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Author Topic: Beware the man-date!
Doug
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posted 14 April 2005 02:45 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Apparently some men are feeling uncomfortable going to places socially with other men out of the fear that people might assume they're gay.

quote:
Dinner with a friend has not always been so fraught. Before women were considered men's equals, some gender historians say, men routinely confided in and sought advice from one another in ways they did not do with women, even their wives. Then, these scholars say, two things changed during the past century: an increased public awareness of homosexuality created a stigma around male intimacy, and at the same time women began encroaching on traditionally male spheres, causing men to become more defensive about notions of masculinity.

Weird eyes for straight guys who just want to go out


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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posted 14 April 2005 03:08 AM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jesus. What a bunch of insecure, arrested adolescents those guys must be. I and my male friends regularly break all of the "rules" the article lists. Who the hell cares?
From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 14 April 2005 03:19 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The concern about being perceived as gay is one of the major complications of socializing one on one, many straight men acknowledge. That is what Speiser, now a graduate student at the University of Virginia, recalled about another man date he set up at a highly praised Italian restaurant in a strip mall in Charlottesville. It seemed a comfortable choice to meet his roommate, Thomas Kim, a lawyer, but no sooner had they walked in than they were confronted by cello music, amber lights, white tablecloths and a wine list.

"It was funny," Speiser said. "We just knew we couldn't do it." Within minutes they were eating fried chicken at a "down and dirty" place down the road.

Kim, 28, who is now married, was flustered in part because he saw someone he knew at the Italian restaurant. "I was kind of worried that word might get out," he said. "This is weird, and now there is a witness maybe."


How depressing.

quote:
"When you have women in the same world and seeking equality with men, then all of a sudden issues emerge in the need to maintain the male sex role."

Colour me dense, but I really don't understand what women's equality has to do with this?

quote:
Almost all men agree that beer and hard alcohol are acceptable man date beverages, but wine is risky. And sharing a bottle is out of the question. "If a guy wants to get a glass of wine, that's OK," said Rob Discher, 24, who moved to Washington from Dallas and has dinner regularly with his male roommate. "But there is something kind of odd about splitting a bottle of wine with a guy."

"Cost of 8 shooters? $64. Cost of 8 weeks at the Betty Ford Clinic? $34,000. Cost of protecting masculine image under scrutiny of anonymous diners? Priceless."


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
peppermint
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posted 14 April 2005 03:22 AM      Profile for peppermint     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is straght masculinity so fragile, really?
Certainly seems so after reading that article.

There might be something to it though. Feminism hasn't really hit these shores yet, and it's very common to see Korean men with their arms around eachother, carrying what I call manbags, and wearing pink shirts ( gasp!)


From: Korea | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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posted 14 April 2005 03:27 AM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by peppermint:
Is straght masculinity so fragile, really?

Sadly, yes, among men who have little real understanding or awareness of their own sexual identity, or ground their identity entirely in the perceptions of other men.

From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
maestro
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posted 14 April 2005 03:43 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Concern about being perceived as being gay is not a masculinity issue.

It's an issue about the discrimination you could suffer as result.

I personally have very strong feelings that gays should not be discriminated against, in any way shape or form.

I am not gay (although I was made an honorary lesbian once so I could attend a party at a local gay bar), and totally reject discrimination against gays.

That doesn't mean I feel like be discriminated against for being gay when I'm not.

I think it's perfectly understandable that a 'straight' person wants to avoid the consequences of whispered rumours around the office etc.

The real problem is with those who see two men together and make unnecessary (and unwarranted) assumptions.

By the way, it's perfectly acceptable for two men to split a bottle of wine, provided it's a gallon jug of homemade porchclimber.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 14 April 2005 04:49 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Because all of my friends are so much more attractive than I am, maybe people assuming I am not straight could work to make look better

(No, I'm not fishing for sympathy due to lack of self-esteem. It's just that a fair amount of my male friends are VERY popular with the ladies... and some gentlemen... ok am I making any sense here?)

[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Gir Draxon ]


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 14 April 2005 07:16 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maestro:
The real problem is with those who see two men together and make unnecessary (and unwarranted) assumptions.

