For example, the speaker is forced to reveal the gender of the ‘friend’ they are going out for coffee with, either to their parents who may not allow their children to date or to their significant other who may or may not have reason to be jealous.

I also notice that it is sometimes difficult to define when to use formal or informal dialogue when speaking to or of certain people. It is subjective at what point to decide it is correct to switch from formal to informal usage. It seems to me that the choice can reveal a large amount by way of the comfort levels of the speaker with the subject.

In the second case, when you say formal/informal dialogue, are you referring to the familiar/formal 2nd person pronouns? Because that varies a lot among the languages that use them, and from society to society where the same language is spoken. I found German was very clear-cut about the rules surrounding Du/Sie whereis in French, which I speak natively, in some instances, I'm still sometimes unsure of whether I'm on a tu/vous relationship with someone, and in those cases, tend to either avoid a direct use, or just jump in and choose one or the other and see how that goes. I did that with my new eldery neighbours last year, when I got around to finally settling it.

The forms thou/thee/thy/thine were the informal 2nd-person form that you would use with friends, spouse, children, etc. (and, interestingly, in prayer). The you/you/your/yours forms were used for 2nd-person plural and for more formal situations with elders, adults meriting respect, etc.

quote:

---

I'm still sometimes unsure of whether I'm on a tu/vous relationship with someone, and in those cases, tend to either avoid a direct use, or just jump in and choose one or the other and see how that goes.

---

That's pretty much how I've been dealing with those situation too, or following another person's lead. But being uncomfortable with the language to begin with I sometimes find myself backing away from uncertain situations like that.

quote:

---

Dee, are you originally from Canada? I find it odd that you didn't study French in school if that is the case. The "problems" you raise are identical in French and Spanish, though the formal "you" form is different. French-speakers find English too literal and not allowing for ambiguity. Even if you don't remember your school French, I'm surprised you don't remember that structural point.

---

I did take some French in jr high/high school. But I grew up in small town Alberta and French was not offered in my school until grade 7. Even then it was optional. Also it was structured poorly so that I was forced to take it in the first semester one year and second the next. By the time I took the latter class I was completely lost. And, being a teenager in central Alberta I figured I'd never need French anyway so I only took it until grade 10 (at which point my parents stopped forcing me to go). I regretted dropping it almost as soon as I graduated and moved to Calgary.

That being said, I was also thinking of French when I wrote my first post. I just used Spanish as an example because that is what I am focusing on now.

I find it interesting that you said that French speakers find that English does not allow for ambiguity. How so?

[ 28 April 2004: Message edited by: dee ]