This one deals particularly with un/employment. The folks over at MRP base much of their economic analysis on a paradigm quite different from orthodox economics. Here is the difference in their own words:

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We believe that Monthly Review has been unique in emphasizing for more than half a century that the real problem to explain in the capitalist economy is periods of rapid growth, and not slow growth or stagnation, which should be seen as its normal tendency. Much of this argument is owed to Paul Sweezy, who wrote as early as 1942 in The Theory of Capitalist Development: “Stagnation of production, in the sense of less-than-capacity utilization of productive resources, is to be regarded as the normal state of affairs under capitalist conditions....If this view is adopted, the whole crisis problem appears in a new light. Emphasis shifts from the question: ‘What brings on crisis and depression?’ to its opposite: ‘What brings on expansion?’” It is this whole altering of the question, as usually considered by economists, that more than anything else has guided MR’s economic investigations over the years

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Doug Henwood's "Left Business Observer"

Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

[ 22 June 2006: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

I believe Joseph Schumpeter has done a good deal to help answer these questions.

The problem for those on the idealistic left, is that, while they don't like slow growth and stagnation for the poverty and dislocation they create, they also don't like expansion for the overuse of resources and the dislocations it causes.

The problem for the idealistic left is that, as we've seen, they don't have any solutions that actually work. Ultimately, they are nothing but a bunch of complainers, gripers and whiners. Not that criticism of the market system isn't valid in itself, and shouldn't be encouraged.

[ 23 June 2006: Message edited by: Adam T ]

In defining the "idealistic left" are you meaning this in a hegelian sense, or are you defining all the left-as-economists as "idealistic" and therefore implying that they all inherently fail (idealistc = airhead)? Have you carefully examined all the alternatives to the market system and determined that they offer little as a replacement/reform?

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The Theory of Capitalist Development appeared in the same year as Schumpeter’s Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy and the two works can be seen as two sides of a complex debate on the future of capitalism and socialism. Schumpeter referred numerous times to Sweezy, and in particular to The Theory of Capitalist Development, in his History of Economic Analysis (1951), where he “strongly recommended” Sweezy’s book, “as an admirable presentation of Marx’s (and most of the neo-Marxists’) economic thought.”

Schumpeter wrote to Dean Paul H. Buck in May 1945 that Sweezy’s The Theory of Capitalist Development was “a masterly exposition of the Marxian system of thought” and that “this task...has been attempted by dozens of economists of all countries [but] has never before been done so well.” Responding to criticisms that Sweezy was a Marxist, Schumpeter wrote to the dean: “Whether we accept Marxian economics or not, it is of sufficient importance in economic thought to justify the task of propounding it from the standpoint of which it was conceived.” ...

One big change was the arrival at Harvard of Joseph Schumpeter, one of the foremost economists of the twentieth century. A conservative economist, Schumpeter nonetheless had enormous respect for the economics of Karl Marx, even going so far—as Sweezy once put it—“to build a structure of thought which was to rival Marx. In other words he took Marx as a model in a way.”2 Schumpeter had a small seminar of around a half-dozen students in which Sweezy took part. Over the years the two became fast, even legendary friends, engaged in continual intellectual discussions and debates, in which other notable figures such as Oskar Lange and Wassily Leontiev and later Paul Samuelson also took part. Sweezy was for two years Schumpeter’s teaching assistant in his graduate course in economic theory. ...Schumpeter was on Sweezy’s dissertation committee.

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In defining the "idealistic left" are you meaning this in a hegelian sense, or are you defining all the left-as-economists as "idealistic" and therefore implying that they all inherently fail (idealistc = airhead)? Have you carefully examined all the alternatives to the market system and determined that they offer little as a replacement/reform?

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Originally posted by deadduck:
Have you carefully examined all the alternatives to the market system and determined that they offer little as a replacement/reform?

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S G: What alternatives?

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Originally posted by Stephen Gordon:

What alternatives? Want to have a go at my beer and pizza problem?

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:

For goodness' sake. The CCPA these days typically produces progressive alternatives to many of the reactionary budgets of provincial and federal governments in Canada. But the most important point is still the terrible failure of the status quo to provide a future for young people, a decent job for everyone who wants one, a peaceful future, and so on. The neoliberal prescriptions for developing countries is also a recipie for unending global inequality like the present.

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Beltov, this is a dumb question, but a sincere one (addressed to you and whoever else on this board who can answer):

Is there actually any literature available which criticizes capitalism, explains the benefits of socialism, etc. -- but (and get this) is readable by real people and non-partisan?

We should be discussing how hundreds of millions of desperate people can have free markets in clean drinking water, education and health care.

Meanwhile in Northern Ontario, debt ridden Northern Breweries is folding up after promising tens of jobs. Apparently the municipal tax breaks and other monetary incentives weren't enough to prop up a bit of enterprising prosperity in a part of Ontario, a province said to be one of the wealthiest regions in the world. Pizza and pop then ?.

[ 23 June 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Is there actually any literature available which criticizes capitalism, explains the benefits of socialism, etc. -- but (and get this) is readable by real people and non-partisan?

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Unionist, I assume you mean by nonpartisan that it also explains the benefits of capitalism and criticizes socialism.

Everything has positives and negatives. The problem with all the shadowboxing here is that the promoters of an alternative to capitalism get to criticize the present system with real world examples while basically getting to make up some idealistic fiction of their preferred alternative.

Of course, this is referred to as 'the grass is always greener...'

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Originally posted by Adam T:

Unionist, I assume you mean by nonpartisan that it also explains the benefits of capitalism and criticizes socialism.

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unionist: Is there actually any literature available which criticizes capitalism, explains the benefits of socialism, etc. -- but (and get this) is readable by real people and non-partisan?

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Such literature has to be partisan for working people if it is advocating working class government (i.e., socialism).

The commies, for example, have an entire program in which they elaborate, in outline, the general course towards a socialist Canada as they understand it. It can be downloaded from their website for free. However, it is clearly premised on a Marxist and class approach to social life that isn't easy to just "dive into". It's still worth a read. But no matter how good their program is they are not mobilizing the numbers and I can't help but think that their high tide mark has passed. If some genuine commies wish to refute that claim, be my guest. The good thing from their point of view is that they are so small that they're not illegal.

I mentioned the social movements and the CCPA on another thread for someone who claimed to be a disgruntled NDPer. Frankly, I put much more stock in the theory and alternatives and policy that comes from social activists, in the trenches, than a lot of work from the "ivory tower".

Studying the experience of other countries, even their failures, is instructive as well. What has been done in other countries? Why were the French, for example, able to defeat the neoliberal policies on employment recently? It's useful to look at the radical tradition in a variety of countries in different circumstances. There is the Soviet and East Bloc experience; the Cuban experience; the non-aligned movement experience; the national liberation movement experience; the experience of the left in conditions of war, invasion, dictatorship, etc. All of this is worthy of careful study.

My own theoretical background is a Marxian socialist one. That tradition can be divided into 3 broad areas: political economy, philosophy, and the strategy and tactics of politics. If you're serious about it, you have to set up a reading program for yourself. A curriculum.

You should always ask yourself, "Why am I studying this? What's the point?" The tradition that I am happy to identify with identifies the relationship between theory and practice and their mutual influence on each other. But changing the world for the better is always going to be more important than models, however perfect, about that world. Vladimir Lenin, at the end of perhaps his most famous book wrote the following:

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This pamphlet was written in August and September, 1917. I had already drawn up the plan for the next, the seventh chapter, on the "Experience of the Russian Revolutions of 1905 and 1917." But, outside of the title, I did not succeed in writing a single line of the chapter; what "interfered" was the political crisis - the eve of the October Revolution of 1917. Such "interference" can only be welcomed. ... it is more pleasant and useful to go through the "experience of the revolution" than to write about it.

State and Revolution, V.I. Lenin

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I.E: "some argue that communism produces more equitable distribution of the basic needs of survival."

So, they didn't go into much detail on how the communist economy worked (although central planning theory is pretty easy to understand), but they did say some positive things about socialism.

I'm sure if you could find advanced economics textbooks written prior to the 1990s you could also find more detailed descriptions of alternatives to both communism and capitalism, i.e particapatory economics (whatever that is in practice). For all I know, some textbooks may still have stuff like that.

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Originally posted by Adam T:
I should say, that is all, except, more or less, the insulting Fidel who actually believes that communist Cuba has a successful economy. Of course, he is also commenting on an idealistic fiction because criticism of his beloved Castro is illegal in Cuba.

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I think you were the one jumping to the conclusiton that because El Salvador and Guatemala have somewhat higher GDP's than Cuba does, they therefore must be better off in Central America. And then I think I said something smart like, why do Salvadoran children have to rummage through landfill sites and human waste to find things to sell for their family's sake ?. And I'm guessing that was about the point you blew a fuse in that thread, Adam. Oh well.

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working class government (i.e., socialism).

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"some argue that communism produces more equitable distribution of the basic needs of survival."

[ 23 June 2006: Message edited by: Adam T ]

All of these are courses taught at UBC:

ECON 312 (3) Political Economy of Capitalism
An intellectual history of the evolution of the capitalist system and its institutions; a selection of defences and criticisms of capitalism and its alternatives in the writings of leading social and political philosophers from the 18th to the 20th centuries.
Prerequisite: All of ECON 101, ECON 102.

ECON 313 (3) Marxist Economics
Marxist critiques of capitalist systems and Marxian alternatives. The origin of exploitation; feudalism and capitalism; exploitation and profits; the morality of exploitation; the emergence of class; historical materialism; Marxist theories of imperialism; and public ownership of the means of production.
Prerequisite: All of ECON 101, ECON 102.

ECON 317 (3) Poverty and Inequality
Economic inequality in Canada and other countries; measurement and causes. Inequality in the distribution of wealth; redistribution of income and wealth; notions of distributive justice.
Prerequisite: All of ECON 101, ECON 102.

ECON 318 (3) History and Philosophy of Economics from Aristotle to Adam Smith
The development of economic thought from Aristotle to Adam Smith, focusing on the conceptual foundations of economics, particularly the problems of value, distribution, and economic growth.
Prerequisite: All of ECON 101, ECON 102.

As I said to Stephen once before, I think the basic idea of free markets is sound as far as creating a society where all class of workers can be satisfied according to their ability and need, but then politics is the other half of the democratic dilema. Economists know how it should work, but then things have a tendency to become corrupted somewhere between theory and implementation.

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Originally posted by Adam T:

and I also said it would be nice if the people of Cuba actually got to choose for themselves which economic system they would prefer to live under.

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Since the experiment in Russian and Eastern Bloc capitalism began with glasnost, life expectancy and infant mortality and other social indicators have suffered disasterous results while the same statistics in Cuba have improved markedly.

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Russia is certainly a mess. Life expectancy though have been increasing in both Hungary and Poland (the only two I looked at) since 1994. Of course, this is based on the official government stats. But, if it's good enough for Cuba, it's certainly good enough for Hungary and Poland.

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Cuban's decided in 1959 that they didn't want to be another banana republic like Haiti and Dominican Republic are today.

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Actually, it was your hero, Fearless Leader, who decided it, not the people of Cuba.

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Nobody had choices in Batista's Cuba, except perhaps organized crime,members of the military and secret police.

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Yes, more of the typical binary thinking we get from the extremes of both the left and the right.

[ 23 June 2006: Message edited by: Adam T ]

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Originally posted by Adam T:
Russia is certainly a mess. Life expectancy though have been increasing in both Hungary and Poland (the only two I looked at) since 1994. Of course, this is based on the official government stats. But, if it's good enough for Cuba, it's certainly good enough for Hungary and Poland.

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Yes, as Uncle Joe once said, you have to break some eggs in order to make an omelette. In this case, millions have died across the former Soviet Union, and poverty increased in Russia 30 fold since the beginning of glasnost. Bulgaria used to provide socialized medicine before introducing free market health care. And what a disaster it has been.

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Actually, it was your hero, Fearless Leader, who decided it, not the people of Cuba.

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The Cuban people have had ample opportunity to overthrow Fidel. Cuban's are not shy about giving military dictators and mafia the heave-ho, you know. The CIA fully believe the Cuban exiles that the people would support the Bay of Pigs invasion. Boyo, did they ever get their signals crossed!.

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Yes, more of the typical binary thinking we get from the extremes of both the left and the right.

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The Cuban people have had ample opportunity to overthrow Fidel. Cuban's are not shy about giving military dictators and mafia the heave-ho, you know.

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what about the mini seed loans given to women in poor villages in countries with small hopes. they did rather well, these groups of women, and [unlike money given to the men ]most of that money seeded education, family health, food production, etc.hmmm

somehow hedge funds and illusionary profits from corporate canabalism just don't seem real or right when you take a close look at the good that these women do with so little money.

and 1 trillion $ in global arms-immagine the green business that could be created,not to mention the fact that the damage that arms create is never factored into their price tags.

and what about full cost accounting---if the price of all products had to reflect the real cost to global society [ie environmental degradation, health costs, pain and suffering, loss of livelihood,etc ]then maybe a market driven system could work with strict regulation so all corporations actually produce something tangible- forget the electronic money that really isn't- forget the megacorp that just grabs the quick,shortterm profit from its prey and then spits the employees and their communities out.
and make it illegal to profit from war while your at it.

i suspect that idealistic/pragmatism would describe this economic system -the market- but with all its warts- with some things[like war and prostitution] completely off limits for business.

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Originally posted by Adam T:

I'm pleased to see you admitted the truth: there are no free elections in Cuba where people can replace their government.

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And what an example we are for Cuba with our fake pluralist democracy in Canada. We don't have 80 and 90 percent voter participation in North American elections as is true of Scandinavia and Europe. And there is a reason for that, Adam. For the past 100 years, Canadian and American mice have had two choices at election time:

1. the black cats,

or their inbred corporate and banking elitist ass kissing cousins who preach socialism to get elected but govern on the right once in power,

2. the white cats

And furthremore, Cuban's weren't very impressed when our feds in Ottawa aiding and abetting the CIA and shadow government's overthrow of a democratically elected leader just 50 miles away in Haiti, Adam.

Haitian's would like very much for their democratically-elected leader to return from forced exile and exercise their free choice, which was stolen from them by resident Dubya, an illegitimate figure head for USian cosmetic government himself. There is a world of difference between textbook democracy and the way it works in the real world, Adam. Do you have any idea of what I'm talking about?. Do you have any idea just how undemocratic U.S. foreign policies have been in affecting chaos, turmoil and violating basic human rights throughout Latin America and Cuba in corrupting democracy and free choice ?.

By advocating for multiparty elections that would undoubtedly result in an oppressive, corrupt and undemocratic plutocracy in Cuba as it is here in North America, you might as well put the question to Cuban's like this:

Little pigs, little pigs, let me come in!!!.

The fact, though, that you are perfectly willing to cast aside democracy, as imperfect as it is, when you see a dictatorship doing things that you like says just about everything that anyone needs to know about you.