babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » Global Warming: Death in the Deep-Freeze

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Global Warming: Death in the Deep-Freeze
Vansterdam Kid
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5474

posted 04 October 2005 03:36 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is unpleasant:

quote:
Global Warming: Death in the Deep-Freeze
by Kate Ravilious

As global warming melts the world's ice sheets, rising sea levels are not the only danger. Viruses hidden for thousands of years may thaw and escape - and we will have no resistance to them.

Last week, the latest study to track global warming revealed that Alaska's snowless season is lengthening. As the world warms and ice-sheets and glaciers begin to melt, most of us worry about how the earth will respond and what kind of impact climate change will have. Will flooding become a regular feature, or is the land going to become parched? Are hurricanes and typhoons going to spring up in places they have never visited before? Is the rising sea level going to swallow some of the world's most fertile farmland, along with millions of homes?

All of these are valid concerns, but now it turns out that the impact of global warming could be worse than we first imagined. Ice sheets are mostly frozen water, but during the freezing process they can also incorporate organisms such as fungi, bacteria and viruses. Some scientists believe that climate change could unleash ancient illnesses as ice sheets drip away and bacteria and viruses defrost. Illnesses we thought we had eradicated, like polio, could reappear, while common viruses like human influenza could have a devastating effect if melting glaciers release a bygone strain to which we have no resistance.


continued at link...


From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10465

posted 04 October 2005 03:41 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
how likely is it that viruses will be viable after being frozen so long?
From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Raos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5702

posted 04 October 2005 04:08 AM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Very. First of all, viruses aren't alive to begin with, so they don't exactly die easily.

It's a little like comparing a car breaking down due to inclement conditions (the living organism which is unlikely to survive being frozen for a very very long time), as opposed to something like a very sturdy rocking horse (which is the virus, which doesn't take much in the way of complex machinery to function). Yes, some of them are going to break apart and not be viable, but it only takes one to survive and infect a host.


From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
maestro
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7842

posted 04 October 2005 04:48 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Raos:
Very. First of all, viruses aren't alive to begin with, so they don't exactly die easily.

It's a little like comparing a car breaking down due to inclement conditions (the living organism which is unlikely to survive being frozen for a very very long time), as opposed to something like a very sturdy rocking horse (which is the virus, which doesn't take much in the way of complex machinery to function). Yes, some of them are going to break apart and not be viable, but it only takes one to survive and infect a host.


Yes, viruses are very interesting in that way. They are crystalline, and typically inert, except when in contact with some living cells.

So viruses millions of years old could still be infective, and effective.

And we would have no immunity...hey! this sounds like the next Hollywood blockbuster.

Let's hope that's all it ever becomes.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4337

posted 04 October 2005 05:15 AM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe this is too Hollywood, but does anyone get the inkling that those way up in powerful positions are entertaining Malthusian fantasies?

ie, give only lip service to global warming, accumulate wealth with peak oil, build a military machine that will be ready to control the masses...meanwhile, let the masses fend for themselves, deny them hospital care and drugs, let them starve in their locust infested parched fields while the elite lives off greenhouse grown food supplied by expensive desalinated water...etc.

What's it take to make governments listen to the scientists, that is, the scientists not prostituting themselves to business?


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 04 October 2005 07:23 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mimsy:

Maybe this is too Hollywood, but does anyone get the inkling that those way up in powerful positions are entertaining Malthusian fantasies?



Soylent Green is made with... people!!!

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
maestro
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7842

posted 04 October 2005 01:49 PM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I made the Hollywood comment because it ocurred to me what a great movie it would make.

At the same time, it very well could be a serious threat. Viruses can stay dormant for long periods in their crystalline state, and become active when living cells are around.

So I wouldn't characterize this as strictly a Hollywood fantasy.

Just thought I'd clear that up...


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4337

posted 04 October 2005 11:08 PM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
hearya, maestro. Life imitates art. If we don't wake up kinda quick (hope it's not too late already), the future will certainly imitate dystopian sci-fi.
From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
charlieM
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6514

posted 04 October 2005 11:19 PM      Profile for charlieM     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quite possible that im wrong, but have they been melting and freezing consecutively for millions of years, each time releasing "ancient" viruses?
From: hamilton | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4337

posted 05 October 2005 01:20 AM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by charlieM:
quite possible that im wrong, but have they been melting and freezing consecutively for millions of years, each time releasing "ancient" viruses?

would seem to make sense, though I'm no scientist. But with current global warming, the thaw is happening pretty d*** fast.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
maestro
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7842

posted 05 October 2005 05:22 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's ice in the Antartic that's 400,000 years old. Could very well be 400,000 year old viruses released as that melts.
From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Policywonk
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8139

posted 05 October 2005 08:19 PM      Profile for Policywonk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that there are other more likely impacts of global warming that are just as scary if not much scarier.
From: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ron Webb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2256

posted 05 October 2005 08:40 PM      Profile for Ron Webb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Glaciers are not static even in constant climatic conditions. They flow very, very slowly ("glacially") into the ocean just like rivers, while more snow and ice is added at the upper end. So there probably is 400,000 year old ice melting all the time, and always has been.

It's an interesting point though, irrespective of global warming. I wonder how many mysterious new viruses that seem to come out of nowhere are actually incredibly old.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
maestro
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7842

posted 06 October 2005 05:11 AM      Profile for maestro     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
It's an interesting point though, irrespective of global warming. I wonder how many mysterious new viruses that seem to come out of nowhere are actually incredibly old.

A good point, and one that was mentioned in one of the stories I read.

It was pointed out that it was quite possible that viruses from many thousands of years ago could be mixed up with much newer ones, making it difficult if not impossible to know which was which.

Also interesting how viruses end up in the ice at the poles, where there are few hosts. Goes to show how interconnected things are. There really is no place to hide.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4337

posted 10 October 2005 03:44 AM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To make the picture even brighter [sarcasm] , we don't even need viruses to affect humans.

RNA strands called viroids can infect and destroy important plants.


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 10 October 2005 06:06 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not that worried. This is viruses from back when there wasn't much crowding, no packed crowds of domestic animals, and so on and so forth. It's like when Europe met the New World--the diseases mostly went the other way. America didn't have anything all that serious to offer.
Similarly, ancient viruses probably aren't big time nasty. They're from an environment where the tough stuff would have difficulty evolving.

From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
rsfarrell
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7770

posted 10 October 2005 11:16 PM      Profile for rsfarrell        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rufus Polson:
I'm not that worried. This is viruses from back when there wasn't much crowding, no packed crowds of domestic animals, and so on and so forth. It's like when Europe met the New World--the diseases mostly went the other way. America didn't have anything all that serious to offer.
Similarly, ancient viruses probably aren't big time nasty. They're from an environment where the tough stuff would have difficulty evolving.

What makes a virus "tough" in an evolutionary sense is not the same as what makes it deadly. Syphilis, for example, when it first appeared was almost universally fatal -- the ebola of its day. It adapted to civilization by becoming less virilent -- and hence more easily spread.

So "civilized" viruses aren't necessarily worse than "primative" ones. Overall, though, this sounds like a long shot to me. Global warming creates much bigger and more immediate problems than bogeyman germs from the Artic ice.


From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4337

posted 11 October 2005 12:46 AM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Viruses from the deep-freeze can mutate. And no, new viral disease isn't the only thing that global warming endangers us with, just an additional one that compounds the problem.

[ 11 October 2005: Message edited by: mimsy ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca