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Author Topic: SUV
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 05 May 2001 09:23 AM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Sport Utility Vehicle. Love it or hate it
Feel like raggin' on the SUV? This is the place to do it! Please share your feelings about these tanks with me.

[ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: Pimji ]


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2

posted 07 May 2001 10:58 AM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know that carrot feels guilty when she's driving her parents' SUV.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cosmorific
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Babbler # 33

posted 07 May 2001 12:14 PM      Profile for Cosmorific        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My parents own a Subaru Outback. They live in the 'burbs. I really don't see the need.
From: Right here, right now | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 07 May 2001 10:40 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I know how carrot feels. I must confess that I have an oil-burning furnace, which is costing my family a fortune, thanks in part to the SUV. It is very hard to shift away from over 100 years of fossil fuels however we know more now than we did then, this why I am amazed at the level of non thought that goes into buying and maintaining big vehicles.

I feel it is a far better thing to feel guilty and bad for participating in an activity that goes against our consciousness rather than being ignorant to the damage that these beasts deal out to other motorists, the environment and fuel prices.
The price of awareness is the “ I’m doing something wrong feeling”. It gives us a place to start to change.
The big steel bumper racks on the front of an SUV are at the same height as the head and shoulders of people that drive normal cars. When a normal passenger car gets broad sided by one of these things it’s lights out.
Do I sound pious and self-righteous? I am on this topic.
The smaller SUVs vehicles, like the Outback or the Rav 4 or the Honda SRV, aren’t quite what I had in mind. They are pale in comparison to the Ford Expedition and Explorer, The Yukon XLT and the myriad of mini vans and gargantuan pick up trucks. Most of which are used only for carrying the groceries from the drive in shopping mall.


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gayle
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Babbler # 37

posted 08 May 2001 09:50 AM      Profile for Gayle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The surge in popularity of SUVs and other large vehicles is being blamed for the recent hugeass hike in gas prices. It's nearly a dollar a litre here. T

hey burn more, which creates more demand at the pumps, which turns into higher prices for the rest of us who only fill up every two weeks.


Sigh.


From: Cape Breton, Nova Scotia | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Trout Bum
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posted 09 May 2001 11:37 AM      Profile for The Trout Bum     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My dad and I have an suv, but unlike most owners, we need it. The clearance is vital for getting into some of our favorite fishing spots and hikes.
From: Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Princess Denise
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posted 09 May 2001 12:57 PM      Profile for Princess Denise     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SUVs are almost as bad as the commercials that advertise them.

If I see one more tv ad or billboard which celebrates the SUVs ability to help us experience nature I think I will have a fit.

Obviously SUVs kill nature - fossil fuels, gas emissions, etc.

Car companies equating SUVs with a love of the environment is yet another example of the corporate world employing contradictory images to rationalize the use of their products.

In addition to assuaging the potential guilt of the brainwashed consumer, equating the SUV (or any other harmful, generally unnecessary product, which becomes desirable due to consumer culture's relentless effort to create sick status symbols for the purpose of profit) also subverts the messages of people who actually care about the issues the corporate rhetoric appropriates (in this case enviromentalists, earth lovers etc.)

The SUV is inextricable from the corporate culture that it has come to symbolize.

I hate corporate culture and therefore I hate SUVs!!!!!


From: peterborough | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
wagepeace
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Babbler # 114

posted 09 May 2001 01:46 PM      Profile for wagepeace     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I suspect that as the price for gasoline continues to rise, the popularity of SUV's will decline.

I am old enough to remember the energy crisis of the late 1970's and the lines of cars at the stations.

That energy crisis spurned the development of the compact hatchback car (chevette, rabbit, omni, pinto, bobcat) and caused Chrysler to go bankrupt ( well, very nearly - they needed a US government loan to keep them afloat).

At that time, the big three were producing what we affectionately remember as "boats" - (cordoba, newport, marquis, custom 500, parisienne, etc).

Chrysler saved it's bacon by creating the K-car in 1980 and the rest is automotive history. The current SUV fanaticism, an almost exclusively male domain will die out and those who have spent upwards of $50,000.00 on their 4WD behemoths will find that there is no market for used gas guzzlers.

Can anyone say $50,000.00 lawn ornament?

