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Author Topic: Leonard Cohen and the Nobel
aldo
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posted 06 April 2005 02:22 PM      Profile for aldo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CBC radio host Paul Kennedy is launching a campaign to get Leonard Cohen nominated for a Nobel Prize. The campaign begins, with help from George Elliott Clarke, Michel Garneau, Edward Palumbo and Karen

Rabble should get on this,,, I think,,


From: victoria | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
johnpauljones
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posted 06 April 2005 02:24 PM      Profile for johnpauljones     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What field would he be nominated in? Literature, Peace?
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paxamillion
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posted 06 April 2005 02:26 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is there one for natural hipness?
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Hephaestion
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posted 06 April 2005 03:48 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Leonard Cohen has got so much "hip" I'm surprised he can pull his pants up.
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maestro
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posted 06 April 2005 08:20 PM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Nobel Prize for Neverending Pain
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
AppleSeed
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posted 06 April 2005 08:29 PM      Profile for AppleSeed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For the Suicide Christmas Album.

That was the Air Farce, I think.


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Cueball
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posted 06 April 2005 08:38 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
He's an idiot and I hate his poetry, other Canadiand are more worthy of this prize.
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gabong
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posted 06 April 2005 08:44 PM      Profile for gabong     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I used to love leonard Cohen. But then my wife discovered him. She plays "Ten New Songs" constantly. It grows tiring after a while.

She is also big into his poetry. At least her reading that is not imposed on me.

anyway, all in all, leonard is better than most.


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Boom Boom
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posted 06 April 2005 08:44 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cueball, you're the idiot. Cohen is one of our national treasures and his music is for the ages.
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gabong
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posted 06 April 2005 08:45 PM      Profile for gabong     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
He's an idiot and I hate his poetry, other Canadiand are more worthy of this prize.

idiot, huh?

do expand.


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Hephaestion
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posted 06 April 2005 08:47 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
He's an idiot and I hate his poetry, other Canadiand are more worthy of this prize.

Blaspheeeeeeeeeeeeemer!!!!!


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Cueball
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posted 06 April 2005 09:22 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As much as I love you Heph, I think he sucks.
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Cueball
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posted 06 April 2005 09:25 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
idiot, huh?

do expand.


I think he pretends to a type of sexuality in his poetry that he believes will sell with women (15 to 19), as opposed to expressing a sexuality which is his own.

For instance:

"You touched her perfect body with your mind."

Would more honestly be read as;

"You touched her silken pussy from behind"

Or something like that, which is what he is really talking about, isn't he?

[ 06 April 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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Hawkins
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posted 06 April 2005 10:37 PM      Profile for Hawkins     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
cueball is dropin it like its hot!

Too much rhymes for me.


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Suzette
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posted 06 April 2005 10:42 PM      Profile for Suzette     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I don't know, Cueball, is it? But at least you got to drop the gag in there and say *gasp!* rude words, so I guess it was all worth it.
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AppleSeed
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posted 06 April 2005 11:10 PM      Profile for AppleSeed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cueball, wasn't it you who introduced the words "silken pussy" into the discussion?
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Cueball
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posted 06 April 2005 11:51 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is there something that needs explanation here AS?
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al-Qa'bong
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posted 06 April 2005 11:52 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mr. Cohen should win the Nobel Prize just for giving us "Ordinary Eternal Machinery" and this, from Beautiful Losers:

quote:
God is alive. Magic is afoot. God is alive. Magic is afoot. God is afoot. Magic is alive. Alive is afoot. Magic never died. God never sickened. Many poor men lied. Many sick men lied. Magic never weakened. Magic never hid. Magic always ruled. God is afoot. God never died. God was ruler though his funeral lengthened. Though his mourners thickened. Magic never fled. Though his shrouds were hoisted the naked God did live. Though his words were twisted the naked magic thrived. Though his death was published round and round the world the heart did not believe. Many hurt men wondered. Many struck men bled. Magic never faltered. Magic always led. Many stones were rolled but God would not lie down. Many wild men lied. Many fat men listened. Though they offered stones Magic still was fed. Though they locked their coffers God was always served. Magic is afoot. God rules. Alive is afoot. Alive is in command. Many weak men hungered. Many strong men thrived. Though they boasted solitude God was at their side. Nor the dreamer in his cell, nor the captain on the hill. Magic is alive. Though his death was pardoned round and round the world the heart would not believe. Though laws were carved in marble they could not shelter men. Though altars built in parliaments they could not order men. Police arrested Magic and Magic went with them for Magic loves the hungry. But Magic would not tarry. It moves from arm to arm. It would not stay with them. Magic is afoot. It cannot come to harm. It rests in an empty palm. It spawns in an empty mind. But Magic is no instrument. Magic is the end. Many men drove Magic but Magic stayed behind. Many strong men lied. They only passed through Magic and out the other side. Many weak men lied. They came to God in secret and though they left him nourished they would not tell who healed. Though mountains danced before them they said that God was dead. Though his shrouds were hoisted the naked God did live. This I mean to whisper to my mind. This I mean to laugh with in my mind. This I mean my mind to serve till service is but Magic moving through the world and mind itself is Magic coursing through the flesh and flesh itself is Magic dancing on a clock and time itself the Magic Length of God.


