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Author Topic: ONDP Leadership III
aka Mycroft
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posted 03 November 2008 06:07 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From NDP Left blog

quote:

The NDP's Socialist Caucus hosted the first (unofficial) all candidates debate leading to next March's provincial leadership convention this past Saturday at OISE in Toronto. (Just to clarify, the individuals associated with this site are not affiliated to the Socialist Caucus) We'll provide some commentary on the candidates and the debate in the coming days but first, here's a transcript of the opening remarks. I made a recording of the debate so if anyone knows anything about uploading audio files and can give me some tips please email me. Each candidate was given two minutes to make their opening comments

Peter Tabuns:

Good afternoon everyone. It’s extraordinary to me that we’re all here in the aftermath of an amazing event and that’s George Bush partially nationalizing some of the biggest banks on this planet. Who’d had thought it eh? But in fact think about that reality. Think about what it says to conventional orthodoxy. For over 20 years we’ve been told that governments have to get out of the way; let the market do it’s work; don’t interfere - and look at what we’ve got. We’ve got jobs vanishing as unregulated free trade does its work. We’ve got a climate crisis that is not being dealt with. We’re in a situation where people’s life savings and retirement funds are confronted with the biggest financial crisis since the great depression. We’re seeing poverty deepen as the income gap grows. For the NDP these issues are a challenge - they’re a challenge that we’re going to meet because we know that at the other end we have a government in this province that’s missing in action, that’s not willing to use the levers of government - regulation, taxes, incentives, procurement policy - to take on the climate and jobs crisis. For us there’s an opportunity to put forward solutions that show that government is central to making a society work, central to making sure that we live decent lives and so I’m looking forward this afternoon to talking to you about the solutions that we here in the NDP can put forward. Thank you.

Michael Prue:

Good afternoon sisters and brothers. My name is Michael Prue, I’m the Member of Provincial Parliament for Beaches-East York. I have been in politics now for some 20 years and over those 20 years there’s something that I have taken and I think that you know. The only way that we are ever going to get results is for our party to get into power. The only way we’re ever going to have a truly NDP government and a socialist government that all of you in this room want is for us to be in power. The only way we’re going to get that power is if we are willing ourselves to make the change. Within the Socialist Caucus to change the NDP; within the NDP to make the changes that are necessary to take us from third party with only 10 seats to government and the only way we’re going to do that is if we’re willing to look very strongly at each and every one of our policies that have been the cornerstone of the NDP in the past. I’m looking forward to the people in this room using all of the strength and all of the energy you have to argue those policy changes when we get to our convention in March. It is that policy change which is going to change the outcome and change the results of the NDP. I am running for leader because I believe that by being leader I can be the agent of those changes that all of you will be so instrumental in making over the coming months and I promise you as leader we will have results we’ve never seen before. Results to our party; results to the economy; results to politics; results to the number of people we elect and most importantly results for Ontarians from all sectors from all across the province looking for what they need. I ask for your support come March 6th.

Andrea Horwath:

Thanks very much and good afternoon sisters and brothers and thank you very much to the Socialist Caucus most importantly because I believe this is not just a debate but an opportunity for dialogue and discussion and I look very much forward to the rest of the afternoon. I plan to lead Ontario’s New Democrats and some people might think that’s a little bit presumptuous. What makes the youngest member of caucus, a mom from Hamilton, think she can actually even apply for the top job? Well I might not have been at Queen’s Park for the longest amount of time but I’ve been there long enough to know that things are not working. I spent the summer and the spring talking to New Democrats across this province and it became very very clear that it’s time for new voices. It’s time for change. It’s time for new democrats in government. I want to work with all of you to get that change that we need here in Ontario. To give you some brief background about myself I didn’t grow up wanting to be a politician, I grew up in and around Hamilton. My dad was an autoworker and his good job as an autoworker gave me a chance to go to university. But like most working class kids before university I had to work. When I was 15, I got my first job, like most kids - retail, food service. I thought I landed the greatest job in my life when I got employed in an industrial dry cleaning factory and now looking back I realize how unsafe that factory was and I know that’s where I get my passion for things like occupational health and safety and unionization because that plant was not unionized and the workers there every day could not go to work knowing that they would come home as well as when they left the house. You know, when I think about what we need in this province I think about what I’ve learned because after university I spent most of my career as an organizer. I organized the Days of Action in Hamilton, I’ve organized co-op housing in Welland and that’s what I believe we need in this party - we need organizers.

