Anyone else read this and care to discuss? I can give a quick run down of what it's about if anyone had wanted.

[ 29 May 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

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When and how did your search or quest in what is now termed "alternate archeology" begin?

Sitchin It began when I was a school boy studying the Old Testament in its original language of Hebrew. Only when you read it in it's original language do you understand what it really says. I was nine or ten years old, and we reached chapter six of Genesis. This chapter describes the beginning of the deluge, the great flood, which includes Noah and the Ark. It begins not with the story of Noah himself and what happened, but with a preamble of some eight verses, that are obvious remnants of a much older and different text than the ensuing story of Noah and the Ark. These eight verses have been the delight of Sunday preachers because they talk about the reasons for the deluge, and why God became angry with humankind. It says that the time just before the great flood was when there were giants upon the Earth who married the daughters of men and had children by them. I raised my hand and said, "Excuse me teacher. Why do you say giants when the word in Hebrew is "nefilim," which means those who have come down or descended, and in the context because it speaks like they were sons of the gods, who came from Heaven to Earth." I was expecting to be complimented for my linguistic acumen, but instead I was reprimanded harshly. The teacher ordered me to sit down, and not to question the Bible. I was not questioning the Bible. On the contrary, I was trying to bring out the need to understand precisely what the Bible says.

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[ 30 May 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Though I'm still not quite at that point... In the introduction of The Twelfth Planet, Stichen goes into evolution and how the painfully slow progress received a couple kick starts. And the de-evolution of human society on several occasions. Sumer around 3800bc was exceedingly advanced and popped up almost instantaneously... Complete with currency, law, Medicine (including the first use of the medical 'snake' symbol), construction, and metallurgy (even early use of petroleum products similar to bitumen known as fire rocks). One can quite easily argue that the Greeks advancements were copies of this ancient civilization... Infact in Greek works there is reference to it being copied from some other Near East source (the same way the renaissance got a big boost from the discovery of ancient Greek pieces).

The explainations of cuneiform script (even early 'printing presses') and the works that have been dug up out of various Hittite, Assyrian, Babylonian, etc... scripts from song and music, to food reciepes, to the law that governed the land. It's an amazing read, I'll give it that.

Just going through now how all the early pantheons from Eygptian, Greek, Babylonian, Indian, Hittite, ect... all have consistancies to them that parellel each other (even a few bible quotes like the mention of "Shin'ar" just being a form of Shumer or Sumer). He makes a pretty solid arguement... I think it prefaces with a reference to 30 years worth of research has been put into this book series.

The inference he's making into the evolutionary debate is amazing as well. The 'missing link' that so many evolutionist scientists are searching for, according to Stichen here, will never be found... Because it doesn't exist. The Human species was 'kick started' along it's evolutionary path.

I'd definately recommend giving this a read to anyone that hasn't... Amazon or other online books stores have it by the looks of it. Though it's not the easiest read (I have a good degree of background with the region from silly games and other books I've read which has made it slightly easier... Heh, knowing what region Sumer is in or what Akkadian is helped alot)

Addit:
Just a quote from the article linked:

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They started to came and go between their planet and our planet about four hundred and fifty thousand years ago. The Anunnaki came here for their own needs and reasons, in search of gold, which they needed to protect the atmosphere of their own planet. This brings up issues such as why were they losing their own atmosphere, and was it a matter of environment. We are facing some of the same issues right now on our own planet. In addition, they needed manpower and workers, so they jumped the gun on evolution, combining their genes with the genes of humanoids. They combined their genes with females already on Earth, and as a result of evolution brought us about. So no wonder all this search for a so-called missing link that connected between Homo-Erectus and Homo-Sapiens has proven fruitless. That link is missing because it was jumped over artificially through genetic engineering.

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[ 30 May 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

ETA: In fact, geologists say there existed a huge glacial lake covering the region of the Great Lakes was fed by glacial meltwater several thousand years ago. And south of the Great Lakes, perhaps the Michigan basin region, a very large end moraine acted as a giant damn for glacial runoff. It let go at some point and a very large amount of fresh water flowed down the Mississippi. It must have been an awesome event.

[ 30 May 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

The theories that I prefer to follow are more revolving around our de-evolution... Without some form of war, human society grows stagnant quickly (without a doubt our biggest leaps are a direct result of war). Even to the point where without war, human civilization will rapidly decline and eventually die off (which was discovered by the decline of Sumer). From early periods (Babylon vs Assyrian) to classical ages (Greek vs Persia) to the times of Christ(Rome vs carthage vs eygpt vs...) then middle ages (crusades or... err, pick a war). From the crusades on it's hard to find a time where we weren't at war. Gives the feeling that our leaders and society are being manipulated towards such (which even lends itself to 9/11 conspiracy theories... It was orchastrated to send the world to war once again after the decline of the cold war).

[ 30 May 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

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Is there any evidence of a massive flood at the end of the last glacial period?

Yes, this can be found in the Lake Missoula, Altai and Agassiz megafloods, to name a few.

Glacial Lake Missoula, a North American inland sea, was as big as Lakes Erie and Ontario combined. The glacial lake covered over 3,000 square miles, and was over 2,000 feet deep at the edge of the glacial dam. The Missoula megaflood release over 520 cubic miles of water and ice across Montana, Idaho, Washington and Oregon. Flood waters roared across the landscape at speeds approaching 90 miles per hour, the lake drained in as little as 48 hours. Some argue that it was caused by a massive ice dam that broke releasing a massive flows of water and ice and the event repeated several times.

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James A. Marusek

We've had modern day versions of a glacial lake damn melting away as well... Sachs harbour Full Article

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Hot weather in the summer is melting the permafrost and causing large-scale slumping on the coastline and along the shores of inland lakes. The melting has already caused one inland lake to drain into the ocean, killing the freshwater fish. Around the town of Sachs Harbour, it is causing building foundations to shift.

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So we have seen lesser versions of this in very recent years... I don't think it's a stretch to think a larger version could occour. Hmmm, I'm curious what Stichin's take on the great flood is (haven't quite made it to that part yet).

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I've seen rock formations in Argentina that must have been scraped off by glaciation.

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I would imagine glacial formations would be similar regardless of where it was found. Mind you, the South American continent has some interesting drawings going on Nasca lines

Heh, while I was searching for info on the nazca lines, I found this as well... here

Even makes one wonder about the sudden dissapearance of the Mayan peoples and if it fits in.

There was some unearthed peices around the atlantic coast line in Canada that didn't match with any native style drawings/writings and I'm curious if they bare similar signs as what Incan/Egytian/Sumerian's show.

Addit: I need to get better at web research... Trying to find any information on that find is exceedingly difficult.

Addit # 2:

I've had a chance to fully go through the great flood link provided and am finding some holes in it. His backup for the existance of the floods is great, but I'm questioning his assertion of a structured society circa 11000BC. Heh, yay more stuff to research.

[ 30 May 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

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The theories that I prefer to follow are more revolving around our de-evolution... Without some form of war, human society grows stagnant quickly (without a doubt our biggest leaps are a direct result of war). Even to the point where without war, human civilization will rapidly decline and eventually die off (which was discovered by the decline of Sumer). From early periods (Babylon vs Assyrian) to classical ages (Greek vs Persia) to the times of Christ(Rome vs carthage vs eygpt vs...) then middle ages (crusades or... err, pick a war). From the crusades on it's hard to find a time where we weren't at war. Gives the feeling that our leaders and society are being manipulated towards such (which even lends itself to 9/11 conspiracy theories... It was orchastrated to send the world to war once again after the decline of the cold war).

[ 30 May 2006: Message edited by: Noise ][/QB]

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Bizarre thread. Far from energizing human cultures, wars, particularly modern wars, stunt their development and should properly be regarded as a form of social disease, like slavery, or...banking. Afghanistan has had a couple of decades of war now. Howzit doin? Hm, not so good. Iraq? Thriving! Vietnam spent the last three decades crawling out of the bomb shell of the last war there.

How about western civilization in general? Last century, biggest wars the planet has ever seen. Real good, full-on, body counts in the tens of millions, wars.

So where's the great leap forward that resulted from this necessary evolutionary step? Fifty years later and still waiting. Now we're stuck with an obselete industrial oil dependent civilization - the same one that existed before the world wars, by the way, so no change there -that presses foreign wars when it should be casting about looking for new energy sources.

Nope. War changed with the modern era, this is hardly news. While it might furnish new technologies - love those tape recorders - it has a corrosive effect on the social fabric.

War is really just a sign of rot, of decay. Now, I suppose decay is a natural feature of life: we wax and we wane, and perhaps we must accept it like that?

But I don't think so. No, in the modern era, wars can and are avoided. And when they are not it all goes to shit, witness the present historical moment. The wars currently prosecuted by the great powers - as opposed to the perennial low-intensity conflicts, yer common or garden variety - Colombia, the Philipines, Sudan, Congo, etc. - are symptomatic of decline, a profound failure of imagination and nerve rather than some moment of cultural transcendence, thank you very much.

The Bush Crime Family: Four Generations of Wall Street War-Making and War-Profiteering

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In 1918, just after the US entered World War I, Bush became chief of the Ordnance, Small Arms and Ammunition Section of the War Industries Board. In this capacity, he sold weapons made by manufacturers such as his own Remington Arms Company to 75% of the WWI combatants on both sides. Congressional committee hearings in 1934 by U.S. Senator Gerald Nye attacked Bush and other weapons salesmen as war profiteers and “Merchants of Death.” Salesmen from these companies had helped to manipulate the nations into World War I and then made astronomical profits from the sales of the weapons, at the taxpayer’s expense of course. In 1914, the German army under the Kaiser, armed mainly by Samuel Bush, was the largest and best armed in the world. After WWI, the German army was forced to disarm, but Bush was allowed to keep his many millions, and his arms business thrived. In 1944, Bush was awarded a huge government contract to make armor casings for WWII.

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The more I read of the Twelfth planet and the related books (and links Fidel has included), theres pretty interesting questions raised. For example, 12 was a 'divine' number so to say in Sumerian culture... Standing for 6 male and 6 female 'Gods'. I put 'Gods' in quote, because these gods do not parallel the monothiestic notions of God... Instead more like 12 people of extreme technology living amoungst Humanity (who's powers would be revered as if gods). 6 times the mortal number 10 (derived from number of fingers? Not quite sure how 10 is a mortal number) is 60, which is the base number used by Sumerian. This base number system, arguably, is more advanced than the base 10 we currently use (base 10 being divisible by only 5 and 2 makes it quite combersome, 60 goes into 2,3,4,5,6). The base 60 system was passed down to Babylonian, but unfortunately degraded over a few millenium until Roman/greek times using roman numerology (an exceedingly cumbersome and hard to manage system). In more recent times the base 10 system came back, dropping the '6' multiple, however the base 60 is still predominent in our society (60 seconds, 60 minutes, 12 hours pm, 12 hours am... A direct 'gift' from Sumerian culture). Strange that a civilization that appeared out of no where circa 3800 bc came up with a more advanced numbering system then we currently do hey?

One of the more fascinating peices is from Gilgamesh's writings (so circa 3000bc? around that... maybe earlier), where he was awoken at night and described what he saw in poem. I can write the full poem if anyone would like, but it truely appears to be a rocket launch being described by a person incapable of understanding what a rocket launched to space would look, sound, and feel like.

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Bizarre thread. Far from energizing human cultures, wars, particularly modern wars, stunt their development and should properly be regarded as a form of social disease, like slavery, or...banking. Afghanistan has had a couple of decades of war now. Howzit doin? Hm, not so good. Iraq? Thriving! Vietnam spent the last three decades crawling out of the bomb shell of the last war there.

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Modern war has changed, particularily with the Nuclear warhead... But also with 'proxy wars'. Afghanistan really wasn't at war... It was the Americans vs Russians, Afghanistan was the unfortunate battle ground. Calling either Iraq conflict a war is a step beyond silly anyway, as it's more rightfully referred to as an occupation. But you are right, modern warfare has brought about change (which would represent our maturity as a species). Pre-WWI however, the effect appeared to be the opposite. Humanity rises to the challenges we are presented with and to the level of the challenge we are presented with... Without the presence of a challenge, we tend not to rise (and several instances throughout history echo this)

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So where's the great leap forward that resulted from this necessary evolutionary step? Fifty years later and still waiting. Now we're stuck with an obselete industrial oil dependent civilization - the same one that existed before the world wars, by the way, so no change there -that presses foreign wars when it should be casting about looking for new energy sources.

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Energy in oil form was exceedingly cheap and until recent time, there was no 'evolutionary step' possible for oil consumption. And if you feel that there has been absolutely no progress over the past 50 years, I suggest you take a good hard look at that computer infront of you and wonder where it comes from

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War is really just a sign of rot, of decay. Now, I suppose decay is a natural feature of life: we wax and we wane, and perhaps we must accept it like that?

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The problem is, as history shows, we wax at times of war and wane during periods of peace.

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But I don't think so. No, in the modern era, wars can and are avoided.

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edited for my grammar!

[ 07 June 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

I'll throw in some poems with my next post (when I have that book infront of me), but theres a very strong arguement for... Well, in past translations of old texts (including the book of genesis), the Hebrew term 'Shem' was taken to mean name. Stichin puts forward an exceedingly strong case that this is a mistranslation... It actually means 'Space ship' (He goes into the evolution of the word and past translations... You would have to read for yourself, it includes alot of pics). When you substitute this space ship into early translations for name (shem), then alot of old legends suddenly make much more sense.

The tower of Babel for instance, had man create a giant tower reaching to the heavens to build for themselves a name. Now if you take this story in it's original Hebrew form, it does uses the word 'Shem' (which is translated to name in the book of genisis). Stichin in about 5 pages of text does a much better job of showing this relation, but if you replace 'name' with 'Ship' the story makes much more sense. Mankind built a tower to launch their own ships from (Likely by the guidence of another 'god').

Theres also several statements towards the term Nefilim. In ancient texts (once again, the book of genisis) this was translated to 'giant'... If you look at it in it's original Hebrew, the correct translation is 'those that descended from heaven'.

I'll put up a few of the poems and versus's that these come from in my next post. I wish I could find a way of linking some of his pics on here as well, as the peices that have been found in many archeological sites through the Near East (Mesopotania) show exceedingly bizarre things. How exactly did Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, ect... Know how to make compartimental drawings of space ships (including underground silo's)? If you look at peices from that era... It is obvious that they did.

Just an edit to add... Possible interest for feminists rejecting our patriarchal society, there is litle evidence pre 4000BC that we were a patriarchal species (I've now seen arguements stating early humans quite possibly could have been matriarchal). Twelfth planet logic states that we adopted the society of those that created us, and not nessacarily what we would have naturally evolved to. The Nefilim (Those that descended from the heavens) are quite obviously patriarchal.

[ 08 June 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

Just another edit. As I sift through information, I find theres alot of bullsh*t thrown around as well. It's hard to differentiate the stuff that actually has credibility behind it vs stuff that is made up simply to make cash... Playing off the ' I just wanna beleive' attitude to make themselves cash... Especially heavy when it comes to abduction and the sort (and American style UFO conventions... Theres as much fact a one of those as there is a trekkie convention).

[ 08 June 2006: Message edited by: Noise ]

weapons of total destruction ?

I think the U.S. feds have been interested in the work of Nikola Tesla, the scientist at the turn of the last century who claimed to have made breakthroughs in understanding the ionosphere, magneto-telurics and power physics. He was supposed to have handed detailed descriptions of an invention for a "death ray" capable of wiping out million man armies, knocking down planes and blowing large battle ships out of the water. Allegedly, Tesla split the detail patent into a jigsaw puzzle, giving part of it to the U.S. feds, another to the Russians, Britain and so on, so that they would have to collaborate or some such in order to figure out how to create the most terrible weapon in human history.

[ 13 June 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]