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Author Topic: Simplicity (stupidity), the U.S election and the media
Adam T
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posted 08 December 2004 06:52 PM      Profile for Adam T     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If you listen to the media, especially the U.S media, it seems the average person is pretty stupid. That actually seems to be the main reason George Bush won. He was better at presenting 'simple' solutions than his opponent.

Well, I have no doubt that is pretty true in the U.S. But, I attend a physics class, and the concepts and formuals are not simple. Yet, the vast majority of the class is doing extremely well, I'm an average at best student. So, people seem fully able to take in complex concepts.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than to ask
1.Why does the media treat the average person as an idiot?
2.If the average person is not an idiot, then why did the candidate celebrating idiocy win the U.S election?

[ 08 December 2004: Message edited by: Adam T ]


From: Richmond B.C | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 08 December 2004 09:38 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
1) To prevent them from being clever. In your class, you are given all the information you need to evaluate the material. In the media, all the information you need is dumbed down or simply omitted so that you will not be able to evaluate anything.

2) a) the media.
b) election fraud.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 08 December 2004 11:52 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Adam T:
But, I attend a physics class, and the concepts and formuals are not simple. Yet, the vast majority of the class is doing extremely well, I'm an average at best student. So, people seem fully able to take in complex concepts.
I can guarantee you that your physics class is not representative of the population at large.

[ 08 December 2004: Message edited by: Albireo ]


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nonsuch
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posted 09 December 2004 02:25 AM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, there is that.
On the other hand, a lot of average Bushistas are capable of figuring basball stats, or suping up a car.
I don't think the kind of stupidity we're talking about here is IQ related.

There are several factors involved.
A major one is media. For the last 50 or so years, television has been the main source of information for the vast majority of people. Even if you discount the reliability of television news reporting, a 2-minute segment can't cover all aspects of any subject. So people get used to incomplete, shallow information.
Television has also reduced people's attention-span to fast approaching zero. (Anything you can't tell me in 30 seconds isn't worth knowing.)
Television is commercial. Everything on it has to sell something, or it gets no precious air-time.
The people who pay for the programming want to sell things that nobody needs, so they don't like a critical audience: they like an audience of credulous, insecure, greedy infants. They've gone to a lot of trouble to raise their kind of citizen. Over the 25 or so years that i've been keeping track, the maturity level of tv programming has declined to age 7 (bathroom jokes, scary monsters and assurances that Momma loves you, and Daddy protects you, no matter how badly you behave).
Television programming celebrates the average. While lowering the average by a percentage point or two, each year.
GWB is the ultimate television president. They just don't come any more average. The most ordinary of ordinary guys can identify with him. Yet, he has all this power! What's not to trust?

[ 09 December 2004: Message edited by: nonesuch ]


From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Adam T
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posted 09 December 2004 03:01 AM      Profile for Adam T     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nonesuch, thanks for the reply. Two interrelated comments:
1.Regarding television. It's interesting, when television was first introduced, it was assumed it would increase knowledge with documentaries and stuff. I don't know if the average television program has gotten 'dumber' over the past 25 years or so. I'd say that's an overgeneralization. On balance, I'd say there are simply a lot more television shows these days. There is a lot of 'intelligent' television, or at least, television that assumes the audience is bright enough to keep up without being told every little thing. And was it so great 25 years ago? The Brady Bunch???? (I'll leave out Gilligan's Island, because aside from the falling coconuts, there is an entertaining school of school of thought that the program is actually a sophisticated satire of the seven deadly sins).

Still, when one compares even the best tv programs of now to, at least, what I've heard of 1950's programs like Playhouse 90, the 50's programs seemed designed to be more challenging.

The justifications for banning drugs could pretty much be used on television (addictive, addles the mind, reduces productivity). It raises the question that had people known the effects television would have on the culture and on individuals would television have been banned in the 1940's?


2.I think it has been more or less proven that television does disengage the viewer from 'thinking'. This is why, for me personally, I prefer to listen to radio interviews and documentaries over television programs even for science discussions, even though science can be very visual.

Coast to Coast has developed an unfair reputation as a program filled with UFO and psychic enthusiasts, but they also have a lot of credible scientists on as well. Besides, it is the only Canadian/American program (outside of Quirks and Quarks) I'm familiar with that regularly has scientists on the program. The fact that it is the only science program is likely the reason why credible scientists go on a program that also features psychists and other crackpots. For those with fast internet connections, I also recommend BBC4.


From: Richmond B.C | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
nonsuch
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posted 09 December 2004 06:12 PM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think television is to blame.
Like any tool, it can be very good. The real question is: who controls it, and for what purpose?