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Cueball
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posted 06 April 2005 11:55 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Human Fly:
Well, I don't know, Cueball, is it? But at least you got to drop the gag in there and say *gasp!* rude words, so I guess it was all worth it.

Frankly fly no. I dislike Mr. Cohen's poetry. I think he is a poseur, a flake and a liar. As I said, he creates these overly layered and romantic motifs that I think are pretentious and false.

"You touched her perfect body with your mind."

Give me a flippin break! Sweet, honey coated words to bemuse naive 15 year olds.

It comes across as: "Hey baby! Of course I respect you. This is all about our minds, the spirit and the soul. Now will you take your clothes off?"

[ 07 April 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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AppleSeed
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posted 07 April 2005 12:00 AM      Profile for AppleSeed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that was when he was on acid.
From: In Dreams | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 07 April 2005 12:01 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

I keep my acid flashbacks of the page.

[ 07 April 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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Cueball
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posted 07 April 2005 12:04 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speaking of prizes, where the fuck is Tim Findleys prize, at least he bothers to write about things of weight, as opposed to cheese bar pick up lines.
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gabong
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posted 07 April 2005 01:36 AM      Profile for gabong     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
ya know, cueball, I think you are right.

perhaps it is all just "artisticly" sanctioed sleaze.


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aldo
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posted 07 April 2005 01:51 AM      Profile for aldo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
yeh Leonard's just a poseur, having spent the last 15 years in the service of one or two Buddist ascetics in an isolated monastery.

I doubt there is a living songwriter performer who could hold a candle to him in a vote off in Europe, where he is most esteemed. In my mind only John Lennon is his equal in the last 50 years.


From: victoria | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 07 April 2005 02:44 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gabong:
ya know, cueball, I think you are right.

perhaps it is all just "artisticly" sanctioed sleaze.



right. But I don't mind sleeze. In fact I rather like it. I just don't liek sleeze coated in candy.


quote:
yeh Leonard's just a poseur, having spent the last 15 years in the service of one or two Buddist ascetics in an isolated monastery.

Las Angeles is Isolated?


Looking out from Leonards isolated digs in the backwoods. From the terrace he contemplates the meaning of life, and then calls a Limo to take him to the Mount Baldy Zen center. I hear that his Bhuddist name that he recieved when he was ordained means "Silent one." LOL.

quote:
"That’s why they’re here. You don’t come to a place like this unless you’re desperate." Yet over and over, amid the calculated irreverence, the gamesmanship, and the crazy-wisdom subversiveness—one of the reasons he became a monk two years ago, he says, was "Roshi wanted me to do so for tax purposes" —I see something touching and genuine truly coming through.

Several Lifetimes Already

Nothing more that I can't stand than rich Californian's going on about peace, love and spirtuality, as they cart their loot to the bank.

It's all a bunch of shite.

[ 07 April 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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AppleSeed
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posted 07 April 2005 03:33 AM      Profile for AppleSeed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You said it cueball.

Out of your very mouth, indeed.


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Cueball
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posted 07 April 2005 03:52 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is no accounting for bad taste, as I always say. Also, is there some web site that you go to as a resource that provides you with grade six level teases?
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Coyote
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posted 07 April 2005 03:57 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're the one with the website.
From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 07 April 2005 04:01 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So, instead of a Nobel for Leonard, how's about seeing if we can get Peter Gzowski on a Canada Post stamp?
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Cueball
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posted 07 April 2005 12:15 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Coyote:
You're the one with the website.

What?! You don't find it kind of odd that this guy goes around pretending to be a Bhuddist Philospher, and then reveals that part of the reason he allowed himself to be ordained as monk was for a tax dodge?

Didn't this whole Bhuddist thing come up as some kind of example of his integrity?

