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Author Topic: Cuba: The only place were communism has succeeded
mr-trudo
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posted 27 February 2003 11:55 PM      Profile for mr-trudo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Correct me if I am wrong, considering there are only 3 real communist countries left on Earth (not including China, they are now more capitalist than communist) North Korea, Vietnam and Cuba. North Korea is still a communist power due to it's military might, total absolute control and isolation from the world. Vietnam is still communist because it's people are happy to have peace after decades of war. In Cuba, despite US sanctions, US plots to overthrow Castro, funding of anti-Castro group and recent economic recession after Soviet aid ended, it reminds as communist as ever. Why?

I think you have to compare Cuba to the rest of Latin America. By Canadian standards, they have no freedom and live in poverty. But, if you look at the United Nations Human Development Index, Cuba has one of the leading standards of living in Latin America. It's health care and education system is first class, better than even in some parts of the U.S. It is the only Latin American country with no people living in garbage dumps, everyone has a home. There is little if not no organized crime or drug trafficing. Though Castro killed thousands to get into power and has thrown many people in jail for anti-Castro views, he is probaly the nicest dicator ever. I have never heard of him executing dissents recently or committing genocide, in fact, he gives humanitary aid to save many time more lives than he could ever kill. Many democratic leaders have done worse things than he has. It is also probably the only totalarian regime that have has public internal debate about how things should change (of course, within the confinds of socialism). Considering the social problem and horrible wars of Latin America, doesn't Cuba show as an example of probably the only example where communism has improved, or at least maintained the lives of people.

Am I wrong? I'd like to hear what other people think.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
clersal
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posted 28 February 2003 12:20 AM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I go along with that. I think we must be very careful of comparing countries. Cuba has come a long way if we compare Cuba now and before Castro.
Somehow MacDonalds seem to be the criteria of an advanced country.
China has joined that clique.

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dave Boaz
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posted 28 February 2003 12:42 AM      Profile for Dave Boaz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Trudo, but at what cost? Sure you are alive but when you are the slave to one man and his cadre of thugs and you are willing to risk near-certain death to escape across 90 miles of sea, is being alive worth it?
From: Washington DC | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
SamL
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posted 28 February 2003 12:44 AM      Profile for SamL     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
McDihearrea (sp? ) is the trademark of countries that have "developed" so much that there is a need for "fast" food.

Save a few minutes getting your food, shave a few years off of your life.


From: Cambridge, MA | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 28 February 2003 12:46 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Have you ever been to Cuba? You might be suprised to learn it's not exactly the prison camp Americans imagine it to be.
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dave Boaz
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posted 28 February 2003 12:51 AM      Profile for Dave Boaz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mycroft. I agree. Cuba isn't bad, if you are not a Cuban. But ther is no freedom there. There is no liberty. Though I am not surprised leftist would support such a regime. I suppose this makes it ok for the Republicans to support Pinochet.
From: Washington DC | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Evil One
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posted 28 February 2003 12:55 AM      Profile for The Evil One     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, Cuba is pure hell compared to the caspitalist paradise of Colombia.
quote:
On Saturday 18 May, a group of more than 100 men , dressed in military uniforms and bearing the distinctive trademarks of the AUC, entered the villages of San Juan Ito and La Congoja in the municipality of Yondo, Antioquia department.

The paramilitaries detained an undetermined number of campesinos and stopped the transit of vehicles on the road which leads from Yondo to this rural area and suspended all telephone services.

Today (21 May) it is known that 15 rural workers have been assassinated and a woman raped, accused of helping the FARC, and the rest of the inhabitants of these villages have been threatened with the same fate if they do not abandon the region in the next 24 hours.


Everyone is free to take a bullet in Colombia


From: Tillsonburg | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 28 February 2003 01:02 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think there needs to be a political revolution in Cuba to replace the bureacracy with a democratically run system but I also think that a lot of the people who leave Cuba do so because of the effect of sanctions on the economy. My understanding is that the standard of living in Cuba is higher than other states in the region.

Yes, Cuba is a politically repressive regime which is why I'd call it "soft Stalinist" and not socialist but is it really worse than Mexico where union organisers and critical journalists have an unfortunate habit of disappearing? True, Cuba does jail political dissidents but is that worse than other countries in the region with a history of death squads and political dissidents being murdered rather than jailed?


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dave Boaz
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posted 28 February 2003 01:08 AM      Profile for Dave Boaz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Latin America has been largely one failure after another and I am quite ashamed to say that my nationis responsible to one degree or anotehr for this. Yet anotehr reason why I say we keep our noses out of other nations business so long as they are not a military threat to us. But iIdo not think that Cuba should be put up as a paragon of Latin American Politics.
From: Washington DC | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mycroft_
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posted 28 February 2003 01:30 AM      Profile for Mycroft_     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have no illusions in Cuba or Castro, I think there needs to be political changes - but I also think Cuba shows how a planned socialised economic system, even a bureaucratic, deformed and undemocratic one, can be superior to the market system. If Cuba's socialised system were democratised, and if the sanctions were lifted, Cuba's standard of living would recover to what it was in the 70s and 80s, one of the highest in Latin America.
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Man With No Name
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posted 04 March 2003 09:55 AM      Profile for Man With No Name     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Cuba as a communist success? If by 'success 'you mean a complete and utter failure, and it's a disgrace that people will vacation there, then yes it's a 'success'.

