:21 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
If you recognize his name and the newspapers in your society report the sordid stories and you (or at least the majority of people in your society) know his music, then he's your culture too.

Michelle, this is horsefeathers.

There are a lot of cultures I know a bit about, or quite a bit about, or a lot about that still are not my culture.

I know all about the leather huts in Ulan Bator, for instance, but I would never claim that Mongolian culture is mine.

I understand some of what has made a Michael Jackson a bit more internally than I do Mongolian culture, but his has never been my culture, and pity is really the best reaction I can work up to it. I do feel sorry for him, deeply sorry. I don't think he belongs in jail, but we are too primitive still to know what to do with him.

[ 20 November 2003: Message edited by: skdadl ]


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Timebandit
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posted 20 November 2003 12:25 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's obvious that the man is deeply disturbed, whether he's a pedophile or not. Fame and money have a way of exempting people like Jackson from treatment (which is what I think he really needs), even if some of it is the cause of the mess in the first place.

Like you, skdadl, I feel pity, but it's also mixed with horror. Kind of like passing a gruesome accident on the side of the road.


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Rebecca West
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posted 20 November 2003 01:03 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm less horrified by Jackson than I am by the parents who are pimping their children to him. As for privilege, how many priests who've molested and raped children have seen a criminal conviction against them? Powerful people and institutions still operate with impunity, and children are still viewed as commodities, to be used and exploited, by adults.

I never get used to this shit, and am constantly amazed/revolted by what a sick and fucked-up species we are.

[ 20 November 2003: Message edited by: Rebecca West ]


From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 20 November 2003 01:10 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
R Kelly is still played. As is Gary Glitter.

[ 20 November 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rebecca West
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posted 20 November 2003 02:27 PM      Profile for Rebecca West     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Pop star Gary Glitter has been jailed for four months after admitting to a collection of 4,000 hardcore photographs of children being abused.
Including pictures of children as young as two (my youngest daughter is two). Four months? Woefully inadequate. Jeeze, I don't care what goes on in people's imaginations, but I feel like vomiting when I think about the real children who are being assaulted when those pictures are taken. Possession of those images, in my opinion, is as criminally reprehensible as the creation thereof. Four years wouldn't be long enough.

From: London , Ontario - homogeneous maximus | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 20 November 2003 02:37 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Damn straight.

Artistic Merit? My ass
Freedom of expression? My ass
Creative License? My ass

Paedophille/sicko pervert? Your ass

disclaimer: I am not referring to Rebecca or any other Babbler, unless you posess or make child porn, in which case I am refering to you and wishing that handguns in Canada came with 100 round clips.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
drgoodword
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posted 20 November 2003 03:09 PM      Profile for drgoodword   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by audra estrones:
R Kelly is still played. As is Gary Glitter.

[ 20 November 2003: Message edited by: audra estrones ]


I would say comparison to these two isn't much of a guide as to what could happen to Jackson's career if he is convicted of sexually abusing a child.

R. Kelly was involved with teen girls. I'm not saying this makes it in any way right, but it's still something of a different crime in terms of public perception. And Kelly's core audience is different than Jackson's, and likely hold Kelly to somewhat different standards. It's like when nude photos of Vanessa Williams were published: a number of actresses had experienced similar things around that time and even before, but weren't penalized in the same way.

Gary Glitter's fame is considerably less than Jackson's, and again, his core audience is different, so his conviction isn't as likely to affect the commercial value of his music.

Because Michael Jackson's public image is so closely linked to children, a conviction of this nature will shatter that image, likely taking his career along with it.

I very much doubt a Polanski-like rehabilitation is possible for Jackson--his self-created image and the nature of his alleged crimes are too explosive a mixture.


From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lima Bean
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posted 20 November 2003 03:13 PM      Profile for Lima Bean   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know whether to believe he's guilty or not. And I'm really glad it's not up to me. I feel horrible for the kid(s) involved, and do wonder at the parents just leaving them with him...But I also feel pretty sorry for Mike. He's quite clearly messed up and just seems really strange and sad now.

I can't imagine what will happen to him if he's convicted and sentenced to prison. I don't see how they could possibly send him to regular jail--I think he'd kill himself before going to prison, and if he didn't he may not last long on the inside.

I just really wonder...


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Michelle
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posted 20 November 2003 03:30 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nobody should know whether to believe he's innocent or guilty yet. He hasn't had a trial, and I don't trust the National Enquirer (or the Toronto Sun, the northern version) to give all the necessary details.

I'll say this though - I feel sorry for whomever the "Marcia Clark" is going to be for this case. You couldn't pay me enough to be a prosecutor for a high-profile case like this where it's likely going to be televised and where the defendant has a "dream team" defence that could make a jury think the sky is green.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 20 November 2003 04:32 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have nothing to add, but the CBC headline might raise an exasperated chuckle...

quote:
Pop superstar Michael Jackson turned himself into police Thursday afternoon ...

From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 20 November 2003 04:54 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The surgery to do that must have lasted hours.
From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 20 November 2003 04:57 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One shudders to think. Particularly as they don't say how many police.

Oh, dear Mother Corp. Why must you toy with my emotions so?


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Doug
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posted 20 November 2003 07:48 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The mug shot!

Good thing he stopped to put on makeup first.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
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posted 20 November 2003 08:18 PM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]he may not last long on the inside. /QUOTE]
He could always get some Viagra.

From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
stevepay
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posted 20 November 2003 10:06 PM      Profile for stevepay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think he is guilty, just a little strange but there should be no law against that..
From: Vancouver | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
clearview
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posted 20 November 2003 10:15 PM      Profile for clearview     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One thing's for certain, as I heard a pundit say (who just finished commenting on how out of touch with the real world MJ seems to be): He's about to get a serious dose of reality.

ED: clarity

[ 20 November 2003: Message edited by: clearview ]


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Marc
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posted 21 November 2003 12:15 AM      Profile for Marc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The police have been fooled. That HAS to be a figure from a wax museum!
From: Calgary, AB | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 21 November 2003 10:57 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am genuinely curious about the CMP field they left blank. Think it's short for "complexion"?

I'm not making tasteless jokes. I really wonder.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mighty brutus
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posted 21 November 2003 11:13 AM      Profile for mighty brutus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Don't you think he looks like "the Joker?"
From: Beautiful Burnaby, British Columbia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
rob.leblanc
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posted 21 November 2003 11:18 AM      Profile for rob.leblanc     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"You know what, I don't care, I'm going out on a limb because I've been saying this for months and I could care less about what the media or anybody else thinks about this. Folks--I think he's a little weird."

-Jon Stewart

Personally, I don't know if he's guilty or not. I do know, however that Jackson is the easiest target when it comes to the press because he's kind of, well.......weird by society's standards. It's so easy for the parents of a kid who stayed over at Jackson's place (as said earlier, allowed by parents who want thier kids to be stars) to say that they were abused just to gain further recognition (mind you, that's an odd way of getting such recognition)

Like I said, I don't know if he's guilty or not, but I wouldn't be suprised one bit if he is found guilty. And I'll be honest, even though I was a youngster, I wouldn't have been suprised if he was found guilty ten years ago.


From: Where am I? Where are YOU? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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posted 21 November 2003 03:03 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Like Audra, I took note of the complexion field being left blank, and the race field saying "B".

Do you think they discussed beforehand how to fill the ledger?

I can't believe he's only 5'11 and weights only 120. All that tree climbing must burn off the minimal calories he gets from whatever Atkins, South Beach, Jenny Craig type diet he's on.

I also can't believe the cops let him sass them like that. "I'll turn myself in when I feel like it." What-ever!


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 21 November 2003 03:22 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I do know, however that Jackson is the easiest target when it comes to the press because he's kind of, well.......weird by society's standards.