There was nothing particularly wrong with Gilligan's Island - it was just silly, not evil. There is nothing particularly wrong with simple entertainment, as long as its core values reflect, illustrate and reinforce the stated values of the society.
(personal liberty, justice, tolerance, brotherhood... all the things Americans still pay lip-service to)
What's wrong is that, in catering to a lower and lower common denominator, much of television programming undercuts and even directly contradicts those values. Tough guys are sexier than nice guys; greed is more popular than generosity; humiliating someone is funnier than understanding them.

Independent Public tv was an excellent idea for educational and public affairs programming. But it doesn't sell cars.
TV journalism used to be taken as seriously as print journalism (note: i'm not saying either one was necessarily clean), and there used to be some competition for a story. Most Americans probably still believe what they see on the news: are unaware that all of it is owned by the same people who want to sell them air-fresheners and hand-reared politicians.


From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
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posted 09 December 2004 10:04 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
nonesuch did a great job explaining why commercial television is so shallow, immature and mediocre, so I won't try to add to it.

But I would like to point out that there are many kinds of "intelligence". Being good at abstract problem solving and conscious decision-making doesn't make you immune to emotional appeals and subconscious influences.

Unfortunately our school system emphasizes the former and ignores the latter, leaving most people utterly defenseless against media manipulation. Which, not coincidentally, is how the power elite like it.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 09 December 2004 11:05 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Emotional appeals often trump thought, if it exists, or has a chance to. Addressing herds, as opposed to individuals (who value being identified with the herd above all else), requires an appeal to the emotions, not the head. Bush concentrated on the need to belong to the herd, with all of its attendant and convenient mythology. Aka, patriotism.

Now consider that he won against a vacuum, and even the vacuum was running neck-and-neck. How weak is that? If Kerry hadn't the emotional combustion of lichen growing on the cool side of a rock, GW would be riding the pine right now.


From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Adam T
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posted 09 December 2004 11:48 PM      Profile for Adam T     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The discussion here fits into another discussion I was having as to why Kerry lost the election.

Which essentially was that Bushco created two major assumptons:
1.That to win the 'war' on terror, the U.S actually had to go to war.
2.That the #1 requirement of the person heading up the 'war' on terror is that they be "strong and resolute" (whatever that means).

Both of these assumptions were created long before Kerry became the Democratic nominee and they were endlessly parroted by the mindless and lazy U.S media, rather than debated and challenged.

We need look no further than the way Howard Dean was considered a 'far left loony liberal' just for opposing the Iraqi war, even though his political views in almost every area clearly placed him as a rather conservative Democrat as proof that the media parroted these assumptions.

All that said, and I appreciate the discussion, that isn't actually what I meant by this thread.

I was referring more to things like the discussion of the electoral reform idea "STV" here in British Columbia.

What seems to be the general attitude in the media is that STV is way too complicated for the average simpleton citizen to comprehend.

Is this really so? I think following STV requires an understanding of something like 3 or 4 mathematical formulas. If the average teenager can pick up on concepts in physics, is the average adult really too stupid to understand STV?

[ 09 December 2004: Message edited by: Adam T ]


From: Richmond B.C | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
nonsuch
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posted 10 December 2004 01:21 AM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I once heard a student say of a professor: "He really knows his subject, but he can't seem to get it across."
Bullfeathers! If you understand something, you can explain it. It may be necessary to pay attention to your audience, figure out where to start, and reduce the concept to their current level of comprehension. Then you can build on the basic concept and expand their comprehension. That's how everything is taught and learned.
Saying: "You're too dumb (young, uneducated, old-fashioned, prejudiced - whatever) to grasp this." is always a cop-out; it usually means, "I don't want to bother explaining it." (Or "I don't understand it well enough to explain.")

Voters would be a lot more interested in the political process - and in the mechanics of any particular proposed reform - if a) someone who really understands is took the trouble to explain from the ground up and b) someone convinced them that it matters a damn what they think.

Americans are not any stupider than Canadians. And even a person of low IQ (I don't put much store by this; it's just a convenient shorthand reference to degrees of native intelligence.) can make a sound decision if properly informed.
There are several factors involved, besides mass communication media, but they're all related: all the strings can be traced to the same half dozen puppet-masters.

[ 10 December 2004: Message edited by: nonesuch ]


From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
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posted 10 December 2004 01:49 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There used to be teach-ins on campus lawns during Vietnam--Chomsky at MIT, etc., filling in context for people who wanted to understand. Wonder if they could even get away with that now.
From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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