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Author Topic: Unatural Organism
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 14 January 2003 11:15 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The World’s First Truly Unnatural Organism

quote:
E. coli is notorious for its ability to quickly reproduce, which could conjure images of mutant bacteria running wild. "We crippled the organism's ability to biosynthesize leucine [one of the 20 essential amino acids] to avoid any risk that the organism could propagate outside a controlled lab setting," Anderson says. "Our unnatural organism will always live in the lab. We have no intention of putting it out in the wild or in commercial products where it could 'get out.'"

That's so reassuring considering the next paragraph:

quote:
How this organism behaves in future experiments will determine, in part, where the research goes from here. "We are now focusing on more 'useful' unnatural amino acids such as ketone- and PEG-containing amino acids," Anderson says. PEG stands for polyethylene glycol, a polymer that can be connected to proteins used in medicines to enhance their therapeutic value. "I don't think it is at all unrealistic to imagine that in the not-too-distant future there will be a transgenic goat that can biosynthesize a PEG amino acid and incorporate it into therapeutic proteins secreted into the animal's milk," Anderson says. "We are just beginning to look at the applications, but we have many projects in the works."

I am the furthest thing from a Ludite but I see where this research could be quite dangerous. The researchers seem to recognize this, but are forging ahead because of the great potential for new fundamental knowledge.

We are making new types of organisms here which might be very much better adapted than us poor 20 acid types. If it, or its soon to be manufactured brothers "gets out" it may very well cause ecological catastrophe.


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 15 January 2003 12:08 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm reminded of the book "Jurasic Park" where the fictional scientists used lysine defficiency to ensure that the dinosaurs would never escape to reproduce on thier own.

The point of Creighton's book,(other than bofo box office) is that even if he couldn't explain it scientifically, (chaos theory simplified to Murphy's law was a bit much) life has a way of, well surviving against our controls.

And of course, there is Murphy's law.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 15 January 2003 02:29 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tommy, you actually read a Creighton book all the way through?
From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 15 January 2003 02:57 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've read worse. There were those post "Pillars of the Earth" Follet books I got suckered into buying.

No point in reading master works all the time; it's too intimidating. Pop fiction, on the other hand, is VERY inspiring: "Hey! I can write as bad as this!"

But you bring up a good point. On one hand, there seems to be a luddite faction opposing GE at every turn and shouting "FRANKENFOOD!" and I don't identify with them too well.

I think there's a lot of potential promise in this field of research that could positively impact the human condition from angles such as food production, environmental health and of course medicine.

But on the other hand, the profit motive behind this kind of research could-- will-- lead to errors and even willfull misconduct.

It's a technology that should not be allowed to be kept out of the public forum, nor out of strict government regulation.


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 15 January 2003 03:26 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
DNA might turn out to be the ultimate nano-machine. If our knowledge becomes sophisticated enough we might be able to make anything with DNA - not just organs and babies but computers, optics and machine parts. With virtually unlimited applications this kind of research is going to go forward.


This particular experiment, however, tickled my spidey sense. Up till now all organisms on this planet have gotten by on those 20 amino acids. Altering this fundamental fact seems like taking a jump off a cliff into an unknowable future. While this might not be playing God, it sure is playing Gaea.

I did manage to read Andromeda Strain all the way through and I've got a feeling you can write better than that Tommy. But when are we going to see it? The movie version I liked though. I thought it was a pretty good thriller.


From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 15 January 2003 04:55 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Tommy, you actually read a Creighton book all the way through?

*cough* the guy's name is printed on the front cover of the book. Please to be checking it.

As for genetic engineering, I used to be far more a fan of it than I am today, if only because of the overenthusiastic boosterism I see among prominent proponents of it. There's a huge difference between the discovery that one could split an atom, and the discovery that one can alter the way organic life works.

Splitting the atom, while destructive and so on, is something that is separate from us and only happens if we make it happen. Period. A human's decision is intimately linked to the explosion of a nuclear bomb or the "on" button on a nuclear reactor.

Altering the genetic code for organic life is a whole separate ball of wax. We are, essentially, altering genetic cousins of ourselves, since all organic life on Earth shares some kind of relationship with all other organic life, being as our million-year-old ancestors were wee prokaryotes floating in an ocean.

Thus, alterations to the genes of organic life act more like the effect one sees when pushing down on a flexible piece of rubber. The dimple isn't sharp; it's widespread and the curve is gentle, peaking at your fingertip. A nuclear bomb, by contrast, is like poking a needle into the rubber. The point of depression is miniscule, and the impact is not diffuse.

This difference arises because of the complex interrelationships that exist between various animals, plants and bacteria, known as the ecosystem. Introducing organic life to an ecosystem not previously adapted to the presence of that life will disrupt that ecosystem. How this will affect things "down the road" is not clear. In this case there is a very indirect relationship between the decision to, say, alter the genes of an animal to output a new amino acid, and the creation of completely new environmental niches for new animal species thousands or hundreds of thousands of years hence.

Whether this is for good or ill for humanity is not known because we have such short time horizons compared to the slow workings of natural selection.

But I have digressed, I believe.

My basic point is that genetic engineering needs to be approached with caution, not exuberance, and where it becomes possible to alter ecosystems rather than simply experiment in a lab, that's also where governments need to act in the public interest and insist on third-party monitoring of the effects on an ecosystem from new forms of organic life, and to insist on the destruction of the new species if harm is portended.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TommyPaineatWork
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posted 15 January 2003 06:18 AM      Profile for TommyPaineatWork     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Crichton. A hack by any other name would smell as sweat.

I guess researchers are partial to E-coli because it reproduces so quickly, and is so omnipresent. But these qualities that make it such a handy research tool also makes it a dangerous one, I think.

I wonder if there's a bacterium that exists which reproduces quickly for research, but doesn't show much ability to reproduce in normal conditions.

I'm thinking of those wee beasties just discovered deep in the earth's crust. Maybe it would complicate lab work because they'd have to be kept and worked on in special conditions, but at least it would be safer.

[ 15 January 2003: Message edited by: TommyPaineatWork ]


From: London | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 15 January 2003 03:07 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh. Unnatural ORGANISM. Okay.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 15 January 2003 03:10 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hell, Michelle -- you beat me to it.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 15 January 2003 03:24 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, well we're both working 'lance's side of the street, aren't we?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 15 January 2003 04:27 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hey, how else am I going to get people to read a science thread?
From: The right choice - Iggy Thumbscrews for Liberal leader | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 15 January 2003 04:32 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I guess you have to make it an organic experience!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 15 January 2003 10:59 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Oh. Unnatural ORGANISM. Okay.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
rbil
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posted 15 January 2003 11:22 PM      Profile for rbil     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
OH o-r-g-a-n-i-s-m. I thought this thread was about an unnatural orgasm and was curious what that could be, thinking I might have missed some of life's sweet mysteries.

Cheers


From: IRC: irc.bcwireless.net JOIN: #linuxtalk | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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