Author
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Topic: NDP Needs to Cut Ties to Unions
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lonewolf2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10589
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posted 11 December 2005 06:00 PM
I know there are other threads talking specifically about Buzz Hargroves's backstabbing Time to deal with the Buzz problem - Mel Watkins Deailing with the Mayor Miller Problem Buzz Off Basil ... but as I think about it, tieing a political party wanting to represent all Canadians to one side, does not make sense. This is like the Liberal party in Ontario taking the side of either the Police Board of the City of Toronto or the Police Association as they are negotiating a contract. It wouldn't make sense. Arms length is needed. Plus, a party with parliamentary power that gives preference to only a fraction of their electorate is doomed to fail. I put it to you that unions are there to act in the interests of their members, no one else, not society as a whole, nor the community. They selfishly protect their workers' rights and only come together with other unions when interests coincide. quote: "Our members will vote how they'll vote," said James Clancy, president of N.U.P.G.E. National Union of Public and General Employees or the United Food and Commercial Workers union. "They're too smart, and I don't need to tell my members how to vote. They're going to make up their own minds."
CityPulse storyThe following shows how silly the pursuit of union endorsement has become: quote: Layton told the crowd at the brunch event that he was proud to sign the declaration, adding that being able to join a union "is a basic human right that goes together with freedom of expression and freedom of association that is fundamental to a democracy.”The competition between the Liberals and the N.D.P. for union support has also come down to fashion. The image of Martin sporting a C.A.W. jacket was mirrored by Layton donning two C.A.W. bomber jackets and a N.U.P.G.E. coat over the past few days. Despite their leader’s endorsement, some C.A.W. members rallied around Layton at an event Friday night in Windsor, but it still isn’t clear just how much of an effect Hargrove’s love of the Liberals will have on the N.D.P. at the polls.
[ 11 December 2005: Message edited by: lonewolf2 ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2005
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radiorahim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2777
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posted 11 December 2005 06:58 PM
quote: I put it to you that unions are there to act in the interests of their members, no one else, not society as a whole, nor the community. They selfishly protect their workers' rights and only come together with other unions when interests coincide.
Bullshit! Absolute bullshit! The labour movement has been involved in just about every single struggle for change in the history of this country...whether it be the struggle for medicare, pensions, women's rights, abortion rights, gay rights, anti-racism, peace and disarmament, international solidarity, human rights at home and abroad etc. Right now for example the Canadian Labour Congress is running online campaigns dealing with both sweatshops and women's equality rights. If you go to other union websites you'll find all kinds of other campaigns that have nothing to do with that immediate union's membership.
From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002
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lonewolf2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10589
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posted 11 December 2005 07:23 PM
Yes, I would agree if we were talking historically. The early union movement expedited all kinds of human and labour rights.However, what I have seen and experienced with today's unions is that they are very selfishly in the interests of their own members (not a bad thing). Getting more than a few unions to be involved in coalition campaigns for the greater good is not today's reality. If it were - we wouldn't see unions backing away from supporting the NDP as they are.
From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2005
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windsorworker
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9686
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posted 11 December 2005 08:50 PM
quote: However, what I have seen and experienced with today's unions is that they are very selfishly in the interests of their own members (not a bad thing).Getting more than a few unions to be involved in coalition campaigns for the greater good is not today's reality.
Come to Windsor and see what we have done for our community ....the first thing that comes to mind is the 250 million CAW locals 444 and 250 thousand dollars donated for a new MRI machine at one of our hospitals or the millions yes millions we donate yearly to the United way.Have you ever heard of our social justice fund which helps thousands of communities and people around the world?Please don't ever say unions are self serving yes we do take care of our members but we also build and strengthen our communities and country we live in.Also most of the coalitions in our community anyway have many union mebers if not all union members on them.I myself belong to the health coalition.[ 11 December 2005: Message edited by: windsorworker ]
From: windsor | Registered: Jun 2005
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radiorahim
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2777
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posted 11 December 2005 09:04 PM
quote: Come to Windsor and see what we have done for our community
Exactly. Much as I might disagree with Buzz's actions this past week, the CAW has made enormous positive contributions to both the labour movement and the community at large. I've always admired the CAW and felt that in many ways its a model of what unions should be doing.
From: a Micro$oft-free computer | Registered: Jun 2002
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lonewolf2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10589
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posted 11 December 2005 09:30 PM
"Let's be clear" (who said that!)I'm not talking about charitable endeavours. Non-union corporations and rich individuals (philanthropists) have a history of donating to worthy causes like MRI's, hospital wings, etc. There are tax incentives there and it is a good thing. I am talking about POLITICAL SUPPORT for parties like the NDP and also for grassroots protests like when OCAP in Toronto campaigned to maintain special diet monies for the poor and hungry. As long as the NDP is seen as the 'lackey of labour' (as right-wingers and even some moderates would say, it will never be a truly universal and mainstream party. I KNOW it has its roots in labour. But changinfg with the times and new political realities might not be such a bad thing. Drop the "New" and call it the "Canadian Democratic Party". Don't give such special membership breaks to unions. You can still campaign for UNIVERSAL workers' rights. Then maybe the middle voters - the majority in Canada - will give more support (and stop labelling the NDP as 'communist-socialist-fascists' (as I've heard some new immigrants term it).
From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2005
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Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594
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posted 11 December 2005 10:39 PM
quote: Originally posted by the bard:
Unfortunately, the NDP has quite a history of doing this at the provincial level.
So lets hear how the damage in Ontario caused by 42 consecutuve years of conservative party rule, and then eight with liberals, was supposed to be undone by four years of NDP. Say it in no greater than five sentences, and at least make some reference to either Mulroney short-changing Rae's NDP by $4 Billion in annual transfers, or the "unforseen" $3 billion dollar annual budget deficit handed-off to Rae by the Peterson Liberals during what was one of the worst economic recessions in Canada since the 1930's. You might also include how the NDP actually spent some money in Northern Ontario on communities to experience clean, safe drinking water for the first time in Northern history. Affordable housing initiatives, basic water development and testing projects, anti-scab legislation and more - all cancelled by the Mike Harris uncommon nonsense revolution. So lets hear how four frickin years of the NDP resulted in Kaschewan and continuing third world conditions in this province, owned by conservatives and liberals for the past several glorious decades.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004
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the bard
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8375
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posted 11 December 2005 11:09 PM
It's funny how you seem to portray Bob Rae as this great progressive who was a victim prevented from carrying out his great vision. Certainly Rae himself doesn't seem to think so. Rae is a very conservative social democrat/neoliberal, and he's not apologetic at all about his political outlook.I'd love to say "social contract" but that's too easy. So how about the government's inability to extend spousal benefits to same-sex couples, opposed by such "progressives" as the Fantino-loving George Mammoliti and the crooked Tony Rizzo. It's a great example of running left, governing right. And certainly this can't be attributed to the worst recession since the 1930s or to transfer payment issues. Or how about their decision to hire welfare cops and feed into paranoia about "welfare fraud", exacerbated by the Harris Tories? I don't think it was a lack of transfer payments from Mulroney that made them do this.
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2005
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aka Mycroft
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6640
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posted 11 December 2005 11:13 PM
Or how about not even being able to go as far as moderate NDP governments in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and BC by bringing in public auto insurance?What are the Rae government's greatest legacies? Casinos, the 407 and private labs. Not exactly what you'd expect from a social democratic government. [ 11 December 2005: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004
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Tory Spelling
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10528
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posted 11 December 2005 11:25 PM
The NDP is tied to the unions because the unions send cash to the NDP.A Harper majority government, even a minority one would ban donations to political parties by corporations and unions. Only individuals could donate and that would be limited to $1,000 per person. Problem solved.
From: Beverly Hills | Registered: Oct 2005
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windsorworker
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9686
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posted 11 December 2005 11:26 PM
quote: However, what I have seen and experienced with today's unions is that they are very selfishly in the interests of their own members (not a bad thing).Getting more than a few unions to be involved in coalition campaigns for the greater good is not today's reality. If it were - we wouldn't see unions backing away from supporting the NDP as they are.
The NDP would die a quick death without unions,we are members of the NDP we are organizers of the NDP we built the NDP!!We give a shit load of money to the NDP as well our local candidates would not survive without CAW support through manpower and money! Maybe what unions should do is take back our party since many of us sit on riding associations.The thought of someone wanting to kick founding members of the NDP party out is unbelievable to me.
From: windsor | Registered: Jun 2005
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lonewolf2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10589
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posted 12 December 2005 09:34 PM
More proof that unions not helping NDP cause...Buzz Screws Nash Also another thread on "INCREASING Union Support" reports: quote: A recent poll of voting intentions by The Strategic Counsel suggests the NDP enjoys only marginally more support among union members than Canadians in general. The Nov. 24-27 poll of 1,500 Canadians identified 326 labour union members. Of this group, 23 per cent said they planned to vote NDP (compared with 17 per cent among the general population); 19 per cent would vote Conservative and 30 per cent would vote Liberal.
increasing union support threadThen there's this blog report Give Buzz the Boot quote: Giving the Boot to Buzz The NDP released their TV ads today, and one involves a Christmas present falling from the sky (corporate tax cuts for Liberal friends), a piece of coal (for the rest of us), and a boot (presumably for the Liberal Party). So when NDP leader Jack Layton landed in Windsor after CAW President Buzz Hargrove gushed about Paul Martin for the second time in a week, one reporter asked him if he wanted to "give the boot to Buzz too?"Layton tried to run away from the question all day, not wanting to be dragged into an insult match with the union leader. Hargrove may be a card-carrying member of the NDP, but he certainly isn't doing any favours for his party. It must be something about Fridays, because last Friday Hargrove gave Paul Martin a union jacket and told members to vote for the NDP in ridings where they are leading, and vote for the Liberals everywhere else. "It's not creating confusion," Layton insisted."If you vote NDP you'll get an NDP MP." Hmmmm. Then this Friday, Hargove did it again. Appearing at an event with Martin at the Daimler-Chrysler plant in Windsor, Hargrove said, "We have two NDP members in town and I've been instructed in advance not to hug you (Martin), even though I feel like hugging you." Let's just say when Layton landed in Windsor several hours later he didn't feel like a group hug with Hargrove. In this campaign Stephen Harper has Ralph Klein, and Jack Layton is discovering he's got Buzz.
[ 12 December 2005: Message edited by: lonewolf2 ]
From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2005
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ceti
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7851
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posted 16 December 2005 01:27 PM
Ok, Bob Rae sucked and still sucks, but he was handed a bare cupboard with a vicious recession, hostile federal government, and the passage of the FTA that was beginning to eat heavily into the manufacturing base of Ontario. In fact the NDP was faced by a Perfect Storm, and got battered pretty badly as a result. The issue about unions is more about their shrinking base rather than the alliance with the NDP per se. The "selfish" behaviour of some (public sector unions especially) indeed has to be offset by looking as working Canadians as whole rather than strategically circling the wagons to protect a set of workers against the interests of others. However, this is not the unions' fault, but how capitalism works. Pretty elementary really. So the NDP is the only party at this time to be able to take the particularist demands of unions, and magnify them to represent the needs of all Canadians. As such, the alliance is vital.
From: various musings before the revolution | Registered: Jan 2005
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