Yup. And the real problem is that it matters, one way or the other.

quote:
By the way, it's perfectly acceptable for two men to split a bottle of wine, provided it's a gallon jug of homemade porchclimber.

You're assuming that none of us sissies would drink "homemade porchclimber", eh? Well, my brother-in-law is Ukrainian, and if you've ever been to a "YooKRAYneeyan vadding sopper"... holy moley, them big strapping farm lads can drink the harshest stuff. Heh... I ended up sharing a jug and watching the stars with one of 'em (where else? From on top the porch roof. *hee*)

~~~~~~~~~~~~
edited to add:

queerday.com linked to this story in the NY paper a couple of days ago. Their story summary was headlined, "Straight men can be sooooo stupid"

[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 April 2005 08:13 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sad, really.

When I first read the article, I sat and tried to remember whether I'd ever noticed signs of this self-consciousness among Fang and his male friends, and I honestly couldn't. He had several male friends he just plain adored, and especially with a couple who lived elsewhere and only came here on business trips, he was often off to supper with them in restaurants.

He was a book person, though. Book persons are known for being decadent.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 14 April 2005 08:36 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That is pathetic.

I didn't obssess that much about appearances when I went on real, live gay dates back in the mid-80s... in a conservative little town in Michigan.... often when homophobic frat boys from the nearby state college were drinking at the bar of the same establishment.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 April 2005 08:50 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think this is actually pretty funny.

And I disagree that it's about other people rather than about the men on the "man date" themselves. When men get to the point where they THEMSELVES really accept homosexuality, and feminism, and all of the attitude adjustments that go with it, then they won't give a damn whether they're doing "girly" stuff, and they won't give a damn whether people look at them funny for seeing "chick flicks", and they won't feel insecure about people who might think they're part of a gay couple on a date.

Until then, they can suffer through their own self-imposed insecurity. They're only hurting themselves with their own attitudes.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 14 April 2005 08:59 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh, I dunno, Michelle... Every time I'm out for dinner with some woman, I make sure I crack a few tasteless "boob" and "dumb blonde" jokes, just so that nobody thinks we're a couple of... y'know... feminists...

[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
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posted 14 April 2005 09:02 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
I make sure I crack a few tasteless "boob" and "dumb blonde" jokes....

That's as opposed to those highly tasteful 'boob' jokes, right, Heph?


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 14 April 2005 09:04 AM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tape_342:

That's as opposed to those highly tasteful 'boob' jokes, right, Heph?


I think a boob joke is tasteful if the 'boob' is a man.


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 April 2005 09:07 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, the article is wrong when it states that women don't face the same sort of stigma. That's not true at all.

Many straight women I have known who are single for a long time after being divorced, including myself, have been assumed to be gay by someone or other. And if a straight woman who has been single for a long time has a close friendship with another stright single woman, it gets talked about.

I have experienced it myself. And don't tell me that there's no stigma attached to being labelled a lesbian feminist!

You know what the difference is between those men in the article, my straight female friends and I who have had people wonder if we're gay? The difference is, we don't give a damn. We still see each other, go out together, have fun together, whether we do "datelike" stuff or just hang out. We genuinely believe that there is no shame in being a lesbian, and that therefore being THOUGHT a lesbian is not an insult, even if some unenlightened people who think it believe it to be one.

Therefore, we don't get all uncomfortable and weird about hanging out together. We just do it, and to hell what people around us think.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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posted 14 April 2005 09:16 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anchoress:
I think a boob joke is tasteful if the 'boob' is a man.

Okay, I can't *swear* this is true, as it was sent to me by a buddy— for all I know, it's just a gag...

quote:
Barbara Walters of 20/20 (USA-ABC Television) did a story on gender roles in Kabul, Afghanistan, several years before the Afghan conflict. She noted that women customarily walked 5 paces behind their husbands.

She recently returned to Kabul and observed that women still walk behind their husbands. From Ms. Walters vantage point, despite the overthrow of the oppressive Taliban regime, the women now seem to walk even further back behind their husbands and are happy to maintain the old custom.

Ms. Walters approached one of the Afghani women and asked, "Why do you now seem happy with the old custom that you once tried so desperately to change?"

The woman looked Ms. Walters straight in the eyes, and without hesitation, said, "Land mines."


And btw Michelle, I couldn't help an involuntary guffaw when I read "And don't tell me there's no stigma to being known as a lesbian feminist!" You're right, there is, but I could just imagine the ferocity with which you "said" that, and I couldn't help laffing.


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 April 2005 09:17 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have never -- never -- felt self-conscious about going out with a woman friend. To do anything. I mean -- that's what we do. Go out. Or sleep over. Anyone gotta problem wid dat?

Have I ever wondered whether people thought I was a "lesbian feminist" in the sense that Michelle and Heph are joking about?

Only on babble. Seriously, I've had a number of exchanges here, usually but not always with trolls, where it's become clear that I and others are running up against the most ridiculous sexist stereotypes of any woman who dares to be forthright. Or not wear make-up. Or shave her legs. Or ... fill in the blanks.

I know that I often sputter in response, but that's partly because I still can't get over how persistent idiocy can be, after all these years.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 April 2005 09:19 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heph, the Afghan joke:

But this too:


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 April 2005 09:29 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh don't get me wrong, I've never felt self-conscious about going out with female friends either. And certainly not BEFORE I was married, when I was in my early 20's.

I just thought it was a weird and interesting phenomenon that when you leave a marriage, make it known that you are a feminist, and outspoken about gay rights (right around the time I left my husband, there was a big blow-up around homophobic policies at my church and many of us took sides quite vocally one way or the other), and you remain single for a while after you separate, people really do wonder.

Which is fine with me, even if the attitude of the wonderer is negative towards gays and lesbians. For those lovely souls, my answer to impertinent questions is, "Why do you want to know?" or "Would you have a problem with that?"


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 April 2005 09:48 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Michelle, I think that people of my cohort and older may be guilty of the unrecognized prejudice of Queen Victoria. You remember? She wouldn't outlaw lesbianism (even though she agreed to laws against gay male sex) because she couldn't believe it was possible?

It might be that the whole subject just never arose much as a public issue until the seventies. Younger women may have grown up with both greater knowledge and more awareness that women could be stigmatized by the stereotype.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 14 April 2005 10:23 AM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This topic left me a little nonplussed. I just can't imagine why a man would be worried about such a thing. So I asked the blond guy if he ever worried about being taken for gay when out with a guy-friend. His response (after "That's mental!"):

"Just don't french-kiss him. And don't use the phrase 'blow me' as often."


From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 14 April 2005 10:34 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unless you are trying to sleep with someone are they are trying to sleep with you, who cares what that someone else thinks about your sexual orientation. These people who devote themselves to such speculation have way too much time on their hands.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 14 April 2005 10:56 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
She wouldn't outlaw lesbianism (even though she agreed to laws against gay male sex) because she couldn't believe it was possible?

Er...

< pendantry >

I think old Vicky's got a bad rap on this. As I remember it*, she never said anything like that. Rather, during the debate in Parliament on the law criminalizing homosexuality, one of the government ministers responded to the question "what about the fairer sex?" (or whatever) with a gibe to the effect that "I would hardly wish to have to explain to Her Majesty the meaning of that amendment, Mr. Speaker" (or whatever).

(Some Hon. Members**: "Mwaha. Quite. Jolly Good.")

Now, I admit that my source for this is a BBC-TV play about Oscar Wilde. I'll find a more substantial source. It was a very good play, though -- seemed accurate enough -- and much better than the movie that came out around the same time.

< /pendantry >

* Yes, yes. I'm not that old, already.

** SnerkTM Michelle.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 14 April 2005 10:56 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
Unless you are trying to sleep with someone are they are trying to sleep with you, who cares what that someone else thinks about your sexual orientation. These people who devote themselves to such speculation have way too much time on their hands.

Sigh. Exactly. I must have been "weird" all my life because I can't even count the number of times I've been out on so-called "man dates," the last of which was a great dinner and (Second City) show with our (gay) entertainment editor who is being hounded into quitting his job.

My wife did make a few comments on our "date" but I let it roll off. She just does that sometimes.

Hell, the first time was as a high school junior (1980). After school we went to the local grocery store, bought supplies for making pasta including "non alcoholic" wine (you should have seen the looks we got from the female cashiers - we had no idea why ) and we went back to his place and made dinner for ourselves. Never in a million years did I think that as strange.

Screw what people think.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 April 2005 10:58 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Honestly, 'lance? I've been dining out on that old story for donkey's years.

Hell. I sit corrected.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 April 2005 11:13 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder if part of the problem is that the guys in question in this article were doing this not only because of worry about what other people might think, but also because of what their "date" might think? I'm getting a bit of that kind of vibe from the article too. Because the behaviour was happening even when they were completely alone with no one around - on the phone, for instance.

Which makes me think that these guys aren't just worried about how they will appear to outsiders, but also to their friend. "Will he think I'm gay? Will he think I'm attracted to him? Will he think I secretly have a crush on him?"


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
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posted 14 April 2005 01:31 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Honestly, 'lance? I've been dining out on that old story for donkey's years.

Hell. I sit corrected.


It's a good story, but instead of continuing with the thread drift, I'll take it up over on this thread.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 14 April 2005 01:38 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Almost all men agree that beer and hard alcohol are acceptable man date beverages, but wine is risky. And sharing a bottle is out of the question. "If a guy wants to get a glass of wine, that's OK," said Rob Discher, 24, who moved to Washington from Dallas and has dinner regularly with his male roommate. "But there is something kind of odd about splitting a bottle of wine with a guy."

During the last election, the campaign manager and I went out for dinner after a long day at a steakhouse. We split two bottles of wine along with a huge dinner.

The waiter congratulated us for being out of the closet and comped our desert for us.

We didn't correct him. Just had our cake and ate it too.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 14 April 2005 01:39 PM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 'lance:

I think old Vicky's got a bad rap on this. As I remember it*, she never said anything like that. Rather, during the debate in Parliament on the law criminalizing homosexuality, one of the government ministers responded to the question "what about the fairer sex?" (or whatever) with a gibe to the effect that "I would hardly wish to have to explain to Her Majesty the meaning of that amendment, Mr. Speaker" (or whatever).

(Some Hon. Members**: "Mwaha. Quite. Jolly Good.")

Now, I admit that my source for this is a BBC-TV play about Oscar Wilde. I'll find a more substantial source. It was a very good play, though -- seemed accurate enough -- and much better than the movie that came out around the same time.



Actually, the version I heard was pretty much the same as the one skdadl relates... mind you, the source was The Book of Lists (I forget which one), so it might not be much more reliable than a TV show.

From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 14 April 2005 01:42 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
For those lovely souls, my answer to impertinent questions is, "Why do you want to know?" or "Would you have a problem with that?"


My answer would invariably be : "Can I watch?"

On a serious not ethough, I regularly have man dates as well as dates with women other than my wife and couldnt give a flying fuck what people think. I love going out for drinks, food etc with friends and have great conversations. Woe betide anyone interfering with that or even commenting on that

They get the "are you so pathetic with no life that you must watch others and seek to interfere?"


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Hinterland
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posted 14 April 2005 01:50 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The waiter congratulated us for being out of the closet and comped our desert for us.

In my entire life, I've never had a waiter comment on something so personal. What were the two of you doing at the table, Heywood? Feeding each other pieces of the deep-fried onion blossom?

I've sucked face in restaurants and never got no comped dessert, neither.

(...just kidding; I'm not a fan of PDA's)


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 April 2005 02:02 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:
(...just kidding; I'm not a fan of PDA's)

I'll say! (she said peevishly)


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
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posted 14 April 2005 02:14 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh for God's sakes, I thought we had closure on that Michelle.

I don't get the dynamics of straight-male awkwardness surrounding the man-date. It's a cultural glitch that's really foreign to me.


From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
HeywoodFloyd
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posted 14 April 2005 02:17 PM      Profile for HeywoodFloyd     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hinterland:

In my entire life, I've never had a waiter comment on something so personal. What were the two of you doing at the table, Heywood? Feeding each other pieces of the deep-fried onion blossom?

I've sucked face in restaurants and never got no comped dessert, neither.

(...just kidding; I'm not a fan of PDA's)


Holding hands and taking about the Calgary Opera.

KIDDING.

Nothing at all. In fact, we were comment about how we were out on a Saturday when our wives were at home mad at us for working too long and how stupid that was.


From: Edmonton: This place sucks | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Timebandit
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posted 14 April 2005 02:51 PM      Profile for Timebandit     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yabbut, Heywoood, you're in Calgary. Of course the waiter came to such an obvious conclusion!
From: Urban prairie. | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 14 April 2005 03:06 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My favorite (and most crass) take on this article came from my favorite blogger, The Minor Fall, The Major Lift

From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 14 April 2005 03:13 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ha! That was awesome, black_dog. I also really like the name of the blog. Hallelujah!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 14 April 2005 03:43 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In a similar vein:

In my job, the customer's invoice copy is pink. This doesn't go over well with some of the troglodytes in the industry. They either insist on the yellow (my) copy, or they refuse to call it the "pink" copy, preferring "oilfield red".

I guess if they touch something pink, it turns them gay. Who knew?


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
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posted 14 April 2005 04:09 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:
They either insist on the yellow (my) copy, or they refuse to call it the "pink" copy, preferring "oilfield red".

Heh. Let's mock them by referring to anything pink as "oilfield red". Like, look at that toy poodle with the oilfield red ribbon on it's head...


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
blacklisted
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8572

posted 14 April 2005 04:38 PM      Profile for blacklisted     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
makes you wonder what they're not saying about those camp jobs in the oil-patch,huh?
From: nelson,bc | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Olly
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Babbler # 3401

posted 14 April 2005 05:21 PM      Profile for Olly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought it was quite an interesting article.

I was out with a friend of mine at a pub one night and was asked by a woman if we were "together." Of course I live in the riding of our esteemed federal NDP leader, where the chances are probably about 75% that two men together anywhere are gay, particularly in an upscale pub. Neither of us fully answered the question for some time and left her guessing, which only made her more interested. The moral for me is that if you want to meet woman, having people think you are gay is a sure winner!


From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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Babbler # 1299

posted 14 April 2005 05:28 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Olly:
The moral for me is that if you want to meet woman, having people think you are gay is a sure winner!

I had heard that

[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Scott Piatkowski ]


From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Olly
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posted 14 April 2005 05:58 PM      Profile for Olly     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Re-reading my post, that should say "women." How does bad grammar succeed at attracting women?
From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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Babbler # 2116

posted 14 April 2005 06:05 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
About as well as bad speling.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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Babbler # 44

posted 14 April 2005 10:53 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:

I had heard that

[ 14 April 2005: Message edited by: Scott Piatkowski ]


Yes, but it helps if the women think you're gay, not your superintendent.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papal Bull
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posted 14 April 2005 11:17 PM      Profile for Papal Bull   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow, these people must think I'm REALLY gay. I HANG OUT at little artsy things with my buddies all the time. We go see non-action films, to boot.

I wonder what their thoughts on the moshpit are. You know, a bunch of guys (occassionally a dreaded female!) sometimes without shirts running at each other and rubbing up close.

If a high school student can overcome these absolutely ridiculous thing-a-ma-stigmas...Then I suppose that 25 year olds should be able to do it a little bit easier.


From: Vatican's best darned ranch | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
verbatim
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Babbler # 569

posted 14 April 2005 11:21 PM      Profile for verbatim   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Papal_Bull:
...If a high school student can overcome these absolutely ridiculous thing-a-ma-stigmas...Then I suppose that 25 year olds should be able to do it a little bit easier.

As you will discover, P_B, many people never really make it out of high-school.

From: The People's Republic of Cook Street | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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Babbler # 4795

posted 15 April 2005 06:04 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Olly:
The moral for me is that if you want to meet woman, having people think you are gay is a sure winner!

I have had women make a suggestive remark to me soooo many times over the years (I'm talking about even *after* they find out I'm gay)...