The interesting thing is to wonder what forms of transportation will come up next?

[ May 09, 2001: Message edited by: wagepeace ]


From: In a fog and on anti-psychotics | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
NP
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Babbler # 226

posted 09 May 2001 02:03 PM      Profile for NP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My father is an executive at a Calgary firm, while my mother and I are both students at the University. Together the three of us share a 1987 Toyota which is fuel efficient and reliable. My father and I take public transit to get downtown to work and the car only gets used for long trips and pick ups.

I see NO need for anyone to buy an SUV or truck unless:
1)They are a farmer, welder, or labourer with many tools etc.
2)They carpool and use the added space regularly.

By my own estimate, less than 15% of the population fits into this category.


From: The city that rhymes with fun | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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Babbler # 554

posted 09 May 2001 03:37 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Living in Ottawa, I really really really want a vehicle with 4 wheel drive. I don't drive much since I take the bus most of the time. When I do drive, it tends to be a long-distance trip where public transit doesn't go. In the winter, I really crave 4WD. But I don't want an SUV. I don't need all that cargo space and I certainly don't need that massive engine.

Why don't car manufacturers put 4WD into smaller cars?! I'd certainly buy a 4WD Escort or Cavalier. Only Subaru makes a smaller 4WD car, and it's frikkin' expensive.

Look at the Paris-Dakar rally. Most of the competitors drive small hatch-backs. If SUVs are so great, why don't they win the big rally races?

Anybody remember the AMC Eagle? That was a great car. A 4WD hatchback. It had better clearance than most SUVs do today! Many of them are still on the road. How many new cars today will still be functional in 20 years?


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 09 May 2001 09:26 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speaking of SUVs, I have to say that I have never had a desire to own one, and were one to be given to me, I would instantly sell it and get a car.

My former boss drives a BIIIIIG Yukon Denali. He's almost never with anybody else in the truck, and he expenses $250 for gas. Christ, what a waste.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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posted 09 May 2001 10:23 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Chrysler was supposed to have a gas/electric hybrid version of the Durango out by now. Market research indicated that it wouldn't sell very well, so it's on hold. Or so I've heard.
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bobcat
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posted 30 May 2001 05:01 PM      Profile for Bobcat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just joined, which explains this late posting on one of my most unfavourite topics. If you live in a remote area with bad sideroads, fine, get a SUV. If you're not and like to power trip, not fine. I think most SUVs are bought for this reason. Don't you love it when the dolt in one behind you all but climbs up your back bumper with the thing so all you see is a MONSTROUS GRILLE in your rear view mirror? Arrrgh!
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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Babbler # 554

posted 30 May 2001 05:12 PM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Even if you live off in the country, you shouldn't NEED an SUV. What you need is 4WD, which should be made available on smaller cars.

The true benefit of an SUV is the cargo space, not the 4WD. If you need that much cargo space, then fine.


From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bobcat
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posted 30 May 2001 05:36 PM      Profile for Bobcat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Agreed, I see your point. My personal choice would be the "little wagons" like the 4-cylinder Corollas that Toyota used to make, but with 4-wheel drive for bad roads.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
audra trower williams
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Babbler # 2

posted 30 May 2001 06:15 PM      Profile for audra trower williams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Has everyone checked out the "how to make an SUV ad" animation up on rabble right now? It's supergreat.
From: And I'm a look you in the eye for every bar of the chorus | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 30 May 2001 07:33 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I drive a Honda Civic LX. We also live outside Ottawa in what I would call a rural residential area. One of the best things I did was to get a trailer hitch and a 4'x8' trailer. I can carry way more crap on my trailer than any SUV. It is great for carring plywood , bricks old brush and garbage. Not to mention the fact that it costs a fraction of what it costs to drive one of those tanks.
If people have lots of extra cash to spend on a vehicle I would say by a Beamer or a small sports car instead.

From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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Babbler # 554

posted 31 May 2001 10:53 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One of my favourite car ads was for Volvo. It had a picture of a Volvo turbo station wagon, and next to it was a Lamborghini with a U-Haul trailer. I think that was the first ad that started to promote Volvo as "sexy".
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 01 June 2001 09:34 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is a great link and message board here all about the SUV blight. It's excellent - I spent a long time reading the site and the message area (so very web addicted am I).

