I like swear-words though. Sometimes they can be really funny. And often they're quite expressive. If you want to convey something extreme, sometimes extreme words are the only things that feel like they get the point across.

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Originally posted by Michelle:
They're just words.

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As you said, though, they can convey something extreme. That makes them something more or different than other words.

And actually, let me get started a bit on the class issues surrounding swear words. I have heard many people say that when you swear too much, you sound "low class". Which makes me wonder whether objection to swear words is not rooted so much in an aesthetic thing, but in a class thing.

Okay, back to seriousness. That's something that makes me crazy when done seriously - when swear words are asterisked out, such as, "What bulls**t!"

If you're going to use the word, then USE it.

And an interesting observation one of my profs once made about "profane words," which — of course — vary from culture to culture. He pointed out that one can learn a lot about a culture by exactly what sort of word is considered "profane."

For instance (forgive my spelling in advance; I don't speak or read French) he pointed to the preponderance of religion-themed words in Francophone Canada, such as "tabernac" or "sacremonde." Conversely, he thought it was noteworthy that a lot of English — as opposed to simply "Anglophone — curse words involved bodily functions or activities, or body parts: "fuck," "shit," "piss," etc.

Of course, the English language, being the etymological "tart" that it is, cozies up to any old foreign words of filth and readily co-opts them as its own, provided they are accepted by enough of the English-speaking public. But if one is to study purely the "profane" words that spring from English/British tradition, I think that the prof. has a point (about the "bodily functions" thing). It seems to underscore how Ontarians are (traditionally, anyway) more hung up about matters of the body and sex than are Quebecers.

Really, Michelle, I think this topic is worthy of a Canada Council grant and a subsequent Weighty Tome. Babblers might therefore be providing the ideal "intro. page" to such a volume.

Thoughts?

[ 26 April 2004: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

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Originally posted by Michelle:
(This doesn't apply to jokey posts like yours, pax. )

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You're probably right, though, Michelle, that the upwardly mobile bourgeoisie have typically been self-conscious about talking nayce.

I like to imagine how a character might express herself if she'd just banged her thumb with a hammer, had her taxi stolen, or spilled coffee on an important file, etc., depending on who she is. There's no faster way to get characters up and running in a first draft, especially if they're typically masked by stoicism or a keen sense of decorum. A person who doesn't swear when the right buttons are pushed is also interesting--because swearing often takes the place of doing something that could be even more harmful or embarrassing. It functions as a safety valve in the same way a kettle shrieks when the water's boiled. A character who swears a lot, and well (i.e., inventively), is terrific fun.

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A person who doesn't swear when the right buttons are pushed is also interesting--because swearing often takes the place of doing something that could be even more harmful or embarrassing.

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I'm one of those who almost never swears. And I really mean (almost) never.

Fer instance: I was working as a waitress at a place that sold those sizzling fajita platters, and I happened to touch the sizzling part with my thumb as I picked it up to take it out to the table. This was a pretty common occurrence around there, and the things were usually hot enough to melt the zynthetic napkins we were given to use as hot-mitts. Most of the servers swore like truckers at the drop of a hat, never mind when they'd actually burned themselves, but me, I said "Ow! Ow! Ow! That's really hot!!!". And everyone in the kitchen at the time just laughed at me. So evidently, while judicious and inventive use of cuss words can be humourous, so can be the omission of a cuss where one is expected.

But I just never could make a swear sound reasonable coming out of my mouth. I sound crude and ugly when I swear, and that just doesn't really suit me at all. Even when I'm tremendously angry or anxious, I just hate the way the cusswords sound when I say them. And it's always a bit of a shock to my ears to hear one escape my lips.

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Quebec, Ontario, and Manitoba Tenant Help on the Way? Not Really By Michelle (Post # 14)
Fuck you, Meowful. I worked for minimum wage at a bakery for 4 years after I left grade 13 without graduating. I've never been on welfare in my life, although I did go on EI for maternity leave. And even when I worked for minimum wage, I didn't ...

ideas, etc ... Swearing By Hinterland (Post # 23)
I sort of agree with you, Tackaberry, but I have quite a few friends who never swear. They just don't. And they're very trustworthy. But they're not put off by swearing, and in fact, think it's really funny when I swear (...living ...