What is it with these women?! Is it the challenge? They seem more confident in their ability to "convert" than any door-to-door JW that I've ever met!

And the fundies talk about gays trying to "recruit" kids!


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 15 April 2005 07:36 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Egalitarian American:
Hell, the first time was as a high school junior (1980). After school we went to the local grocery store, bought supplies for making pasta including "non alcoholic" wine (you should have seen the looks we got from the female cashiers - we had no idea why ) and we went back to his place and made dinner for ourselves. Never in a million years did I think that as strange.

"Later that night, entwined in each other's arms kissing passionately, we still wondered why anyone would consider our actions gay."


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 15 April 2005 07:57 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
What is it with these women?! Is it the challenge? They seem more confident in their ability to "convert" than any door-to-door JW that I've ever met!

It's possible that they might see you as a "safe" flirting target. Lots of people like to flirt but don't particularly want to follow through with everyone they flirt with. Or they might even be attracted but also like the idea of being able to enjoy a bit of a crush or attraction without the pressure of any serious possibilities.

Some of the nicest crushes I've had, whether on gay or straight men, have been of the "hopeless" variety - just a private little attraction to enjoy for a while until it goes away.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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posted 15 April 2005 11:02 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:

"Later that night, entwined in each other's arms kissing passionately, we still wondered why anyone would consider our actions gay."


I have to say though, we were just friends. He really wasn't my type. In fact, he turned into a very big conservative.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
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Babbler # 4795

posted 15 April 2005 11:19 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Egalitarian American:
I have to say though, we were just friends. He really wasn't my type. In fact, he turned into a very big conservative.

Sooooo... you admit that you have a "type" when it comes to guys, EA?

*hee* This is startin' to get good, now!


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Américain Égalitaire
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Babbler # 7911

posted 15 April 2005 11:36 AM      Profile for Américain Égalitaire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:

Sooooo... you admit that you have a "type" when it comes to guys, EA?

*hee* This is startin' to get good, now!


now, now. I have to admit that I'm straight to a fault (not that there's anything wrong with that) - I can't help it, I blame biology for the way I feel toward women. But if its "type" you want, I'll say this - if I could come back in my next life as any man, it would be as David Duchovny.


From: Chardon, Ohio USA | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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Babbler # 4722

posted 15 April 2005 11:43 AM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Some of the nicest crushes I've had, whether on gay or straight men, have been of the "hopeless" variety - just a private little attraction to enjoy for a while until it goes away


Awww why thank you Michelle. Mrs Bacchus undertands


From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cartman
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7440

posted 15 April 2005 12:21 PM      Profile for Cartman        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When I was in high school in the mid-80's, I really wanted to see a particular movie playing (cannot recall which one) in a neighboring town. My buddy really wanted to see it too, so we went together as our girlfriends could not come with us for some reason. We felt a little odd that it was at a drive-in theatre, but we both agreed that we were confident in our masculinity and that we were mature adults (16 years old!). As the movie started, three members of our hockey team pulled up (one guy with his girlfriend) and they taunted us throughout the whole f'n movie. Of course, we got it at hockey practice and in school too. We successfully managed to get people to stop by blowing them kisses and winking, but I was surprised how insecure I truly felt.

I still think it is odd that two guys in a car at a drive-in are teased as gay, but one female in a car with three guys somehow made them all really straight. That was 20 years ago and every time my buddy comes to visit, he asks if I want to see a movie with him and we laugh so damn hard.


From: Bring back Audra!!!!! | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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Babbler # 4372

posted 15 April 2005 12:27 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That article looks like something out of Maxim, or one of the other 'damning with outright mockery' guy mags.

I do remember some of those concerns in high school and immediately afterwards (before leaving the hometown) - not so much in me as in my group of friends. Enormous concern goes into worrying about looking gay, though to be fair our town was (unfortunately) a place where one could get one's ass kicked for that.

I chalk it up to ignorance, and a fair amount of insecurity. It passes for most, though I suppose there are people who think like that well into their lives.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged

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