babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » right brain babble   » humanities & science   » It's not just pseudohistorical nonsense, it's a theme park!

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: It's not just pseudohistorical nonsense, it's a theme park!
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 29 October 2003 07:05 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Erich Von Daniken, who claims ancient civilizations were in contact with aliens has just opened a theme park.

"The findings of archaeologists are downplayed at best, and von Däniken admits that he does not think much of their orthodox opinions.

“Archaeology is a conservative science and archaeologists do not ask stupid questions, but Erich von Däniken is not afraid to ask stupid questions,” he said."


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4098

posted 29 October 2003 07:18 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Too right, he ain't.

Oh well, at least a theme park is a better place for his sort of specialized lunacy than is the history section of the library. *shudder*


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 29 October 2003 10:12 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think it's cool! What a great imagination. I think this could fit nicely into the realm of theological speculation, actually. I have a friend who somewhat facetiously believes that the God of the Old Testament is actually a representative from a race of aliens. The reason being that He often speaks of Himself in the plural, talks about how his angels keep watch over the people of the earth, might possibly explain the long life-spans, might possibly explain why God didn't want the angels procreating with the humans, etc.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dogbert
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1201

posted 02 November 2003 12:50 AM      Profile for Dogbert     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Heh... I used to be into this sort of thing when I was a kid. The world was a far less boring back then.
From: Elbonia | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 02 November 2003 02:40 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I remember that Von Daniken's central thesis, the "aliens-made-the pyramids" one, starts with the proposition that it is impossible to conceive that "primitive natives" could have made the Indo-American pyramids.

I stopped right about there.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 02 November 2003 08:41 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some people are just no fun.

Seriously though, I don't like the whole "stupid natives" stereotype either. I haven't read the book you're talking about, but is it possible that the writer was more thinking it was impossible because technology hadn't advanced that far yet due to it being so long ago than because of the "race" of the people who built them? That's what I always thought when I heard the argument that people that long ago couldn't have built the pyramids - that it was the available technology being called into question, not that the builders were Egyptian rather than European.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4098

posted 02 November 2003 08:56 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This very point is made by prominent skeptics. It's always the Pyramids or the Easter Island monuments that had to have been built by aliens - never the Colosseum or the Parthenon. The implication about the "race" of "stupid natives" is pretty clear.

Off on a tangent, did you know that the apartheid government of South Africa suppresed all knowledge of several archaelogical sites? The sophisticated structures there gave the lie to the whole "educated whites bringing civilization to barbarous blacks" mythology.


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 02 November 2003 09:00 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Huh. I didn't know that. I haven't read widely on the subject or anything, just read enough occasional articles to know that this was a theory.

I was under the impression that the pyramids posed a much more complex architectural problem than other structures built at the time. I have no idea what they are, but I could have sworn I Heard Somewhere(tm) that the pyramids were more difficult than other structures because of their shape or something like that.

Anyhow, that was always the impression I had about the subject, but as I said, it's not one I've done any kind of study about, other than listening or reading a bit if something comes my way and gets my attention.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4098

posted 02 November 2003 09:07 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
MTV, of all people, tried to test out this principle of technological sophistication being necessary to the Pyramid's building. Using only the means available to ancient Egyptians (ropes and rollers, mostly), they actually built a mini-Pyramid and filmed the whole process. Very educational.

Myself, I think it's more romantic to contemplate ancient peoples' tireless ingenuity and effort than to think of some outsider just going "Look what I can do with a mechanized crane!" But I'm weird.


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 02 November 2003 09:08 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aw, come on, April. Aliens are COOL.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
April Follies
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4098

posted 02 November 2003 09:10 PM      Profile for April Follies   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'll grant you that. I still live in hope that someday we'll pick up an interstellar signal, and decode it into the equivalent of, "Yoo-hoo, anybody out there?"

Or perhaps it will say, "Damn flood control"...


From: Help, I'm stuck in the USA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tommy_Paine
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 214

posted 03 November 2003 12:05 AM      Profile for Tommy_Paine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
was under the impression that the pyramids posed a much more complex architectural problem than other structures built at the time.

If one takes a good look not just at the Great Pyramid, but of the pyramids that pre-date it's building, one can see a trial and error learning process at work.

Von Daniken and others like to present the Great Pyramid as if it was the first one ever built by the Egyptians.

As far as complexity goes, one just has to look at a four or five year old playing with blocks. It doesn't take them long to discover that a pyramid is a pretty stable arrangement. In fact, I think the angles of the pyramids in Egypt are pretty close to the angle of repose for sand.


