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Author Topic: Religion versus Religiosity
Cougyr
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posted 01 November 2004 02:48 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The thread on Atheism and Christianity (which really should be Atheism versus Religion) reminds me of what I see as the biggest problem with religion: religiosity. They both use the same language. The religiose claim to be religious, but have the zeal of gangsters. Religiosity has more to do with belonging to an exclusive group than it does with religion.

As examples, I give you Thomas Merton who, as a Trappist monk, described a buddest monk of his acquaintance as "my spiritual brother." Contrast this with GW Bush who says, "You're either with us or against us." Bush is not religious; he is religiose.

From the dictionary :

quote:
re·li·gi·ose
Etymology: religion + 1-ose
: RELIGIOUS; especially : excessively, obtrusively, or sentimentally religious

From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
miles
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posted 01 November 2004 02:51 PM      Profile for miles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cougyr:
The thread on Atheism and Christianity (which really should be Atheism versus Religion) reminds me of what I see as the biggest problem with religion: religiosity.

great thougth cougyr.

as my grandfather used to say to me: "i wash religiously every day, but that does not make me religious only smell better"

[ 01 November 2004: Message edited by: miles ]


From: vaughan | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 01 November 2004 03:12 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Jesus, it seems to me, didn't think much of the religiosity of his day. Good insight.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 01 November 2004 03:19 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In many respects, religiosity is built into many religions, insofar as one of the tenets of many religions is the "need" to proselytize. If they'd just shut their eucharist-holes and get on with their own praying then I wouldn't have an issue with them, but when their God commands them to be as frickin' annoying as possible in their attempts to either bring me into the fold, or sanitize and bowdlerize the world into a Christian paradise of blandness then I get bored, fast.

That's one reason I like Jews. They worship, they worry about the afterlife, they do some things and don't do others, but most importantly they don't act like if I don't get into heaven, they won't either. So they don't seem to need to restrict what I can watch on television, they don't need to boycott companies that sponsor television shows where homosexuals are treated with respect, and they basically don't get all Nosey Parker about my business. All religions should be like that, under penalty of law.


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 01 November 2004 03:38 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
In many respects, religiosity is built into many religions, insofar as one of the tenets of many religions is the "need" to proselytize. If they'd just shut their eucharist-holes and get on with their own praying then I wouldn't have an issue with them, but when their God commands them to be as frickin' annoying as possible in their attempts to either bring me into the fold, or sanitize and bowdlerize the world into a Christian paradise of blandness then I get bored, fast.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Those wackos who come to my door have very little knowledge of real religion, or even the Bible; they just want me to join their club.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 01 November 2004 04:05 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to agree. I dislike all the door-to-door, street corner and TV evangelism. I think such time (and money) would be better served helping those in need -- poor, homeless, addicted, ill.

When I went to church in my teens and early 20s, there was a song that contained this line: "and they'll know we are Christians by our love." I can't help but think of how far the church collectively has drifted from that place.


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 01 November 2004 04:23 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A few years ago I had some discussions about this with a fairly-decent evangelical guy. He just couldn't grasp why evangelizing to people who already have non-Christian religious beliefs, no matter how "politely" done, was very offensive and insulting.
From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 01 November 2004 04:43 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:
He just couldn't grasp why evangelizing to people who already have non-Christian religious beliefs, no matter how "politely" done, was very offensive and insulting.

Which says to me he really doesn't get New Testament theology.


From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 01 November 2004 05:12 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
His church is a small, evangelical fundamentalist Christian one. I'm in no position to evaluate their theology. If I recall correctly he had some New Testament quotes that his church interprets as requiring evangelism and missionary work, but I really have no interest in anyone's justification for trespassing on other people's rights or beliefs.
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paxamillion
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posted 01 November 2004 08:45 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Me either. There are simply too many needs.
From: the process of recovery | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
brian2
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posted 01 November 2004 09:11 PM      Profile for brian2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
He just couldn't grasp why evangelizing to people who already have non-Christian religious beliefs, no matter how "politely" done, was very offensive and insulting.

The same evangelizing is done every day on this board. It's done with political belief, social beliefs, gender beliefs, etc. Why would one be offended and insulted, when they can "politely" refuse the conversation?

From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cougyr
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posted 01 November 2004 09:17 PM      Profile for Cougyr     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brian2:
Why would one be offended and insulted, when they can "politely" refuse the conversation?

That's the problem. Some evangelists don't get the hint of a polite refusal. The last one to come to my door wouldn't take "No." for an answer. I finally got rude and slammed the door. I didn't feel proud of myself, but she just would not go away.


From: over the mountain | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
paxamillion
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posted 01 November 2004 09:23 PM      Profile for paxamillion   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brian2:
Why would one be offended and insulted, when they can "politely" refuse the conversation?

Because, frankly, they just don't want to hear it -- whatever the reason. Jesus anticipated this in his instructions to the disciples when he sent them out for a time. Some of his parables also recognize this.


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Mazie
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posted 01 November 2004 09:29 PM      Profile for Mazie        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I haven't had to much problem with anyone since told them that I couldn't take their preaching seriously because the bible had to much sex and violence and that I was a against all the war, plague, and pestulance their god was wont to cast about. I am much more in favour of peacefull co-existance. No, that book is so full of sexism and racism It's enough to make you "toss your cookies" I just can't read it, never mind believe.
From: Williams Lake, BC | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 02 November 2004 08:12 AM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brian2:

The same evangelizing is done every day on this board. It's done with political belief, social beliefs, gender beliefs, etc. Why would one be offended and insulted, when they can "politely" refuse the conversation?

I choose to come to this board, as does everyone else.

When someone came to the corner of Church and Wellesley a few years ago to tell us queers we were all sinners, someone went up to him and started shoving him until he shut up and left.

You don't come into someone's home, neighbourhood or country and start denigrating their beliefs and values. It's just plain rude.

The wonder isn't that some missionaries have been murdered. The wonder is that there were any who weren't.

Advertise, put up websites, publish. But don't target people for conversion. Let them come to you.

Apart from that, I can think of no missionary church that hasn't been involved in horrendous abuses of children. They simply have no moral standing. Their religions are quite simply evil and immoral.

Remember, we are not simply talking about going door to door. We are talking about people who go to impoverished countries and prey on vulnerable people. Evangelical churches are now targetting Muslims.

[ 02 November 2004: Message edited by: RealityBites ]


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
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posted 02 November 2004 10:11 AM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
The same evangelizing is done every day on this board. It's done with political belief, social beliefs, gender beliefs, etc. Why would one be offended and insulted, when they can "politely" refuse the conversation?

This board is "opt-in". Some Ned Flandroid around the water cooler telling you all about the day he "met Jesus" is "opt-out".

Both should be "opt-in".

[ 02 November 2004: Message edited by: Mr. Magoo ]


From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged

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