I think he also hangs it out there by freely admitting that he likes to have sleepover parties with little boys and tuck them in. If there isn't a law against 45 year old men crawling into bed with boys who aren't their son, then there should be.

Give me any other situation in which mega-millionaires are being accused of a crime like this, especially after having made it clear that they'll make a big cash payout, and I'd give the benefit of my doubt to the accused, but in this case it's practically impossible. The best I can give him, besides pity in the truest sense, is the faint hope that he's so totally fucked up that he can't possibly understand what's wrong with what he does. It won't help the boys, and it might not keep him out of cell block A, but at least it might offer a less repugnant explanation.

quote:
... and if he didn't he may not last long on the inside.

The self-evidence of this actually made me laugh! If he ends up sharing a cell with Bubba-who-don't-wear-a-rubba, then high-speed cameras couldn't capture how long he won't last! Literally, the police officers who drop him off at the prison might as well just wait outside.


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
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posted 21 November 2003 03:37 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used to like the Jackson 5, but I've never been a fan of Michael Jackson's music. I quite hated the "Thriller" years.

He's a first-class whacko.

That said, I don't know if we ought to assume he's guilty of the charges. I saw a long documentary about him last summer. He seems to me to be someone whose childhood was criminally taken away from him, who has lived a bizarre existence for most of his life, and is now desperate to find a childhood he never had.

That doesn't make him a pedophile.

I wonder if a lot of what he's now going through is related to his being a successful entertainer, and a successful black entertainer, and a successful black entertainer who tries to appear white.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 22 November 2003 03:01 AM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not a huge fan of Michael's music, but I believe that he is one of the most innovative pop dancers of my time. He has an incredible sense of rythm and a great sense of his own choreography since childhood.

I agree that someone that messed with his face like that must have a lot of issues, like hating himself for one. He had a horrible childhood, was pimped to perform by his father and abused by same.

I have no idea if he's guilty. I really don't think I'll ever know for sure because there is such prejudice surrounding him because of his eccentricity that he'll never get a fair trial. I found his relating to the children in that documentary to be genuine, but then again, he's a performer and this could be acting.

If he has molested children, then that's reprehensible and he should be locked up. If this is a case, I still acknowledge his contribution to modern music as I acknowledge other f#$%$# up artists. Not all artists are good people and this does not invalidate their work. I might not purchase if, but I cannot ignore their talent. That to me would be criminal.


From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3838

posted 22 November 2003 03:48 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
He seems to me to be someone whose childhood was criminally taken away from him, who has lived a bizarre existence for most of his life, and is now desperate to find a childhood he never had.

I've always wondered why it is that Michael Jackson suffered such intense emotional damage as a result of his child stardom, whereas Stevie Wonder, on the other hand, turned out to be a relatively balanced guy. They both, after all, became superstars at about the same age (11-12).

quote:
I can't believe he's only 5'11 and weights only 120

Yeah... is he an anorexic on top of everything else? I mean, I'm 5'10 and 160, and I'm not exactly chunky.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
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posted 22 November 2003 05:58 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That picture in the Canoe.ca page is pretty horrifying.

Germane Jackson is correct when he referred to brother Michaels legal trouble as a modern day lynching. Its a little difficult to make the case in the sense of racism in that Michael seems to be trying his hardest to become white. Id say this modern day lynching has more to do with the traditionalist conservatives trying to restore some dignity to their nation which they believe is being stolen from them by people like this freakish man boy girl thing fish corrupting the youth of today.

Guilt or innocence will have little do with this public trial. Its about who wins and who loses.


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 22 November 2003 07:21 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bah, media hype, and Germaine Jackson is as bad as the rest of them. I couldn't care less about the speculation. If this is a criminal matter, then due process should take care of this...my problem is doubting whether due process is possible any longer in circus-like celebrity trials (...since OJ, I'm on firm ground here). I was always unsatisfied with how the previous case had ended (...had I been Michael Jackson and wanted to be exonerated, I would have gone to trial...what was up with that 'out of court' settlement?). If MJ is innocent, fine. If he's guilty, he's doubly guilty lying, power abuse, and the subversion of justice.

