babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » Bierce: Devil incarnate or demon lexicographer?

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Bierce: Devil incarnate or demon lexicographer?
maestro
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7842

posted 03 November 2005 10:27 PM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Having posted a quote by Bierce in another forum, someone suggested that Bierce was both misogynist and racist.

Having read through Bierce's 'The Devil's Dictionary' several times, I find there are some things which may not be accepted today as humour.

At the same time, he was light years ahead of most writers of his time and place, and I think his dictionary provides some needed insight into the human condition. I don't believe he was racist, and if he was misogynist, it was a small part of his writing, and much less overt than that of others in his day.

As to his racism, I'll post his entry for Indian. I think this clearly shows his understanding of how native people were dealt with by Columbus and other Europeans. Remember that the 'Devil's Dictionary was written between 1881 and 1906:

quote:

Indian, n.

Columbus, sailing out of Spain,
Across old Neptune's wide domain,
Came, joyous, to an unknown land
And lightly leaped upon the strand,
Confronting there a painted cuss
In puris naturalibus -
An aboriginal and rude
But stately occidental dude.

'My friend you are discovered,' cried
Columb.
'Not much,' the man replied;
'Tis you, my hearty, who are found,
For I'm upon my native ground,
While you, by wave and tempest tossed,
Until you landed here, were lost.'

Well, well,' said Chris, 'We'll not dispute
Of that, for either way will suit.
You're chief, not doubt, of all this isle.'
And the man answered:
'I should smile.'

'So be it. Henceforth you shall reign
As vassal to the King Of Spain,
An Indian cazique no more,
But Viceroy of San Salvador.'

'You make me tired,' the native said;
'Get off the roof - go soak your head.
Your ignorance (upon my life
A man could cut it with a knife,
so dense it is) surpasses all

In daisiness except your gall,
And that's the worst I ever saw.
Now hear me fiddle on my jaw:
I'm not an Injun - I'm a pup,
Of Caribs from the grass roots up,
And this is not San Salvador,
but Anacanaguango.'
More,
No doubt, the fellow would have said
But Christofer cut off his head,
Which, feathered well on every lock,
Seemed, as it flew, a shuttlecock.


Notice the arrogance, and ignorance, of Columbus, and the final resort of violence when argument was not sufficient to the cause.

A more apt description of the 'discovery' of America would be hard to find in a textbook.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jeb616
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10841

posted 03 November 2005 10:36 PM      Profile for Jeb616   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Im not sure what you are speaking of, but I agree Columbus sucks.
From: Polar Bunker | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7024

posted 04 November 2005 12:20 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jeb616:
Im not sure what you are speaking of, but I agree Columbus sucks.

Cincinnati is no great shakes, either.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 04 November 2005 12:30 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But as everyone knows, Cleveland rocks.
From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 04 November 2005 02:55 AM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, all the young dudes know it anyway.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 04 November 2005 07:26 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have been a fan of Bierce ever since I first ran across An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. I was later -- many years later -- to run across it yet again, this time disguised (dare I say "ripped off"?) as the 1990 movie Jacob's Ladder.

Needless to say, I am also a fan of The Devil's Dictionary...

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6441

posted 04 November 2005 09:59 AM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Not a misogynist - a misanthrope.
From: Prince Edward County ON | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 04 November 2005 10:07 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, as long as he hated everybody equally... that's the main thing.
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 04 November 2005 10:34 AM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ronb:
Well, all the young dudes know it anyway.

Especially if they came all the way from Memphis.


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6943

posted 04 November 2005 11:19 AM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I found this in the on-line edition of Devil's Dictionary:

quote:
NEGRO, n.
The piece de resistance in the American political problem. Representing him by the letter n, the Republicans begin to build their equation thus: "Let n = the white man." This, however, appears to give an unsatisfactory solution.

If my reading of this is correct("=" is a pun with the second meaning being "have equal rights to") it seems to me that Bierce is against equality for African-Americans.

Then again, I wouldn't base my opinion of a social commentator entirely on his opinion about one particular issue, noxious though that opinion may be.


From: Asia | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
bittersweet
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2474

posted 04 November 2005 12:07 PM      Profile for bittersweet     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Reads to me he's likely saying it's unsatisfactory to the Republicans. As in, they try to equate "negro" with white man, and it just doesn't compute. That would make the opinion consistent with the one of Columbus.

Bierce has worthwhile things to say. On religion, and some other things, I happen to think he's a blowhard. But blowhards can be fun.


From: land of the midnight lotus | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 04 November 2005 01:48 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bierce published that in 1911, when the Republicans were still the party of Lincoln, and the Democrats, at least in the South (but aided by the Congress, viz., the Posse Comitatus Act), had done about everything they could to prevent equality and keep slavery alive in other forms, i.e. the share-cropping system, Jim Crow laws, etc.

So I don't think Bierce is saying the solution is unsatisfactory to the Republicans, as much as to the bulk of the (white) American body politic.

But irony is tricky, and so it's difficult to know just what he meant, without knowing more about Bierce himself (or about the contemporary political context). He could have been a racist, but I wouldn't conclude so just from that entry.