Gilles Bisson:

Good afternoon sisters and brothers, my name is Gilles Bisson, I’m the member for Timmins-James Bay and a proud New Democrat running for the leadership of the party. I believe that quite frankly if we want to make the changes that we have to make in this province we need to get into government and the way that we do that I think is fairly simple, we’ll talk about that through this whole debate. I’ve said in my campaign from the very outset that people in Ontario as across Canada have always given New Democrats credit when it comes to equity issues and when it comes to social policies. We are the party that developed health care. We are the party that championed labour rights. We are the party that championed many other rights that people now take for granted in society. But the one thing that people have a problem with is where we’re on on the economy. Now does that mean to say we have to become like Tony Blair? Absolutely not! But what we need to do is act like social democrats. We need to be serious on the issues of the economy from a social democratic perspective. We need to say to people directly in this province that there are solutions to the economic problems that we have today. We don’t have to do what George Bush is doing although he’s becoming a bit of a left-winger along with Mr. Sarkozy and a few others [laughter] one’s nationalizing banks, the other one is trying to regulate capitalism. I don’t know, I’m a bit confused. But I say that we as social democrats have to speak about the economy from our perspective. What are the issues that we need to deal with in order to make sure that people have jobs, that we have the money necessary to put food on the table, to raise our families, to do the things that we have to do and that we have equity and social justice in the economy and that we as governments have the money necessary to invest in key programs. Last point is we need to reform the internal parts of the party. We have big problems with fund-raising. I will talk about that a little later. But we need to restore to the riding associations the right to receive and collect money directly and then give a share back to the provincial party. Thank you brothers and sisters.



From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 03 November 2008 06:23 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Looking forward to the rest - I'm sure they said something concrete afterwards.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 03 November 2008 07:05 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Andrea Horwath will be holding an event on Friday in Hamilton. One can only speculate as to what she might be announcing.
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Wilf Day
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posted 03 November 2008 07:18 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
Andrea Horwath will be holding an event on Friday in Hamilton. One can only speculate as to what she might be announcing.

Unless one is the "host" of the event, as the Facebook page for the event says one is. In that case perhaps one already knows.

Perhaps to announce her logo?


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 03 November 2008 07:23 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think Wilf just owned you Scott
From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 03 November 2008 07:28 PM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All in good fun. Just playing along with the coy nature of leadership politics
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Bookish Agrarian
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posted 03 November 2008 07:31 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The first word that comes to mind when I think of you is not coy!

It would be great to have a re-cap for those who can't attend put would like to be there.


From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 03 November 2008 07:32 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[sorry, photos disappeared!]

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 03 November 2008 07:34 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How in the heck did you do that?
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unionist
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posted 03 November 2008 07:36 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[I guess they only stay up for a while]

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 03 November 2008 07:38 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay I surrender - you are clearly more cool than me. Way more.
From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 03 November 2008 07:38 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[Oh well, good things don't last I guess]

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 03 November 2008 07:41 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You're starting to freak me out.


From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 03 November 2008 07:45 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[sigh]

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 03 November 2008 07:47 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All right, BA, your admiration and wonderment have touched my heart.

Photofunia

Pretty wild stuff.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bookish Agrarian
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posted 03 November 2008 07:49 PM      Profile for Bookish Agrarian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cool
I like the picture of Peggy. I now know something I can do please my kids. Problem is they'll probably say - like duh Dad everyone knows how to do that.

From: Home of this year's IPM | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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posted 03 November 2008 07:51 PM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was very impressed unionist.
From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 03 November 2008 07:51 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

How did you know my eldest daughter showed me this??

Anyway, it's sort of a poor person's Photoshop - the result without the sweat and expertise. Tailor made for yours truly.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 03 November 2008 08:00 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If I start seeing Andrea Horwath everywhere in real life too, I know who to blame.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
RevolutionPlease
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posted 03 November 2008 09:00 PM      Profile for RevolutionPlease     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

How did you know my eldest daughter showed me this??

Anyway, it's sort of a poor person's Photoshop - the result without the sweat and expertise. Tailor made for yours truly.


Darn kids.

Words of warning.

Nice work Unionist.


From: Aurora | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
wage zombie
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posted 03 November 2008 09:25 PM      Profile for wage zombie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Are some of these candidates actually suggesting that the bailout was any kind of socialist victory?
From: sunshine coast BC | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 03 November 2008 09:36 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by wage zombie:
Are some of these candidates actually suggesting that the bailout was any kind of socialist victory?

No, but I think there is a word for it. Schadenfreude? I don't think Milton Friedman or his TINA groupees ever mentioned anything about nationalising banks to insulate them from free market forces.

[ 03 November 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 04 November 2008 03:35 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by wage zombie:
Are some of these candidates actually suggesting that the bailout was any kind of socialist victory?

Excellent question. The state rescuing its billionaire friends doesn't strike me as very socially progressive. I'll be impressed when they nationalize profitable levers of the economy. What exactly are these candidates saying anyway - that they approve of such grotesque measures?


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1948
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posted 04 November 2008 05:58 AM      Profile for 1948   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think the argument is that even the most ardent advocates of capitalism now admit that "laissez-faire" policies don't work and state intervention is required.

Of course, the next question is: what sort of state intervention?


From: Ontario | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 04 November 2008 02:00 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1948:
I think the argument is that even the most ardent advocates of capitalism now admit that "laissez-faire" policies don't work and state intervention is required.

Of course, the next question is: what sort of state intervention?


Jack and the NDP have laid it out for them, what should be done do build a green and competitive economy. But I think this would be a really good time to remind Jack of his comments of a few years ago, which is that the Bank of Canada could be used for better purposes. But even while the feds await a new international agreement on monetary management, there is so much more that could be done to advance Canada's old world economy in the mean time. Canada's two old line parties have led us down the wrong path since the 1980's.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lord Palmerston
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posted 04 November 2008 02:32 PM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So Fidel do you have a preference among the leadership candidates? Who do you support and why?
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 04 November 2008 04:07 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
They're all good. The problem is, a large minority of voting Ontarians have turned their backs on some most excellent political leaders of the past in favour of Bay Street friendlies. But I like Bisson for now and perhaps because he is from the North.

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 04 November 2008 07:07 PM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
So Fidel do you have a preference among the leadership candidates? Who do you support and why?

Why are you expecting anyone to declare a preference before the campaign has even started in earnest? No one has even released a platform yet.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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posted 05 November 2008 08:32 AM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by 1948:
I think the argument is that even the most ardent advocates of capitalism now admit that "laissez-faire" policies don't work and state intervention is required.

Of course, the next question is: what sort of state intervention?


And I agree with Unionist (oh my goddess!) and 1948. As one of the panelists, when I heard the candidates say this socialism related to banks, I just about fell off my chair, and side talked to another panelist that no, they socialized the debt onto the rest of us, but capitalism was left untouched.
Perhaps it was going for the quick soundbite, but they would have been better to state the obvious - corporate welfare for banks with no strings attached, and captialism for the rest of us - that's what we will do.
It was just a more obvious corp welfare but corp welfare just the same.


From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 05 November 2008 11:53 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
[thread drift] The problem with bank bailouts today is it's been done before. Various international leaders are saying enough is enough. The scope of the banking problem is appears larger than just a few mortgages gone bad in the U.S. I think they're looking at a Bretton Woods style international agreement on monetary management. Anyway, I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread topic, but we can try again.[/drift]
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 05 November 2008 07:39 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Did aka Mycroft ever get that debate audio posted?
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 06 November 2008 11:09 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Did aka Mycroft ever get that debate audio posted?

I've been able to get it converted into an MP3 file but I've had trouble uploading it. Does anyone have alternatives to BooMP3 or wiki upload?


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 06 November 2008 11:20 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by aka Mycroft:

I've been able to get it converted into an MP3 file but I've had trouble uploading it. Does anyone have alternatives to BooMP3 or wiki upload?


How to Upload MP3 Music Files to Flickr or Picasa Web Albums


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 07 November 2008 07:02 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The problem I'm having is the file is 150 MB and is therefore too big for any uploading service I can find. Does anyone know of free audio editing software I can download to chop the file into smaller parts?
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 07 November 2008 08:45 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does this work?
From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lord Palmerston
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posted 07 November 2008 09:10 AM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah I'm listening to it now.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
madmax
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posted 07 November 2008 10:50 AM      Profile for madmax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now officially official.

quote:
Horvath enters Ontario NDP leadership fight
Updated: Fri Nov. 07 2008 12:17:14 PM

The Canadian Press

HAMILTON — Andrea Horwath has entered the race for the leadership of the provincial New Democrats.

The lone woman running to replace Howard Hampton when he steps down announced her candidacy today in her Hamilton Center riding.

Horwath is running against Peter Tabuns, the former head of Greenpeace Canada, party veteran Gilles Bisson, and former East York mayor Michael Prue.

All four candidates say they will work on rebuilding the party leading up to the next provincial election in 2011.

The candidates say they'll show Ontario voters the NDP can tackle an economic downturn.

Hampton steps down as leader in March after 13 years at the helm



From: Ontario | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
Max Bialystock
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posted 07 November 2008 02:58 PM      Profile for Max Bialystock     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How about a leader with some visibility? I have to log in to rabble to remember the name of the current (and outgoing) invisible ONDP leader.
From: North York | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 07 November 2008 03:27 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Max Bialystock:
How about a leader with some visibility? I have to log in to rabble to remember the name of the current (and outgoing) invisible ONDP leader.

Can't be too much less visible than our 22 percent invisible man at the helm in Toronto. I think voters would replace him if they could figure out what he does at Queen's Park.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
madmax
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posted 08 November 2008 12:37 PM      Profile for madmax   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
DRAGON SLAYER

You read it here. Andrea Horwath slays medieval liberals

quote:
News Canada
Hamilton MPP seeks NDP's top job
By ANTONELLA ARTUSO, QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU CHIEF

Last Updated: 8th November 2008, 3:27am
Hamilton dragonslayer Andrea Horwath has entered the race to lead the Ontario New Democrats.

Horwath, who beat a hand-picked Liberal candidate in a hotly contested by-election that restored official party status to the NDP in 2004, said yesterday she brings a unique voice to the campaign to replace outgoing leader Howard Hampton.



From: Ontario | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged

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