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To understand Iraqi motivation you have to compare it to a similar situation with Canada.

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I don't understand. Chretien doesn't murder his political opponents (he just throttles them) or pay compensate terrorists.

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If the US decides that it wants to buy our resources at cost the penalty for not complying being a trade embargo what could we do but refuse?

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We are the US's biggest trading partner. When they screw us, they screw themselves.

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And if the US invaded to unseat a rogue NDP parliamnet in Ottawa what would you do?

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If the US decides that it wants to buy our resources at cost the penalty for not complying being a trade embargo what could we do but refuse?

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Moot point. They will never invade us for resources. If they want them bad enough, they will do the economic equivalent of kicking a guy in the balls. I don't think Canada could stand up to an all-out trade embargo with the USA. Sooner or later we would surrender.

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And if the US invaded to unseat a rogue NDP parliamnet in Ottawa what would you do?

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Depends how rogue it gets. I'd fight against the Americans if its just a bunch of NDP idiots who made an insult towards their administration. But the odds of that scenario are less than zero.

Mind you, if our governement goes way off the deep end and starts doing evil shit like Stalin and Hitler (both of whom got into power as a result of pretending to be socialist at some point) then I would support the American incursion.

[ 20 March 2003: Message edited by: Gir Draxon ]

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Summarizing then you'd fight back. Iraqis will also fight back

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AH, but you did not bother to quote me on this. You see, I said I would fight back only if it were a trivial invasion.

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Curse the NDP for neutering the military, and curse them again for denying me the right to own firearms without huge restrictions.

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Out of all the problems in the world today, those things bother you the most? That's some perspective.
Let's see if I got you right: You want the federal government to build a strong military, and you want the ability to have any gun you want to protect yourself from a tyrannical government and its strong military, who want to take away your guns.

Soldiers need guns they sacrfice their freedom to protect ours. There are people out there the are untolerate of you no matter what and would jeporadize yuour freedom. So not investing in a good strong army would be a nieve thing to do. Education and health care are important and canada has the luxry of devoting more funds to education and health care and all of us who live in canada should be greatful but not investing some money into a good military would be nieve and stupid aside of which there many militarys the canadian being on of them that do more for society then just defending it. Such as rescue operations in Canada and abroad and humnatrian operations. Too bad they forgot the people of Iraq I guess thier to busy with other stuff if that would be canadas excuse in not supporting the states then I'd be behind them a 100%.

And by the way it's funny the similatries in the American, Canadian, Birtish and Eevn Israeli army Ironically, for the last 50 year or so I haven't seen any of them try and conqure any terriotry.

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Out of all the problems in the world today, those things bother you the most? That's some perspective.

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You don't make any sense, I was responding to the unlikely scenario of 1) the NDP in power and 2) the US invading Canada because the NDP is in power and asserting our rights.

The last time I checked military spending and private ownership of firearms are pretty low on the NDP's to-do list.

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Let's see if I got you right: You want the federal government to build a strong military, and you want the ability to have any gun you want to protect yourself from a tyrannical government and its strong military, who want to take away your guns.

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You don't seem to understand; let me spell it out for you. It really is quite simple. Because the NDP would neuter the military and disarm the population, we would be an easy target.

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Got to admit, it has a certain rhythm to it.

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And by the way it's funny the similatries in the American, Canadian, Birtish and Eevn Israeli army Ironically, for the last 50 year or so I haven't seen any of them try and conqure any terriotry.

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Curse the NDP for neutering the military, and curse them again for denying me the right to own firearms without huge restrictions.

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Knock knock...anybody home?????

The military campaign in Iraq is going to result in the same response from those Iraqis inclined to fight but most experts do not agree that it will be a short campaign. It will take years to resolve and cost a fortune.

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Knock knock...anybody home?????

The NDP have never been in office at the federal level. Whatever has been done with regard to firearms legislation and the military was done by the Liberals and Tories.

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Anybody home? Ask yourself that question after you read the first post. The premise behind this thread is 'if the NDP were in federal power'. My contention is, no matter who was in power previous, or for how long, the NDP aren't exactly going to build up the military.

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I don't understand. Chretien doesn't murder his political opponents (he just throttles them) or pay compensate terrorists.

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Curse the NDP for neutering the military, and curse them again for denying me the right to own firearms without huge restrictions.

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And people call lefties naive...

[ 21 March 2003: Message edited by: Andy Social ]

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How the heck would owning firearms do anything about a US invasion? Here's a clue: The Iraqi army has rifles. I bet they even have concealed handguns. But they still won't be able to stop the US.

