babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » culture   » George Best admitted to intensive care

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: George Best admitted to intensive care
rockerbiff
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9273

posted 03 October 2005 04:18 PM      Profile for rockerbiff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
* Best admitted to intensive care *
Footballing legend George Best is in a "serious but improving" condition, as he is treated for a kidney infection.
Full story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/1/hi/uk/4304964.stm

From: Republic of East Van | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Screaming Lord Byron
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4717

posted 03 October 2005 09:01 PM      Profile for Screaming Lord Byron     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nasty. Mind you, I'm a little surprised he's still alive, given the damage he did to himself.
Still - he was an extraordinary talent.

From: Calgary | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sanitary Engineer
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10538

posted 03 October 2005 09:04 PM      Profile for Sanitary Engineer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wish Georgie all the best.

If Maradona and Keith Richard are still alive and kicking, there is still hope for Georgie.


From: Now Living In Ontario | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076

posted 05 October 2005 09:48 AM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As in Mickey Mantle's case, I've never understood why people who have purposely destroyed their livers get a shot at a new one.

Surely there are thousands of people who, through illness, accident, birth defects, or sheer bad luck, should be ahead of people who have essentially pickled themselves.

And, as recipients of a new lease on life, does anyone think that Georgie or the Mick never hoisted a few in honour of their good fortune.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3292

posted 05 October 2005 12:35 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
According the psychiatrist who sees most of the liver transplants at our hospital, nearly all of them resume drinking after their transplant.
From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 05 October 2005 12:46 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Specifically in the case of Mickey Mantle, it is my vaguest memory that he didn't get a chance to hoist much after the transplant -- I don't think it worked for long. I think we also were told that he had in fact been dry for some time before that operation.

I'm sorry, but I feel I must always protest the moralizing of medical care. I realize that the problem with transplants is a shortage of donors, but then that is a problem that could be addressed by keeping up the campaign to get people to agree in advance to organ donation.

If we can save any lives this way, we should be saving all lives this way. The moment we begin moralizing anyone's treatment, we outsmart ourselves ethically.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3292

posted 05 October 2005 01:24 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speaking as someone who works in hospital, these procedures consume an incredible amount of resources and frequently the result of liver or other transplant surgery is the cancellation of other types of surgery and virtual paralysis of the operating rooms and intensive care units.

Quite a few liver transplants are done for unfortunates who got hepatitis or have congenital problems or cancer but there seems to be a reluctance to prioritize these patients over alcoholics. Frequently as alcholics continue to drink and are non-compliant with therapy, their condition declinces such that their case becomes urgent and they go to the head of the line.


From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
brebis noire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7136

posted 05 October 2005 01:29 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
If we can save any lives this way, we should be saving all lives this way. The moment we begin moralizing anyone's treatment, we outsmart ourselves ethically.


But medical ethics has to take into account medical criteria, and these are affected by patient compliance, lifestyle and other considerations - yes, even age. What we really need to make sure is that the patient's social standing, or 'ability to pay' - whether this be purely financially or some kind of payment to society because of the person's profession, family situation or high-profile personality - doesn't factor in.


From: Quebec | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 05 October 2005 01:43 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I maintain the right to grump about moralizing these issues, partly because responses about prioritizing and about patient compliance still seem to me to spring from underlying conditions of scarcity: ie, an undersupply of donors, an undersupply of doctors and all other medical workers, financial strains in institutions, and so on.

And given some of the doctors I have coped with, I'm not all that sure that any intelligent citizen wants to swallow patient compliance as a standard. As both patient and then as advocate, I have often found it necessary to raise hell with medical experts, and so far, I'm pretty pleased with the results.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 05 October 2005 01:44 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
PS: Knock on wood.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3292

posted 05 October 2005 02:06 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I heard of a sad story from some of the people involved in liver transplants. There was a lady with alcoholic liver disease who went thru the extensive work-up necessary for a liver transplant. Sadly nobody ever bothered telling her that maybe you should stop drinking.
From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 05 October 2005 02:09 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you seriously think she did not know, BleedingHeart?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tommy Shanks
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3076

posted 05 October 2005 03:27 PM      Profile for Tommy Shanks     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Well, I maintain the right to grump about moralizing these issues, partly because responses about prioritizing and about patient compliance still seem to me to spring from underlying conditions of scarcity

Well, that scarcity exists, so until you can somehow alleviate it (which, I agree, should be the goal), you need to prioritize recipients much like in triage when one walks into a hospital.

Talking about the examples of the Mick and George isn't really applicable in Canada. I seem to recall (in Mickey's case anyway), due to the fact he could pay and his fame, a big brouhaha broke out concerning preferential treatment. Granted, this was a guy who didn't expect to see 50, like his dad and other male relatives didn't. So he lived pretty hard and with the consequences. I just think that someone else would have been better served with the transplant, rather then him 7 months before he died.

So I agree in a way, if there is an adequate supply of donor organs, and the system for performing replacements is funded properly, there should never be restrictions on person (or subsequent behaviour) who receives them. Even someone who'll only get an additional month (or less) to live. However, at present, we don't seem to be there.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 05 October 2005 03:35 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's a bit like saying that in an ideal world our government would have unlimited funding for all projects and initiatives great and small.

So we should aim for that, rather than "moralizing" over whether it's "better" to build another Children's Hospital with the money we do have, or a giant golden statue of Jean Chretien.


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
BleedingHeart
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3292

posted 05 October 2005 05:01 PM      Profile for BleedingHeart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skdadl:
Do you seriously think she did not know, BleedingHeart?

Apparently not.


From: Kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
deBeauxOs
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10099

posted 05 October 2005 05:12 PM      Profile for deBeauxOs     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
posted by Mr. Magoo: ... So we should aim for that, rather than "moralizing" over whether it's "better" to build another Children's Hospital with the money we do have, or a giant golden statue of Jean Chretien.
Well, if it only cost a few thousand bucks for a "golden" statue of Chrtien made of cheap brass that could be hoisted in a public place in Ottawa for pigeons to roost and leave their droppings, then I might feel generous and throw in a couple of loonies.

[ 05 October 2005: Message edited by: deBeauxOs ]


From: missing in action | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca