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Author Topic: I'm afraid of Americans.
Black Dog
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posted 13 September 2002 02:28 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My formative years were in the early to mid '80s, right in the shadowy twighlight of the Cold War. I remember as a kid being haunted by the spectre of a nuclear conflagration that would destroy the world. I remember movies like "The Day After" and such giving me nightmares, ones that usually ended with me disappearing in a flash of light with nothing but my shadow blasted against the wall.

During the nadir of the Cold War, there was, at least, the knowledge that the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction (a term I learned when I was probably 6 or 7 years old) kept the dogs of war at bay. Only a true madman would take the first step in a conflict that would turn most of civilizaton into a big glass parking lot.

Fast forward almost 20 years later. The nightmares are gone, but I can't open the paper or watch the evening news without feeling the familiar cold feeling of terror creeping up on me. The Janus-like balance of global security is gone. The lone superpower is now freely stating its imperial agenda and no international law or military force can stop it. Its leaders are exhbiting the kind of bloodlust normally associated with such power-mad monsters of history as Stalin or Genghis Khan.

I'm scared.

I am also torn. On one hand, I harbour some hopeful optimism that these are the last thrashings of a dying beast, grown fat on oil and the sweat and blood of the rest of the world, but now bloated and desperatly trying to grab what it can before it collapses under the weight of its own corruption. On the other, though, I am afraid that we are living in the early stages of a global empire whose ambitions, long tacet, are now on display for all to see. I see words that were concieved as expressions of the highest ideals of mankind-truth, justice, freedom- cheapened and abused by rich men who mouth them as platitutdes, but deal in lies, miserey, greed, and hypocrsicy.

What lies ahead? Are we as people doomed to merely watch, to peep about to find ourselves dishonourable graves, as the play says?
Can I hope for something better for the future, so my nieces and nephew can grow up without knowing this same feeling of powerlessness and fear? I hope so. But until then, I'll be behind the couch with my blankie.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 13 September 2002 02:46 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You should be afraid. I live here and I'm scared shitless. We're being led by a quasi-fascist regime that has used 9/11 the way the Nazis used the Reichstag fire in 1933. This government will lie, smear and cheat to get what it wants. It is aided by a whore media that either is directly, or indirectly complicit, in its propaganda.

But remember that the thugs in power do not necessarily speak for a majority of Americans. Recall that approximately 52% of voters did not vote for Bush in 2000. And many of the people who support his foreign policy do so out of reflex, and don't really understand what's going on. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm hopeful that eventually the people will see the truth. That the thugs will go too far and even the media whores will be forced to say that the jig is up. That the people will come to realize that the emperor has no clothes. I saw it happen with Nixon and George I; maybe it will happen with George II.

If not, I may join you behind that couch.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: josh ]


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 13 September 2002 03:33 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's quite possible that Dubya is only destined for one term (and I keep hoping that Cheney's dicky heart goes boom-not very nice, but I know evil when I see it). Only problem is, what's the alternative? As much as I long to see Bush turfed (or better yet, on trial at the Hague), there's hundreds of mini-Bushes around just salivating at the prospect of power. Scary stuff. I hope everyone has a sturdy sofa.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 13 September 2002 03:45 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Who will win if not the Republicans. A clone of Clinton or maybe an American version of Blair?

It is a scary thought that I have to rely on the awakening of a people who watch reality TV shows showing actual arrests of people. I have always loved the duplicity of no alien being allowed to donate money to American politicians and then those same politicians demanding that other peoples change their governments.

The only hope I can see in the long term is for Americans to start a grassroots movement to take the money out of politics. Public funding not corporate funding of political elections would have far reaching effects on the kinds of candidates elected. This idea might even be doable and I think it is already in its infancy as a movemet in America.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 13 September 2002 03:47 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, the problem is the Democrats are afraid of their own shadows. They don't challenge the premise of what Bush is doing. Everything is "yes, but." Which is really sad because of the courage shown by so many Democratic politicians in speaking out against the Vietnam War when one of their own was in power.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Black Dog
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posted 13 September 2002 05:09 PM      Profile for Black Dog   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't think democrats are afraid. Today, most fall pretty much right with the Republikan line on most issues. There's not a helluva lot of differenc ebetween the two: both are heavily beholden to corporate interests, both are the domain of welthy white dudes and both (neither?)have any concern beyond their own advancement.
Gee, do I sound a litle cynical?

From: Vancouver | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Flowers By Irene
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posted 13 September 2002 07:10 PM      Profile for Flowers By Irene     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm afraid of Americans, I'm afraid of the world, I'm afraid I can't help it...

I like the campaign finance reform bill they passed - the one that was supposed to ban 'soft money'. Instead of an outright ban, now politicians are are only banned from ASKING for soft money contributions. They can still accept them, and even SUGGEST- but not ask for- these kind of contributions.

I can't bellieve the pace at which that country is progressing... its almost revolutionary.


From: "To ignore the facts, does not change the facts." -- Andy Rooney | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 13 September 2002 07:40 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Kropotkin:

You're right public financing is important. But unfortunately that's a long-term goal.

But good God why can't there be one Democratic leader who will throw away the polls and the political and media advisors and take a principled stand. Say that Bush's whole plan since 9-11 has been to exploit the situation for political benefit. That he's destroying many of the country's freedoms. And that he's a fraud who made his money through inside connections.

Is that too much to ask?


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 13 September 2002 11:40 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

I long since gave up being loquacious in my criticisms of the United States and its leaders and a goodish segment of its population. You can only hollar that some damn stupid people are running this planet for so long before it doesn't even get to be funny anymore.

All I can say is, josh - you're more optimistic than I about the potential of the American people to shake things up and demand a full accounting. There's a good paragraph about how Germans sleepwalked down the 12 years of dictatorship in Nazi Germany because no one action by the government was too shocking, and people would all wait for others to jump off the starting gate, to give the signal that all was not well. So no one person took the responsibility for saying "Lookit. We need a mass uprising, and we need one now." Pastor Niemoller got his ass kicked for saying what he did, and Hans Scholl, one of the leaders of the White Rose movement, was killed for resisting the Third Reich's doctrine of unquestioning obedience.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 14 September 2002 12:07 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
My hope lies less with the people than in the administration overreaching. The one thing the American media is good at is smelling blood.

And who can blame the people. If the opposition politicians are too timid to speak out, why should they? I should note there have been notable exceptions such as Senator Byrd and Congressman Kucinich. But Daschle and Gephardt are terrified of being tarred as "anti-american" and thereby tipping the November elections to the Republicans. So they take the "yes, but" approach. But I believe the only way to oppose a bully is to stand up to him. There's still time.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
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posted 14 September 2002 03:02 AM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Americans are scaring themselves.

You don't suppose the Bushites will make a claim that the descendants of the United Empire Loyalists are really Americans, and that they belong in the Greater USA - the way Sudeten Germans were brought into Greater Germany - do you?

Enron Enron Über Alles.


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 14 September 2002 08:32 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, I'm going to sue this Wasserman guy for plagiarism!
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 14 September 2002 09:58 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Democrats do what they do best:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/14/politics/14DEMS.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
David Kyle
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posted 14 September 2002 10:53 AM      Profile for David Kyle     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To heck with Americans.

I'm afraid of the new Cherry Coke! Ewww....is that stuff scary.


From: canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 September 2002 11:07 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
You can only hollar that some damn stupid people are running this planet for so long before it doesn't even get to be funny anymore.

My thoughts too. Arch: very funny.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
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posted 14 September 2002 11:51 AM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That was Doc, copying my folksy style.
From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 14 September 2002 12:11 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No, I was speaking to both of you. Doc was feeling worn on this topic, as am I; you were genuinely funny on the topic of the Sudeten UEL.

Honestly, Arch.

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: skdadl ]


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Arch Stanton
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posted 14 September 2002 02:02 PM      Profile for Arch Stanton     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Darn you and your subtle punctuation, skadl. I really ought to fully wake up before posting to babble.

Funny "ha, ha," or funny "I gotta build me a bunker because the going is getting very weird?"


From: Borrioboola-Gha | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Apemantus
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posted 14 September 2002 05:46 PM      Profile for Apemantus        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is there a difference?


From: Brighton, UK | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eauz
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posted 14 September 2002 07:33 PM      Profile for Eauz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's weird to look at the USA(Today) and Germany(1930's) and realize some of the Similarites(sp) that they have. One thing that is all over the place is the American Flags Everywhere. Just like in NaZi Germany. The USA just needs to firstly do a bit more research on this WAR on Terrorism, like if they didn't have this "horrible" hatred against Communists, maybe they might not have put the Taliban leaders into power.

I am also very happy that there are many countries rebelling against the USA's War on Terrorism. Also, I had the chance to live in 3 countries in my 19 years of life, (Canada(Born here) USA(During High School years) and Belgium(On an Exchange Program), and I saw 3 different points of view from them.

Canada - We have our "National" news and support, but we are also looking out into the World at other issues, not just the ones that will be on the Front Page of "The New York Times."

USA - They were more into their own stuff going on, like with the Politics going on in the country, National Team Sports, and just OVERKILL of "BIG TIME" Topics in the Nation ONLY. Living in the West coast for 2.5 years there, I rarly heard news (unless like Electric Problems in California, or local news) about the West Coast States. And that bothered me for a country who is united like that. So if they can't find out info like that and report "less" important things, but important non the less.

Belgium - Ok, I don't know if many people know where this country is, I before going on this Exchange Program didn't even know it existed. And that is a problem with North American Countries (Especially in USA and Canada) But when I was there, I found out that they care about (a) Their local news (b) Forgein News (c)Everything in the World and in Europe. Sure you could say "Belgium is part of the European Union, and that would mean they have to, but just being in Europe made you realize that there is more to the world than just Canada and USA. Unfortunatly we in North America Don't Care much about What is going on in the World, unless it Hits us Directly. I got an example of how much they care about news in the World. I cliped out an article like in April or something that said that G.Bush2 wanted to make Schools Seperate from Boys and Girls. Do you think you would see something like that in a USA newspaper? Especially this clip, being a Local paper, do you think it would be in a Local paper in North America? Maybe 1:10000 ?

quote:

"The important thing is not to stop questioning."


-Albert Einstein

From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 19 September 2002 12:30 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Creeping despotism?:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/Partridge091902/partridge091902.html


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
SuperGimp
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posted 19 September 2002 01:25 PM      Profile for SuperGimp     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am not sure why (have read numerous theories) --but there is a huge hate-the-government streak in America that stretches back to the old west and the civil war. That, along with what Josh is saying, gives me hope. Bumper stickers such as "To err is human, to really screw things up takes government" are popular here in the south. A large number of Americans have never voted, NOT out of apathy, as the goody-goodies assume, but out of HATRED for GOVERNMENT, the way people hate cops, bureaucratic meddlers and authority. There is an old punchline in these parts that comes from an ancient joke about finding feds at the moonshine still: "If yew guv'mint, yew gonna carry yore ass home inna bucket."

I meditate on that line frequently, and hope people will sooner or later get fed up, as they did with Nixon, and let GWB carry his ass home inna bucket.

I liked Flowers By Irene's post on the other thread about the break-up of the US empire, and think that is the best hope for us now.

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: SuperGimp ]


From: Dixie-USA | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 19 September 2002 06:58 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I am not sure why (have read numerous theories) --but there is a huge hate-the-government streak in America that stretches back to the old west and the civil war.

And well before that. Gary Wills has written a superb book on this topic, which exists in paperback, too. It is called "A Necessary Evil", and I highly recommend it.

http://www.historyuniverse.com/bookstore2/0684844893AMUS138735.shtml


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 19 September 2002 07:38 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, Jeff, an excellent book. Of course Wills argues for a positive view of government's role in the political economy. Pro and anti-government positions often tend to cut both ways.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
FreeStuff
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posted 04 October 2002 04:06 AM      Profile for FreeStuff     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like the title of your board. I'm afraid of americans too and I am an american. hehe

I'm also a newbie and this is my first post. So I'll feel priviledged and you can feel priviledged and then we'll both feel priviledged.

F.S.


From: West Coast, USA | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 04 October 2002 11:50 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Privileged to meet you, indeed.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 04 October 2002 11:57 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Welcome, FreeStuff! Loved your movie from the other thread.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 04 October 2002 12:15 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Another Beverly Hillser! Welcome aboard.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 04 October 2002 02:09 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Off topic from fear of Americans, but Doc's White Rose site is excellent - one can't keep a dry eye reading the poems.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged

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