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Author Topic: For all P, P a proposition, discuss P from an anti-P point of view
Mandos
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posted 29 March 2006 01:02 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that P, being all propositions, is bad because some of the propositions are mutually contradictory, leading to a system failure.
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 29 March 2006 01:05 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, but what are you going to do 'eh? Our knowledge is limited by our limited senses, and by the categories by which our brains process this information.
From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 29 March 2006 01:18 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Speak for yourself!
From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
thwap
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posted 29 March 2006 01:24 PM      Profile for thwap        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mandos:
Speak for yourself!

But who am I, really?


From: Hamilton | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 29 March 2006 01:26 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tee-hee. He said "P."
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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Babbler # 8881

posted 29 March 2006 01:27 PM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mandos:
I think that P, being all propositions, is bad because some of the propositions are mutually contradictory, leading to a system failure.

Aah, but you see we are designed to have limited senses to prevent exactly that catastrophe.

quote:
Originally posted by Mandos:
Speak for yourself!

So, if you're denying that your knowledge is limited by your limited senses, or if you are denying that you have limited senses, then, you will very soon reach system failure, if you haven't got there already.

And oh yea, E.


From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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posted 29 March 2006 01:29 PM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oooh, thwap, you're online! Call me, please, please, oh pretty please. I don't know your number at the other place.
From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 29 March 2006 07:30 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, I think ephemeral won that one.

:P


From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
rasmus
malcontent
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posted 29 March 2006 07:50 PM      Profile for rasmus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Paraconsistent logics allow P and not P.

In classical logics, the cool thing about P and not P is that anything follows. And I do mean anything.


From: Fortune favours the bold | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
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posted 29 March 2006 08:16 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
P is a figment of your imagination.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 March 2006 09:23 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let us label any arbitary eigenstate |P>.

Anti-|P> presumably means the antisymmetric form, -|P>.

This excludes being able to "see" the universe from a boson's point of view, because anti-|P> would yield |P>, as they are symmetric under inversion.

So, from the point of view of the lonely electron, its antisymmetric partner, |P>, is its spatial brother-in-arms.

I blame my quantum mechanics midterm tomorrow for this attack of geekiness.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 29 March 2006 09:58 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
RR: That's because everything follows from falsity.

I'm unsure whether to include higher order propositions in this discussion. Perhaps if we exhaust this thread using not more than first-order propositions, I'll start a higher-order thread.


From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 29 March 2006 10:51 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perturbatively? (If you've done any math you know what perturbation theory is )
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ephemeral
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posted 29 March 2006 11:04 PM      Profile for ephemeral     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mandos:
Perhaps if we exhaust this thread using not more than first-order propositions, I'll start a higher-order thread.

Why doesn't anybody have negative-order propositions? Are you biased against negatives, Mandos? Hmmm? Are all pro-X'ers anti-negatifs?

As always, E


From: under a bridge with a laptop | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jacob Two-Two
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posted 29 March 2006 11:17 PM      Profile for Jacob Two-Two     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Okay, so if P is all propositions then it is necessarily both P and not P, and as Rasmus said, anything follows from that. Anything at all! So nothing I write can be wrong!

So P, being the party of the first part, is the preposterous proposition of the past participle, partitioning P, the passive pronouncement from P, the pious protest. The positional pendulum of P pertaining to personal parties of the first part, is a priori pedantic, and thus precluded in our proof.

Yeah, I dig this new math.


From: There is but one Gord and Moolah is his profit | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
obscurantist
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posted 29 March 2006 11:32 PM      Profile for obscurantist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Coming soon ... the movie ... based on the best-selling graphic novel ... P for Pendantry.
From: an unweeded garden | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 30 March 2006 01:42 AM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
x
From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 30 March 2006 03:06 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think I have to go P.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willowdale Wizard
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posted 30 March 2006 03:22 AM      Profile for Willowdale Wizard   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
when you're in a club, and it's nearly closing time, what counts as a first-order proposition and what's a second-order proposition?
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Nanuq
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posted 30 March 2006 09:06 AM      Profile for Nanuq   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Nobody propositions me, hence my BWAGA status (sigh).
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
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posted 30 March 2006 01:39 PM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
Perturbatively? (If you've done any math you know what perturbation theory is )


You are without a doubt, babble's master perturbator.

quote:
Originally posted by Yossarian:
Coming soon ... the movie ... based on the best-selling graphic novel ... P for Pendantry.

What's wrong with pendants? I quite like simple jewelry like that.


From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 30 March 2006 05:27 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Yossarian:
Tee-hee. He said "P."
Hey, that intellectual property. You'll be hearing from my solicitor.

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
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posted 04 April 2006 01:46 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jacob Two-Two:
Okay, so if P is all propositions then it is necessarily both P and not P, and as Rasmus said, anything follows from that. Anything at all! So nothing I write can be wrong!

But we're supposed to be discussing from an anti-P point of view. So everything you write must be wrong!
(And everything I write. Including the above)

[ 04 April 2006: Message edited by: Rufus Polson ]


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
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posted 04 April 2006 01:56 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It doesn't have to be wrong. You just have to oppose it.
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Pogo
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posted 04 April 2006 02:44 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
P -> Q

Wait for it.


From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Drinkmore
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posted 04 April 2006 03:07 PM      Profile for Drinkmore     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was propositioned once, now it still hurts when I ...
From: the oyster to the eagle, from the swine to the tiger | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 04 April 2006 07:37 PM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erstwhile:
You are without a doubt, babble's master perturbator.

Good one

[ 04 April 2006: Message edited by: DrConway ]


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boarsbreath
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posted 04 April 2006 08:18 PM      Profile for Boarsbreath   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
P is safe. Our imaginations are figments of reality.

(As Ian Somebody-starts-with-C wrote, chaos guy.)


From: South Seas, ex Montreal | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged

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