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I never said it would stop an invasion, rather give the US generals a little something extra to think about. Sort of like anyone who would invade Switzerland should know every home has a semi-automatic rifle and several hand grenades, and a population that is trained and isn't afraid to use them. Think Vietnam. Think a motivated population fighting on their home turf.

Since you are so inquisitive Detective steve, here's another clue: does the term 'war-zone' mean anything to you? The lawlessness surrounding a war-zone? Troops coming to take over your country is one thing; having them come to gang-rape your wife in front you is another. Not to mention the looting, gangs, lack of food etc. Of course, you'd probably let these things happen because of your 'principals'.

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Unless "private ownership of weapons" means tactical nukes and the means to deliver them to a target, private ownership of weapons will do nothing to stop an invasion.

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So you actually believe that the invasion of Iraq is about defending human rights and promoting freedom?

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So you actually believe it's all about oil? I like how Saddam is launching weapons he never said he had. Oh well.

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Why do you assume that the NDP would "neuter" the military?

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Jack Layton has stated while would increase spending slightly, while diverting funds to 'non-offensive' (whatever that means) interests. I think that means better shovels and less guns.

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And do you actually think you could fight off an American invasion with a few privately-owned guns?

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Read my above post.

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And people call lefties naive...

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So you actually believe it's all about oil?

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Jack Layton has stated while would increase spending slightly, while diverting funds to 'non-offensive' (whatever that means) interests. I think that means better shovels and less guns.

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[ 21 March 2003: Message edited by: Andy Social ]

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Imagine the US invades Canada for our Resources - What would YOU do?

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And if the US invaded to unseat a rogue NDP parliamnet in Ottawa what would you do?

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an NDP Parliament in Ottawa is an oxymoron.
The U.S. wouldn't invade, better to stage a bombing in Ottawa, taking out as much bureaucracy as possible blame it on FLQ, Arabs, Hop Headed Welfare "Peace-niks", etc. The ensuing civil war blamed on the left's inactions and bumbling incompetence would cause the rise of a right wing faction all too happy to sell out to the U.S.
But they won't resort to that. Better to punish the shit out of Canada by imposing trade sanction after trade sanction. Bring back the automakers to the U.S., etc. Indirectly causing as much hardship as possible to Canadians, try to create a situation where Canadians will blame their Government.

[ 21 March 2003: Message edited by: Eubie ]

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Summarizing then you'd fight back. Iraqis will also fight back. They will be unimpressed with the hardware and the pyrotechnics.

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Au contraire, Iraqis are surrending in droves(again) even the Republican Guards are trying to make deals to save their skin.

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They might be, but its far to early to tell.

Battle for Iraq Not the Pushover It Appears

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Iraq had made it clear before the shooting started that its elite Republican Guards would be pulled back into towns and cities to draw their opponents into more unpredictable and dangerous urban fighting.

"It doesn't surprise me they are meeting little resistance so far. This is consistent with the Iraqis' assertion they would not fight in the desert but in Baghdad," said Jacques Beltran at the IFRI French Institute for International Relations.

But there have been pockets of resistance already in the south, where Saddam's most ill-prepared troops are ranged with defenses pulverized by months of U.S. and British attacks in the no-fly zone.

While the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division advanced from Kuwait at least 150 km (90 miles) into Iraq on Friday and British commandos took the Faw peninsula on Iraq's southern tip, U.S. Marines met tougher resistance at the port of Umm Qasr.

Reuters correspondent Adrian Croft said the Marine unit to which he is attached was pinned down for two hours just inside Iraq by anti-tank missiles and small arms fire, and only advanced again after calling in British artillery support.

"They have experienced more resistance in the south than they expected," John Rothrock, a retired U.S. airforce colonel who fought in Vietnam, told ARD television's Washington studio. "It has not run as easily as expected."

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Change the economy to local co-ops and barter groups. Convert everything possible to ethane, methane, bio-diesel, wind and solar. Find all the old men and women who remember how things were done before techno-rule and put them in a secret bomb-shelter. Distribute heritage seeds. Print a shitload of pamphlets on organic gardening, stackwall construction and pellet stoves.

None of this would help, of course. There is always something more you have that the invader wants: your land, your daughter, your DNA.

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So you actually believe it's all about oil? I like how Saddam is launching weapons he never said he had. Oh well.

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Oh yes the Scud missle as a weapon of mass destruction. Keep grasping you will reach those straws yet.

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I had to quote that. Truly one for the ages.

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Canada has been undefendable since separation from England; at least undefendable in the immediate sense. We could not stop an invading army. But I don't think that an invader could keep it, either. Our geography is just too big.

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Interesting point... and not out of the realm of possibility. Russia can do it, perhaps so could we.