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After, all, governments are sworn (IN) and then the electorate swears (AT them).

Swearing is what freedom of speech is all about.

Think of it as being immediately expressive in the moment.

"You piss me off, asshole" gets the point across far faster than: "I object to your behaviour because ... But please understand YOU are not a bad person.... and you certainly have the right to your opinion ... and I can see your point of view but I cannot in all conscience agree with it ... and so on and on and on"

Especially when the asshole just stepped on your face trying to get to the ATM before you...

If I'm really angry at someone, it's one of very few possible scenarios. Either it's a friend of mine (or some person I have regular contact with) who's somehow crossed me, or it's someone I don't know and will never see again (or not likely to, anyways), and they're being an asshole in some way or another. In the former scenario, I find a lot of swearing or hurling of invectives is actually quite counter-productive, making the problem worse instead of better. Rather than just get in a screaming match, I usually try to get to the real problem, and talk it out so that people can get back to being civil with one another. In the latter scenario, there's not a whole lot of point in swearing at a person, cuz it's not going to make anything better, and actually has the potential to escalate an already poor situation into one that's much more volatile.

I guess I'm just more interested in diffusing conflict, and saving myself from frustration and wasted energy than I am in proving my linguistic bravado with a string of curses.

I've been trying to figure out inventive ways of expressing disapproval without swearing, though - but I think my batting average on this is less than stellar.

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Originally posted by DrConway:

However, "loutish oaf" can be cooler to say than "arsehole", yes?

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A couple of my favourites.
Blackguard and jackanapes (see definitions below)

1black·guard
Pronunciation: 'bla-g&rd, -"gärd; 'blak-"gärd
Function: noun
1 obsolete : the kitchen servants of a household
2 a : a rude or unscrupulous person b : a person who uses foul or abusive language

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Originally posted by Michelle:
...I was just starting to wonder whether I'd used that word right.

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An example -

"I cannot sanction the use of this axe. The sanctions must be placed on Iraq."

Go here and type "HR3687" in the Bill number section of the seaarch engine.

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Originally posted by 'topherscompy:

in addition to foreign swears, using ordinarily non-swear words in swear-type applications can be as empowering as the standard 'fuck off', yet not so offensive to innocent passers-by who would otherwise be blind sided by the vile shitstorm unleashed by your angered vocal chords....

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Yes, and "hoseclamp" or "nipple" are also satisfying, as well as (to quote Omar Sharif from
the film 'Johnny Dangerously') "farging icehole."

[ 26 April 2004: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Yes, and "hoseclamp" or "nipple" are also satisfying, as well as (to quote Omar Sharif from
the film 'Johnny Dangerously') "farging icehole."

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Bahahahaha! I love that one!

"You stupid corksuckers. You have violated my farging rights."

Say "Whale; oil; beef; hooked" slowly. Say it again, faster. Then faster, running the words to gether.

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Originally posted by Zoot Capri:
I had an acting coach who taught me to speak with a Newfoundland accent like this:

Say "Whale; oil; beef; hooked" slowly. Say it again, faster. Then faster, running the words to gether.

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That's funny. I just met a couple of Newfoundlanders and they are funny too!

However, I have, to date, NEVER sworn in front of my mother. As far as she knows, my mouth is as pure as the driven snow.

[ 29 April 2004: Message edited by: beluga2 ]

Wuh.

It could be used as a completely free-form cuss word, without any requirement for explaination.

"Oh, what a hard day I've had" can be said succinctly as "Wuh"

"Wow, look at that stunningly beautiful woman", also "Wuh!"

"I have just skinned my knuckles while succeeding to shear off the bolt I was trying to remove, and now I will need to extract that in some complicated, difficult way", becomes "Wuh! Wuh! Wuh! ah shit..."

One day we were standing in the driveway talking to some old friend of his, and Duke, Opa's natty old dog came limping over and the friend made some passing comment about him. I said, "yeah, that Duke, he's a real old bastard". The way they both laughed so hard at that was the first real indication to me that I'd said something out of sorts. And then, of course, I got a real kick out of repeating the story to my mom, and my Oma, and whoever would listen, just to see what sorta reaction they'd have.

I still like telling the story.

Grandpa used to use funny cuss words like "Criminently" and "Jee-whillikers-rusalem."