...And, to be blunt, I think adults sleeping with children who are not their own is innapropriate enough. Someone should have given MJ better advice on this, at the very least.


From: Qubec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
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posted 23 November 2003 10:02 AM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You have way more faith in the American legal system than I.

Rush Limbaugh will get a walk were Chong gets jail time for selling online has pipes.


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 23 November 2003 10:18 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
An interesting twist to this case:

In a news snippet I caught last night, we heard that there is a bad divorce involved here. If I interpreted correctly, the father of the boy who is considered the victim is after his estranged wife, the boy's mother, for being irresponsible about the boy -- or something.

If that is the case, then to me, all bets are off. If Jackson is facing parents involved in a custody battle, then he should walk. I'd throw the case out right now.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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posted 23 November 2003 12:28 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pamela Ribon's letter to Michael Jackson.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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Babbler # 3790

posted 23 November 2003 09:23 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
WRT the custody battle, that was the case with the previous victim as well. Parents were seperated/divorcing.

Alleged kiddy predators like Michael Jackson tend to pray on the vulnerable.

I'd say cancer + divorce = mad vulnerability.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
stevepay
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4467

posted 24 November 2003 12:03 AM      Profile for stevepay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
it sad all the sick things people say about micheal jackson, for he is the most kind hearted, and all around good person you'll ever meet in your life..if the world had more micheal jacksons it would be a much better place to live..The man lives to bring happyness to millions, I wish I could be more like micheal .All these people that have tried to disgrace his name are going to burn in hell....
From: Vancouver | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Smith
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posted 24 November 2003 02:00 AM      Profile for Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That describes Michael Jackson in the mid-'80s, maybe. I can't think of anything particularly wonderful he's done in the last ten years.
From: Muddy York | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
stevepay
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Babbler # 4467

posted 24 November 2003 02:04 AM      Profile for stevepay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The neverland ranch brings joy to thousands of kids every year...
From: Vancouver | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
'topherscompy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2248

posted 24 November 2003 06:35 AM      Profile for 'topherscompy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
catholic church confers sainthood upon michael jackson

quote:
"I know it's unusual to grant sainthood to someone who is still alive and who isn't even Catholic," said Cardinal Ratzinger, "But when we took a look at his record of personal ministry to young boys with soft skin and supple bodies we all said, 'He's one of us.' And I think it is fitting that Saint Michael will be the patron saint of plastic surgeons and child molesters."
...
"I'm really glad we fast-tracked Saint Michael's canonization," Cardinal Ratzinger added. "The Episcopals were just this close to making him a bishop."

From: gone | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 24 November 2003 06:40 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Alleged kiddy predators like Michael Jackson tend to pray on the vulnerable.



........and parents battling over custody have been known to do fabricate some pretty awful accusations........

Personally, going with my gut, from what I've read about other pedophiles in the news, "Neverland Ranch" fits the pattern of a pedophile who has all the latest and coolest toys for the kids to play with.

On the other hand, if you were a parent trying to get custody, and you were going to fabricate something to get your way, what better target than Jackson?

We'll have to wait for the evidence to speak.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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Babbler # 478

posted 24 November 2003 08:56 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Precisely.

On two grounds, this case should be thrown out:

1. What sane person is ever going to consider the parents trustworthy witnesses?

2. There's no place nowhere that Michael Jackson can get a fair trial -- as this thread evidences.

The charges should be dropped; and Jackson should get a tough new personal adviser to save him from himself.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'topherscompy
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Babbler # 2248

posted 24 November 2003 09:28 AM      Profile for 'topherscompy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i don't think being a celebrity should absolve someone of criminal charges. if people have a pre-determined opinion about michael jackson, they shouldn't be jurors in his case. but california is a big state. i'm sure they can find a dozen...

and maybe the parents are bad witnesses, or even greedy bastards, but he's been arrested on serious charges. i think more than just some news snippets should decide his guilt or innocence. and if it turns out he is innocent, the parents should be charged with making a false accusation.

and as for news snippets, i've heard the boy's family lawyer say there is no civil lawsuit planned, they don't want his money, they want jacko in prison.

but we'll probably get to see for ourselves on cnn's oj-style coverage of the trial. (oh that's one thing i'm sure of)


From: gone | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Puetski Murder
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Babbler # 3790

posted 24 November 2003 02:26 PM      Profile for Puetski Murder     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would love to see a jury of Michael Jackson's 'peers'.