Just a response to a couple of earlier posts: Carpooling is not a good reason for an SUV in the city - get a minivan - they have 7 seats and are better on gas - not as good as compact cars, but if you're carpooling it's understandable.

Most farmers I know (which admittedly isn't many, but there are a few) use pick-up trucks for transporting stuff. Professionals with lots of tools (like mechanics, computer repair people, etc.) could use those vans with empty backs - they have much more storage space than SUV's, and again are better on gas.

As for outbacking - well, I don't have much experience on that one, but I would be willing to bet that most of those Forest Hill folks in Toronto with a BMW SUV parked in the driveway aren't going camping in it on weekends - they are in pristine condition, not a scratch anywhere.

Considering that almost every "legitimate" SUV use can be more efficiently done with other vehicles that use less fuel, SUV's are in the vast majority of cases a status symbol/penis extension.

(ducking and running)


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
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Babbler # 554

posted 01 June 2001 10:14 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A minivan uses less gas than an SUV? That surprises me.
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 01 June 2001 07:33 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like to make the joke that the most offroading any SUV driver has ever done is accidentally hitting the gravel shoulder on a freeway.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bobcat
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posted 06 June 2001 05:31 PM      Profile for Bobcat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, and my windshield caught it all.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 06 June 2001 08:24 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We are all bugs on the windshield of life.
From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 06 June 2001 11:54 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mediaboy: apparently minivans do get better gas mileage, the reason being that they are passenger cars and therefore subject to emissions and gas efficiency laws, whereas SUV's are considered to be trucks and commercial vehicles, so they are not subject to the same standards.

This is information I got from a few other websites, and they say they got their information from car manufacturers (re: gas mileage for SUV's, cars, and minivans), insurance companies, and regulators. I didn't do the research myself aside from surfing some pretty cool protest sites.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Darren Stewart
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posted 14 June 2001 11:37 AM      Profile for Darren Stewart     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
SUV's, or Shopping Utility Vehicles due to their main use, are one of the most offensive vehicles I see on the road. As if their emmissions were not reason enough for my deep seeded hatred they're a danger to pedestrian and motorist alike.
Now they have turned into a status symbol by crafty "greenwashing" advertisers who have somehow linked SUV's and a love for the outdoors. Suburbanites wanting to paint themselves as something their not, feel that they can convince others of their outdoorsy nature by draping themselves in MEC clothing and firing up the Expedition. To tell the truth in my SUV observations I have yet to see a muddy one indicating backwoods use(excluding company vehicles on job sites).
So basically they suck. Having an emmission rate of almost twice as much as mid size auto's (manufacturers got around emmissions standards by having SUV's classed as light truck)
and exemplifying our keeping-up-with-the Jonses over consuming lifestyles, the SUV has embedded itself as a status sybol for self esteem lackers everywhere. Hopefully as gas prices rise these losers will move back to pot bellied pigs or whatever the new flavour of the week may be.
If anybody feels pro-active and wants to let SUV owners know about their irresponsible behavior, check out www.changingtheclimate.com. You can pick up some bumperstickers and go big game SUV hunting in a neighbourhood near you.

From: Halifax | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Victor Von Mediaboy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 554

posted 14 June 2001 11:49 AM      Profile for Victor Von Mediaboy   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle: Well cut off my legs and call me Peggy! I always thought minivans were also classified as light trucks. I've actually learned something today!
From: A thread has merit only if I post to it. So sayeth VVMB! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 14 June 2001 05:28 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
mediaboy: Hey, don't take my word for it (starting to feel insecure)...I just got the information off changingtheclimate.com, so you would have to verify whether that's accurate. But I guess it makes sense in a way - passenger vans are made for passengers and are therefore personal vehicles, whereas SUV's are SUPPOSED to be for cargo with all the room in the back (even though the "cargo" usually consists of just soccer equipment and costco purchases)...

I wouldn't have so much of a problem with SUV's if they would just make them FUEL EFFICIENT (although I do think they are unsafe to other cars when they get into accidents). It's possible to make them more fuel efficient, but when it's not regulated why would the car companies bother?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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posted 14 June 2001 06:22 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"You can pick up some bumperstickers and go big game SUV hunting in a neighbourhood near you."

Hey! You might be onto something there.
Now that I think about it, why stop at SUVs?
Think of the other vehicals that pollute the air. And those people who have the airconditioning running on moderate days. Or leaving lights on all day. I could print up a snappy sticker for them too. HEY! I just thought of something else. For all those people who sit around on computers all day sucking up the juice and funding those corporate slave drivers down in Silicon Valley would sure feel sorry and repent if I wrote a little bot that would email everyone in the outlook address book and tell them to go fuck themselves cause you aren't going to help pollute the environment with useless wasting of energy and then load an endless loop into memory that only will dump what's in the next memory segment and fill the screen with the repeated message, "Go out for a walk slacker".

Thanks for the idea!


From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jared
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Babbler # 803

posted 14 June 2001 06:33 PM      Profile for Jared     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Next time anyones in Vancouver, check out the vehicles at the intersection of 4th Ave & Burrard St in the heart of Kitsilano - talk about SUV jamboree. As a true hater of SUVs I'm usually not too discriminating about which brand is worse, but whenever I see one of the Mercedes kind, nausea overwhelms me. If I'm crossing the street and one of these beasts of the hyperindulgent is stopped at the light, I try to give the driver an incredulous "what's wrong with you" look.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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Babbler # 490

posted 14 June 2001 07:14 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mercedes, Cadillac and Lincoln SUVs are just wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

It's one thing to have a Yukon truck; it's another to drive a friggin' Mercedes SUV.

Shit, if I had a Mercedes, it'd be a CAR, not a big huge gashog.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 14 June 2001 10:05 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Slick Willy: It pains me to admit it, but you have a good point.

I don't have an air conditioner, and I don't use lights much in my apartment because I have lots of windows. But you got me on the computer thing, that's for sure...

Only thing is, people with SUV's do all those things AND drive SUV's. So I will continue to sit perched on my high horse...


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 14 June 2001 10:32 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"A lot of refiners are nervous," said David Becker, energy derivatives trading manager at Citibank NA in New York. "They would like to see demand higher."

There we have it in black and white. SUV's=high bank balance and low intelligence


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
alexandra
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posted 14 June 2001 11:48 PM      Profile for alexandra     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm just new to this site... is anyone still chatting about SUV's?
From: ottawa | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 15 June 2001 12:49 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yup. Join in!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Slick Willy
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Babbler # 184

posted 15 June 2001 12:28 PM      Profile for Slick Willy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem isn't SUVs. The problem is the lifestyle we promote. Air quality is not important as it is relevent to people. People are surplus (a glut on the market if you will) and so the things that affect people are of little concern. In Toronto there are millions of people. When one dies there are a few people who miss them. When a person dies for a reason that could easily have been prevented then there is an kneejerk outcry of emotion and some politician, capitalizing on the situation will get infront of a camera and give a nice feel good speach and strike a committee to "look into the problem". Of course nothig will be done because the "cure" is not a very popular one. The reason that it isn't popular is because as a society, we are lazy, greedy, and selfcentered. As we all should know by now you can't make someone change. They must decide to change themselves. And so we will continue to see people drive to work alone in their car and sucking up as much fossil fuel as they can repeating to themselves those little phrases to jusify it. More will die due to respiratory failure and more speeches will be made. Now you can drive to a protest and harp about it all ou want or you can stop using fossil fuels and dry up the demand for it. I have a good idea which one will be most effective.
From: Hog Heaven | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pimji
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 228

posted 15 June 2001 08:58 PM      Profile for Pimji   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Economic and legislative pressure will also change public behaviour. Unfortunatly governments are closer to corporations than they are to citizens. Perhaps smoking would be a good example. People still do it despite the hieghtened risk of lung cancer. The clear link between the two has caused people to quit and Western governments to take take action. If governments build more roads into the suburbs and not use up inner city land. People will drive on those roads outside of the city into places that normally would be unreachable.

[ June 16, 2001: Message edited by: Pimji ]


From: South of Ottawa | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ven. Jason W. Smith
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posted 17 June 2001 08:41 PM      Profile for Ven. Jason W. Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When I lived near Yonge and Eglinton in Toronto, I used to be amused by the number of SUVs. Must have been a jungle somewhere in the neighbourhood that I just never found.
From: Waterloo | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged

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