I bring this up, linked to quotes from the man himself, photgraphs from his LA residence, etc., and someone accuses me of being full of shit. I express an opinion based on quoted evidence, etc, aricluate an opinion about his art, and not one person bother to respond except through sracastic objection and insult.

Read through every comment I made about what I said, from the begining of this thread to here, and find one point made about my opinion, that is not a bland insult, or sarcasm. There is not one.

Talk about sacred cows.

I'll tell you what the Mount Baldy Bhuddist retreat is: It is a health spa for philosophically inclined LA stars. John Candy is a member too, does it make him funnier?

[ 07 April 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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Boom Boom
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posted 07 April 2005 12:17 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I vote we kick cueball off the island.
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Cueball
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posted 07 April 2005 12:18 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly.
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maestro
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posted 07 April 2005 12:38 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Stop!!! You're both right.

Cohen is a poseur and a poet. Any why not? So was Bob Dylan.

There is nothing about 'posing' that prevents people from achieving artistically. If there was, I doubt poetry would exist at all.

The problem is that we don't have to deal directly with the posing of past poseurs, only present poseurs.

I had this discussion tonight with a friend about Leadbelly.

He wrote and performed beatiful songs. Songs with haunting themes and melodies.

At the same time he was a dangerous drunk. I said we can romanticize Leadbelly now, because we don't actually have to deal with the man - who was erratic and dangerous.

Whether Cohen is a good poet songwriter will be determined sometime after he's dead and gone.


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Cueball
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posted 07 April 2005 12:44 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well that is reasonable. Is it ok if I don't like the pose?
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AppleSeed
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posted 07 April 2005 06:11 AM      Profile for AppleSeed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
John Candy is a member? It sure hasn't made him any funnier lately, his performances have been downright dead!
From: In Dreams | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
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posted 07 April 2005 08:10 AM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cueball:

I was just playing. You'd talked about grade six taunts, so I provided one. I don't really care what you think about Cohen one way or the other.

I like some of Cohen's poetry, but I'm not a fanatic by any means. When it comes to poetry, I am more a Paul Durcan man, myself.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 07 April 2005 08:47 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I read (a version) of the following Cohen poem at a friend's wedding:
quote:

"Dance Me To The End Of Love"

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic 'til I'm gathered safely in
Lift me like an olive branch and be my homeward dove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love
Oh let me see your beauty when the witnesses are gone
Let me feel you moving like they do in Babylon
Show me slowly what I only know the limits of
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Dance me to the wedding now, dance me on and on
Dance me very tenderly and dance me very long
We're both of us beneath our love, we're both of us above
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Dance me to the children who are asking to be born
Dance me through the curtains that our kisses have outworn
Raise a tent of shelter now, though every thread is torn
Dance me to the end of love

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic till I'm gathered safely in
Touch me with your naked hand or touch me with your glove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love


While part of the poem comes across as a Smarties commercial ("Dance me very tenderly and dance me very long"), nevertheless it was perfectly suited to the occassion. I particularly like the line,

"Lift me like an olive branch
and be my homeward dove
[O]dance me to the end of love."

There are a few versions of this poem. Pity that my friend's marriage found "the end of love" sooner rather than later. But that's love.

With the passing of the only Canadian-born Nobel Prize winner (Saul Bellow) recently, perhaps it is time for another. We deserve it, before our fine country gets sucked completely into the USian vortex. Dunno if I would pick Cohen, though.

[ 07 April 2005: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 09 April 2005 04:03 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I enjoy Cohen for what he is, a somewhat pretentious writer who is aware of his own pretentiousness and in a sense mocks it. Fellow Montrealers Men Without Hats are a bit similar in that respect. Ditto Morrissey, and as someone mentioned, Dylan. I like the stuff on Cohen's first greatest hits albums and on "I'm Your Man" - less so the songs from "The Future."

He's also a writer who, like Dylan, makes songs that are often better as cover versions than in the original form. E.g. Linda Ronstadt and Aaron Neville's sweet bastardization of "Bird on a Wire", Jennifer Warnes' versions of "First We Take Manhattan" and "Ain't No Cure for Love" among others by her, the Jesus and Mary Chain's proto-grungy "Tower of Song"....

"Dance Me to the End of Love" is covered beautifully by jazz vocalist Madeleine Peyroux on her new album Careless Love, where she also covers a Dylan tune. Peyroux's voice is uncannily like Billie Holiday's. So is Leonard Cohen's, in a sense - they tend to enunciate in an odd way, lingering over the words before letting the words leave their mouths.

[ 09 April 2005: Message edited by: obscurantist ]


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