I always thought Winona's jury was badly selected because more than a few of those jurors had worked with her in movies and stuff.

But is there a peer for Michael Jackson? Does he have 12 family members?

I heartily agree that it is unlikely he'll get a fair trial. Though, for all the people that have had unfair trials, Michael Jackson is the least sympathetic.

I always wondered why I never spied any girls in Michael Jackson's kid entourages. I guess Wendy was kind of a downer in Peter Pan.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
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posted 24 November 2003 02:47 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
On two grounds, this case should be thrown out:

1. What sane person is ever going to consider the parents trustworthy witnesses?


But we allow parents such as these to testify all the time, including (obviously) at custody hearings. We allow mom or dad to accuse dad or mom of using drugs, molesting the kids, beating the kids, etc. This time the accusation is aimed at a third party, but why would they be any less credible because of that?

quote:
2. There's no place nowhere that Michael Jackson can get a fair trial -- as this thread evidences.

Perhaps it's time some Amish did their civic duty.


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 25 November 2003 01:16 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1993 Affadavit re: Michael Jackson
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
timbit00093
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 26 November 2003 03:35 AM      Profile for timbit00093        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
thriller rocked!
but i feel so sorry for the children. he looks sooo scary!

From: Calgary | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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posted 26 November 2003 05:31 AM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Originally posted by beluga2:
quote:
I've always wondered why it is that Michael Jackson suffered such intense emotional damage as a result of his child stardom, whereas Stevie Wonder, on the other hand, turned out to be a relatively balanced guy. They both, after all, became superstars at about the same age (11-12).

The difference would be in the parenting. Apparantly, Michael's dad was physically and sexually abusive to his kids as well as selling their childhood down the road. Maybe Stevie had a loving and supportive family. I don't know, but he seems to be a nice man.

Abuse is always passed on from generation to generation. Unless it is stopped before it begins in the next generations, it is almost impossible to correct - whether you are the abused or the abuser. This is especially true for people who abuse others sexually.

Originally posted by Hinterland:

quote:
..And, to be blunt, I think adults sleeping with children who are not their own is innapropriate enough.

I'm not sure if it's always innapropriate or not. I cared for my neices and nephews during summer holidays - all 5 of them along with my own 3. They were treated as my own, if they had a nightmare or were scared, I let them crawl in bed with me (sometimes us), after I got dressed and went and got them. After they were comforted and fell asleep, I would carry them back to their own beds. If a child was sleeping over as a friend, I would comfort them by sitting on their bed and singing to them, talking etc. until they were OK.

[ 26 November 2003: Message edited by: windymustang ]


From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
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posted 26 November 2003 07:55 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't like the idea that parents involved in a custody dispute cannot be credible witnesses when their children are being abused.

If that were a generally accepted principle, and abusers could get away with abusing kids whose parents were going through separations and custody issues, then I guess it would be open season on our children, wouldn't it?

Just because parents are going through custody disagreements doesn't mean they're bad parents. Some parents are even dragged into custody disputes with their exes without their agreement. If anyone told me I wasn't a "credible witness" to an abuse that happened to my son because I was going through a separation and custody dispute with my ex, and that charges should be dropped against someone who sexually assaulted my little boy simply because I was going through a bitter separation, I'd be furious.

[ 26 November 2003: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 26 November 2003 08:05 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:
I wonder if a lot of what he's now going through is related to his being a successful entertainer, and a successful black entertainer, and a successful black entertainer who tries to appear white.

...or a successful black entertainer who tries to appear white by mutilating himself with repeat plastic surgery, fondles himself repeatedly during concerts with many minors in attendance, and thinks it's okay to sleep with little boys who aren't his own when they come to his ranch. I don't think it's just a successful black entertainer thing.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 28 November 2003 01:11 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
another perspective
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
windymustang
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Babbler # 4509

posted 28 November 2003 03:45 AM      Profile for windymustang     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow, she said almost exactly how I feel. The questions about him changing from a beautiful little black boy to an alien looking notman. This has always saddened me.

I still am not convinced that he molested those boys. The probability is very high though, so will have to see what comes out in court.

I also understand where the black writer is coming from...how his choices have affected black culture, and how white culture has affected black's choices.

It's a very well spoken article and it would be good for it to be read or presented at his trial...if this is what they focus on.

Thanks LTJ.


From: from the locker of Mad Mary Flint | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 28 November 2003 11:41 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The revelation of the tape comes as The Associated Press reported that the family of the child was involved in two earlier cases that involved allegations of abuse: a lawsuit in which the family said they were battered by mall security guards, and a divorce fight in which the father pleaded no contest to spousal abuse and child cruelty.J.C. Penney Co. paid the boy's family $137,500 in November 2001, to settle a lawsuit alleging security guards beat the boy, his mother and his brother in a parking lot after the boy left the store carrying clothes that hadn't been paid for, court records found by the AP show.

interesting.


From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1275

posted 28 November 2003 01:58 PM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The probability is very high though, so will have to see what comes out in court.

I actually think the probability might be rather low.
Tragic, though, that Jackson is so utterly and completely divorced from reality. He doesn't understand that his behaviour with other people's children is entirely inappropriate, even if innocent.

quote:
The danger for us is that we will judge you by your appearance. The danger for you is that you have set up a situation, with your reckless behavior around your own children and others', that we cannot help but judge.
Amen, Farai Chideya

[ 28 November 2003: Message edited by: Lard tunderin' jeesus ]


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
stevepay
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4467

posted 28 November 2003 08:02 PM      Profile for stevepay     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
it's not jackson fault that his skin is pale white, He has a skin disorder that has made him look this way, he all so can not go out in the sun or he will hurt himself.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 09 December 2003 11:34 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A confidential investigation by Los Angeles police and child welfare officials concluded earlier this year that allegations Michael Jackson sexually abused a cancer-stricken boy were "unfounded," according to an internal government memo obtained by The Smoking Gun.

quote:
The probe's findings were based, in large part, on interviews with the alleged victim, his two siblings, and the boy's mother. According to the memo, when the child was questioned in February by a social worker assigned to the Sensitive Case Unit of L.A.'s Department of Children & Family Services (DCFS), he "denied any form of sexual abuse" by Jackson and said that he never "slept in the same bed as the entertainer." While not specifically named in the DCFS memo, the 45-year-old Jackson is referred to repeatedly as "the entertainer."

The memo notes that the boy, now 14, and his 12-year-old brother--who also denied sexual abuse--expressed "a fondness for the entertainer and stated they enjoyed visiting his home, where they would often ride in the park, play video games, and watch movies." The pair's sister, now 17, told a social worker that she accompanied the boys on "sleepovers at the entertainers home," but had "never seen anything sexually inappropriate between her brothers and the entertainer."

The children's mother told investigators that Jackson was "like a father to the children and a part of her family." While acknowledging that her son "has slept in the same room as the entertainer," the woman claimed "they did not share a bed. The entertainer would sleep on the floor," according to the November 26 memo.



From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 13 June 2005 04:51 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay the jury has come to a conclusion on this and as soon as Michael gets to the court it will be read.

My opinion is he will be found not guilty of child molestation and guilty of contributing to juvenille deliquency.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 14 June 2005 08:33 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, he's not guilty. Now we can move on to more important questions:

Is he a vampire?


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

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