From: The Alley, Behind Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 03 November 2003 02:15 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's one where you can see exactly when the "oops" moment happened - but they fixed it.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962

posted 03 November 2003 12:44 PM      Profile for aRoused     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nice photos of the Bent Pyramid Doug, you took the JPEG right out of my mouth.

The pyramids also provide a good counterargument to von Daniken's "aliens told us how" or "aliens did it for us" statements.

If aliens told you how, why is there:

- One pyramid built of superimposed mastaba structures (the Step Pyramid)
- One pyramid whose casing collapsed because it wasn't properly bonded to the inner structure (the collapsed pyramid of Meidum)
- One pyramid where the construction angle had to be altered for stability (the Bent pyramid)

Don't you think if aliens provided the know-how, they wouldn't have made three trial-and-error mistakes?


From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Meowful
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4177

posted 03 November 2003 01:10 PM      Profile for Meowful   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
How 'bout if they (the builders of the stepped and "mistake" pyramids) were just trying to copy the ones there? (I mean the three big ones)

I am of the belief that the pyramids are 10,000 years old, not 4,000 as we are led to believe. Also the Sphynx, origninally had the head of a lion, and has extreme erosion marks from water... This I believe was created during the age of Leo (which was 10,000 years ago). If the Egyptian government would ever let it happen, there is said to be an "empty space" under the Sphynx's paws... but the Egyptians won't let anyone explore under there... I've always wondered why.

Also the Vatican. Under the vatican is a huge library -- imagine the information contained within!! Probably like the Sphynx, it holds the truth and the "powers that be" don't want "us" knowing the truth...


From: British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
worker_drone
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4220

posted 03 November 2003 02:37 PM      Profile for worker_drone        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Don't you think if aliens provided the know-how, they wouldn't have made three trial-and-error mistakes?

Maybe the aliens were using Union labour


From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3052

posted 03 November 2003 03:28 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I have a friend who somewhat facetiously believes that the God of the Old Testament is actually a representative from a race of aliens.
That is quite plausible. If the Greek god Apollo was an Alien being, then surely the O.T. God could have been one as well.

From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 03 November 2003 04:17 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Meowful:

I am of the belief that the pyramids are 10,000 years old, not 4,000 as we are led to believe.

Unlikely. Carbon dating of materials sampled from the pyramid show that the accepted date of construction is off by 400 years at most. See: http://www.archaeology.org/9909/abstracts/pyramids.html
There's also an interesting astronomical case for 2467 BC based on the differing small inaccuracies in how the Giza pyramids are oriented. See here.

[ 03 November 2003: Message edited by: Doug ]


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
ronb
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2116

posted 03 November 2003 04:34 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is a pretty good case for the Sphinx being pre-Egyptian though, if memory serves. Not that it was brought by aliens or anything, just evidence of pre-Egyptian culture.
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 03 November 2003 04:49 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There's an SF series currently running on TV whose premise is based on this sort of Danikenish stuff. Stargate. It has its entertaining moments, but it's gone downhill lately.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Courage
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3980

posted 03 November 2003 05:37 PM      Profile for Courage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy_Paine:
As far as complexity goes, one just has to look at a four or five year old playing with blocks. It doesn't take them long to discover that a pyramid is a pretty stable arrangement. In fact, I think the angles of the pyramids in Egypt are pretty close to the angle of repose for sand.

Perhaps. Though I think you are over-primitivising the constructors without due cause. The other problems that present themselves with the Pyramids come into play with the mathematical sequences which they seem to deliberately edify. The notion that they could be a purposeful materialisation of certain abstract fundemental mathematical truths about the development of shapes in our part of the universe needs to be studied in more depth.


From: Earth | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Snuckles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2764

posted 03 November 2003 07:04 PM      Profile for Snuckles   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm surprised that von Daniken didn't build his theme park in the US, where he could compete directly with Answers in Genesis' creation museum (presently under construction in Kentucky) and 'Dr.' Kent Hovind's Dinosaur Adventure Land in Florida. Not to mention the ICR's museum out in California.

Americans love their pseudoscience and cult archaeology (and probably many Canadians too for that matter)

[ 03 November 2003: Message edited by: Snuckles ]


From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
francis urquhart
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4655

posted 16 November 2003 06:06 PM      Profile for francis urquhart     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The basis of alot of cult-ish reasoning is, literally, paranoia. That they lack a piece of information, the only logical explanation is their own paranoia.

"I can't find my car keys, I thought they were right here. Aliens! It's the only rational explanation! Don't believe me? Then prove to me
that it was NOT aliens who abducted my car keys! Fools! It will be grim vindication for me when our reptilian masters return to reprocess us as pet food. When you see them coming, tell them Draxor the Magnificent got their message and cower at their acknowledgement of my foresight."


From: Here. | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca