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“This is atheism’s moment.” That according to David Steinberger, CEO of Perseus Books LLC, which recently signed Christopher Hitchens to edit a book of atheist readings for publication this fall.

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The New Atheism: A J Chien

There is still a lot of stigma attached to atheism. In the U.S., for example,

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Today, after the Gay Pride movement, 55% of Gallup respondents declare willingness to vote for a homosexual candidate: a lower percentage than those who would vote for a Catholic, African-American, woman, Mormon, or septuagenarian, but higher than the 45% who would vote for an atheist.

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Atheists have a long way to go.

There is an interesting reversal of the Argument by Design in this article. The author re-iterates an argument by Richard Dawkins against it to substantiate an argument that tries to disprove the existence of God:

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So the argument from design fails: true, it’s highly unlikely that organized complexity arose by chance, but it didn’t. This much only shows that God’s existence isn’t proven. But Dawkins aims at more, to prove God’s non-existence, by varying the argument to apply to God. A being capable of making nature must have an organized complexity of its own, and it’s highly unlikely this could have arisen by chance. So God, at least a creative God such as the God of Abraham, probably does not exist. I think Dawkins is right that there’s no good reply to this, because it exposes the double standard that’s essential to all versions of creationism or “intelligent design”: nature must be explained, but God not at all.

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A good summary.

[ 10 September 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

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Originally posted by Fidel:
I'll settle for "probably." It's not absolute but it's good enough. I knew someone would come out with refutable proof at some point. Saved myself $9.95 again. At this rate I'll be financially independent before the singularity happens.

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Here, let me make your journey a short one.

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Dear God,

Please send Cristopher Hitchens to hell. And I could use with a lottery win if you know what I mean.

Your humble servant and new believer.

P.S. This is a little disappointing. I was hoping if not for a burning bush at least an immolated Cheney.

[ 10 September 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

It always amuses me to see how people believe someone with the powers attributed to me would need all the grovelling and worshipping anyway.

GOD
Here, let me make your journey a short one.

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FM and GOD ... That was hilarious!

Thx for the laugh.

I can never figure out why one would go to the trouble of being atheist when it is so much less trouble to just not take a position and not care.

Why oppose the possibility? Frustrated Mess

[ 10 September 2007: Message edited by: saga ]

Is nice to know that He/She's still comfortable dropping by Babble to enlighten and assure us now and then. Sometimes hard to get His/Her sense of humour when reading one of our local translations.

[ 10 September 2007: Message edited by: EriKtheHalfaRed ]

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Pascal's famous wager of faith used similar elements

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Why oppose the possibility? Frustrated Mess

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My objection to God is from a Euro-centric position. I appreciate there are religions and faiths quite different from those of which I have experience or knowledge. I also appreciate there is the concept of spirituality that could embrace any number of philosophies.

But I think the God of Abraham, the God that forms the basis of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is a violent God promoting dangerous beliefs. One of them is infantalisim where humans surrender judgement to the will of God defined by others who may or may not hold ulterior motives.

Part of that belief system is placing the future into the hands of God as though the role we play on earth is inconsequential. It is all God's will. And there is the embracing of ignorance.

A fundamental part of JCI comes from Genesis and God giving man Dominion over all Earth's creatures. As though dad gave junior the car keys without any rules. And so with Dominion humans are granted permission to use and destroy the earth as they see fit and without concern because God will always provide unless he doesn't in which case it is God's will.

I think God is to the body of humanity what smoking is to the bodies of children. It has stunted our growth.

In as much as children must leave the home to begin the journey of adulthood, I think humanity must leave the church and simple answers to begin accepting responsibility for our actions and our future with one another and with the earth.

Perhaps from that a new spirituality will evolve. Perhaps, for some, a new relationship with God will arise.

But I am certain that we cannot and will not change our course until we cast off religions based on superstitions and childish beliefs of super powerful beings that will come to our rescue and save us all just in the nick of time if only we believe or wish upon a star or tap our heels three times.

[ 11 September 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

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Despite this, many economists still think that electricity deregulation will work. A product is a product, they say, and competition always works better than state control.
"I believe in that premise as a matter of religious faith," said Philip J. Romero, dean of the business school at the University of Oregon and one of the architects of California's deregulation plan.
--New York Times, February 4, 2001

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I got the quote from an essay by Thomas Frank, The God That Sucked. A great read. I mention it because I sometimes think that such "articles of faith" of market idolatry are more dangerous than most orthodox religious beliefs. Of course, the two often go together.

[ 11 September 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

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I think God is to the body of humanity what smoking is to the bodies of children. It has stunted our growth.

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:
Thomas Frank, The God That Sucked

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Originally posted by abnormal:

Unfortunately Pascal's wager is fatally flawed.

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[ 11 September 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

I've been out since before high school. A flamboyant atheist.

We're here, we're clear, get used to it.

[ 11 September 2007: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
But I think the God of Abraham, the God that forms the basis of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, is a violent God promoting dangerous beliefs. One of them is infantalisim where humans surrender judgement to the will of God defined by others who may or may not hold ulterior motives.

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The Christian understanding of God is one that has been evolving and changing, and is certainly not cast in stone from any point in time. While having been presented this way, this is by no means the only valid Christian interpretation of God and spiritual life. There are a number of Christian philosophies that see life not as a requirement of being right before an All Powerful God for eternal reward, but that see spiritual life as a journey. We don't know where this journey will lead us, but that's not the point. The point is to walk on this journey with God and to learn and grow as a person along the way, even if we don't know all the answers.

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Originally posted by abnormal:

Unfortunately Pascal's wager is fatally flawed.

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:

I got the quote from an essay by Thomas Frank, The God That Sucked.

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A flamboyant atheist

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Originally posted by 1234567:

Try being a Catholic atheist. I only went to church to eat the eurchurist(sp) for some reason I really liked the taste. Have never been able to find a snack that even comes close to that taste. Soylent Green....hmmmm.

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

My objection to God is from a Euro-centric position. I appreciate there are religions and faiths quite different from those of which I have experience or knowledge. I also appreciate there is the concept of spirituality that could embrace any number of philosophies.
...
In as much as children must leave the home to begin the journey of adulthood, I think humanity must leave the church and simple answers to begin accepting responsibility for our actions and our future with one another and with the earth.

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Ok. I see the difference.

I always distinguish between God and organized religion. I don't think the moneychangers wasted ANY time in co-opting the churches to their purposes at all. Certainly it worked well for them in colonization: Religious zeal harnessed for genocide-for-land campaigns all over the world ... still. (Rwanda, for example.)

Organized religion and 'God' are totally separate things to me. Organized religions are just more corporations, herding the masses in the direction that will put the most money on their pockets.

I may agree with all that you have said about religion, but I am content to let other people make their own decisions about that, so I don't actively oppose religion on principle.

Given a particular reason at a particular time ... like exposing genocide in Canada, for example ... I wouldn't shy away from the churches either.

But people can have whatever God(dess) works for them.

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There is a babbler whom I won't name from Saskatchewan who gets extremely upset when people spoof the Holy Communion, so I'm warning you right now to go snack somewhere else before he starts sniffing around.

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