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Author Topic: War Crimes
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 12 May 2003 01:11 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
We all know how the USA is trying to capture the leadership of the former Iraqi regime and have them tried for "war crimes."

I do not understand how the USA can get away with this. The USA invaded Iraq in an unprovoked attack, indeed after Iraq had done everything but surrender already in order to appease the demands of the US.

Why is the international community going along with this? German generals were hanged after Nuremberg for what Donald Rumsfeld and Tommy Franks have done, yet the Iraqis are going to be condemned for committing "war crimes"?

From the Judgement at Nuremberg:

quote:
To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.

Perhaps babble's legal minds can help explain this.


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 12 May 2003 02:40 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I do not think that an International Tribunal set up by the United States can have much legitimacy. That is a separate question from whether or not Saddam is himself guilty of crimes against humanity; I think he is.

But I also think that the U.S. war was an aggressive war as defined at Nuremburg. I would add that there is actually a United Nations Convention which sets out the definition of "war of aggression" for the purposes of future prosecutions. I read it closely at the time Bush
was threatening war, and I was convinced that the
Iraq war was illegal.

This was much different from the Yugoslav situation, because a reasonable case could be made that Milosevic, by ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Kosovo was crossing "national" boundaries, if not formal state boundaries.
In other words, the argument "This is only happening inside Yugoslavia" had limited validity for me, given the de facto break-up of the country.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 12 May 2003 03:09 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A small point, perhaps, but it may matter here:

Weren't the only German generals hanged at Nuremberg also Nazi party members and implicated in murderous politics, crimes against humanity, as well as in a war of aggression? I mean, I think of Jodl and Keitel, and especially Goering (in spite of his background), as political figures by wartime, at least as much as they were officers. (And Goering, of course, managed to cheat the hangman.)

The ones who were straight professional soldiers drew only prison terms, no?

So that lets Franks off the hook, eh?


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478

posted 12 May 2003 03:11 PM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
PS: I am still opposed to capital punishment, except in cases of cruelty to animals.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 12 May 2003 03:58 PM      Profile for swallow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The idea of a tribunal on Iraq was around long before the current US musing about the possibility, and it is an idea that comes from the left. Google "indict"(linked many times already) for background. The founder of Indict is pushing for either (1) the US to reconsider the possibilties of going to the International Criminal Court over this sort of issue or (2) an international tribunal on Iraq.
From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 12 May 2003 05:24 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I would have no difficulty supporting an international tribunal which is representative of the international community, and not just the USA and its allies. The ICC makes some sense, though it has a specific start-date; that is, its jurisdiction begins fairly recently. It would not be appropriate to backdate that, because the countries which brought it into being did not contemplate an earlier start date.
From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
nonsuch
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1402

posted 12 May 2003 05:36 PM      Profile for nonsuch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Hasn't the US declared that no American citizen would ever be allowed to go before an international court for war crimes or crimes against humanity?
I don't think they're taking "Judge not, lest ye be judged" very much to heart.

From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eauz
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3057

posted 16 May 2003 03:37 PM      Profile for Eauz   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Everytime I bring up this subject or about Sanctions even, people say "It's the USA, they are the world power". Well, sure if there is an international law broken, it be sent to the Court. But, I donno, I guess if the USA was not a world power, something would be done.

I guess it's like society, if I commit a small to medium level crime, I'll be sent to court, fined and/or jailed, yet a sports player can go and pay off their crimes, and be back for the next game.


From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged

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