If Canada didn't let her citizens travel abroad, we would be screaming bloody murder. If Cuba does it, it's considered OK and a 'success'.

Type cuban and political oppression at google. I hope you have time, because it is not a nice place.

In fact, it's too bad the US (and Canada) isn't a little more proactive. Arm the Cuban people, and let them destroy Castro. I'd pay good $$$ for that.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/research/freeworld/2000/countryratings/cuba.htm

Cuba

Polity: Communist one-party Political Rights: 7
Civil Liberties: 7
Status: Not Free
Economy: Statist
Population: 11,200,000
PPP: $3,100
Life Expectancy: 75
Ethnic Groups: Mulatto (51 percent), White (37 percent), Black (11 percent), Chinese (1 percent)
Capital: Havana

Overview

In 1999 repression appeared on the upswing again in Fidel Castro’s Cuba, as a draconian new “anti-subversive” law was promulgated, the small independent press targeted for harassment and harsh prison terms, and more than 40 dissidents detained on the eve of a November summit of Ibero-American leaders in Havana. The world’s longest-ruling tyrant hosted a number of U.S. groups, including the Baltimore Orioles baseball team, and delegations of prominent American businessmen, the latter seeking an end to the U.S. economic embargo of the island in place since 1960. At year-end the fate of a 6-year-old Cuban refugee named Elian Gonzalez created a new and uncertain dynamic in the legal and political relationship between Havana and Washington, D.C.

Cuba achieved independence from Spain in 1898 as a result of the Spanish-American War. The Republic of Cuba was established in 1902, but was under U.S. tutelage under the Platt Amendment until 1934. In 1959 Castro’s July 26th Movement—named after an earlier, failed insurrection—overthrew the dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista, who had ruled for 18 of the previous 25 years.

Since then, Fidel Castro has dominated the Cuban political system, transforming it into a one-party state. Communist structures were institutionalized by the 1976 constitution installed at the first congress of the Cuban Communist Party (PCC). The constitution provides for a national assembly which, in theory, designates a Council of State which in turn appoints a Council of Ministers in consultation with its president, who serves as head of state and chief of government.

In reality, Castro is responsible for every appointment. As president of the Council of Ministers, chairman of the Council of State, commander in chief of the Revolutionary Armed Forces (FAR) and first secretary of the PCC, Castro controls every lever of power in Cuba. The PCC is the only authorized political party, and it controls all governmental entities from the national to the municipal level.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, which subsidized the Cuban economy, Castro has sought Western foreign investment. Most investment has come from Europe and Latin America, but those funds have not made up for the $5 billion in annual Soviet subsidies. The government claims the economy has rebounded in the past three years, but the “special period” austerity program, involving drastic cutbacks in energy consumption and tight rationing of food and consumer items, remains in place.

The legalization of the U.S. dollar since 1993 has heightened social tensions, as the minority with access to dollars from abroad or through the tourist industry has emerged as a new moneyed class and the desperation of the majority without has increased. State salaries have shrunk to $4 or less a month.

The cycles of repression Castro has unleashed with increasing frequency against opponents, meant to keep at bay social forces set into motion by his economic reforms, continued throughout 1997. Stepped-up actions against peaceful dissidents preceded the Fifth Congress of the PCC held in October 1997, as well as elections the same month to the National Assembly of Popular Power. Two small bomb explosions at hotels in Havana on July 13, 1997, also provided a pretext for action against peaceful opposition groups, which Cuban authorities tried to link to terrorist activities.

Neither the Fifth Congress, where one-party rule was reaffirmed, nor the one-party national elections provided any surprises. Castro proudly pointed to a reported 95 percent turnout at the polls; critics noted that non-participation could be construed as dissent—and many people were afraid of the consequences of being so identified.

The year 1997 also saw the remains of the Argentine-born Cuban revolutionary Ernesto “Che” Guevara—eulogized by Castro as an enduring symbol of the socialist “New Man”—repatriated from Bolivia. At the Communist Party congress, Castro alluded to his own mortality and went on to bequeath to the nation his own handpicked successor—his brother, Vice President Raul Castro.

In the aftermath of the visit of Pope John Paul II, January 21-25, 1998, the number of dissidents confirmed to be imprisoned dropped from 1,320 in 1996, to 381 in mid-June, 1998. Part of the decline was due to the release of 140 of 300 prisoners held for political activities or common crimes whose freedom was sought by the pontiff.

In 1999, the brief thaw turned chilly. In February, the government introduced tough legislation against sedition, with a maximum prison sentence of 20 years. It included penalties against unauthorized contacts with the United States and the import or supply of “subversive” materials—including texts on democracy—by news agencies and journalists. In March a court used the new law in sentencing four well-known dissidents to prison terms of up to five years. Castro used the occasion of the Ibero-American summit, which was boycotted by several Latin American leaders, to lash out at Cuba’s small band of vocal dissidents and members of the independent press.


******************************

Real successful.




From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 04 March 2003 07:20 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Type cuban and political oppression at google. I hope you have time, because it is not a nice place.

That will certainly measure how many allegations have been made against Cuba, but not whether they are true or false.

Presumably, typing in "Bush" and "imperialism" will also provide a full plate of allegations, but they can nonetheless be disputed.

Myself, I think Cuba is more successful than some other Latin American countries. For example, mass murder as practiced in Colombia today, and in various other countries over the past decades, has been absent.

I would never defend everything about Cuba. But the Miami-Cuban screed which dominates US debate is also indefensible.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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