[ 04 November 2005: Message edited by: 'lance ]


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 04 November 2005 02:30 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, if Bierce was a racist, he had an odd way of demonstrating it. He fought for the North in the civil war, and fought bravely as a member of the Ninth Regiment, Indiana Volunteers. He won the temporary rank of major by the war's end, and was seriously wounded during the battle of Kennesaw Mountain, Georgia. He also fought at Philippi, Girard Hill, Shiloh, Stones River, Cornith, Missionary Ridge, Chickamauga and Pickett's Mill.

After the civil war, he became a writer and journalist, and eventually vanished in 1913 while attempting to join the revolutionary forces of Pancho Villa in Mexico.

Doesn't sound like a racist to me...

[ 04 November 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6477

posted 04 November 2005 03:51 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heph, not everyone who fought for the North did it to free the slaves. Your facts about him are interesting, but prove nothing about whether or not he was racist.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 04 November 2005 04:10 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I don't think it's possible to *ever* prove it "beyond a shadow of a doubt", as it were...
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 04 November 2005 04:31 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Conflicting viewpoints on Bierce's view of "the races"...

Allen Guelzo writes,

quote:
It was a brilliant Union victory, but what Bierce remembered in particular was the performance of the 13th Colored Infantry. "Seeing the darkies go in on our left," Bierce wrote, "I was naturally interested and observed them closely. Better fighting was never done." Bierce, something of a closet racist, was amazed at the vigor with which the black infantry rose to charge.


... but gives nothing substantial to back up that little slur.

Sarah Olexsey, meanwhile, points out,

quote:
Problems arose, however, when Bierce refused to write racist comments in his columns. His column was known as "The Prattler" and was very liberal about race and nationality. Bierce attacked the injustices against various groups including Chinese, Jews, and African Americans. Bierce believed that all mankind is evil and stupid regardless of race or religion. However, Pixley constantly requested anti-Irish and anti-Catholic attacks. This caused great friction between the two (Saunders 27-29).


As I said, it is likely impossible to prove now with any degree of certainty, but based on what evidence I have ever been able to find, I don't think Bierce was any more "racist" than someone like Mark Twain, and indeed one could argue that he showed a great deal of sympathy and understanding for minority groups, including non-whites.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 04 November 2005 05:05 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Bierce was a fiercely funny, insightful, abrasive, fearless writer. If he did in fact say "darkies" back in 1860-something, I'm inclined to file it in the same drawer as Tommy Douglas' brief endorsement of eugenics. The question, to me, is not "did Bierce say 'darkie' back when everyone did?" but "would he say it if he were alive today?". And I doubt he would.
From: ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°`°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ,¸_¸,ĝ¤°°¤ĝ, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Contrarian
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6477

posted 04 November 2005 05:15 PM      Profile for Contrarian     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That post is a lot more convincing, Heph. And I have a very old relative who was quite surprised some years ago to be told that it was not considered polite to describe someone as a "darky"; my relative thought that it was in fact the polite word to use.
From: pretty far west | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
jrootham
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 838

posted 04 November 2005 05:30 PM      Profile for jrootham     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I really have to think that "The Devil's Dictionary" is satire. Attacking people for what they say in satire is probably best described as "not clear on the concept". I mean Eric Bogle wrote a song called "I Hate Wogs", and trust me, the man is not a racist.

The other writings look a lot clearer.

The "closet racist" comment is just silly I think. There were no closet racists in 1910. There were probably closet anti racists.


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
'lance
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1064

posted 04 November 2005 05:34 PM      Profile for 'lance     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
And I have a very old relative who was quite surprised some years ago to be told that it was not considered polite to describe someone as a "darky"; my relative thought that it was in fact the polite word to use.

When I was a kid, we had editions of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, probably printed in the 1940s or 1950s, in which "darky" had been substituted for "nigger."


From: that enchanted place on the top of the Forest | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
maestro
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7842

posted 04 November 2005 08:54 PM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's Bierce on the concept of property.

quote:
Land, n. A part of the earth's surface, considered as property. The theory that land is property subject to private ownership and control is the foundation of modern society, and is eminently worthy of the superstructure.

Carried to its logical conclusion, it means that some have the right to prevent others from living; for the right to own implies the right exclusively to occupy; and in fact laws of trespass are enacted wherever property in land is recognized.

It follows that if the whole area of terra firma is owned by A, B, and C, there will be no place for D, E, and F, to be born, or, born as trespassers, to exist.

A life on the ocean wave,
A home on the rolling deep.
For the spark that nature give
I have there the right to keep.

They give me the cat-'o-nine
Whenever I go ashore
Then ho! for the flashing brine -
I'm a natural commodore!



From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
voice of the damned
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6943

posted 04 November 2005 10:37 PM      Profile for voice of the damned     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
not everyone who fought for the North did it to free the slaves. Your facts about him are interesting, but prove nothing about whether or not he was racist.

Yeah, Mark Twain was in the Confederate army(for a brief period), but was later quite scathing in his attacks on anti-black racism. With the Civil War(as with most wars) alot of people probably just thought "hmm there's a war on, my country is under attack, I should sign up", without giving much thought to the underlying issues.


From: Asia | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca